IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Mithridates]

well dehlavieh has greater range i guess and better penetration compared to tow, about sidewinders i guess they are replacing A/B/J wariants with pl-7s which has better off boresight (50 degree). and that thing is hydra launcher pod, they just didn't remove the cap.

 

[Sineva]

Can you elaborate more.. The Cobra gunship carrying TOW-H apparently performed well during the war. Its primary task was to hunt enemy tanks... fire the TOW ..change course while the TSU stays on the target (gunner in front keeps the cross hair on the tank while the helo is maneuvering for the duration of the missile flight). Now it appears that the helo is carrying Dehlavieh missile ..first question is why they changed the missile (Iran makes TOWs in large quantities so why dehlavieh!)...and second question is why they can not boresight. IEI in shiraz must be full of optics experts just look at the product line up they have now.
and the third question ....in the first picture what is that big drum hanging from the pylon to the left of the white missile.

Dehlavieh being laser guided rather than wire guided,is a faster weapon with the missile traveling at around the speed of sound,in addition as a beam rider its also more resistant to countermeasures and the operators dont have to worry about the guidance wires getting snagged or cut on obstacles,plus its range is slightly better and iran also produces a thermobaric warhead equipped version as well.

 

[OldTwilight]

View attachment 554138

I don't know about airframes but , IMO they can change kowsar to on sit fighter but , pilot sit should be on rear sit and with this we would have more space to install bihhbi radar . And reduce fighter lenght as well ...

They could just use one gun and put it above one of air intake and increase nose diameter and change air intake to aomethins like jf-17 block 2

 

[aryobarzan]

Dehlavieh being laser guided rather than wire guided,is a faster weapon with the missile traveling at around the speed of sound,in addition as a beam rider its also more resistant to countermeasures and the operators dont have to worry about the guidance wires getting snagged or cut on obstacles,plus its range is slightly better and iran also produces a thermobaric warhead equipped version as well.

Thanks to both of you for the info .. makes it clear now. Lets just hope they overcome this engine development hurdle which is in the way of Iran having its own designed fixed wing (other than kowsar) and rotary aircraft in various categories. This engine bottleneck is slowing the developments.

 

[Ray_Atek]

Choose best configuration for IRIAF

First one is twin engine with horizontal stablizers
Mid one is twin engine without horizontal stablizers
Right one single engine based on su22 fuslege with delta wings and canards

 

[Mithridates]

your good at this. BTW that edges i marked at image should be parallel to improve stealth characteristics.

guys any idea which missle is this??

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran is not going to waste billions in R&D to build a fighter that will not achieve parity with foreign fighters.

It makes sense for Iran to first secure a SU-30 license production or J-31 license production THEN move to creating its own domestic fighter later down the road.

If you look at China, decades ago they first started with license deals for jet engines and license deals for fighter jets. This allowed them to build the experience, knowledge and infrastructure for a domestic program.

First build a foreign jet and learn and build experience and improve it then move to a completely custom design when you are ready.

So if the decision is $5 Billion for a license production deal of SU-30 or J-31, Iran will take that over building it’s own fighter jet program for $1-2 Billion. One gives you certainly of the end result, while the other can lead to cost overruns and bottleneck issues and a plane that never lives up to expectations.

At this point I believe any domestic fighter jet is unlikely to happen till 2030’s possibly even longer. I am more pessimistic on Iran’s ability revamping the Air Force.

 

[Ray_Atek]

View attachment 554596
your good at this. BTW that edges i marked at image should be parallel to improve stealth characteristics.

View attachment 554597
guys any idea which missle is this??

This type has no horizontal stablizers and only v-type vertical stablizers.

Iran is not going to waste billions in R&D to build a fighter that will not achieve parity with foreign fighters.

It makes sense for Iran to first secure a SU-30 license production or J-31 license production THEN move to creating its own domestic fighter later down the road.

If you look at China, decades ago they first started with license deals for jet engines and license deals for fighter jets. This allowed them to build the experience, knowledge and infrastructure for a domestic program.

First build a foreign jet and learn and build experience and improve it then move to a completely custom design when you are ready.

