Iranian Protests

[TruthHurtz]

Hey, were the protestors against the Shah that came out freaks too? How was that protest okay and not this. Ultimately the difference then was the compassionate of the Iranian army who decided not to shoot for the Shah . Here the Govt has no qualms about shooting.

Had Iran not had its 1979 occur this way (via protests against the regime's rpactices) , your point may make some sense.

Don't mine my words, I am referring to the groups that would tear Iran apart if they came to power, separatists, MEK etc. I didn't make a judgement about 1979, it was very messy, leading to nationwide purges of the military and political class, international isolation and ultimately a devastating war with Iraq. Many of the same people who came out to protest against the Shah are currently in the west demanding another one because it didn't go their way the first time. My point is that Iranians should avoid repeating the same chain of events as while the first time they attained freedom from foreign meddling, the next time they will become slaves to it, and the sacrifice of all those who gave their lives will be in vain. Not fun, be careful what you wish for and seek internal reforms, Iran is not North Korea, how the country prosecuted things like drug offenses 20 years ago is quite different now, change is possible and has happened. People in the clerical and political class won't live forever and new, younger faces will come through who will be open to new ideas. Iran is a revolutionary state and should remain as such, it sets an example for others that slavery to the unipolar Zio-American empire is a choice. And Iranians have been at the tip of the spear since the revolution,

I propose that Iran relax hijab laws and ban gender transition surgeries (disgusting wtf Iran)

 

[Hack-Hook]

Did you read what I was responding to? A suggestion that she was "tortured and killed". And guess what, there's more than a simple nuance between that and the organizational shortcomings you're describing - it's like night and day.

There are plenty such imperfections in terms of training across the developing world, and Iran is actually faring better than most in this regard. Even developed countries aren't entirely spared. Nor are such issues confined to law enforcement, they're affecting every sector of activity.

i comment on police is blame less

Wrong, the rioters who caused these disturbances had mobilized under the false pretense that she had been killed intentionally. To any rational person, the findings of the legal medical report will never offer reason enough for violent upheaval.

if that context and pretense, have not been handed to them over golden tray , it would not have happened.
the fact that people come out even with weak and fake reasons show the problem and dissatisfaction that must be solved if Islamic republic is to survive . as i said the distance between uprising between each one is being shortened . . just say between 1342 to 1356 also there was uprising , but limited , in fact more than limited than current one , and then suddenly become 56-57 which you knew what have happened.

 

[Hack-Hook]

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[11] https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1581204583208038400?s=20&t=MydoqxEA...
[12]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580986579417698305

[13]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1581033323819724802

[14]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1581002798954872832

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Seriously smell like communist separatist groups , and MKO .
Promoting feudalism and weakening central government and as a result open the way for separatism

​

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[11] https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1581204583208038400?s=20&t=MydoqxEA...
[12]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580986579417698305

[13]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1581033323819724802

[14]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1581002798954872832

​

Seriously smell like communist separatist groups , and MKO .
Promoting feudalism and weakening central government and as a result open the way for separatism

 

[SalarHaqq]

i comment on police is blame less

Where did I make that statement? If this is what you want to comment, do not quote me. Otherwise you'll be seen as calling into question the fact that Amini wasn't killed by law enforcement, contrary to what western-controlled mainstream media and anti-IR opposition grouplets had been trying to suggest.

There is blame and blame. Death of an arrested person due to lacking medical expertise on the part of law enforcement agents on the one hand, and death as a result of beatings or worse, torture on the other hand, are two completely different sets of issues - both on the legal and moral levels.

Mahsa Amini was never tortured, nor did police violence cause her to pass away. There's a huge difference here which needs to be highlighted in response to user OneNation's false assertion.

if that context and pretense, have not been handed to them over golden tray , it would not have happened.

No. A mentally stable person will not participate in a riot following an incident brought about by inadequate training or medical error.

The reason those rioters committed their destructive actions, is because they were made to believe by enemy propaganda that Mahsa Amini had been tortured and killed by law enforcement. Which turned out to be a blatant lie.

As we can see in this very forum, there still are people who believe the disinformation. Hence the importance and urgency to set the facts straight.

