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Iron Lady of the Fleet (Analyse on PN, Interview and more)

Neptune

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THE IRON LADY OF THE FLEET

Note: This article includes an interview made by the writer

320px-USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg


The Oliver Hazard Perry class is a class of frigates named after the American Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry, the hero of the naval Battle of Lake Erie. Also known as the Perry or FFG-7 class, the warships were designed in the United States in the mid-1970s as general-purpose escort vessels inexpensive enough to be bought in large quantities to replace World War II-era destroyers and 1960s-era Knox class frigates. Intended to protect amphibious landing forces, supply and replenishment groups, and merchant convoys from submarines, they also later were part of battleship-centric surface action groups and aircraft carrier battle groups/ strike groups.

Fifty-five ships were built in the United States: 51 for the United States Navy and four for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). In addition, eight were built in the Republic of China (Taiwan), six in Spain, and two in Australia for their navies. Former U.S. Navy warships of this class have been sold or donated to the navies of Bahrain, Egypt, Poland, Pakistan, and Turkey.

Here's the heart of production line Perrys; known as Combat Management System.

Combat_systems_of_the_FFG-7_class.png


The Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates were designed primarily as anti-aircraft and anti- submarine warfare guided-missile warships intended to provide open-ocean escort of amphibious warfare ships and merchant ship convoys in moderate threat environments in a potential war with the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact countries. They could also provide air defense against 1970s- and 1980s-era aircraft and anti-ship missiles. These warships are equipped to escort and protect aircraft carrier battle groups, amphibious landing groups, underway replenishment groups, and merchant ship convoys. They can conduct independent operations to perform such tasks as surveillance of illegal drug smugglers, maritime interception operations, and exercises with other nations.

The addition of the Naval Tactical Data System, LAMPS (SH-60 Seahawk) helicopters, and the Tactical Towed Array System (TACTAS) gave these warships a combat capability far beyond the original expectations. They are well-suited for the littoral regions and most war-at-sea scenarios.

I this basic information is enough for this writting. Well, Perrys are known more at non-US service rather than USN.

They have been safeguarding American interests for over 35 years and counting. But it helped to US allies more than the US himself.

With its guided missile role and long-hull capable of open-ocean operations, she is the backbone of allied navies frigate fleets.

Today, to keep the Perry legacy as effective as its old good days, it has gone under many upgrade programs. Currently primary contract is given to Lockheed.

Being a cold war-era surface combatant it was designed to operate alone at seas with significant AAW and ASW capabilities. During its years, they were mostly used for monitoring blue waters and show of US deterrance. At modern era at naval world which we count it as post-1990, They've proved their mobility and power at many exercises. Although, they faced some "accidents" that can be considered as scandal such as the USS Liberty incident.

During many NATO missions it was proved that she was older but not weaker;

Operation Sharp Guard which is the naval part of NATO intervention to Yugoslavia. NATO maritime forces mostly consisting by allied and US Perrys, they successfully conducted their embargo missions. Also destroying enemy combatants.

Operation Unified Protector, the NATO intervention to Libya in response of UNSC Resolution. The entire coastlines of Libya were monitored&embargoed by Turkish and US (possibily also Spain) Perrys, while the rest of the fleet was busy with combat operations.

Besides that Operation Ocean Shield and Operation Active Endavior (Article 5 op.) were also the situations were Perrys are used effectively, even now.

At early 2000s, the Primary non-US users of the Iron Lady, Turkey and Australia had started R&D workings to upgrade their ships to modern standards. Australia partnered with Lockheed and generated the sub-class Canberra for RAN. It included the upgrades from radar, missile systems to CMS.

Turkish defence giant ASELSAN had created the GENESIS upgrade for Turkish Perrys. It was including the update of almost the the entire ship. At 2011, Aselsan announced the GENESIS Advent (a.k.a Genesis II). It made the ship to go under a though upgrade program. It was very successful. At mid-2013, Lockheed has recognised GENESIS Advent as official upgrade package for Perry-class frigates.

Royal Australian Navy's Canberra-class ships are equipped with SM-2 Block II/III which makes them an AAW frigate, decreasing ASW capabilities. As for the upgrade program, PN Perrys, PNS Alamgir and future perrys will be equipped with Genesis. So I'll tell you this program.

Here is the Genesis Advent upgraded frigate TCG Göksu (F497).

10795769385_5d663ba81c_b.jpg


TuFFGPerryMOD1B.PNG


Specifications:

Type: Frigate

Displacement: 4,100 long tons (4,166 t) full load

Length: 135.6 m (444 ft 11 in)

Beam: 13.7 m (44 ft 11 in)

Draught: 6.7 m (22 ft 0 in)

Propulsion: 2 × GE LM 2500 gas turbines, 41,000 hp (31 MW) 1 propeller and 2 × bow thrusters

Speed: 30 knots (56 km/h; 35 mph)

Range: 5,000 nmi (9,300 km) at 18 kn (33 km/h)

Complement: 222 (19 officers, 203 men)

Sensors and
processing
systems:

Combat Management
System: GENESIS Advent (Gemi
Entegre Savaş İdare
Sistemi)

Search radar: SMART-S
Mk2

Armament:
• 1 x Mk 15 Phalanx CIWS
• 1 × Oto Melara 76mm DP gun
• 8 × Harpoon SSM
• 32 × SM-1 MR SAM
• 32 × ESSM launched from Mk-41 VLS (4 ESSM missiles per MK-41 cell through the use of MK25 Quadpack canisters, total of 8 cells)

Aircraft
carried:

2 × SH-60R LAMPS III Seahawk or 2 x MH-60R or 2 x AB-212 (ASW/ASuW/EW)

As you see, it shifts our Lady to a far upper level. Today it is mostly and actively used at counter-piracy operations. We will carry on with an interview and the article with it's potentional in PN service.