So if the decision is $5 Billion for a license production deal of SU-30 or J-31, Iran will take that over building it’s own fighter jet program for $1-2 Billion. One gives you certainly of the end result, while the other can lead to cost overruns and bottleneck issues and a plane that never lives up to expectations.

At this point I believe any domestic fighter jet is unlikely to happen till 2030’s possibly even longer. I am more pessimistic on Iran’s ability revamping the Air Force.

Russia and China would give any fighter production linelicense to Iran?

 

[Mithridates]

guys i'm sure you heard of the israeli new missile named "rampage". they basically changed an EXTRA artillery rocket to an air launched missile. we have similar rocket too, the fajr 5c. is there any possibility to make something like rampage out of fajr5??
EXTRA rocket:

Rampage missile:

fajr5C:

imagine fajr rockets loaded on an f-4 with infrared seeker for it's terminal guidance with possible mach 3-4 speed and 75-90 km range, it would be an excellent weapon to hit warships or building if you add man in loop capability to it.
i guess f-4 could carry up to 4 fajr rockets:

View attachment 554596
your good at this. BTW that edges i marked at image should be parallel to improve stealth characteristics.

View attachment 554597
guys any idea which missle is this??

AGM-78 missile

 

[TheImmortal]

This type has no horizontal stablizers and only v-type vertical stablizers.


Russia and China would give any fighter production linelicense to Iran?

Didn’t Russia offer Iran SU-27 when they asked for SU-30?

China is more likely to budge on production line license as its J-31 has few buyers (most countries buy western fighters or if they aren’t western allies then they buy Russian). So China has an incentive to secure a large arms deal in this field. Now it might not be be production line of 5th gen J-31, but possibly a 4+ gen fighter and an order of J-31.

Nonethelss Iran simply doesn’t have the capability to build fighter jets in large numbers nor will they risk doing so until they have a solid foundation to do so. It’s like telling Iran in 1980’s to not buy SCUDS but instead go and build Emad Missile on their own.

You have to first walk before you run.

Iran’s Air Force is good at keeping planes flying and building small numbers of F-5. But that’s a tall leap from building an F-16 equivalent. The industry is simply not there nor is the production line or the political willpower.

For reference Nazi Germany had a military budget equivalent to ~72 Billion euro in today’s dollars or 25% of GDP in 1939, by end of war it was ~304 Billion euro or 75% of GDP.

So consider Iran today has a military budget of 15-20 Billion of which probably 75% goes to IRGC. You are asking the Air Force to turn water not into wine, but into gold.

 

[TheImmortal]

I think it is not only fighter jets, but China also went for Tot of air defence missiles, and many more things.

But Iran was not able to buy them, and thus compelled to make it's own projects of air defence systems like Bavar, tanks and others, and it successfully did that.

Iran has got good experience from the assembly line of Kowsar. And there were Shafaqh and many other projects too.

Also drones are giving Iran a lot of experience in case of many sub systems.

Nearly everything Iran makes is a reverse engineered system it already had in its possession.

Iran’s recent drone program came directly from crashed and captured US drones inside Iran. Prior to this Iran’s most advanced drone was Mohajer.

Bavar was a major national effort that came after experience (foundation) was set by previous radars and air defense systems (Talash, 3rd Khordad, etc).

Furthermore, Iran’s tank program is much like the Kowsar. Zulfighar exists in handful of prototypes and Karrar still hasn’t been mass produced 2 years after being unveiled.

Nonetheless comparing building a tank to a fighter jet is not even a comparison.

I am inclined to believe Iran is going NO WHERE in the field of Air Force. It’s efforts over last 20 years have shown me plenty. We will see what comes in the coming years, but I’m setting my expectations very low. They once were high, but I finally saw the writing on the wall.

 

[OldTwilight]

Didn’t Russia offer Iran SU-27 when they asked for SU-30?

China is more likely to budge on production line license as its J-31 has few buyers (most countries buy western fighters or if they aren’t western allies then they buy Russian). So China has an incentive to secure a large arms deal in this field. Now it might not be be production line of 5th gen J-31, but possibly a 4+ gen fighter and an order of J-31.