Moreover, the persistence of a certain amount of unintentional medical errors is inevitable, not just in other institutions but among medical personnel itself, no matter how well it is trained, because humans are susceptible to making mistakes. Suffice to look at how many are passing away because of treatment errors by medics including in developed countries. Absolute and total perfection in this regard is an illusory aim to pursue.

the fact that people come out even with weak and fake reasons show the problem and dissatisfaction that must be solved if Islamic republic is to survive . as i said the distance between uprising between each one is being shortened . . just say between 1342 to 1356 also there was uprising , but limited , in fact more than limited than current one , and then suddenly become 56-57 which you knew what have happened.

Riots had started weeks before the legal medical team could work on and publish its report.

In the minds of rioters, there was a strong and valid reason to act, namely the false assumption that Mahsa Amini had been tortured and/or killed by law enforcement, false assumption peddled to them by the massive propaganda apparatus of Iran's existential foreign enemies and exiled opposition funded by those same enemy states.

Dissatisfaction is a subjective sentiment, and in Iran's case it is being massively amplified by the biggest and most intensive propaganda campaign in human history.

 

[shadihassan28]

Where did I make that statement? If this is what you want to comment, do not quote me. Otherwise you'll be seen as calling into question the fact that Amini wasn't killed by law enforcement, contrary to what western-controlled mainstream media and anti-IR opposition grouplets had been trying to suggest.

There is blame and blame. Death of an arrested person due to lacking medical expertise on the part of law enforcement agents on the one hand, and death as a result of beatings or worse, torture on the other hand, are two completely different sets of issues - both on the legal and moral levels.

Mahsa Amini was never tortured, nor did police violence cause her to pass away. There's a huge difference here which needs to be highlighted in response to user OneNation's false assertion.



No. A mentally stable person will not participate in a riot following an incident brought about by inadequate training or medical error.

The reason those rioters committed their destructive actions, is because they were made to believe by enemy propaganda that Mahsa Amini had been tortured and killed by law enforcement. Which turned out to be a blatant lie.

As we can see in this very forum, there still are people who believe the disinformation. Hence the importance and urgency to set the facts straight.

Moreover, the persistence of a certain amount of unintentional medical errors is inevitable, not just in other institutions but among medical personnel itself, no matter how well it is trained, because humans are susceptible to making mistakes. Suffice to look at how many are passing away because of treatment errors by medics including in developed countries. Absolute and total perfection in this regard is an illusory aim to pursue.



Riots had started weeks before the legal medical team could work on and publish its report.

In the minds of rioters, there was a strong and valid reason to act, namely the false assumption that Mahsa Amini had been tortured and/or killed by law enforcement, false assumption peddled to them by the massive propaganda apparatus of Iran's existential foreign enemies and exiled opposition funded by those same enemy states.

Dissatisfaction is a subjective sentiment, and in Iran's case it is being massively amplified by the biggest and most intensive propaganda campaign in human history.

I don’t think she was tortured either, torture implies that these morality police actually did horrific things, honestly we are never going to know what happened, because people are going to believe whatever they believe. maybe someone hit her, who knows, but I think whatever did or didn’t happen was accidental not a bunch of police kicking her or punching her, maybe she did have a medical issue maybe it exasperated from the situation only Allah knows right now, I don’t think she was killed intentionally I just think idiots handled everything from picking her up, instead of just telling her to step into the dark tinted van to fix her hijab and than say have a good day.to her being emotional stressed about the situation but I think those paramedics really tried to help her. I just wanted to add this those cctv might or might not have been edited but I can tell you this, you saw one scared and emotional girl, so maybe she died of fright is that much better.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Seems like Parsipride has assumed his role as the resident anti-Iran agitator on PDF. Resorting to posting Saudi/ZIonist/US funded sources without context, these are the same sources that claim that Mahsa Amini was tortured to death even though we've had evidence to the contrary for about a month now.

Protestors =/= Rioters/Vandals/Saboteurs

People started peaceful protest but were beaten, tasered, and tear gas thrown at them. Also the government made it super clear that they won't budge on hejab. They even compared asking for no hejab to wanting to be nude on streets. they killed 25 kids under 18 (some by direct gun, some by being beaten to death), I mean even Israel is not as brutal as this evil regime is.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Seems 70s Iran will be back soon ... @Imran Khan ...lolzz

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I don’t think she was tortured either, torture implies that these morality police actually did horrific things, honestly we are never going to know what happened, because people are going to believe whatever they believe. maybe someone hit her, who knows, but I think whatever did or didn’t happen was accidental not a bunch of police kicking her or punching her, maybe she did have a medical issue maybe it exasperated from the situation only Allah knows right now, I don’t think she killed intentionally I just think idiots handled everything from picking her up, instead of just telling her to step into the dark tinted van to fix her hijab, to her being emotional stressed but I think those paramedics really tried to help her. I just wanted to add this those cctv might or might not have been but I can tell you this you saw one scared and emotional girl, so maybe she died of fright is that much better.

