Iranian Chill Thread
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Like I said myself, literacy rates were already on the way up before the revolution. It continued after the revolution. You have to give credit where credit it due. The current ruling establishment deserves some credit for continuing the trend & developing Iran further. However credit should also be given the the Pahlavi government. They began modernizing Iran at a time when Iran was a largely rural & agrarian society. Regardless of all this, it's pretty obvious that Iran can't become a first world country & isn't going to reach its full potential unless it can trade openly with all nations without restrictions. Just look at North Korea & South Korea. One country openly trades with the entire world without restrictions, the other is completely restricted & practices a belligerent & militaristic foreign policy. The standard of living & personal freedoms their people enjoy is like night & day, like two different planets.
SalarHaqq
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I will take a "wrong and irrelevant metaphor" over inverted racism and submission to Iran's existential enemies, a favorite hobby of reformists and moderates, any day of the week.
This is the ideology driving the reformist camp and its name is well known to all:
No, correct way and you know it. Stop trolling.
Literacy rate increase prior to the Islamic Revolution: 35 percentage points during 58 years.
After the Islamic Revolution: 47 percentage points in 44 years.
Conclusion: it rose at a faster pace after 1979.
Cope with it, get used to it.
You think posting redundant low resolution charts will somehow alter the established reality?
We're not comparing isolated stretches of those time periods but overall performance of two governments. The Pahlavi regime was imposed on the Iranian people by the British and the Americans from 1921 to 1979, and not merely between 1956 and 1966. So the window you cherry picked is plain irrelevant.
Pahlavi regime: +35 percentage points in 58 years of rule.
Islamic Republic: +47 percentage points in 44 years of governance.
By the way, those who grouse about Iran's current literacy rate by pointing to Turkey, ought to take a look at how wide the gap between Iran and Turkey was under the shah regime in 1979, versus how much the Islamic Republic managed to reduce it as shown on the chart.
Partial selective data which, just as the previously cited example is obfuscating the significantly superior overall strides taken after 1979.
When it comes to public health:
https://english.khamenei.ir/news/3317/Public-health-before-and-after-the-Islamic-Revolution
Of interest in this regard:
Major indicators of health including life expectancy (LE), maternal death, and under-five mortality reveal a great improvement. LE at birth increased from below 55 years before 1979 to 75.47 years (75.38 to 75.55) for males and 79.36 years (79.28 to 79.46) for females in 2017 (1). Iran is one of the few countries that have gained more than 35 years of LE for both women and men since 1950 and the values are now much higher than the world average (1). Maternal mortality decreased from 237 to 19 per 100,000 and under-five mortality from more than 55 to less than 15 per 100 during the same period.
The establishment of the Iranian model of primary health care (PHC) occurred during the war. A network of health houses and health centers managed by local health workers called Behvarz was launched just in the middle of the Iraq-Iran war (2). This and other health system activities including the expansion of immunization programs, vertical and horizontal programs for contending diarrheal and respiratory tract infections, along with expanding the capacity of universities for training more physicians, nurses, and midwives and other needed medical and paramedical staff, all had major impacts in attaining these successes.
The immunization coverage of children before 1979 was just 30% and it is now more than 95%. As a result, the number of preventable diseases decreased tremendously over the past four decades. Neonatal tetanus, as an example of the success of vaccination programs, was reduced from more than 10,0000 per year to zero. Another important achievement is about poliomyelitis. Iran has been polio-free since 20 years ago. This is not unique to Iran but the importance of this achievement would be further recognized knowing that there are only two countries with ongoing polio epidemics worldwide, both of which are the eastern neighbors of Iran.
The development of pharmaceutical industries in Iran in 1979 was salient. Now, more than 96% of the quantity and 70% of the value of drugs are domestically produced. This is of utmost importance when one considers that before 1979, there were a few native formulations of drugs and most of the pharmaceutical companies at the time only packaged the imported drugs. Iran is now one of the major producers of high tech drugs including biologics in Asia.
Health in Iran; 40 Years After the Islamic Revolution
Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI) was established 40 years ago. On the 40th anniversary of this new model of the pious practice of democracy that has been invo...
brieflands.com
This is without mentioning scientific development in general, where the Islamic Republic has outperformed the former regime by a huge margin.
https://english.khamenei.ir/news/7361/Women-s-education-before-and-after-the-Islamic-Revolution-A
Let's not even get into how the Islamic Republic dwarfs the Pahlavi regime in terms of the education system - primary, secondary and higher education included.