NOTE: Further info about GENESIS Advent. Released by Aselsan:

* A modern and reliable system

* High performance

* Open architecture

* Capacity of tracking more than 1,000 tactical targets

* Modern digital sensor data fusion

* Automatic threat evaluation

* Weapon engagement opportunities

* (NATO) Link-16/22 system integration

* The addition of an 8-cell Mk-41
VLS for Evolved Sea Sparrow

* The upgrade of the
Mk-92 fire control system by
Lockheed Martin

* The retrofitting of a new advanced SMART-S Mk2 3D air search radar

* The addition of a new long range sonar

Me: Hello sir. Can you introduce yourself to us?

C.A: Hello. My name is C.A. I'm a 1st Lt. in Turkish Naval Forces. I remember we've met with you in Heybeliada during an applied training program. As you are no longer a junior. There's no need for hierarchy. Just call me brother or C........

Me: Alright. Can you tell us the commands you've held, and the int. missions you've attended?

C.A: Since my graduation I've always served at Gabya-class (OHP) frigates. I've served at TCG Gökova and TCG Göksu. Both included overseas deployments. I was in OOS/ TF-508 and CTF-151. First one was CTF-151. And the second one Op. Ocean Shield at TCG Gökova. We were under SNMG-2 command. During that deployment, we attended to Pakistani AMAN'13. It was a great opportunity for us to test and increase our international co-operation. I don't prefer to give my current HQ.

Me: OK. That's great. Can you tell us more about AMAN'13?

C.A: Well, as I said it was a great opportunity for us. We've tested our maritime response capabilities.

Me: Did your ship interacted with Pakistani counterparts or attended any port visits?

C.A: Yeah we did. Actually our ship was given higher priorty by Pakistan for port visits. But appearantly, we were not officially representing Turkey. JFC Naples ordered us not to attend to port visits during the exercise. But most of our ships did after the war-games.

Me: Okay, brother. Can you tell me about your job at AMAN'13 and the atmosphere in there?

C.A: Aha, well. My branch is aviation. I was the CO of ground crew of ship's helicopter. Our ship haven't contributed much. But ship's SAS (EOD/Underwater Demolition) team actively took part at the exercise. My job was to ensure the MH-60 Seahawk was ready 7/24 for the SAS team. The atmosphere? Well, we were very welcomed by our Pakistani counterparts. Honestly, we had expected a warm greeting, but not that much actually. When we anchored at PN base. High ranking PN officials shown great interest to our ship. As you know our Perrys are famous with its combat management system. It took an enjoyable very long time for PN Officers to inspect GENESIS as being PN's decision for its current and future Perrys, That's what we heard from them.

Pakistan's generous offer made us proud of being their friends. After the exercise, our ship had to supply itself as we had been operating at the HOA for over 4 months. PN has provided fresh water, helicopter fuel and food supplies to our ship.

Me: Thats so nice to hear. As a Turkish naval officer with counter-piracy experience. Can you describe us the Pakistani Navy from your view?

C.A: Okay, my first interaction with Pakistani personnel was during my academy years. We had a little group of Pakistani officers getting trained in Tuzla Naval Academy Command. They were already graduated officers. But we were cadets. When our commanders introduced us the foreign personnel in our facilities, That's when I met them. We became good friends. We graduated together.
As far as I know, Pakistan Navy is modernisating its structure. Pakistani surface combatant fleet compromises by small number of ships with F-22P being the backbone. I can say that PN's doctrines are generally focused on encountering the Indian Navy and counter-piracy operations.

Unfortunately my only interaction with PN was in AMAN'13 and my academy years. I can't give much info.

Me: Alright. Thanks for taking your time. We appreciate your informations. Thank you for your service to our country. Good luck.


That was an interview made one month ago. I tried to explain you the current capabilities of Perrys, their history and design, mobility and current situation. Now, my last chapter at this article. PNS Alamgir and the Pakistan Navy itself.

Unfortunately, it didn't took a lot for PNS Alamgir.

In September 2008, the US Congress approved the transfer of the frigate to Pakistan with a delivery date of August 2010. Citing the Foreign Assistance Act and the Arms Export Control Act, Pakistan is considered a "major non-NATO ally", able to receive older unneeded US military equipment. Additionally, the 32- year old frigate will be given a US $65 million refurbishment including anti-submarine capability paid for with foreign military aid provided by the U.S. to friendly countries.
PNS Alamgir will receive a mostly mechanical overhaul, which has to be conducted in the U.S. as part of the deal. All four diesels were removed and overhauled, along with air conditioning units and refrigeration. Fuel oil tanks and voids were cleaned, inspected, repaired and painted. All shafting was removed and renovated. The controllable pitch propeller system was overhauled. Sea valves were removed and either repaired or replaced, and almost every pump was opened and inspected and overhauled as needed. Ventilators and fans went through a similar process of inspection and overhaul. Breakers, NR3 switchboard, windlass, and boat davit all got inspections and overhauls. Completely new equipment includes a new navigation suite and bridge, the composite dome over the fully overhauled AN/ SQS-56 sonar, and a VIP cabin. The crew of PNS Alamgir moved aboard in December 2010, and are being qualified in firefighting and damage control, PMS and 3-M, and trained to U.S. Navy PQS standards. Sea trials were expected in mid-late January 2011, with a goal of sailing PNS Alamgir away on 10 February 2011. On 24 March 2011 it docked in the British North Atlantic territory of Bermuda

On 21 January 2011 the ship was
damaged while testing its
engines, this resulted in heavy
damage to the bow as well as to
the pier. The hull of the ship was
reported to be crumpled.