The fact is that she was healthy, getting out of subway. Next we know morality police who by the way is famous for beating people and forcefully pushing them into a van got her and police is refusing to release the video of pushing her into the van, despite having it. Next we know she is dead. Regardless of any justifications, she was murdered.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Mahsa Amini was never tortured, nor did police violence cause her to pass away. There's a huge difference here which needs to be highlighted in response to user OneNation's false assertion.

you see till last year if an official , didn't do any crime but also did a bad job on what he must do . it was not a criminal act and the guy could not be tried in a court for not doing what he must have done.
since last year the situation changed , as we didn't lack such useless official that let golden opportunities pass in last 45 years and consequently harmed the country as general , they passed some laws that also not doing your job is a criminal act and prosecutor general can make a case against you .and actually they tried several according to new laws . let see the law stand in this case or they decide to be a little lax on it.

No. A mentally stable person will not participate in a riot following an incident brought about by inadequate training or medical error.

as you see the majority of participant are teenage, so don't expect they think like a grownups . there is some reason that teenage people are not legally allowed to participate in some activities around the world.

The reason those rioters committed their destructive actions, is because they were made to believe by enemy propaganda that Mahsa Amini had been tortured and killed by law enforcement. Which turned out to be a blatant lie.

I believe they don't care that much about that , they have some beefs and complains that is not answered and repeatedly postponed , a dam only can tolerate so much , eventually it break if you don't release the water behind it . here mahsa amini was a spark , the rest is dry tinder that nobody wanted to see as it was trouble some

Moreover, the persistence of a certain amount of unintentional medical errors is inevitable, not just in other institutions but among medical personnel itself, no matter how well it is trained, because humans are susceptible to making mistakes. Suffice to look at how many are passing away because of treatment errors by medics including in developed countries. Absolute and total perfection in this regard is an illusory aim to pursue.

that's why training must be repeated each year . by the way in BLS we don't want much from a person who is not trained in medicine, according to AHA 2020 we only want chest compression and activating medical service , here medical service was activated but a little late while call for help is the first thing that must be done even if you are emergency medicine specialist but chest compression was not provided . also lack of AED can't be justified as we are part of limited countries that can produce them but sadly there are very few public building that have them , and sadly in this case if they had access to them probably by the time Prehospital EMS reached them she was sitting and were drinking something . as according to judiciary medicine report it seems what happened to her was cardiac arrhythmia , which was easily treatable even by a janitor in that facility if they had access to that device

Riots had started weeks before the legal medical team could work on and publish its report.

In the minds of rioters, there was a strong and valid reason to act, namely the false assumption that Mahsa Amini had been tortured and/or killed by law enforcement, false assumption peddled to them by the massive propaganda apparatus of Iran's existential foreign enemies and exiled opposition funded by those same enemy states.

as i said that was the spark not tinder and the enemies just were some dudes fanning it . if there was no spark or tinder , they could fan as much as they liked , there were no fire

 

[SalarHaqq]

I don’t think she was tortured either, torture implies that these morality police actually did horrific things, honestly we are never going to know what happened, because people are going to believe whatever they believe. maybe someone hit her, who knows, but I think whatever did or didn’t happen was accidental not a bunch of police kicking her or punching her, maybe she did have a medical issue maybe it exasperated from the situation only Allah knows right now, I don’t think she was killed intentionally I just think idiots handled everything from picking her up, instead of just telling her to step into the dark tinted van to fix her hijab and than say have a good day.to her being emotional stressed about the situation but I think those paramedics really tried to help her. I just wanted to add this those cctv might or might not have been edited but I can tell you this, you saw one scared and emotional girl, so maybe she died of fright is that much better.

you see till last year if an official , didn't do any crime but also did a bad job on what he must do . it was not a criminal act and the guy could not be tried in a court for not doing what he must have done.
since last year the situation changed , as we didn't lack such useless official that let golden opportunities pass in last 45 years and consequently harmed the country as general , they passed some laws that also not doing your job is a criminal act and prosecutor general can make a case against you .and actually they tried several according to new laws . let see the law stand in this case or they decide to be a little lax on it.

There is blame and blame. Death of an arrested person due to lacking medical expertise on the part of law enforcement agents on the one hand, and death as a result of beatings or worse, torture on the other hand, are two completely different sets of issues - both on the legal and moral levels.