Except that it wasn't the same Musavi at all, but one who was pursuing diametrically opposite policies and who was characterized by a radically different ideological outlook back in the day. In fact, the Musavi of the 1980's was standing for the kind of approach we continue to advocate, minus certain particular aspects, but which liberals (reformists / moderates) today are literally allergic to. When Musavi and his ilk operated their political mutation to found the reformist movement, it's no less than a 180 degree u-turn they took on all major topics.
Yes, under the premiership of the initial Musavi who used to be loyal to the principles of the Islamic Revolution (unlike the current Musavi we reject), and under the presidency of the present day Supreme Leader, the fastest rise was recorded. Indeed.
Another aspect to take into account is that illiterates are mostly elderly people who were at school-age prior to the Islamic Revolution, when enrollment rates were significantly lower. In other terms, if Iran's literacy rate stands at some 90% today (rather than, say, 96%-97%) that's mostly due to the failures of the shah regime because the bulk of those who cannot read and write would've had to attend school under the ousted monarchy however they were deprived of education.
This also explains why the literacy rate curve since 2005 is less steep. It's a natural phenomenon. Considering that primary school enrollment in Iran reached 109,7% in 2020, the Islamic Republic has achieved practically everything there's to achieve in terms of the education of Iranian children. After the demise of the eldest age groups, Iran's literacy rate will automatically climb by several percentage points.
Iran Primary school enrollment - data, chart | TheGlobalEconomy.com
Iran: Primary school enrollment, percent of all eligible children: The latest value from 2020 is 104.48 percent, a decline from 106.08 percent in 2019. In comparison, the world average is 100.59 percent, based on data from 148 countries. Historically, the average for Iran from 1971 to 2020 is...
Besides, liberals ought to make up their minds: either Iran's a draconian autocracy where the Supreme Leader concentrates all power in his hands and "dictates" every policy, or not. In the former case - which is what liberals actually contend, no argument can be made along the lines of the above quote.
Not Ahmadinejad but seyyed Khamenei (h.A.) and shahid Reja'i were my favorite Presidents.
This wasn't the point.
Rather, it's that literacy improved more speedily under the Islamic Republic.
Pahlavi regime: +35 percentage points over 58 long years.
Islamic Republic: +44 percentage points in a shorter period of 44 years.
Therefore, the notion that enhanced development is impossible without close relations with the west is disproved by these figures.
There's no such sine qua non condition.
Suicide rates in these two countries are also like night and day, with south Korea among world leaders.
More importantly, sovereignty is absent from south Korea whereas the DPRK is fully independent.
As for "trading with the entire world without restrictions", what does it have to do with anything? The most impoverished countries on Earth can and often are "trading with the entire world" freely.
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Sineva
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What will pakistans generals and its deep state do if things start to really get out of control I wonder?,will they follow the egyptian example where mubarak was left to his fate,only for the deep state to then reassert itself when it felt the time was right by overthrowing the elected morsi government?.
Hack-Hook
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show you even didn't read the article . it literally pop some people bubble world
109.7% really
except Shahid Rajaee have no time to do any change and at at the time of Mr. Khamenei the power was in hand of prime minister not president and guess who was the prime minister . Mr. Moosavi.
guess your favorite head of government was actually Mr. Moosavi.
after 8 year it become clear who is more loyal to principels of Islamic Republic mr. Moosavi or mr, Ahmadinejad
read the research i post , the fastest growth in literacy rate was in 1956-1966 when they divided it in 10 years periods
and that was in a condition that before that period they had to force the parents to send their children to school and it was in a time that Iran had literally no money and was dirt poor
I don't recall anybody mentioned that, it just made up in your mind
like them do any thing that bother china.
it won't go out of control , their constitution literally allow the army to take control . in fact they like the unrest , they simply use it as an excuseWhat will pakistans generals and its deep state do if things start to really get out of control I wonder?,will they follow the egyptian example where mubarak was left to his fate,only for the deep state to then reassert itself when it felt the time was right by overthrowing the elected morsi government?.
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SalarHaqq
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No, data relative to literacy in Iran under the Pahlavis and the Islamic Republic is readily available, it was shared by me and what it proves unequivocally is that the rate increased at a significantly stronger pace after 1979.
+47 percentage points in 44 years of Islamic Republic versus +35 percentage points over 58 years of UK- and US-installed Pahlavi dictatorship to be precise.
Suggests you're unaware how this indicator functions.
Is this a reason for me not to rank him among my favorite Presidents?
and at at the time of Mr. Khamenei the power was in hand of prime minister not president and guess who was the prime minister . Mr. Moosavi.
guess your favorite head of government was actually Mr. Moosavi.
You know perfectly well that the Musavi of the 1980's was the exact political opposite of the Musavi who resulted from the reformist transition. Ideologically unstable officials are useless over the long term.