The Lady couldn't make it to actively serving in PN. the damage at the engines were reported as unrecoverable. But recently, it was reported that Pakistan would aquire 3 Perrys in future. You can find the thread regarding the subject at Pakistan Navy sub-forum.

Pakistan Navy consists by around 70 ships and 40 aircraft. I don't have exact information regarding uncombatant fleet, commonly called auxy fleet by naval people.

It has proven Western missiles such as Harphoon, Exocet. But it also has equipment about to be outdated such as the RIM-66.

But to keep it's force up to modern standards, PN relies on Chinese systems. The F-22P program also includes the integration of Chinese naval platforms. As known, Chinese defence firms has made great progress in naval industry at recent years.

PN Sub-Surface Fleet consists by Agosta-class submarines. It is reported that Pakistan also has AIP capabilities.

And now, the most important part in naval terms (at least in my perspective). Having a small reliable fleet, PN operates highly mobile naval aerial assets.

PN Naval Air Arm operates various types of aircraft. From Dassault Mirage 5 to Chinese Harphin and more. I do believe that the government have kept a strong naval aviation force in order to fill in it's surface fleets lacked points.

As per training, Pakistan sends its squids to naval academies abroad mostly UK, US, Turkey and Indonesia.

If you have a small size fleet. It means you have to train excellent personnel. And PN does it right IMO.

Future of PN:

TF-2000 and Type52 (or 54 if i'm mistaken) class destroyers, Ada-class corvette, Type 214-class submarine are the known platforms that Pakistan had shown interest.

For a better Pakistani Navy:

I believe in that PN seriously lacks in Logistic capabilities. It should expand it's auxy fleet. That should be the highest priorty of future aquisions to PN, at least the second. Also 1 or 2 AAW frigates should be operated. That's all. I'm telling it again, PN should give higher priorty to it's Logistic&Auxy Fleet. The current primary doctrine is to counter Indian aggression which I believe it's given higher priorty rather than national interests. So PN doctrines should give more priorty to national interests rather than encountering the Indian. (of course they should to both. but at least slice it a little)

But those are just my opinions and I just looked at the entire situation from a Turkish perspective. As Pakistan Navy has a budget. And I believe that PN officials have made clear decisions for the benefits of PN.

This article is specially dedicated to worldwide military personnel served at their Navy's Perry-class frigates. Also for the members telling that Perry wasn't a good platform. It's not too old, but old. It's a legend inside every sailor's heart.

640px-thumbnail.jpg
 
. .

lol, you quote me while i am leaving the forum.......

Ok, this would be my last post here, at least for a long while.

OHP is and still is a capable ship, of course only if you put in upgrade with this ship.

Not knowing much of the naval capability, i cannot comment on how and what this OHP is going to be used for, but as far as i can tell, their ASW/AAW capability could take away some load of defenses in coastal region and act as a force multiplier to any nation that operate it.

However, you could always put it to use off shore, but to do that, you will need to have a lot of resource to go with it.

Currently only Australia and Turkey is using them as Blue water portion of the fleet, Taiwan and Netherland and Poland were using them as litterol ship. Pakistan with it only OHP is using them as a capital ship (not Battleship but ship with the highest combat value, aka backbone)

Indeed the hull for OHP is old, the technology is not, i reckon it would be quite capable if you can put Mk41 VLS in it. If you do, it will almost as good as any Destroyer the world is using at this moment. And don't forget since they are old hull, the price is quite cheap to come with.....
 
. .

lol, you quote me while i am leaving the forum.......

Ok, this would be my last post here, at least for a long while.

OHP is and still is a capable ship, of course only if you put in upgrade with this ship.

Not knowing much of the naval capability, i cannot comment on how and what this OHP is going to be used for, but as far as i can tell, their ASW/AAW capability could take away some load of defenses in coastal region and act as a force multiplier to any nation that operate it.

However, you could always put it to use off shore, but to do that, you will need to have a lot of resource to go with it.

Currently only Australia and Turkey is using them as Blue water portion of the fleet, Taiwan and Netherland and Poland were using them as litterol ship. Pakistan with it only OHP is using them as a capital ship (not Battleship but ship with the highest combat value, aka backbone)

Indeed the hull for OHP is old, the technology is not, i reckon it would be quite capable if you can put Mk41 VLS in it. If you do, it will almost as good as any Destroyer the world is using at this moment. And don't forget since they are old hull, the price is quite cheap to come with.....
USN ships lost their Mk13 SAM/AShM launch capability plus its STIR in (iirc) 2003. SM-1 is only supported for foreign navies.