Mahsa Amini was never tortured, nor did police violence cause her to pass away. There's a huge difference here which needs to be highlighted in response to user OneNation's false assertion.

as you see the majority of participant are teenage, so don't expect they think like a grownups . there is some reason that teenage people are not legally allowed to participate in some activities around the world.

The point stands, it was disinformation about the actual cause of Amini's death which sparked rioting. The average age of rioters does not change this fact.

I believe they don't care that much about that , they have some beefs and complains that is not answered and repeatedly postponed , a dam only can tolerate so much , eventually it break if you don't release the water behind it . here mahsa amini was a spark , the rest is dry tinder that nobody wanted to see as it was trouble some

Had it not been for the false assumption that Amini dies as a result of police violence, the reaction of these rioters would have been very different, pent up frustrations or not.

that's why training must be repeated each year . by the way in BLS we don't want much from a person who is not trained in medicine, according to AHA 2020 we only want chest compression and activating medical service , here medical service was activated but a little late while call for help is the first thing that must be done even if you are emergency medicine specialist but chest compression was not provided . also lack of AED can't be justified as we are part of limited countries that can produce them but sadly there are very few public building that have them , and sadly in this case if they had access to them probably by the time Prehospital EMS reached them she was sitting and were drinking something . as according to judiciary medicine report it seems what happened to her was cardiac arrhythmia , which was easily treatable even by a janitor in that facility if they had access to that device

Zero incidents or mistakes in medical treatment is an unattainable goal, whether in Iran or elsewhere.

as i said that was the spark not tinder and the enemies just were some dudes fanning it . if there was no spark or tinder , they could fan as much as they liked , there were no fire

And as I said, the so-called spark was disinformation.

 

[shadihassan28]

There is blame and blame. Death of an arrested person due to lacking medical expertise on the part of law enforcement agents on the one hand, and death as a result of beatings or worse, torture on the other hand, are two completely different sets of issues - both on the legal and moral levels.

Mahsa Amini was never tortured, nor did police violence cause her to pass away. There's a huge difference here which needs to be highlighted in response to user OneNation's false assertion.



The point stands, it was disinformation about the actual cause of Amini's death which sparked rioting. The average age of rioters does not change this fact.



Had it not been for the false assumption that Amini dies as a result of police violence, the reaction of these rioters would have been very different, pent up frustrations or not.



Zero incidents or mistakes in medical treatment is an unattainable goal, whether in Iran or elsewhere.



And as I said, the so-called spark was disinformation.

I’m just going to ask you one thing, like I said o don’t believe she was tortured, but do you think with this pretext for whatever you want to call it riots/protests could have been as easy to tell a girl can you please fix your hijab in this tinted van and you can be on your way, it’s kind of silly the cost of having this police out there taking these girls putting them in these centers to wait for their parents or husband etc, it must cost millions of dollars to run this police force, when a simple can you please fix your hijab in a van.

 

[Hack-Hook]

And as I said, the so-called spark was disinformation.

and the tinder was dissatisfaction and not answering those dissatisfaction
the death was the spark , the disinformation was the fanning .

 

[SalarHaqq]

and the tinder was dissatisfaction and not answering those dissatisfaction
the death was the spark , the disinformation was the fanning .

Satisfaction and dissatisfaction are eminently subjective sentiments. They too are susceptible to conditioning by propaganda, peer pressure, group think, social engineerig, psychological operations and so on, especially in a place like Iran which has been subjected to the most intense and most massive propaganda campaign in the history of man.

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honestly we are never going to know what happened,

We know two things:

1) Mahsa Amini was not tortured.
2) She did not pass away as a result of police violence.

Those are now evidenced facts.

maybe someone hit her, who knows,

If so, then these weren't lethal hits.

maybe she did have a medical issue maybe it exasperated from the situation only Allah knows right now,

She did have pre-existing medical conditions, as explained by her father on camera, as evidenced by her CT scans which were made public, as shown by the records of hospitals where she was treated, and as confirmed by the legal medical report.

I just wanted to add this those cctv might or might not have been edited

What was shown tends to exclude the hypothesis that Mahsa Amini passed away as a result of police violence. The supposition that edited sequences would suggest otherwise is pretty much inconceivable given the nature of the footage aired on television.

but I can tell you this, you saw one scared and emotional girl, so maybe she died of fright is that much better.