Musavi and those like him operated a full fledged ideological u-turn consecutive to the Montazeri affair to form the reformist current, current which represents the direct antithesis of what its members were standing for during the first decade of the victorious Islamic Revolution. To the point that they openly disown their former orientation nowadays. Ever since, the principlists and other revolutionaries are the only ones to embody the original spirit. In addition to the Leadership of course.
And so did Ahmadinejad during his first presidential term, by adjoining a bit of his own tinge. His second term however was marked by various deviations. Anyone acting in breach of the Leader's guidelines is on a deviationist course. Ahmadinejad, who started out very well, is another unstable official who thus followed in the footsteps of the reformists. Looking forward for the latter to be sidelined as much as the former.
There's no point to remarks such as the above quoted one, they shouldn't be directed at people who know their political history of the Revolution.
Nobody was discussing 10-year periods but distinct governments as such.
And that too was of the shah regime's own making. Because it failed at creating the conditions for a social-cultural environment in which parents, the extreme majority of whom were (and still are) deeply religious, would be at ease with the notion of allowing their children to attend school.
People were experiencing the secularist nature of the regime and its excesses first hand. They had had to suffer Reza Khan's assault on the clergy and on the country's traditional popular religiosity (restrictions placed on Ashura commemorations, hejab ban etc). They were witnessing the rise of trashy commercial Film Farsi productions where Iranian women were made to undress, the Shiraz "cultural" festival featuring nudity, the westoxication (qarbzadegi) of the regime's elites and its impact on the public sphere, denounced by countless intellectuals. The recalcitrance shown by parents was only natural under such conditions.
Truth is that the Pahlavis were simply out of touch with the daily reality of Iranian society, with the pulse of their people. They couldn't see how the model of society they were trying to impose would never gain a solid foothold within the Moslem nation of Iran, what's more a nation founded upon a multi-millennial, sophisticated civilization of its own.
Of course these issues were heavily compounded when it came to Iranian females. The social-cultural context was deemed highly alienating by parents and young females alike. In major urban settings it was literally unsafe for females to move around unaccompanied, especially if they weren't observing hejab. Physical harassment by males was a highly frequent occurrence (comparable to Egypt, Turkey etc).
By contrast, the Islamic Republic allowed the social-cultural landscape to conform to local Iranian traditions. Elaborate academic studies in political anthropology and sociology have evidenced how it was precisely thanks to the re-Islamization of public space in Iran after 1979 that female Iranians gained confidence and began feeling comfortable enough to allow their daughters to attend school and university, to increase their participation in social life many fold, to venture outside home on a regular basis, and to enter the labor market to a reasonable extent.
Therefore, the failure of the Pahlavi regime in this area is squarely on its own flawed and short-sighted approach. It stemmed from a mindset which elevates the west to the status of a paramount source of superficial emulation, a mindset which exhibits lack of focus on Iran's own heritage and lack of trust in the capabilities it can generate. We can see who today is pursuing this line of thinking, in and outside of Iran.
Inoperative pretext. In fact Iran was submerged by income from crude oil exports between 1973 and 1978, yet according to your own statement the growth in literacy slowed down during that period as compared to 1955-1965.
If you don't 'recall' then read again. That response wasn't addressing you anyway.
There are numerous Chinese users on this forum. Go ask them why the DPRK cannot be considered a Chinese vassal, and how Pyongyang's policies have run counter to Beijing's prefered outcome on more than one occasion. Korea's nuclear armament being among said policies.
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Hack-Hook
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I believe the moosavi was the same but Iran was not the same and moosavi looked at the country and world situation and gave his program and by the way I believe he is still far more loyal to Islamic Republic Ideals than mr. Ahmadinejad.
thats how it's discussed in academic environment , not vague half century periods as pahlavi era of different periods are a lot different as Islamic republic era of different periods are also a lot different and you cant sum them up with each other, society is fluid entity it change it won't remain static so comparing the half century periods won't tell us anything meaningful
its just good for propaganda but wont show us the whole story.
and that parents wanted to use their children as free worker had nothing to do with that ?
still higher than after the revolution .
PyongYang rely on china for existence their only trade partner is china , everything they had is financed by china or provided by them , the chinese users want a korea like several hundred years ago that the korean emperor must be ratified by chinese emperor and had to give grain , gold, women and enuch on yearly base to chinese government so yes they complain that Korea is not aligned with them . but if you consider alignment definition in a more sane and moderate term then you see N. Korea is completely aligned with china
SalarHaqq
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Musavi's politics morphed from top to bottom. Noone can deny it.
The whole story is not confined to cherry picked 10-year periods. My statement stands, the Islamic Republic's record in terms of boosting literacy in Iran trumps that of the Pahlavi regime.