It is still mainstay in Spain's navy (Baleares/Knox-derivatives paid off, F-100 class introduced). Spanish ships have a slightly bigger beam. Other changes, from the basic model, include Meroka replacing Phanlanx and a RAN-12L air search radar to provide low horizon coverage against sea skimmers cueing the Meroka CIWS mount. The Nettunel EW suite (based on the Italian Nettuno built in Spain) replaced the SLQ-32 EW system fitted aboard US ships. The class is currently receiving a mid-life update (MLU), including a new EW suite, improved combat-data system, an upgrade of the Mk92 FCS, new electrical generators, the removal of the SQR-19 TACTASS towed array and habitability improvements. Four ships have already been modernized.

Netherlands has never operated this type of ship (RNthN thusfar uses only domestic naval designs)

Taiwan's Chen Kung has an additional pair of 40mm cannon, one on each flank. They have subsonic HF2 and supersonic HF3 AShM in boxlaunchers atop the superstructure. A second CDS, H930 MCS, was installed in order to control these and the two Bofors 40mm/L70 guns. They do not have Harpoon and SQR-19 Towed Array sonar system. Taiwan is seeking additional 8 (used) Perry class ships to replace its ex-USN Knox frigates. There seems little 'littoral' about its role in ROCN.

Excluding LPD/LHD, It is the capital combattant ship in Australian, Turkish, Spanish navies. Taiwan has 4 ex-USN Kidd class destroyers.

THE IRON LADY OF THE FLEET
Perrys are known more at non-US service rather than USN.

Uhm.... USS STARK? USS Roberts?
(Oliver Hazard Perry
-class frigates made worldwide news twice during the 1980s. Respectively hit by Iraqi launched Exocet missiles and an Iranian mine during the tanker war.)

Thailand may receive Perry's as they are paid off by USN, as well as Taiwan. At some point there was interest in Perry's for Ukraine....
 
Last edited:
.
Fantastic write up @neptune.I give you 10/10 for this write-up.However I request you to add following lines as described below to create smooth tempo between informative paragraphs and interview taken.

* The addition of a new long range sonar.
After that before you represent the interview,add introductory scenario and objective due to which you are taking it and delivering it to readers.:D

-Regards
 
.
lol, you quote me while i am leaving the forum.......

Ok, this would be my last post here, at least for a long while.

OHP is and still is a capable ship, of course only if you put in upgrade with this ship.

Not knowing much of the naval capability, i cannot comment on how and what this OHP is going to be used for, but as far as i can tell, their ASW/AAW capability could take away some load of defenses in coastal region and act as a force multiplier to any nation that operate it.

However, you could always put it to use off shore, but to do that, you will need to have a lot of resource to go with it.

Currently only Australia and Turkey is using them as Blue water portion of the fleet, Taiwan and Netherland and Poland were using them as litterol ship. Pakistan with it only OHP is using them as a capital ship (not Battleship but ship with the highest combat value, aka backbone)

Indeed the hull for OHP is old, the technology is not, i reckon it would be quite capable if you can put Mk41 VLS in it. If you do, it will almost as good as any Destroyer the world is using at this moment. And don't forget since they are old hull, the price is quite cheap to come with.....
PN needs something more formidable/potent as a capital ship.
 
.
USN ships lost their Mk13 SAM/AShM launch capability plus its STIR in (iirc) 2003. SM-1 is only supported for foreign navies.

It is still mainstay in Spain's navy (Baleares/Knox-derivatives paid off, F-100 class introduced). Spanish ships have a slightly bigger beam. Other changes, from the basic model, include Meroka replacing Phanlanx and a RAN-12L air search radar to provide low horizon coverage against sea skimmers cueing the Meroka CIWS mount. The Nettunel EW suite (based on the Italian Nettuno built in Spain) replaced the SLQ-32 EW system fitted aboard US ships. The class is currently receiving a mid-life update (MLU), including a new EW suite, improved combat-data system, an upgrade of the Mk92 FCS, new electrical generators, the removal of the SQR-19 TACTASS towed array and habitability improvements. Four ships have already been modernized.

Netherlands has never operated this type of ship (RNthN thusfar uses only domestic naval designs)

Taiwan's Chen Kung has an additional pair of 40mm cannon, one on each flank. They have subsonic HF2 and supersonic HF3 AShM in boxlaunchers atop the superstructure. A second CDS, H930 MCS, was installed in order to control these and the two Bofors 40mm/L70 guns. They do not have Harpoon and SQR-19 Towed Array sonar system. Taiwan is seeking additional 8 (used) Perry class ships to replace its ex-USN Knox frigates. There seems little 'littoral' about its role in ROCN.

Excluding LPD/LHD, It is the capital combattant ship in Australian, Turkish, Spanish navies. Taiwan has 4 ex-USN Kidd class destroyers.



Uhm.... USS STARK? USS Roberts?
(Oliver Hazard Perry
-class frigates made worldwide news twice during the 1980s. Respectively hit by Iraqi launched Exocet missiles and an Iranian mine during the tanker war.)

Thailand may receive Perry's as they are paid off by USN, as well as Taiwan. At some point there was interest in Perry's for Ukraine....

Is the SAM launcher on our ship yet?
 
.
THE IRON LADY OF THE FLEET

Note: This article includes an interview made by the writer

320px-USS_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_FFG-7.jpg


The Oliver Hazard Perry class is a class of frigates named after the American Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry, the hero of the naval Battle of Lake Erie. Also known as the Perry or FFG-7 class, the warships were designed in the United States in the mid-1970s as general-purpose escort vessels inexpensive enough to be bought in large quantities to replace World War II-era destroyers and 1960s-era Knox class frigates. Intended to protect amphibious landing forces, supply and replenishment groups, and merchant convoys from submarines, they also later were part of battleship-centric surface action groups and aircraft carrier battle groups/ strike groups.

