India's Muslim politics is shifting course amid Hindu majoritarianism

[achhu]

As usual you are writting rubbish.

Shivaji Maharaj alwasy had Royal blood hailing his ancestory from Sisodiya Rajput clan of Rajsthan. Shivaji was born as Kshatriya. His Kshatriya ancestry was Babaji Bhosale-Maloji Bhosale- Shahaji Bhosale- Shiavji Bhosale.

The orthodox brahmins of Maharashtra opposed Shivaji's coronation because of his sin of " Brahmin hatya" or "brahmin wadh". (killing a brahmin)

Shivaji had killed lawyer of Sultan of Bijapur in his attack on Afjal Khan. This lawyer was Krishnaji Bhaskar who was Brahmin.

Shivaji was asked to perform any shuddhi at Kashi as ShriRam did after killing Rawan(A brahmin).

But shivaji REFUSED and said that a person who is serving enemy who is against his own religion/culture his Brahmin only by his birth not by Karma. Hence the killing of Bhaskar cannot be called Brahmin-wadh.

It is due to this lack of Suddhi ritual that the orthodox Brahmins refused to do the Coronation.

To settle this, Shivaji approched the most respect of all Brahmins, Goga Bhatt in Varanasi and under his instructions DID the Suddhi ritual.

After which he was Cornonated by Goga Bhatt.

pandit ji
you are talking nonsense ,
krishna ji bhaskar was never killed by shiva ji . bhaskar survived the attack on afzal khan .
read history , brahmins refused for performing rituals of coronation as king for shivaji because they considered marathas as shudra .

 

[crankthatskunk]

I have said on other threads that India doesn't require a Muslim party. India needs progressive leaders who happen to be Muslim. And neither Owaisi is progressive nor is this new party AIUDF nor the IUML nor another called SDPI.

Indian Muslims need to support young but old-styled left-wing progressive intellectuals and activists among them like Shehla Rashid and Umar Khalid.

Years ago I was a student in a computer institute and one of my colleagues was named Jamal Abdul Nasser named after the great Egyptian leader. That is the path for the Indian Muslims to follow. And not name their son after say Syed Qutb or the Indian Tablighi Jamaat chief Maulana Saad.



Hindutvadi, not Hindu. But yes you are correct there. I quote Shashi Tharoor who is a leader of the Congress party :

When some one "Progressive" with your own definition appears among Muslims.
You will say he/she or the party they formed is not "Progressive" enough.

Who are you trying to fool !!

 

[Cliftonite]

As usual you are writting rubbish.

Shivaji Maharaj alwasy had Royal blood hailing his ancestory from Sisodiya Rajput clan of Rajsthan. Shivaji was born as Kshatriya. His Kshatriya ancestry was Babaji Bhosale-Maloji Bhosale- Shahaji Bhosale- Shiavji Bhosale.

The orthodox brahmins of Maharashtra opposed Shivaji's coronation because of his sin of " Brahmin hatya" or "brahmin wadh". (killing a brahmin)

Shivaji had killed lawyer of Sultan of Bijapur in his attack on Afjal Khan. This lawyer was Krishnaji Bhaskar who was Brahmin.

Shivaji was asked to perform any shuddhi at Kashi as ShriRam did after killing Rawan(A brahmin).

But shivaji REFUSED and said that a person who is serving enemy who is against his own religion/culture his Brahmin only by his birth not by Karma. Hence the killing of Bhaskar cannot be called Brahmin-wadh.

It is due to this lack of Suddhi ritual that the orthodox Brahmins refused to do the Coronation.

To settle this, Shivaji approched the most respect of all Brahmins, Goga Bhatt in Varanasi and under his instructions DID the Suddhi ritual.

After which he was Cornonated by Goga Bhatt.

I feel sorry for Indians like you so obsessed over lineage.

 

[Andhadhun]

pandit ji
you are talking nonsense ,
krishna ji bhaskar was never killed by shiva ji . bhaskar survived the attack on afzal khan .
read history , brahmins refused for performing rituals of coronation as king for shivaji because they considered marathas as shudra .

RUBBISH as usual.

Krishna Bhaskar Kulkarni was present in the meeting with Afzal Khan, along with Shivaji's counsel Gopinath Panth.

When Shivaji killed Afzal Khan, Krishna Bhaskar attacked Shivaji and injured him slightly. This was the ONLY scare Shivaji had. Gopinath Path then handed over the Legendry sword "Bhavani" to shivaji and Shivaji offered krishna bhaskar safe return if he would stop the attack. Krishna Bhaskar refused and was killed by Shijvaji.

This has been spelled out in first officially commissioned biography of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj. "ShivBharata" written by Brahmins themselves.

