India's rich temples may open gold vaults for Narendra Modi

[indianBong]

Won't be surprising at all considering you guys are cryptoislamists.

naah bhai.. we are crypto-secular under the disguise of sanghis...

 

[Abingdonboy]

India's rich temples may open gold vaults for Narendra Modi

MUMBAI/NEW DELHI: The two-century-old Shree Siddhivinayak temple in Mumbai devoted to the Hindu elephant-headed god Ganesha bristles with close circuit cameras and is guarded by 65 security officers.

It is one of India's richest temples, having amassed 158 kg of gold offerings, worth some $67 million, and its heavily guarded vaults are strictly off limits.

India is the world's biggest consumer of gold and its ancient temples have collected billions of dollars in jewellery, bars and coins over the centuries - all hidden securely in vaults, some ancient and some modern.

A few years ago a treasure of gold worth an estimated $20 billion was discovered in secret subterranean vaults in the Sree Padmanabha Swamy temple in Kerala state.


Now, Prime Minister Narendra Modi wants to get his hands on this temple gold, estimated at about 3,000 tonnes, more than two thirds of the gold held in the US bullion depository at Fort Knox, Kentucky, to help tackle India's chronic trade imbalance. Modi's government is planning to launch a scheme in May that would encourage temples to deposit their gold with banks in return for interest payments.

The government would melt the gold and loan it to jewellers to meet an insatiable appetite for gold and reduce economically-crippling gold imports, which accounted for 28 percent of India's trade deficit in the year ending March 2013.

India's annual gold imports of 800 to 1,000 tonnes could be cut by a quarter if temples decided to participate in the scheme, say government and industry sources.

"We would be happy to deposit our gold to nationalized banks if the policy is beneficial, safe and earns good interest," said Narendra Murari Rane, chairman of the trust for the Siddhivinayak temple, portions of which are gold-plated.

But some Hindu devotees are not happy with the idea that their offerings could be melted down.
A Mumbai-based gold merchant, who said he and his father had donated around 200 kg of gold to Siddhivinayak and other temples over the years, said it would be a sin for the temples to earn interest on the gold offered to the gods.

"I make donations to God; not to any temple trust," the 52-year-old merchant said.

Modi would also like to convince Indians to open their family vaults, which hold an estimated 17,000 tonnes of gold in jewellery and other heirlooms.

But it will be much harder to convince Indian families, who sometimes have little faith in financial institutions, to break tradition and hand over gold passed down the generations.

India's love affair with gold spans centuries is rooted in the Hindu religion. One of the biggest annual buying seasons is the Diwali festival around October to November. Gold marriage dowries are widespread and with 70 percent of the population rural, gold is financial security.

INTEREST RATE KEY

Key to Modi's plan will be the interest rates offered for gold deposits.

A similar gold monetization plan launched in 1999 proved ineffective, in part because the interest rates offered on gold deposits were regarded by temple officials as too low.

Under that scheme India's top lender the State Bank of India offers 0.75 percent to 1 percent and only 15 tonnes of gold has been deposited so far.

Temple officials at Siddhivinayak and Shri Saibaba Sansthan in Shirdi, both in the western state of Maharashtra, say they expect interest rates in the new scheme to be much higher and so would consider participating.

The government plans to reveal rate details when it launches the new scheme. Siddhivinayak's Rane said he expected at least 5 percent interest on gold deposits.

Rajendra Jadhav, executive officer of the Shri Saibaba Sansthan temple trust, said rates will also be key to his temple's decision. He declined to say how much gold the temple, dedicated to a 19th century saint, had in its vaults.

A successful gold monetization programme could go a long way in helping India reduce its trade imbalance.

India raised the import duty on gold, the country's biggest non-essential import, and imposed other restrictions in 2013 after the current account deficit hit a record $190 billion.

If India can cut imports, that would pressure gold prices that fell to a four-month low last month before recovering. Lower gold prices will help India cut its import bill.However, a successful scheme could also expose the government to potential risks, if gold prices were to take off and depositors decided to withdraw at the same time.