Fifty-five ships were built in the United States: 51 for the United States Navy and four for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). In addition, eight were built in the Republic of China (Taiwan), six in Spain, and two in Australia for their navies. Former U.S. Navy warships of this class have been sold or donated to the navies of Bahrain, Egypt, Poland, Pakistan, and Turkey.

Here's the heart of production line Perrys; known as Combat Management System.

Combat_systems_of_the_FFG-7_class.png


The Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates were designed primarily as anti-aircraft and anti- submarine warfare guided-missile warships intended to provide open-ocean escort of amphibious warfare ships and merchant ship convoys in moderate threat environments in a potential war with the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact countries. They could also provide air defense against 1970s- and 1980s-era aircraft and anti-ship missiles. These warships are equipped to escort and protect aircraft carrier battle groups, amphibious landing groups, underway replenishment groups, and merchant ship convoys. They can conduct independent operations to perform such tasks as surveillance of illegal drug smugglers, maritime interception operations, and exercises with other nations.

The addition of the Naval Tactical Data System, LAMPS (SH-60 Seahawk) helicopters, and the Tactical Towed Array System (TACTAS) gave these warships a combat capability far beyond the original expectations. They are well-suited for the littoral regions and most war-at-sea scenarios.

I this basic information is enough for this writting. Well, Perrys are known more at non-US service rather than USN.

They have been safeguarding American interests for over 35 years and counting. But it helped to US allies more than the US himself.

With its guided missile role and long-hull capable of open-ocean operations, she is the backbone of allied navies frigate fleets.

Today, to keep the Perry legacy as effective as its old good days, it has gone under many upgrade programs. Currently primary contract is given to Lockheed.

Being a cold war-era surface combatant it was designed to operate alone at seas with significant AAW and ASW capabilities. During its years, they were mostly used for monitoring blue waters and show of US deterrance. At modern era at naval world which we count it as post-1990, They've proved their mobility and power at many exercises. Although, they faced some "accidents" that can be considered as scandal such as the USS Liberty incident.

During many NATO missions it was proved that she was older but not weaker;

Operation Sharp Guard which is the naval part of NATO intervention to Yugoslavia. NATO maritime forces mostly consisting by allied and US Perrys, they successfully conducted their embargo missions. Also destroying enemy combatants.

Operation Unified Protector, the NATO intervention to Libya in response of UNSC Resolution. The entire coastlines of Libya were monitored&embargoed by Turkish and US (possibily also Spain) Perrys, while the rest of the fleet was busy with combat operations.

Besides that Operation Ocean Shield and Operation Active Endavior (Article 5 op.) were also the situations were Perrys are used effectively, even now.

At early 2000s, the Primary non-US users of the Iron Lady, Turkey and Australia had started R&D workings to upgrade their ships to modern standards. Australia partnered with Lockheed and generated the sub-class Canberra for RAN. It included the upgrades from radar, missile systems to CMS.

Turkish defence giant ASELSAN had created the GENESIS upgrade for Turkish Perrys. It was including the update of almost the the entire ship. At 2011, Aselsan announced the GENESIS Advent (a.k.a Genesis II). It made the ship to go under a though upgrade program. It was very successful. At mid-2013, Lockheed has recognised GENESIS Advent as official upgrade package for Perry-class frigates.

Royal Australian Navy's Canberra-class ships are equipped with SM-2 Block II/III which makes them an AAW frigate, decreasing ASW capabilities. As for the upgrade program, PN Perrys, PNS Alamgir and future perrys will be equipped with Genesis. So I'll tell you this program.

Here is the Genesis Advent upgraded frigate TCG Göksu (F497).

10795769385_5d663ba81c_b.jpg


TuFFGPerryMOD1B.PNG


Specifications:

Type: Frigate

Displacement: 4,100 long tons (4,166 t) full load

Length: 135.6 m (444 ft 11 in)

Beam: 13.7 m (44 ft 11 in)

Draught: 6.7 m (22 ft 0 in)

Propulsion: 2 × GE LM 2500 gas turbines, 41,000 hp (31 MW) 1 propeller and 2 × bow thrusters

Speed: 30 knots (56 km/h; 35 mph)

Range: 5,000 nmi (9,300 km) at 18 kn (33 km/h)

Complement: 222 (19 officers, 203 men)

Sensors and
processing
systems:

Combat Management
System: GENESIS Advent (Gemi
Entegre Savaş İdare
Sistemi)

Search radar: SMART-S
Mk2

Armament:
• 1 x Mk 15 Phalanx CIWS
• 1 × Oto Melara 76mm DP gun
• 8 × Harpoon SSM
• 32 × SM-1 MR SAM
• 32 × ESSM launched from Mk-41 VLS (4 ESSM missiles per MK-41 cell through the use of MK25 Quadpack canisters, total of 8 cells)

Aircraft
carried:

2 × SH-60R LAMPS III Seahawk or 2 x MH-60R or 2 x AB-212 (ASW/ASuW/EW)

As you see, it shifts our Lady to a far upper level. Today it is mostly and actively used at counter-piracy operations. We will carry on with an interview and the article with it's potentional in PN service.