Shivaji was a shudra because his UPANAYANAM was never performed as a ki and hence had lost his Kshtriya status. Those without Upanayanam is a shudra.

Shivaji's Upanayanam was conducted BEFORE his coronation.

Finally the Coronation itself was the idea of Gaga Bhatt (one who conducted the coronation). THIS is what he said to Shivaji and I quote verbatim, (in English).

" The forms of Kshatriya duty have been utterly extinguished during the Kali Yuga. The earth is overrun with Yavanas ( Mahomedans ) who have usurped the thrones of kings. No spark of valour is left in the warriors of the Solar or the Lunar race. Sacrifices are stopped ; forms of duty forgotten ; the Brahman Dharma eclipsed ; the great shrines have lost their expiatory virtue. It is only you who have put forth great valour, defeated the Mahomedan sultans, quieted Aurangzeb, vanquished his pro-consuls, won a great kingdom, and maintained in your power a hundred thousand cavalry, three hundred and sixty forts, and great wealth and possessions. This being so, you are yet without a consecrated throne. It is, therefore, my wish and the wish of many other Hindus to crown you king and have you saluted as a king of the royal umbrella by other rulers. Without a formal crowning a ruling king has no honour. By getting yourself formally crowned, you will complete the humiliation of Aurangzeb and the other sultans. Do you, therefore, indulge us in this our desire ? "

I feel sorry for Indians like you so obsessed over lineage.

I can understand your pain, since you don't have any lineage to boast of.

 

[achhu]

Not ten really but I agree that progressive activism and thought among Muslims in the current world has reduced a lot. There used to be entire, socialist Muslim-majority countries earlier.

But things are not beyond recovery even if there is a single Muslim socialist. In India there are youth Muslim socialists like Shehla Rashid and older ones like MY Tarigami. This ties in with a resurgence of socialist thought in India. In Pakistan there is the "Leather jacket girl" Arooj Aurangzeb and others like the music band Laal. Even Malala Yousafzai. In Afghanistan there is the SPA ( Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ) despite the presence of the Taliban. In Bangladesh I don't know ( I will call @Bilal9 and @DalalErMaNodi ) but I do know that there is some people-to-people contact with North Korea. In Syria the socialist Baath movement that forms the government has been fighting the nine-year-old international war within its territory to retain the Baath leadership of the country. The Iraqi Baathists too will be fighting to regain Baathist leadership of Iraq or at least to retain an influential position. In Palestine there is the PLO. In Libya there still are the Greens who want to bring back the Jamahiriya. Even in far-flung Venezuela some of the Muslim emigrants got into leftist activism. I quote about a Muslim minister, Tareck El Aissami, in Venezuela's socialist government :

There are socialists in Turkey and various parts of Africa ( other than Libya ). I am sure there are Muslim socialists in Russia too. In Europe too there will be, like the writer and historian Tariq Ali.



Well, these types are outwardly Muslim, fanatically doing the prayer and ritual part and the dress code, but are not very intellectual, are not very aware of the various progressives laws in Islam regarding things that make Islam Islam. Things like laws of inheritance and marriage. I don't consider such ones as truly Muslim. They are embarrassments. They form the agents and saboteurs who do the work of Western intelligence agencies who want to subvert Muslim-majority progressive countries or movements.

Don't forget old generation of indo Pakistani socialists like faiz, sahir Ludhianavi, majrooh sultanpuri, kaji NAZRUL islam . Habib jalib .

 

[jamahir]

When some one "Progressive" with your own definition appears among Muslims.
You will say he/she or the party they formed is not "Progressive" enough.

Who are you trying to fool !!

Can you give an example please ?

 

[achhu]

RUBBISH as usual.

Krishna Bhaskar Kulkarni was present in the meeting with Afzal Khan, along with Shivaji's counsel Gopinath Panth.

When Shivaji killed Afzal Khan, Krishna Bhaskar attacked Shivaji and injured him slightly. This was the ONLY scare Shivaji had. Gopinath Path then handed over the Legendry sword "Bhavani" to shivaji and Shivaji offered krishna bhaskar safe return if he would stop the attack. Krishna Bhaskar refused and was killed by Shijvaji.

This has been spelled out in first officially commissioned biography of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj. "ShivBharata" written by Brahmins themselves.

Shivaji was a shudra because his UPANAYANAM was never performed as a ki and hence had lost his Kshtriya status. Those without Upanayanam is a shudra.

Shivaji's Upanayanam was conducted BEFORE his coronation.

Finally the Coronation itself was the idea of Gaga Bhatt (one who conducted the coronation). THIS is what he said to Shivaji and I quote verbatim, (in English).