Nonethelss Iran simply doesn’t have the capability to build fighter jets in large numbers nor will they risk doing so until they have a solid foundation to do so. It’s like telling Iran in 1980’s to not buy SCUDS but instead go and build Emad Missile on their own.

You have to first walk before you run.

Iran’s Air Force is good at keeping planes flying and building small numbers of F-5. But that’s a tall leap from building an F-16 equivalent. The industry is simply not there nor is the production line or the political willpower.

For reference Nazi Germany had a military budget equivalent to ~72 Billion euro in today’s dollars or 25% of GDP in 1939, by end of war it was ~304 Billion euro or 75% of GDP.

So consider Iran today has a military budget of 15-20 Billion of which probably 75% goes to IRGC. You are asking the Air Force to turn water not into wine, but into gold.

Why Russia should agree with such deal !?

They won't agree to sell su-30 to Iran in first place and you ask for Co prudcing it ?!

They won't agree to transfer of tech without major deal ( at least 200 air craft ) and they transfer technology of critical parts like engine , radar and etc...

 

[Ray_Atek]

Iran should feel air power as hardly needed item for power gaining in region firstly, to start it's homemade fighter project.
After that we can see the missile's power more efficiently.

 

[gambit]

Iran is not going to waste billions in R&D to build a fighter that will not achieve parity with foreign fighters.

It makes sense for Iran to first secure a SU-30 license production or J-31 license production THEN move to creating its own domestic fighter later down the road.

If you look at China, decades ago they first started with license deals for jet engines and license deals for fighter jets. This allowed them to build the experience, knowledge and infrastructure for a domestic program.

First build a foreign jet and learn and build experience and improve it then move to a completely custom design when you are ready.

So if the decision is $5 Billion for a license production deal of SU-30 or J-31, Iran will take that over building it’s own fighter jet program for $1-2 Billion. One gives you certainly of the end result, while the other can lead to cost overruns and bottleneck issues and a plane that never lives up to expectations.

At this point I believe any domestic fighter jet is unlikely to happen till 2030’s possibly even longer. I am more pessimistic on Iran’s ability revamping the Air Force.

There are serious issues with your argument. On the surface, it seems reasonable enough, but the Devil lives in the details, smart fella that he is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_States_fighter_aircraft_1950–1959

The 1950 decade is a good starting point.

When an aircraft is designed, it contains essentially the most FUNCTIONAL pieces of technology that a country have. Not imported, meaning contracted out, but the technology that the country can sustain.

For example...You cannot have the hydraulics technology of 3000 psi without the supporting technology of petroleum, metallurgy, electronics, etc...etc...

You can buy the equipment that have hydraulics of 3000 psi, but you cannot maintain it yourself.

With the 1950s, there was virtually an explosion of fighter designs. Each design feature a prominent aerodynamic component like the unique delta wing of the F-102 and F-106, or the rocket like aerodynamics of the F-104, or the different intake locations of the F-4 and the F-8. We can assume that each design is essentially a production study of aerodynamics and full functionalities of the systems in each design. The 1950s was a crucial era in combat aircraft development.

With the 1960s and later, each decade produced considerably less designs but each design is more sophisticated in everything, from aerodynamics to electronics that produced fighters that are more versatile and higher lethality. A later design may not have the same capabilities as the older design, but would still be better in operation. For example...The F-16's top speed is lower than the F-4's, but overall, the F-16 is a much better platform.

The point here is that Iran MUST spend billions in R/D no matter what. Iran must explore her current technology foundation and develop an R/D base even just to maintain licensed imported fighters. Only from that R/D base can Iran gain experience in experimentation and exploration into newer designs.

 

[sahureka2]

It is legitimate to want this or that aircraft of 4 + or 5 generation, even more legitimate to discuss what would be possible for Iran, but at the present time, except for surprises, the only opportunity to have new combat aircraft is thanks to the codification almost total of the F-5 and its engine and with the implementation of new systems and radar.
Waiting for a last-generation foreign aircraft to be sold to Iran, or for a latest-generation Iranian airplane to fly ready to pass years.
Therefore the only current alternative is to continue with the Kowsar and its Owj engines, and from these extrapolate extra performing versions.
Without Kowsar, within 10 years Iran would risk remaining without air force