NOTE: Further info about GENESIS Advent. Released by Aselsan:

* A modern and reliable system

* High performance

* Open architecture

* Capacity of tracking more than 1,000 tactical targets

* Modern digital sensor data fusion

* Automatic threat evaluation

* Weapon engagement opportunities

* (NATO) Link-16/22 system integration

* The addition of an 8-cell Mk-41
VLS for Evolved Sea Sparrow

* The upgrade of the
Mk-92 fire control system by
Lockheed Martin

* The retrofitting of a new advanced SMART-S Mk2 3D air search radar

* The addition of a new long range sonar

Me: Hello sir. Can you introduce yourself to us?

C.A: Hello. My name is C.A. I'm a 1st Lt. in Turkish Naval Forces. I remember we've met with you in Heybeliada during an applied training program. As you are no longer a junior. There's no need for hierarchy. Just call me brother or C........

Me: Alright. Can you tell us the commands you've held, and the int. missions you've attended?

C.A: Since my graduation I've always served at Gabya-class (OHP) frigates. I've served at TCG Gökova and TCG Göksu. Both included overseas deployments. I was in OOS/ TF-508 and CTF-151. First one was CTF-151. And the second one Op. Ocean Shield at TCG Gökova. We were under SNMG-2 command. During that deployment, we attended to Pakistani AMAN'13. It was a great opportunity for us to test and increase our international co-operation. I don't prefer to give my current HQ.

Me: OK. That's great. Can you tell us more about AMAN'13?

C.A: Well, as I said it was a great opportunity for us. We've tested our maritime response capabilities.

Me: Did your ship interacted with Pakistani counterparts or attended any port visits?

C.A: Yeah we did. Actually our ship was given higher priorty by Pakistan for port visits. But appearantly, we were not officially representing Turkey. JFC Naples ordered us not to attend to port visits during the exercise. But most of our ships did after the war-games.

Me: Okay, brother. Can you tell me about your job at AMAN'13 and the atmosphere in there?

C.A: Aha, well. My branch is aviation. I was the CO of ground crew of ship's helicopter. Our ship haven't contributed much. But ship's SAS (EOD/Underwater Demolition) team actively took part at the exercise. My job was to ensure the MH-60 Seahawk was ready 7/24 for the SAS team. The atmosphere? Well, we were very welcomed by our Pakistani counterparts. Honestly, we had expected a warm greeting, but not that much actually. When we anchored at PN base. High ranking PN officials shown great interest to our ship. As you know our Perrys are famous with its combat management system. It took an enjoyable very long time for PN Officers to inspect GENESIS as being PN's decision for its current and future Perrys, That's what we heard from them.

Pakistan's generous offer made us proud of being their friends. After the exercise, our ship had to supply itself as we had been operating at the HOA for over 4 months. PN has provided fresh water, helicopter fuel and food supplies to our ship.

Me: Thats so nice to hear. As a Turkish naval officer with counter-piracy experience. Can you describe us the Pakistani Navy from your view?

C.A: Okay, my first interaction with Pakistani personnel was during my academy years. We had a little group of Pakistani officers getting trained in Tuzla Naval Academy Command. They were already graduated officers. But we were cadets. When our commanders introduced us the foreign personnel in our facilities, That's when I met them. We became good friends. We graduated together.
As far as I know, Pakistan Navy is modernisating its structure. Pakistani surface combatant fleet compromises by small number of ships with F-22P being the backbone. I can say that PN's doctrines are generally focused on encountering the Indian Navy and counter-piracy operations.

Unfortunately my only interaction with PN was in AMAN'13 and my academy years. I can't give much info.

Me: Alright. Thanks for taking your time. We appreciate your informations. Thank you for your service to our country. Good luck.


That was an interview made one month ago. I tried to explain you the current capabilities of Perrys, their history and design, mobility and current situation. Now, my last chapter at this article. PNS Alamgir and the Pakistan Navy itself.

Unfortunately, it didn't took a lot for PNS Alamgir.

In September 2008, the US Congress approved the transfer of the frigate to Pakistan with a delivery date of August 2010. Citing the Foreign Assistance Act and the Arms Export Control Act, Pakistan is considered a "major non-NATO ally", able to receive older unneeded US military equipment. Additionally, the 32- year old frigate will be given a US $65 million refurbishment including anti-submarine capability paid for with foreign military aid provided by the U.S. to friendly countries.
PNS Alamgir will receive a mostly mechanical overhaul, which has to be conducted in the U.S. as part of the deal. All four diesels were removed and overhauled, along with air conditioning units and refrigeration. Fuel oil tanks and voids were cleaned, inspected, repaired and painted. All shafting was removed and renovated. The controllable pitch propeller system was overhauled. Sea valves were removed and either repaired or replaced, and almost every pump was opened and inspected and overhauled as needed. Ventilators and fans went through a similar process of inspection and overhaul. Breakers, NR3 switchboard, windlass, and boat davit all got inspections and overhauls. Completely new equipment includes a new navigation suite and bridge, the composite dome over the fully overhauled AN/ SQS-56 sonar, and a VIP cabin. The crew of PNS Alamgir moved aboard in December 2010, and are being qualified in firefighting and damage control, PMS and 3-M, and trained to U.S. Navy PQS standards. Sea trials were expected in mid-late January 2011, with a goal of sailing PNS Alamgir away on 10 February 2011. On 24 March 2011 it docked in the British North Atlantic territory of Bermuda

On 21 January 2011 the ship was
damaged while testing its
engines, this resulted in heavy
damage to the bow as well as to
the pier. The hull of the ship was
reported to be crumpled.