" The forms of Kshatriya duty have been utterly extinguished during the Kali Yuga. The earth is overrun with Yavanas ( Mahomedans ) who have usurped the thrones of kings. No spark of valour is left in the warriors of the Solar or the Lunar race. Sacrifices are stopped ; forms of duty forgotten ; the Brahman Dharma eclipsed ; the great shrines have lost their expiatory virtue. It is only you who have put forth great valour, defeated the Mahomedan sultans, quieted Aurangzeb, vanquished his pro-consuls, won a great kingdom, and maintained in your power a hundred thousand cavalry, three hundred and sixty forts, and great wealth and possessions. This being so, you are yet without a consecrated throne. It is, therefore, my wish and the wish of many other Hindus to crown you king and have you saluted as a king of the royal umbrella by other rulers. Without a formal crowning a ruling king has no honour. By getting yourself formally crowned, you will complete the humiliation of Aurangzeb and the other sultans. Do you, therefore, indulge us in this our desire ? "


I can understand your pain, since you don't have any lineage to boast of.

Krishna ji bhaskar was already compromised for Maratha cause, he took to heels on the first sight of shivaji attacking afjal by khanjar .
It was seyed banda who rushed to attack shivaji by sword after first attack his hand was cut by body guard .

 

[Andhadhun]

Krishna ji bhaskar was already compromised for Maratha cause, he took to heels on the first sight of shivaji attacking afjal by khanjar .
It was seyed banda who rushed to attack shivaji by sword after first attack his hand was cut by body guard .

WRONG.

THIS is what happend.

A meeting was arranged between Shivaji and Afzal Khan at a shamiyana at the foothills of Pratapgad. It was agreed that the two would meet unarmed, but would bring ten personal bodyguards each. Nine of these guards would remain ‘one arrow-shot’ away from the pair, while a single bodyguard would wait outside the tent.

As the two men entered the tent, the 7′ tall Khan embraced Shivaji, swiftly drew his hidden dagger and stabbed Shivaji in the back. The dagger was deflected by his armour, and Shivaji responded by disembowelling the Khan with a single stroke of his wagh nakhi.

Khan rushed outside shouting for help, and was defended by Krishanaji Bhaskar Kulkarni, his emissary, who was himself then killed by Shivaji. Thereupon Afzal Khan’s bodyguard Sayyed Banda attacked Shivaji with swords but Jiva Mahala, Shivaji’s personal bodyguard fatally struck him down, cutting off one of Sayyed Banda’s hands with a Dandpatta.

This event is remembered in a Marathi idiom: Hota Jiva Mhanun Vachala Shiva – ‘Because there was Jiva, Shiva lived’.

 

[Cliftonite]

I can understand your pain, since you don't have any lineage to boast of.

Hmmm. It's not that. I have a lineage. I don't feel the need to brag about it.

I also have another thing- your land that my people took. Where your blue headed lords used to walk. It's in our control now. And you're never getting it back.

I also have a future where my people will be the largest religion in the world. We are spread in 52 countries and growing. You are limited to just one country. Never forget that my Brahmin friend.

 

[Andhadhun]

Hmmm. It's not that. I have a lineage. I don't feel the need to brag about it.

I also have another thing- your land that my people took. Where your blue headed lords used to walk. It's in our control now. And you're never getting it back.

I also have a future where my people will be the largest religion in the world. We are spread in 52 countries and growing. You are limited to just one country. Never forget that my Brahmin friend.

LOL. You just claimed Lineage after pitying me for mention it for Emperor Shivaji

Truly pathetic.

Your claims is as hollow as your history.

Today islam is under fire in the US, Europe, China and India. China has jailed "your people", forbidden the teaching of quran, or even praying 5 times a day and 52 countries stay silent and suck china's b@lls. While my 1 country has gained more ground, reputation and followers in the last 75 years.

But feel free to forget this because unlike you, I couldn't care less.

 

[itsanufy]

I agree that in a secular country no one religious community should be allowed to dominate the discourse, whether at state level or country level.

But I want to ask you what you meant by this : "very soon it will come in mainstream of indian states ."



I have heard a lot about this : "Muslim appeasement". I don't know what it is. Can you please explain ?

And how did they ignore Hindus ?



A true Muslim is automatically a socialist because True Islam is an older socialist movement. Mullah movements like the Deoband school, the Taliban and the FSA do not represent Islam. You can read this thread of mine, an article by the Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha, about socialist activism among modern Muslims ( 1900s onward ) from Russia to Africa to South Asia to Southeast Asia. And you should also read this thread of mine, an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in the marriage.

