Do you have any family in Tabligh?
The power had gone hence my late reply.
As far as I know I don't have family in the TJ.
I know you view Tabligh as extreme, but I view it as a pacifist and moderate organization.
Bhai, you are right that some members are pacifist but the TJ has been banned in Russia and the Muslim-majority Central Asian countries because they have found it to be the stepping stone towards former or active members joining violent groups and indulging in violent acts.
I quote the
following from the Wikipedia page for TJ :
Law enforcement officials says that Tablighi Jamaat's presence all around the world and its apolitical stance have been exploited by militant groups. Philip Haney described Tablighi Jamaat as a "trans-national Islamist network". The Tablighi Jamaat has been described as "a conduit and a fertile recruiting ground for jihadi organizations such as Al-Qaeda and Lashkar-i-Taiba". However, Tablighi Jamaat itself has not been accused of terrorism by US officials. Leaders of the Tablighi Jamaat have denounced Al-Qaeda. According to Alex Alexiev, "perhaps 80% percent of the Islamist extremists have come from Tablighi ranks, prompting French intelligence officers to call Tablighi Jamaat the 'antechamber of fundamentalism.'"
Tablighi members who have been charged with terrorism include: Zacarias Moussaoui (charged in the United States in the 11 September attacks), Hervé Djamel Loiseau (French citizen found in Afghanistan), and Djamel Beghal (Algerian-born French citizen and Al Qaeda member who was convicted of plotting to blow up the U.S. Embassy in Paris), Syed Rizwan Farook. In a foiled January 2008 bombing plot in Barcelona, Spain, "some media reports" stated that a Muslim leader in the city stated that the fourteen suspects arrested by police in a series of raids (where bomb-making materials were seized) were members of the Tablighi Jamaat. Other terrorist plots and attacks on civilians that members of Tablighi Jamaat have been connected with include the Portland Seven, the Lackawanna Six, the 2006 transatlantic aircraft plot, the 7/7 London bombings, the 2007 London car bombs, and 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack
So not so pacifist after all.
Actually this is my critique of them. They lack the political vision or impetus to govern and influence an Islamic state, like Pakistan.
From the same Wikipedia page for TJ :
In Pakistan, prime minister Nawaz Sharif (whose father was a prominent Tablighi member and financier) helped Tablighi members take prominent political positions. For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar, a Tablighi sympathiser, took the ceremonial presidency while, in 1990, Lt. Gen. Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's chief intelligence agency. In 1995, after Benazir Bhutto, who was less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership, the Pakistani army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers and civilians, some of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom also held membership in Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined terrorist organisation. In January 2016, in what was "probably the first time that any restriction has been placed on Tableeghi Jamaat" in Pakistan, the Punjab government banned preaching on university campuses, and banned Tableeghi Jamaat (and other non-students) from preaching and staying in campus hostels.
So the TJ in Pakistan could influence quite high positioned things.
About Indian Muslims, already a fearful and reclusive minority, being blamed for new things everyday, it will retreat to itself and cut itself from society.
Yes, the Hindu Right has used the excuse of the TJ to further its hateful agenda. There have been instances of Muslim traders and milk sellers being boycotted economically either by Sangh people openly saying this or messages on WhatsApp forwards.
And there is a dilemma for Indian Muslims. Should they be represented by the recent influence among them of the TJ or should they let so-called Muslim leaders like Asaduddin Owaisi represent them or should they allow an old-style Progressive environment to flourish that enables intellectual youth like Aamir Aziz whom you too have admired and this used to be the case in the past.
Those Muslim who used to go for jawla to invite people to masajid or talk about Allah swt, victimizing them will lead to a forceful reaction.
So 'Jawla' is the word the Pakistani TJ uses ? Here, when they used to come to my house years ago ( on Thursdays ), they would say that are on 'Gasht'.
You may see Muslims picking up weapons and demanding independence.
A more less-conciliatory approach will develop among Muslims.
I don't think there is a desire among Muslims here for an armed rebellion. What I would suggest is for us to support the Progressive movements and leaders like Aam Aadmi Party and Kanhaiya Kumar ( actually I would like to see him as Prime Minister ).
RSS and BJP have no idea what they are creating. Too long have they assumed that Indian Muslims will remain pacified.
I agree to the extent that something big has to be done.
They have kind of discovered that an organisation such as tablighi jamat exist and it is a Muslim missionary group that spreads Islam though to Muslims mainly but also to non Muslims.
They were kind of shocked to see them amist them. Media report clearly shows no one knows about this group that don't go to dargahs and tie knots to fulfil theirs prayers.
So yeah the bad time would start now.