"Evil" parents... The "Light of Aryans" was only begging for a chance to offer them what's best for them, but these ungrateful peasants rejected it. Do you hear yourself?
The mechanisms at play were elaborated upon in my previous comment. In a setting protective of long-standing cultural traditions, parents will not have to worry about material subsistence since educated offspring will support them either way, and do so with higher wages than uneducated offspring.
If parents and females became immensely more comfortable to participate in the public space after 1979, it was not due to them abruptly revising their economic calculus, but to social-cultural factors first and foremost. The windfall of the Islamization of public space in this regard is documented by serious academic studies, as I said.
And slower the rest of the time, to the point that the Pahlavi regime's overall performance in this regard can't hold a candle to the Islamic Republic's.
It's not a matter of alignment but of documented instances of Korea going against China's preferred choice. That means Korea is independent. Independence doesn't preclude freely established alliances or strategic cooperation. This said, no, Korea is enjoying an immense degree of self-sufficiency, it's very far from being supplied everything by China.
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Hack-Hook
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the drive for increase literacy rate didn't start till 50s , islamic republic just followed the trends
evil or not, nobody can deny children were used and still are used as free laborers
self sufficiency on what , that is the question on ridiculous philosophy of worshiping a family ?
they are not self sufficient on producing , food , their home appliances are imported from china , their factories are from china , ....
they rely on others for their energy , food , technology . their weapon technology is based on russian and chinese technology
SalarHaqq
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And did so with greater success than the previous regime.
It is not a decisive factor in the evolution of literacy in Iran. The points I raised however are backed up by high profile academic research.
Read up on the topic some more, and by that I don't mean dwelling on the cartoonish mainstream propaganda.
Right after the war, the DPRK embarked on one of the most ambitious programs ever introduced to achieve wide scale autarky. This ushered in an economy which can sustain itself in a largely self-sufficient manner, existing shortcomings notwithstanding. Korean factories are Korean-made, a collectivized agriculture is supplying food, and energy is gained from hydroelectric and coal plants (they even export electricity to China). As for their weapons technology, again the levels of autonomy are extremely high.
Either way, the government of the DPRK is up there among the single most independent ones in the world. Their policies aren't dictated by anybody including the Chinese. They've shown that they wouldn't hesitate to opt for sovereignty over anything else, even if it means enduring tremendous hardships. So there's no chance that the DPRK would consent to act as a client state of China. In spite of this, Beijing will not turn its back on the DPRK simply because ongoing conditions serve the PRC's interest just fine, considering regional and global geopolitics.
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Hack-Hook
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not really
it was a decisive element in parents don't send their children to school and they had to use Gendarmes to make the parent send children to school, later in mid 50s to 60s the problem get solved and in 80s that islamic republic come to power there was no such problem for more than two decades so in reality Islamic republic had nothing to do with parent willingness to send their children to school , it more had to do with change in society and job market which all happened before revolution
can you show us the results of those programs not the propaganda of the ruling family
lydian fall
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Shah fking taghooti regime is not even comparable with Islamic Republic
We couldn't even make wires that time
Case closed.
We couldn't even make wires that time
Case closed.
SalarHaqq
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In actual fact i.e. quite absolutely.
This is nonsense. Parents won't hold back their children out of personal greed. They'll do so if their collective subsistence is objectively at stake.
If it was, then again the shah regime would be to blame for not creating the necessary economic opportunities for people. And if not, then other factors would be underpinning parental reluctance. The very same factors which discouraged females from entering and becoming active in the public space, which the Islamic Republic solved through measures such as the dress code, a return to the cultural roots of the nation, and so on.
No, generalized societal modernization is a post-Revolutionary phenomenon. Anything observed prior to 1979 was embryonic.
This statement suggests you'll deliberately choose to dismiss anything other than mainstream media discourse as "Korean ruling family propaganda". If you can't see that a country capable of setting up an elaborate nuclear weapons program as well as an impressive defence industry, will also have been endowed with the scientific and technological resources to develop a vast array of civilian industries, there's no point going in circles.
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LegionnairE
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This is normal, just about all human development is logarithmic. For thousands of years, seemingly nothing happens, in 200 years, we go from fighting with sharp objects and spears to nuclear weapons and spaceflight.Between Wright brothers and Apollo 11 there is less than 100 years of time.
But the chart you provided about Turkey is simply wrong. Between 1920 and 1950 Iran is just flat?
Who believes this?
And there's a sharp decrease in literacy in Turkey during the war, So 1920 data is just meaningless. Most historians talk about 1914 and 1923, nobody is collecting census data during WWI and Turkish War of Independence.
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