Instead of forming military courts, give security to civil judges: Fazl-ur-Rehman

[punit]

I am not in favour of making military courts permanent however there is dire need of extension for another 5 years given the circumstances in Pakistan. If everything goes back to normal, we will have to ultimately empower civil courts

whats the difference b/w civ and military courts? are judges from army ?

 

[Hyde]

whats the difference b/w civ and military courts? are judges from army ?

Yes

The judges are from Army, the cases are not fought in public. The Chief of Army Staff signs their death warrant etc

The idea is, civilian judges might be afraid to give verdict against the terrorist so Army trials them same like they trial their own soldiers.

PS: We had history of cases where a terrorist would be caught fighting against the army in the battlefield or say a suicide bomber was caught before he exploded but got released due to lack of evidence in the civil courts. In civil court you are innocent until proven guilty... In military court prove yourself innocent to get released, Big difference

Speedy justice in military courts as only few high profile cases are referred so the terrorist gets justice as soon as possible instead of awaiting for trial in civil courts for years

 

[punit]

Yes

The judges are from Army, the cases are not fought in public. The Chief of Army Staff signs their death warrant etc

The idea is, civilian judges might be afraid to give verdict against the terrorist so Army trials them same like they trial their own soldiers.

PS: We had history of cases where a terrorist would be caught fighting against the army in the battlefield or say a suicide bomber was caught before he exploded but got released due to lack of evidence in the civil courts. In civil court you are innocent until proven guilty... In military court prove yourself innocent to get released, Big difference

Speedy justice in military courts as only few high profile cases are referred so the terrorist gets justice as soon as possible instead of awaiting for trial in civil courts for years

fine for some high profile cases but not good in long term.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Civilian court system has become broken need a rethink I hear court cases can get extensions and reviews for year and year and years

If a case cannot be decided in 1-2 Days then our court system is broken

 

[Hyde]

fine for some high profile cases but not good in long term.

There are interviews available of terrorists boasting that they will get released from the civil court and will not move away from their path. What the military court has done is, created atmosphere of fear amongst the terrorists. There are more than 400 terrorists hanged till moratorium ended in 2014 if I know the correct figures...

And many of them were high profile cases. The overall terrorism reduced with various factors including speedy justice by the military court which is something new for terrorists who used to imagine that for the crime they did in 2016, they will be charged in 2026 or most likely get released due to lack of evidence. Now they are hanged by 2017 with the only right of appeal directly to the supreme court bypassing lengthy process of appeals to District and High Courts

 

[Deadpool]

Yes

The judges are from Army, the cases are not fought in public. The Chief of Army Staff signs their death warrant etc

The idea is, civilian judges might be afraid to give verdict against the terrorist so Army trials them same like they trial their own soldiers.

PS: We had history of cases where a terrorist would be caught fighting against the army in the battlefield or say a suicide bomber was caught before he exploded but got released due to lack of evidence in the civil courts. In civil court you are innocent until proven guilty... In military court prove yourself innocent to get released, Big difference

Speedy justice in military courts as only few high profile cases are referred so the terrorist gets justice as soon as possible instead of awaiting for trial in civil courts for years

To be honest with you Sir.
Having military courts for any non-military personnel is a grave threat to institutions of Democracy. Judiciary is one of them.

Better that Govt. of Pakistan tasks the Military to protect the Judges than give the Military judicial powers over non-Military persons(yes, even hardcore terrorists).

I know Pakistanis give least credence to such things as institution building and prefer the expedient but take it for what its worth. This is a tiger you're riding even if it does not seem so to anyone now.

 

[Hyde]

To be honest with you Sir.
Having military courts for any non-military personnel is a grave threat to institutions of Democracy. Judiciary is one of them.

I know Pakistanis give least credence to such things as institution building and prefer the expedient but take it for what its worth.

Better that Govt. of Pakistan tasks the Military to protect the Judges than give the Military judicial powers over non-Military persons(yes, even hardcore terrorists).

Sir the Supreme Court of Pakistan remains the highest judiciary in Pakistan and retains the right to revoke any decision of military court. The only difference is, if for example there are 1 million cases in civil courts, you take some of the terrorism related cases out and refer to military courts. They will judge and bypass the District Court and High Court who is often to have come under influence of extremists and will carry postponing the cases or going on holidays or refusing to hear such cases. The Supreme Court remains highest authority and the accused is free to file an appeal to the Supreme Court. There have not beem great example of cases overturned by the Supreme Court so far but it could also be due to the very fact that the accused has not been able to prove himself innocent

 

[Path-Finder]

Military courts need to be a permanent feature in Pakistan, kangaroo courts have disheartened the nation for far too long.

 

[Deadpool]

Sir the Supreme Court of Pakistan remains the highest judiciary in Pakistan and retains the right to revoke any decision of military court. The only difference is, if for example there are 1 million cases in civil courts, you take some of the terrorism related cases out and refer to military courts. They will judge and bypass the District Court and High Court who is often to have come under influence of extremists and will carry postponing the cases or going on holidays or refusing to hear such cases. The Supreme Court remains highest authority and the accused is free to file an appeal to the Supreme Court. There have not beem great example of cases overturned by the Supreme Court so far but it could also be due to the very fact that the accused has not been able to prove himself innocent

This is good to know.