As I said in my previous post, the TJ was always there but not visible. Only in the last 15 or so years has it prominently come into awareness of Muslims though you are right that most non-Muslims didn't know of it.
boss wash your tongue on your way out!
Can you please respond with a sensible argument ?
Next step ban TJ in India
with RSS and all of Sangh Parivar.
halupridol, what Naofumi said, do we have a deal ?
We may disagree with them on many things but what i heard their commitment to spread Islam is exceptional.
The Libyan organization WICS ( World Islamic Call Society ) during Gaddafi's time was doing a better job at promoting Islam among Muslims and non-Muslims, and promoting dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims. The below text is from a Reuters
article from 2012 :
The World Islamic Call Society (WICS) sent staffers out to build mosques and provide humanitarian relief. It gave poor students a free university education, in religion, finance and computer science. Its missionaries traversed Africa preaching a moderate, Sufi-tinged version of Islam as an alternative to the strict Wahhabism that Saudi Arabia was spreading.
The Society won approval in high places. The Vatican counted it among its partners in Christian-Muslim dialogue and both Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict received its secretary general. Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, spiritual head of the world’s Anglicans, visited the campus in 2009 to deliver a lecture. The following year, the U.S. State Department noted approvingly how the Society had helped Filipino Christian migrant workers start a church in Libya.
The WICS’s focus was Africa, especially the large Muslim communities in West Africa and the Sahel region that Gaddafi considered Libya’s back yard. But it also built mosques and Islamic centers in Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Malta and the Netherlands. It contributed along with other Arab states to the construction of the huge mosque in Rome and the Central Mosque in London. It was also active in the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia.
“Libya was too small for him,” said former ambassador Saad El Shlmani, now Foreign Ministry spokesman. “He wanted to be the leader of all the Africans, of all the Muslims, of the whole world.”
In a propaganda coup for Gaddafi, Vatican Foreign Minister Jean-Louis Tauran visited Libya in 1994. He made the last leg of the journey from southern Tunisia to Tripoli by car because of the embargo on air traffic. Washington watched with concern as the Church’s relations with Tripoli improved, and tried to persuade it not to establish diplomatic relations, but Pope John Paul went ahead and recognized Libya in 1997.
In the 1990s, the Society expanded its work in Africa, stepping up its “Islamic convoys” of medicines, clothes and food as far down as southern Africa. It held conferences on education, culture and the links between African and Arab societies on the continent. It also funded Islamic radio stations in Togo, Benin, Chad, Cameroon, Mali and South Africa.
African leaders spoke out increasingly loudly against the U.N. embargo. South African President Nelson Mandela visited Tripoli in 1997 to thank Gaddafi for supporting the African National Congress during the apartheid years and to condemn the embargo. He also had to make the final leg of the trip by car.
The highlight of Gaddafi’s charm offensive came with a series of so-called “defiance tours” in convoys through West Africa. On the first of these road shows in 1997, the man who billed himself as “the Revolutionary Muslim” led huge prayer sessions in Niami, the capital of Niger, and in Kano in northern Nigeria. On his third swing through the region in 2000, he took in Niger, Burkina Faso, Ghana and Togo, “crossing more than 4,000 km through cities, villages, deserts, jungles, plains and modern towns,” as one Society report put it.
WICS staff were drafted in to help organize and support the visits.
Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams delivered a lecture on divine revelation to the Islamic Call College during a visit to Tripoli in 2009. His website describes the Society as “the world’s foremost Islamic benevolent organization with members from every corner of the globe.”
Among those who broke bread with the Society was World Council of Churches Secretary General Tveit, who lectured on the shared values of Christians and Muslims in Tripoli just one month before the uprising against Gaddafi broke out in February 2011. He said his organization would not have dealt with the WICS if it had known its dark side.
“In this particular situation, the WCC decided to work with the WICS because of its commitment to inter-religious dialogue and willingness to work with the WCC and its partners,” he said.
The firebrand U.S. black Muslim preacher Louis Farrakhan never hid his ties with Libya, but the uprising prompted even more disclosure than before. On March 31, 2011, Farrakhan defended “Brother Gaddafi” at a rare news conference and said Libya had lent the Nation of Islam $8 million over the years.
At his news conference, Farrakhan, a deputy chairman of the WIPL, said Gaddafi had also helped him take three tours to visit Muslim leaders in over 40 countries. “I’ve been all over the world because of that man,” he said.
The WIPL apparently lent a helping hand for Farrakhan’s pro-Gaddafi media blitz. Officials reviewing Society files showed Reuters a recently found confidential memo dated March 15, 2011, indicating the WIPL would pay for U.S. newspaper ads that Farrakhan placed to defend him. The Nation of Islam did not respond to requests for comment.
@Naofumi