Islam is not another form of prayer, other ritual and dress code ( which things are sadly the defining things for many Muslims now ) but provides the method to effect a progressive welfare state. I have read only a few pages of an English translation of the Quran but as far as I know there is no mention of any specific procedure for prayer ( that we see in mosques now ). Such detail procedure is not presented in detail in the same way the Quran details the method for property inheritance and divorce.

Lastly, I myself have made so many posts declaring myself to be a communist yet am comfortable being a Muslim.



My view on The Great One which seems to mirror Arfa's view :

Views such as mine would not have been rare during the Islamic Golden Age.

But doesn't it violates the core principle of communism that religion shouldn't be a part of identity?

 

[achhu]

Hmmm. It's not that. I have a lineage. I don't feel the need to brag about it.

I also have another thing- your land that my people took. Where your blue headed lords used to walk. It's in our control now. And you're never getting it back.

I also have a future where my people will be the largest religion in the world. We are spread in 52 countries and growing. You are limited to just one country. Never forget that my Brahmin friend.

Masihis are spread in all continents, once upon a time they ruled whole world, they also have lineage. Some masihis live in Pakistan . Sun never set in their rule when they were ruling you .

 

[Cliftonite]

LOL. You just claimed Lineage after pitying me for mention it for Emperor Shivaji

Truly pathetic.

Your claims is as hollow as your history.

Today islam is under fire in the US, Europe, China and India. China has jailed "your people", forbidden the teaching of quran, or even praying 5 times a day and 52 countries stay silent and suck china's b@lls. While my 1 country has gained more ground, reputation and followers in the last 75 years.

But feel free to forget this because unlike you, I couldn't care less.

Don't care. I'm just reminding you. My people also have rich countries like Turkey, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and UAE. Much much much richer than your shithole.

Tensions may come and go. But you know and I know that we are not going anywhere. That 2 billion Muslims are not going anywhere. By 2050, my people will be 10-15% of Europe's population as well.

You guys go crazy over one Kamala Harris? We have Muslim parliamentarians in Germany, Russia, US ,UK, Sweden, France, Israel and Brazil.

Best believe Islam is going nowhere. Even in your wettest dreams will you never have the power we have. Negative press or positive press we matter to the world. We know how to make our voice heard.India can be invaded by China and no one would really care.

Also what's that other country you guys are in? Tiny little Nepal. Lol what a joke. Go do havan for your pink elephant lord now.

Masihis are spread in all continents, once upon a time they ruled whole world, they also have lineage. Some masihis live in Pakistan . Sun never set in their rule when they were ruling you .

Masihis and Muslims have real power in the world.

Hindus are synonymous with India and don't matter anywhere else.

Erdogan, Khomeini, MBS can make an impact with their statements. China can sit on your tail and the world doesn't give a damn. That's how pathetic you Sanatanis are.

 

[jamahir]

But doesn't it violates the core principle of communism that religion shouldn't be a part of identity?

The core principles of Communism are other things like classless society, abolishment of State, abolishment of the traditional money system, abolishment of private means of production and it becoming a commons and land becoming a commons.

As one proceeds towards True Communism there is a tendency to slowly stop being religious in the outward "pious" ritual sense ( prayer, dress code etc ) but whether or not a communist believes in God is left to him. In fact, since True Communism calls for making easy the obtaining of the material needs of a person, without needless and very avoidable struggle, the person has more time to contemplate about God, Ecology and Nature, making him more calm, gentle and spiritual in the true sense. Communism calls for harmony.

My own views on God / Nature are in post# 51 on page 4.

 

[Andhadhun]

Don't care. I'm just reminding you. My people also have rich countries like Turkey, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and UAE. Much much much richer than your shithole.

Tensions may come and go. But you know and I know that we are not going anywhere. That 2 billion Muslims are not going anywhere. By 2050, my people will be 10-15% of Europe's population as well.

You guys go crazy over one Kamala Harris? We have Muslim parliamentarians in Germany, Russia, US ,UK, Sweden, France, Israel and Brazil.

Best believe Islam is going nowhere. Even in your wettest dreams will you never have the power we have. Negative press or positive press we matter to the world. We know how to make our voice heard.India can be invaded by China and no one would really care.

Also what's that other country you guys are in? Tiny little Nepal. Lol what a joke. Go do havan for your pink elephant lord now.

Masihis and Muslims have real power in the world.

Hindus are synonymous with India and don't matter anywhere else.

Erdogan, Khomeini, MBS can make an impact with their statements. China can sit on your tail and the world doesn't give a damn. That's how pathetic you Sanatanis are.

52 muslim country under the foot of CHINA Is all one needs to see to understand the status of islam and muslims in this world.

EVERYTHING else is just noise.