"There is going to be a lock-in period under the new gold monetizing scheme," said Sudheesh Nambiath, an analyst at precious metals consultancy GFMS. "Banks will have to replenish the stocks with imports later (if temples withdraw gold)."

India's rich temples may open gold vaults for Narendra Modi - The Times of India

Think of the good this could do for India- billions spent on healthcare for the poor, improved infrastructure or education for the poorest would have a HUGE impact on India and its people.


I'm sure God would be far more content to see his followers/children/believers/whatever using such funds to improve the lives of all humans beings than having Gold sat in some vault in some temple doing absolutely no good for anyone.


Good actions should be judged above anything else.



I don't mean to offend anyone with my above comments, I am not aware of the nuances of the Hindu faith, I have just given my opinion as a fellow human being and as someone who comes from a relatively humanist outlook.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Last time we discussed this regarding the Padmanabhaswamy temple, BJP supporters were hell bent on the government not touching the temple properties to tackle economic issues. I'm waiting for their replies now.

Now there won't be a problem. A 'god' Modi is asking for it, so be it.

 

[Dragon Ball]

I am nobody to ask you how you spend your money. The question is once you have given money to a temple, do you have any say over how they spend it?

Temples don't propagate Hindu culture in the sense that Churches do, so if propagation of Hindusism is your intent, you'd be better off donating money to organizations that explicitly do so.

Actually, the first thing that GoI should do is ask money from Churches, particularly as its likely to be money from outside India.

Yes, I do have a say which is why I am voicing my protest at the very idea of handing over temple gold to the govt. Should enough people voice their displeasure, this event wont come to pass.

Temples have propagated Hindu culture always. There are scores of schools run by temple institutions so are cultural programs patronized by temples. It was only in the last 100 years or so that they lost their financial wherewithal to do it in any meaningful scale.

 

[hkdas]

As a Keralite Hindu we cant give a sure confirmation .
But materials in that temple has archeological value .So they cant melt it .But it can used as reserve.

if that gold is taken out from that vault then consider it gone. we won't get it back.

 

[Dragon Ball]

I am aware of your argument, but for the govt. to accept the gold from the Temple is an acknowledgement (in law) of the ownership rights of the temple.

Its like a bank deposit or your Fixed deposit. One your money is put into the bank, you can always worry that you will not get it back, but the financial system in India does not work that way.

IF the govt. provides a Bond for the gold deposited, then that bond can be reclaimed any time they want. We do have Laws in India.

If we cannot trust our own laws, then what can we trust ? Everything then is anyway lost.

We have been backstabbed by our own govts repeatedly for a long, long time, so no I do not trust the govt with the temple gold. Remember the same govt made it illegal to import gold or hoard gold. This same govt with its wrong policies which deprived people of their gold (the only way people had of securing their wealth) is now eyeing the gold that people even with their manifold hardships accumulated. I have no issues if ordinary people voluntarily deposit their personal gold with the govt. The temples though have no right to do so. That gold does not belong to the trusts.

Think of the good this could do for India- billions spent on healthcare for the poor, improved infrastructure or education for the poorest would have a HUGE impact on India and its people.


I'm sure God would be far more content to see his followers/children/believers/whatever using such funds to improve the lives of all humans beings than having Gold sat in some vault in some temple doing absolutely no good for anyone.


Good actions should be judged above anything else.



I don't mean to offend anyone with my above comments, I am not aware of the nuances of the Hindu faith, I have just given my opinion as a fellow human being and as someone who comes from a relatively humanist outlook.

Send a letter to the Golden temple to strip its wall of gold and give it to the govt. Charity beings at home.