It definitely makes a big difference as to the type of responsibility one may attribute to law enforcement and state authorities in general. Shooting or beating to death an arrested person or a suspect (a frequent occurrence in the USA) is far worse an offense than medical error leading to the person's death.

I’m just going to ask you one thing, like I said o don’t believe she was tortured, but do you think with this pretext for whatever you want to call it riots/protests could have been as easy to tell a girl can you please fix your hijab in this tinted van and you can be on your way, it’s kind of silly the cost of having this police out there taking these girls putting them in these centers to wait for their parents or husband etc, it must cost millions of dollars to run this police force, when a simple can you please fix your hijab in a van.

Maybe. This is in fact the object of free contradictory debates in Iran as we speak. The way in which the dress code should be enforced, and the current dress code itself are both being discussed publicly, and different opinions are expressed by commentators and officials.

 

[shadihassan28]

Well she might not have been tortured, but I didn’t say she wasn’t terrified either, but like I said there would have been no pretext for protests/riots if people had just told some girl hey your showing to much hair I know you didn’t mean to but can you just fix it in this dark tinted van, no one will watch you and you can enjoy the rest of your day.

Satisfaction and dissatisfaction are eminently subjective sentiments. They too are very heavily conditioned by propaganda, peer pressure, group think, social engineerig, psychological operations and so on, especially in a place like Iran which has been subjected to the most intense and most massive propaganda campaign in the history of man.

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We know two things:

1) Mahsa Amini was not tortured.
2) She did not pass away as a result of police violence.

Those are documented facts.



It wouldn't have caused her to lose her life.



She did have pre-existing medical conditions, as explained by her father on camera, as evidenced by her CT scans which were made public, as shown by the records of hospitals where she was treated, and as confirmed by the legal medical report.



What was shown tends to exclude the hypothesis that Mahsa Amini passed away as a result of police violence, and the supposition that edited sequences would suggest otherwise is pretty much inconceivable given the nature of the footage aired on television.



It definitely makes a huge difference as to the type of responsibility one may attribute to law enforcement and state authorities in general. Shooting or beating to death an arrested person or a suspect (a frequent occurrence in the USA) is far worse an offense than medical error.



Maybe. This is in fact the object of free contradictory debates in Iran as we speak. Both the ways in which the dress code should be enforced, and the dress code itself in its current form are being discussed publicly.

Agree there’s police brutality, they get away with it to sometimes, depends what part of the country and the color or race of the victim, they do get away at times,usually family sues and gets millions which I totally agree with, it’s basically like blood money without actually admitting anyone did anything wrong. Not even referencing what’s going on right now or whatever anyone thinks happened to the girl, I can tell you if there are corrupt cops in America there are corrupt cops everywhere, but the difference again is sometimes cops go to jail here, you really can’t tell me an Iranian cop has never gone to far, because sorry the one thing I can tell you in all societies there are people who like to abuse the little power they have

 

[SalarHaqq]

the difference again is sometimes cops go to jail here,

Not very often.

you really can’t tell me an Iranian cop has never gone to far, because sorry the one thing I can tell you in all societies there are people who like to abuse the little power they have

The question is not whether there are abusive people in a law enforcement, there always will be, but rather how brutal, widespread and frequent such abuses are. As it stands, relative to the two countries' respective populations, many more are (unnecessarily) killed by police forces in the USA compared to Iran.

The other point is that Mahsa Amini wasn't subjected to lethal police violence, therefore those who started attacking law enforcement and destroying public and private property under the false assumption that Amini was killed by police agents (still shared by some), are acting in a highly irresponsible and stupid manner. Blame also falls on hostile powers and media which kept insinuating or outright claiming that Amini was murdered by the police.

 

[shadihassan28]

Not very often.



The question is not whether there are abusive people in a law enforcement, there always will be, but rather how brutal, widespread and frequent such abuses are. As it stands, relative to the two countries' respective populations, many more are (unnecessarily) killed by police forces in the USA compared to Iran.

The other point is that Mahsa Amini wasn't subjected to lethal police violence, therefore those who started attacking law enforcement and destroying public and private property under the false assumption that Amini was killed by police agents (still shared by some), are acting in a highly irresponsible and stupid manner. Blame also falls on hostile powers and media which kept insinuating or outright claiming that Amini was murdered by the police.

Honestly it’s been nice chatting, I know I don’t get everything right and honestly nobody does only Allah is actually all knowing and knows what’s in the heart of people but I like when we can have respectful chats