The Lady couldn't make it to actively serving in PN. the damage at the engines were reported as unrecoverable. But recently, it was reported that Pakistan would aquire 3 Perrys in future. You can find the thread regarding the subject at Pakistan Navy sub-forum.

Pakistan Navy consists by around 70 ships and 40 aircraft. I don't have exact information regarding uncombatant fleet, commonly called auxy fleet by naval people.

It has proven Western missiles such as Harphoon, Exocet. But it also has equipment about to be outdated such as the RIM-66.

But to keep it's force up to modern standards, PN relies on Chinese systems. The F-22P program also includes the integration of Chinese naval platforms. As known, Chinese defence firms has made great progress in naval industry at recent years.

PN Sub-Surface Fleet consists by Agosta-class submarines. It is reported that Pakistan also has AIP capabilities.

And now, the most important part in naval terms (at least in my perspective). Having a small reliable fleet, PN operates highly mobile naval aerial assets.

PN Naval Air Arm operates various types of aircraft. From Dassault Mirage 5 to Chinese Harphin and more. I do believe that the government have kept a strong naval aviation force in order to fill in it's surface fleets lacked points.

As per training, Pakistan sends its squids to naval academies abroad mostly UK, US, Turkey and Indonesia.

If you have a small size fleet. It means you have to train excellent personnel. And PN does it right IMO.

Future of PN:

TF-2000 and Type52 (or 54 if i'm mistaken) class destroyers, Ada-class corvette, Type 214-class submarine are the known platforms that Pakistan had shown interest.

For a better Pakistani Navy:

I believe in that PN seriously lacks in Logistic capabilities. It should expand it's auxy fleet. That should be the highest priorty of future aquisions to PN, at least the second. Also 1 or 2 AAW frigates should be operated. That's all. I'm telling it again, PN should give higher priorty to it's Logistic&Auxy Fleet. The current primary doctrine is to counter Indian aggression which I believe it's given higher priorty rather than national interests. So PN doctrines should give more priorty to national interests rather than encountering the Indian. (of course they should to both. but at least slice it a little)

But those are just my opinions and I just looked at the entire situation from a Turkish perspective. As Pakistan Navy has a budget. And I believe that PN officials have made clear decisions for the benefits of PN.

This article is specially dedicated to worldwide military personnel served at their Navy's Perry-class frigates. Also for the members telling that Perry wasn't a good platform. It's not too old, but old. It's a legend inside every sailor's heart.

640px-thumbnail.jpg

I think PN needs 11 more OHPs with 12++ Sea Hawks. I am sure that after getting it, PN should sell 4 F-22Ps, 2 FACs and 12 Z-9C to BN.
 
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I think PN needs 11 more OHPs with 12++ Sea Hawks. I am sure that after getting it, PN should sell 4 F-22Ps, 2 FACs and 12 Z-9C to BN.

@Neptune

Brilliant write up.

However, in general terms, I continue to be sceptical about the doctrine and the orientation of the Pakistan Navy (partially of the Pakistani Army as well, marginally about the Pakistani Air Force). It doesn't make sense to try and keep up ship for ship, submarine for submarine, plane for plane and so on. That is not going to work; it is already clear. Nothing appears that can be seen as a cold-eyed appraisal of realistic requirements and realistic options, only emotional wish-lists (including, if I remember correctly, one on why Pakistan should have a carrier! ).

Besides commenting on the specifications, what else is one allowed to say in such a charged atmosphere? What is worth saying, because likely to be heard?
 
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@Neptune

Brilliant write up.

However, in general terms, I continue to be sceptical about the doctrine and the orientation of the Pakistan Navy (partially of the Pakistani Army as well, marginally about the Pakistani Air Force). It doesn't make sense to try and keep up ship for ship, submarine for submarine, plane for plane and so on. That is not going to work; it is already clear. Nothing appears that can be seen as a cold-eyed appraisal of realistic requirements and realistic options, only emotional wish-lists (including, if I remember correctly, one on why Pakistan should have a carrier! ).

Besides commenting on the specifications, what else is one allowed to say in such a charged atmosphere? What is worth saying, because likely to be heard?


Hon Joe Shearer,

Your comments are as usual very poignant. However there is no reason to assume that Planners in the PA, PAF and the PN Head Quarters also think in the way posters such as the one you quoted are thinking.

One sees posts discussing acquisition of Aircraft Carriers or Nuclear Submarines etc., without consideration of the monetary & manpower resource constraints and/ or allocation of the resources in the light of the national priorities. We also have political leaders who claimed that they could conquer Red Fort armed with wooden sticks on the force of ‘Passions’ alone.

I am not privy to actual thinking at the General Staff at the GHQ. However I do happen to know a couple of retired Commodores as well as a retired AVM. I have also quite a few relations who are retired Colonels. No professional soldier that I have had a chance to discuss the situation with was a dreamer. Since I don’t know anyone who was in the Intelligence Services, can’t say the same about ISI.

It is ridiculous to assume that planners at the Naval Head Quarters would be aiming for a ship to ship parity with India. To the best of my info the stress is on ‘Minimum Deterrence’.
 
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@Neptune

Brilliant write up.

However, in general terms, I continue to be sceptical about the doctrine and the orientation of the Pakistan Navy (partially of the Pakistani Army as well, marginally about the Pakistani Air Force). It doesn't make sense to try and keep up ship for ship, submarine for submarine, plane for plane and so on. That is not going to work; it is already clear. Nothing appears that can be seen as a cold-eyed appraisal of realistic requirements and realistic options, only emotional wish-lists (including, if I remember correctly, one on why Pakistan should have a carrier! ).