 

[uparyupari]

We have been backstabbed by our own govts repeatedly for a long, long time, so no I do not trust the govt with the temple gold. Remember the same govt made it illegal to import gold or hoard gold. This same govt with its wrong policies which deprived people of their gold (the only way people had of securing their wealth) is now eyeing the gold that people even with their manifold hardships accumulated. I have no issues if ordinary people voluntarily deposit their personal gold with the govt. The temples though have no right to do so. That gold does not belong to the trusts.

We are trusting the govt. with the temple gold when we put Armed govt. guards in front of them, or when it appoint govt. ordered care takers.

The theft by them is WORSE and Many times more.

If they weigh and measure the gold and put it into Govt. Bond, it will be a lot safer than a vault from which it WILL be stolen.

A Trust does not own anything, its a "TRUST", a group of people we "trust" brought together to manage the affair.

I trust the govt. and the law and SC more than I would EVER trust a politician appointed temple trust.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Send a letter to the Golden temple to strip its wall of gold and give it to the govt. Charity beings at home.

A very fair point however it is quite different all the gold was donated to the temple by Ranjit Singh in the 1800s and it is only gold plated so there actually isn't that much gold at all. Donations made to Harminder Sahib (and all Gurdwaras) go towards the running costs of the Gurdwara and the provisioning of services to the poor (food and such). There is no vault in Harminder Sahib (or any Gurdwara) with vast amounts of gold just sat there, there is no such concept of storing wealth in that respect in Sikhism.

Again, I don't mean to judge or pass judgment this is just my opinion and perspective.

 

[Dragon Ball]

We are trusting the govt. with the temple gold when we put Armed govt. guards in front of them, or when it appoint govt. ordered care takers.

The theft by them is WORSE and Many times more.

If they weigh and measure the gold and put it into Govt. Bond, it will be a lot safer than a vault from which it WILL be stolen.

A Trust does not own anything, its a "TRUST", a group of people we "trust" brought together to manage the affair.

I trust the govt. and the law and SC more than I would EVER trust a politician appointed temple trust.

Nah, they intend to melt the gold. So first of it wont remain as an offering, a personal sentiment, but a block of sentimentless gold. Next, reserve bank has strange ideas of storing the gold in Bank of England or some bank abroad due to purity issues. If you know half the stories circulating around the world of what has happened to the gold that landed either with the British or the US Banks, you would not be so enthusiastic.

If there is theft in temples, then we just have to make provisions to make it more secure. The govt is not the way to go.

A very fair point however it is quite different all the gold was donated to the temple by Ranjit Singh in the 1800s and it is only gold plated so there actually isn't that much gold at all. Donations made to Harminder Sahib (and all Gurdwaras) go towards the running costs of the Gurdwara and the provisioning of services to the poor (food and such). There is no vault in Harminder Sahib (or any Gurdwara) with vast amounts of gold just sat there, there is no such concept of storing wealth in that respect in Sikhism.

Again, I don't mean to judge or pass judgment this is just my opinion and perspective.

Does not matter. Every little bit of gold helps. Likewise Hindu temples too feed hundreds of thousands of people who visit the temples every day. This they do even when they do not have control over their own finances and the govt takes the lion share of the money from the Hindu temples for secular purposes unlike how churches, mosques, gurudwara's finances are not touched. Hindu temples do have a concept of storing wealth for the propagation of dharma.

 

[uparyupari]

Nah, they intend to melt the gold. So first of it wont remain as an offering, a personal sentiment, but a block of sentimentless gold. Next, reserve bank has strange ideas of storing the gold in Bank of England or some bank abroad due to purity issues. If you know half the stories circulating around the world of what has happened to the gold that landed either with the British or the US Banks, you would not be so enthusiastic.

If there is theft in temples, then we just have to make provisions to make it more secure. The govt is not the way to go.

Once you offer the Gold to GOD, it is NO LONGER YOURS. So any sentiment attached to it is wrong.

I have never heard of the RBI storing Indian gold in the Bank of England. Can you provide any link ?