The idea of Military courts for civilians(of any kind) where Military is Judge, Jury and Executioner would be considered blasphemy in India and this despite the military never ever putting a step out of line against the Govt. of India in its entire history.

I would have said that intuitively in Pakistan, the Govt.of Pakistan considering its past experiences would never have done it.

Is it possible that to carve out a hand picked "Terrorism Bench" from the Judiciary in Pakistan which was to be protected exclusively by the Military, just like we have "commerce benches" in Judiciary(in both India and Pakistan) which deal with commercial disputes (which requires specialized domain knowledge even amongst Judges) ?

Or am I just talking non-sense? Would appreciate a deeper understanding.

 

[I S I]

Diesel is a respectable figure in Pakistan's political system. His students are also joining army, bureaucracy etc..
Just like other power holders, diesel and his deobandi school of thought is one of major ones.

Every top beghairat is "respectable" in Pakistani politics.

 

[Emmie]

fine for some high profile cases but not good in long term.

Mil Courts are specific for high profile cases, civilian government(s) decides and refer the case to Mil Courts. Ordinary citizens or military itself can't invoke Mil Court jurisdiction.

Plan was to establish Mil Courts for two years, in mean time civilians courts would be reformed. Politicians being incompetent failed to bring any reform.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistani Court (Civilian)

Guy stands trial drenched in blood , and has not taken a shower as he killed 10 people.
His lawyer comes to Judge ans says , "Client" needs some time to plan his defence , and this goes on for 5-10-15 years

If it is a Rich guy , they leave the country in next available flight to Dubai

For Cases against Politicians and Mafia , the court does not even takes up the case, either the Judge becomes ill or they go in a 1 year sabatical

• Similarly the Poice Officers are fearful of lodging a case against Politician out of fear of losing their job or getting transferred to distant locations

 

[Verve]

Civil courts at present are neither geared up for nor capable to handle cases of terrorists involved in guerilla warfare against the state.

Military courts should continue as long as required.

 

[The Eagle]

Mil Courts are for the cases that Civilian Government refers and falls under Section of Terrorism, anti-State activities that we can say as High Profile/National Security matters.

Fazal Sahib right at time when bill was moved in na for extension of Mil Courts. Sections defined for terrorism etc cases are in Jurisdiction of District & Sessions Judge/anti-Terrorism Court that are provided with enough Security otherwise, Ex CJ Iftikhar did not deliver even having bullet proof vehicle and such escort. Such terrorists cases cannot be contested in these times where Judge is being afraid due to insecurity of Family while Policemen prays for his safety that mostly Court enquires their detail in open Court too where Terrorist supporter could be sitting.

Maulana Sahib need to be reminded that Military Court did not ask for any security which is far more needed for public safety and still would do the job without any fear. Before Military Court, how many were hanged by Civilian Courts.

Let the Justice be served that in few years it wouldn't be needing Military Courts but stopping it at the moment, is like injustice to the grieving families.

 

[@GeoDhola]

By GEO NEWSPosted on: 40 minutes ago

PESHAWAR: Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (F) chief Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman spoke against a draft law which if passed will make military courts permanent.

Addressing a press conference on Thursday he said that it was being implied that judges from civil courts are “cowards”. “Forming military courts is an insult to civil judges,” he said.

“Instead of forming military courts, we should address the issues that judges in civil courts face. Why can’t we give security to civil judges?” he said.

“What is the point of such courts where accused are produced in a state of fear? This is against basic justice,” he said.

The Interior Ministry has decided to combine the Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA) with the Protection of Pakistan Act (PPA) and the new law in this regard has been drafted.

The decision was made in a meeting of the National Assembly's Standing Committee on Interior on Wednesday. After approval by the interior minister, the draft law will be put before parliament.

The draft covers the issue of military courts. Military courts are to expire on January 7 and all under-trial cases will be transferred to the anti-terrorism courts. At present, 120 cases are being heard in military courts, which had received 300 cases overall.

Under the new law, military courts will become permanent and terrorism cases will be sent to them.

CPEC is being politicized: Fazl

Speaking about the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), Fazl said that the project was being politicized. “Till the time there were serious reservations, we raised our voice and tried to sort out matters. But we cannot be party to non-serious issues,” he said.

He said that the Pakistan People’s Party had changed its political stance. He welcomed PPP co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari’s return to Pakistan.

He said that no member of the JUI-F was involved in corruption. “Those trying to stir a storm in a teacup should be ashamed of themselves,” he said.



Dear Moulana, Cival Judges ko security faraham bhi kar di gai tub bhi wo na to Nawaz Sharif ke ghundu ko saza dein gay na hi Aapkey Mullah dehshat gardoon ko, so you better shut your mouth and let Army Courts be formed permanently so they could do JUSTICE in real means.

Incompetent civil judges have been instrumental in bailing out terrorists and criminals..no civil judge has been able to prosecute top thieves looting the country...



Incompetent civil judges and those taking bribes need to be "marked & list out first" by ISI and investigated under national Action plan & Zarb e Azb. They are Sahoolat Kaars of dehshat gards.