Besides commenting on the specifications, what else is one allowed to say in such a charged atmosphere? What is worth saying, because likely to be heard?

But then Monsieur the wishlists aren't usually generated by those with understanding. The Pakistan Navy faces on big disadvantage as compared to the other services apart from its ranking in priority: Its a Naval Force. Its primary weapon systems are always going to be the costliest as compared to any other service. The cost of a tank for the Army or a Jet for the Air force appals when compared to the cost of a Submarine. Sure, each Submarine or Frigate is much more of a presence and asset as compared to those other assets but this doesnt always go across well to our politicos and planners. Additionally, being subservient to the Army means that the other two branches have to justify their expenditures to the main service.Former PAF Chief Anwar Shamim writes in his book how he has to explain his request for more aircraft to Zia ul Haq on the pretext that they were to be used to support the Army. With a limited budget, the Naval Chief probably has a harder time asking for ships when there are "perfectly good vessels" lying in the harbour that can be fitted with weapons for half the cost instead of a new ship.
 
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But then Monsieur the wishlists aren't usually generated by those with understanding. The Pakistan Navy faces on big disadvantage as compared to the other services apart from its ranking in priority: Its a Naval Force. Its primary weapon systems are always going to be the costliest as compared to any other service. The cost of a tank for the Army or a Jet for the Air force appals when compared to the cost of a Submarine. Sure, each Submarine or Frigate is much more of a presence and asset as compared to those other assets but this doesnt always go across well to our politicos and planners. Additionally, being subservient to the Army means that the other two branches have to justify their expenditures to the main service.Former PAF Chief Anwar Shamim writes in his book how he has to explain his request for more aircraft to Zia ul Haq on the pretext that they were to be used to support the Army. With a limited budget, the Naval Chief probably has a harder time asking for ships when there are "perfectly good vessels" lying in the harbour that can be fitted with weapons for half the cost instead of a new ship.

Very aptly put. The capital cost for any Combat Navy is immense. Modern Frigates and destroyers cost upwards of 500million to 1 billion dollars. Pakistan cannot spend that much on a single vessel. The trick here is to realize that we have no intention or experience to be a blue water navy. With a relatively small coast line and with easy of navigation (no islands etc to safeguard) we can maintain a significant sea denial capability.

For that to happen, PN must increase it's Submarine force. Submarines cost the same as a modern frigate, but one inherent advantage that they have is they are not surface vessels, which means the enemy really needs to consolidate it's resources into hunting submarines that it cannot easily see. If the Submarine has gone down deep, like 200m, even modern MPA have hard time locating and pinpointing submarine locations, unless of course you have the US type Sonar network.

Unable to find submarines, will only frustrate the enemy and keep it guessing, staying away from Pakistan shoreline.

Frigates and Destroyers, however much they might cost, are vulnerable. Imagine you lose a couple of JF-17s in attacking a Frigate, but if even one hit goes through, it will have it's effect--- a half billion dollar ship would be rendered useless.

So i come to second part, PN must develop it's own independent Air Arm. Of course for training and logistics they can get help from the PAF, but the aircraft for Maritime Attack role must be within Navy's domain and not PAF. That way, PAF knows it can fight its own war and Navy can do it's own. I think for starters a squadron of JF-17s should be stationed for Navy. I am sure Navy can find budget to finance and up keep 16-18 JF-17s.
 
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I am sure Navy can find budget to finance and up keep 16-18 JF-17s.

Does it really need to? The Mirage VPAs of the PAF are already dedicated to naval ops and are essentially at the disposal of the Navy to demand use whenever it sees fit. They are usually tasked with minimal ground support tasks and instead are placed for either anti ship missions or strikes at maritime targets. The Navy really does not need to bother with a fighter arm. Similar approaches were used by the Norwegian AF in that a dedicated F-16 squadron armed with Penguin ASMs provided support to their Navy.
 
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Does it really need to? The Mirage VPAs of the PAF are already dedicated to naval ops and are essentially at the disposal of the Navy to demand use whenever it sees fit. They are usually tasked with minimal ground support tasks and instead are placed for either anti ship missions or strikes at maritime targets. The Navy really does not need to bother with a fighter arm. Similar approaches were used by the Norwegian AF in that a dedicated F-16 squadron armed with Penguin ASMs provided support to their Navy.

Well. this then brings us to another topic, that how well is Mirage V compared to JF-17 in maritime attack role, since the C802/803 and CM-400 are both integrated on the JF-17, so JF-17 would obviously take up this role in the future.

I am assuming the ECM and Targeting systems of JF-17 would be better than Mirage Vs.

So does it not make sense to integrate the air arm within the navy, since it is no longer a 'baby' organization and hence grow PN overall in it's responsibilities and scope. This should be a gradual but eventual transition.

Obviously, our main threat for foreseeable future is IN, and while we can no longer do shore bombardments on Indian Coast, we can surely deny them access to a certain safe limit, i.e 300km from Pakistan's coast, which can keep the vital Karachi sea lanes open, for that to happen, Navy must be fully aware of each of it's assets that it can commit into action and thus integrate them in a unified way.

Past experience suggests, that Air support to Navy was either lacking or lack luster at best.

However, this is beyond the topic at hand, the OHPs of navy. Seems like the Iron lady is too lonely at the moment.
 
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