Gold Bond is a pragmatic way forward. The Interest gained on the gold can be used for temple upgrades and Hindu welfare. Thought that might be a piped dream.

keeping the gold in vaults is as useless as keeping the gold in Mines, i.e. not mining them. Only the vaults are More expensive to build and maintain and guard.

 

[Dragon Ball]

Once you offer the Gold to GOD, it is NO LONGER YOURS. So any sentiment attached to it is wrong.

I have never heard of the RBI storing Indian gold in the Bank of England. Can you provide any link ?

Gold Bond is a pragmatic way forward. The Interest gained on the gold can be used for temple upgrades and Hindu welfare. Thought that might be a piped dream.

keeping the gold in vaults is as useless as keeping the gold in Mines, i.e. not mining them. Only the vaults are More expensive to build and maintain and guard.

No it is not useless as keeping it in gold mines. Let Hindus get control of their own temples first. Then they can decide what has to be done of that gold. When and if the world was to move to gold standard or a basket of currencies with one of the currency being gold, then it would be of astronomical value. Until then it is better to be hawkish and see to it that the govt (any govt) does not siphon it off for its profligacy and populism.

I am having issues with my internet connection, half the time defence.pk does not open and now google is not. I will get you the link once google is up.

 

[gslv]

Think of the good this could do for India- billions spent on healthcare for the poor, improved infrastructure or education for the poorest would have a HUGE impact on India and its people.


I'm sure God would be far more content to see his followers/children/believers/whatever using such funds to improve the lives of all humans beings than having Gold sat in some vault in some temple doing absolutely no good for anyone.


Good actions should be judged above anything else.



I don't mean to offend anyone with my above comments, I am not aware of the nuances of the Hindu faith, I have just given my opinion as a fellow human being and as someone who comes from a relatively humanist outlook.

The point is not whether god will be happy or not, the point is legality, do temple trustees have power over the gold of the god and its high time govt should leave temple to the Hindus, the successive govt being coward couldn't even rage a illegally built mosques and churches and dread the thought of taking over control of the same. I understand that you have good intentions but asking a single faith to lift the burden of the whole nation is different. Regards.

 

[Darmashkian]

The point is not whether god will be happy or not, the point is legality, do temple trustees have power over the gold of the god and its high time govt should leave temple to the Hindus, the successive govt being coward couldn't even rage a illegally built mosques and churches and dread the thought of taking over control of the same. I understand that you have good intentions but asking a single faith to lift the burden of the whole nation is different. Regards.

Da$@ right, if the govt. can leave the church,mosque & gurudwara alone!! Why not the same with the mandir!!

& should temple trustees have any power over the gold that was given by devotees out of devotion/love to God!

Also many of these missionaries & Wahaabis too have a lot of money stored up in their churches, mosques & trusts.. Why isn't this scheme extended to them or even the Jains,Buddhists & Sikhs!!

 

[Dragon Ball]

Once you offer the Gold to GOD, it is NO LONGER YOURS. So any sentiment attached to it is wrong.

I have never heard of the RBI storing Indian gold in the Bank of England. Can you provide any link ?

Gold Bond is a pragmatic way forward. The Interest gained on the gold can be used for temple upgrades and Hindu welfare. Thought that might be a piped dream.

keeping the gold in vaults is as useless as keeping the gold in Mines, i.e. not mining them. Only the vaults are More expensive to build and maintain and guard.

By the way, the govt never brought home the 200 tons of gold it purchased from the IMF. It is still in Bank of England.

RBI gets HC notice to explain gold deposits with Bank of England

Once you offer the Gold to GOD, it is NO LONGER YOURS. So any sentiment attached to it is wrong.

I have never heard of the RBI storing Indian gold in the Bank of England. Can you provide any link ?

Gold Bond is a pragmatic way forward. The Interest gained on the gold can be used for temple upgrades and Hindu welfare. Thought that might be a piped dream.

keeping the gold in vaults is as useless as keeping the gold in Mines, i.e. not mining them. Only the vaults are More expensive to build and maintain and guard.

Capital Mind – RBI Will Sell Gold in India, Buy Gold Abroad, Ease Supply

RBI Will Sell Gold in India, Buy Gold Abroad, Ease Supply
With the large duty on Gold imports, and very large gold requirements in an inflationary economy, the issue of “how can we reduce Gold imports” has driven RBI to an interesting solution.

Economic Times reports that RBI will swap Gold it owns in India for Gold deliverable in London. The official reason is that the Gold is sought to be replaced with that of a purer variety.

Here’s how the proposed swap scheme between RBI and banks would work: RBI will give delivery of gold from its Nagpur vault to banks in India while taking delivery of gold from banks in London.

But the gold that RBI would give to banks in India could be of a slightly inferior quality compared with the ‘London deliverable’ purer gold that it would receive from banks in London. The banks will deposit the gold in London in RBI’s account with Bank of England.

But what does this swap really do?

Ease Gold Supply in India Without Hitting CAD
Since RBI will sell gold in India to Banks who can sell onward to jewellers, the supply issues in India will ease. Currently, Banks import Gold for jewellers, who have to pay upfront, and then they can only reimport another batch if 20% of the last batch has been exported. And then, there’s a 10% duty on imported gold.

If the RBI were to swap, for instance, 10% of it’s gold, that’s an additional 50 tons of gold (1/10th of its holding) that would be 50 tons less that was imported.

In context, that’s about a month’s requirement of imports.

Why will it not impact the CAD?

Effectively, Swaps Dollars for Rupees, Contracts Money Supply
When RBI buys gold in India it will receive rupees. The purchase in London will be paid for in Dollars. Those dollars are already owned by the RBI as forex reserves. So effectively, the RBI will sell dollars it owns and the rupees it receives will go out of circulation.

In that context, the quantum of gold sold will impact money supply, a little bit. India owns $21 billion of gold, worth about Rs. 120,000 cr. (1.2 trillion), so a 10% contraction is about Rs. 12,000 cr.

A reduction of money supply by 12,000 cr. is not a big deal, and can be replenished easily; the RBI routinely buys dollars by printing rupees anyhow, and it can do an OMO auction to buy bonds.

Capital Mind View
This is good for Gold companies, but only if the quantum is known. If the RBI does this for tiny amounts, it’s insignificant. If it swaps more than 50 tons, it will help ease supply pressure in the next 6 months.

In any case we expect a graded withdrawal of limits on gold imports and the import duty over the next year. In fact, we expect an announcement of the process in the budget, followed by RBI in it’s next Policy statement in August.

If you ask us about how it impacts markets, then our answer in the current situation is: everything will impact the market positively nowadays. There is no news that can even be considered remotely negative. So, that.

 

[uparyupari]

No it is not useless as keeping it in gold mines. Let Hindus get control of their own temples first. Then they can decide what has to be done of that gold. When and if the world was to move to gold standard or a basket of currencies with one of the currency being gold, then it would be of astronomical value. Until then it is better to be hawkish and see to it that the govt (any govt) does not siphon it off for its profligacy and populism.

I am having issues with my internet connection, half the time defence.pk does not open and now google is not. I will get you the link once google is up.

They are two separate issue, let us not mix them up.

Hindus need to wrestle back control of our Temples from the govt. and have the right to constitute our own board.

Monetizing temple gold and using it for public welfare and at the same time, the gold remains with the temple is a beautiful solution to keeping the gold safe.

I fail to understand the problem of gold back currency. How does it mater if the gold is behind a vault in a temple or a vault in RBI ? The vault in RBI is a lot safer. IF you want we can discuss how to make it more safe, or how to ensure the Hindus retain their control over the gold. But you cannot defy the economic sense of bringing back this gold into circulation.

I am against E-Gold, but as long as the govt. of India has the equivalent of that real gold in their reserve, how is it unsafe ? Keeping it in a vault that can be and will be robbed is more unsafe.

No problem with the link. Take you time.