Indian writers guilty of double standards when it comes to dissent: Taslima Nasrin

[Joe Shearer]

Why don't you start by showing us the way ?

You can ask your pakistani friends mods to open up this forum so that it matches the standards you set for others. ...... lets say the right to talk about muhammed or islam or balochistan etc ?

I now feel certain you will take a strong moral stand for it. Correct ?[/quote]

No, I shan't.

It meets my standards perfectly. I don't feel the need to talk about Hazrat Mohammed, but I have been critical of Islam, and here I am. So anyone who has a genuine point to make is free to make that point on PDF. Those going about snouting around for trouble get trouble.

Baluchistan figures more often than I like.

So, Master Troll, what's your point?

This is a wonderful argument.

So I assume you have no problems with lynching and riots while the society corrects itself ?

After all it would be a pity to have such a weak faith in the society that you need Laws to control it rather than let it correct itself.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

No, I shan't.

It meets my standards perfectly. I don't feel the need to talk about Hazrat Mohammed, but I have been critical of Islam, and here I am. So anyone who has a genuine point to make is free to make that point on PDF. Those going about snouting around for trouble get trouble.

Baluchistan figures more often than I like.

So, Master Troll, what's your point?

There may be some who will be shocked to see you do not practice what you preach ............ then again, maybe they expect such such behaviour from you.

Here you are restricting free speech under the guise of "snooting for trouble". Whatever happened to "Even an individual, one individual, deserves the right to be heard"

How deliciously Ironic in a thread dedicated to "double standards"


Its a crying shame that your standard for free speech on pdf is not as high, as what you demand outside it. LOL.

 

[scorpionx]

Freedom of speech must be absolute but not freedom of action - if sentiment of people are hurt then they should use the same freedom of speech provided to them to defend their faith and hurt them back.This is how a mature society functions

I am afraid they do not. Every country in the West limits freedom of speech by laws to protect the sensibilities of an individual or a group for belonging or not belonging to an ethnic group, religion, sex or sexual orientation.

For example, let us see how, France, one of the oldest, liberal democracies reacted when it found itself bewildered between the core principles of essential liberties that it was constitutionally founded upon and the strange new challenges it faced. There might be some strange lessons we can borrow from the French, before we radically turn towards a militant version of liberalism where everybody has the right to speak/write/show anything.

In 1881, the French came up with a legal framework (Loi sur la liberté de la presse du 29 juillet 1881) to regulate the publications and advertisement in public places. Right after WW II, this law came with some significant amendments. Articles were introduced by which anyone inciting others to discriminate or insult an individual or a group on the basis of religion, ethnicity, sex or sexual orientation became subjected to rigorous imprisonment with/without fine. The French, after the WW II felt it utterly necessary to come up with a stringent law that would protect the battered sentiments of a community who became on the verge of extinct by a fanatical maniac, whose brilliant orations were full of racial contempt and provocations against the community. Those orations enjoyed full freedom of speech, intoxicated an entire nation and rest we all are aware of.

The French, in defiance to their quest for modernity and individual liberty banned a number of films which were deemed to be impertinent to Christianity. Newspaper articles faced challenges in court and later lost for condemning the Catholic Church for abetting the realization of Auschwitz. Ultimately, the writer had to appeal to European court of human rights and prove himself innocent.Very recently and quite ironically, Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, the stand up comedian was arrested for merely sympathizing with a terrorist on Facebook. People argued, if Charlie Hedbo enjoyed its own freedom of speech, what error M’bala had commit?

If France was right in allowing Charlie Hedbo to publish provocative cartoons, it is more wrong in arresting M’bala. If they are right in arresting a terrorist sympathizer, they were wrong in giving Hedbo a free hand. It means, democracies, much older and mature than ours too are struggling these days to find a convenient answer i.e. liberalism must be the fundamental principle of a civilized society but to what extent? I am afraid, your previous assertion to let the society correct itself has not been taken up by the western democracies. They are equally perplexed, as we are.

 

[Spectre]

I am afraid they do not. Every country limits freedom of speech by laws to protect the sensibilities of an individual or a group for belonging or not belonging to an ethnic group, religion, sex or sexual orientation.

For example, let us see how, France, one of the oldest, liberal democracies reacted when it found itself bewildered between the core principles of essential liberties that it was constitutionally founded upon and the strange new challenges it faced. There might be some strange lessons we can borrow from the French, before we radically turn towards a militant version of liberalism where everybody has the right to speak/write/show anything.

In 1881, the French came up with a legal framework (Loi sur la liberté de la presse du 29 juillet 1881) to regulate the publications and advertisement in public places. Right after WW II, this law came with some significant amendments. Articles were introduced by which anyone inciting others to discriminate or insult an individual or a group on the basis of religion, ethnicity, sex or sexual orientation became subjected to rigorous imprisonment with/without fine. The French, after the WW II felt it utterly necessary to come up with a stringent law that would protect the battered sentiments of a community who became on the verge of extinct by a fanatical maniac, whose brilliant orations were full of racial contempt and provocations against the community. Those orations enjoyed full freedom of speech, intoxicated an entire nation and rest we all are aware of.

The French, in defiance to their quest for modernity and individual liberty banned a number of films which were deemed to be impertinent to Christianity. Newspaper articles faced challenges in court and later lost for condemning the Catholic Church for abetting the realization of Auschwitz. Ultimately, he had to appeal to European court of human rights and prove himself innocent.Very recently and quite ironically, Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, the stand up comedian was arrested for merely sympathizing with a terrorist on Facebook. People argued, if Charlie Hedbo enjoyed its own freedom of speech, what error M’bala had commit?

If France was right in allowing Charlie Hedbo to publish provocative cartoons, it is more wrong in arresting M’bala. If they are right in arresting a terrorist sympathizer, they were wrong in giving Hedbo a free hand. It means, democracies, much older and mature than ours too are struggling these days to find a convenient answer i.e. liberalism must be the fundamental principle of a civilized society but to what extent? I am afraid, your previous assertion to let the society correct itself has not been taken up the western democracies. They are equally perplexed, as we are.

The problem is due to influx of migrant who are not familiar with the ethos of the liberalism. This could be corrected with time but some refuse to mix in and assimilate hence the current issues faced by relatively progressive societies such as France.

I do concede that my assertions were idealistic but that doesn't mean they couldn't be pursued. It would be interesting to see how a society having modernist and liberal values at core functioned in isolation over a prolonged period but in absence of such empirical evidence and declining population in most European Countries which makes immigration necessary there are no quick and easy answers. One approach could be thorough screening based on acceptance of values of these societies but that would demand immense resources.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There may be some who will be shocked to see you do not practice what you preach ............ then again, maybe they expect such such behaviour from you.

A random distribution? Binomial? Whatever. Who cares? Other than those soothing their wounded ego.

Here you are restricting free speech under the guise of "snooting for trouble". Whatever happened to "Even an individual, one individual, deserves the right to be heard"

Nothing happened to it.

This is not real life. This is an on-line forum. It has its rules, just like a private members-only club has rules. Rules that may be stricter than in real life.

How deliciously Ironic in a thread dedicated to "double standards"


Its a crying shame that your standard for free speech on pdf is not as high, as what you demand outside it. LOL.

Heh.

A nice way to get around the fact that where it matters, you and your kind have no time for free speech. But suddenly, in a restricted atmosphere, you find it fiercely necessary. If you really crave the kind of latitude that you might get in real life, and even more, try PTH.

Each forum has its own rules. Why should these be homogenised in order to prove an argument for you?

 

[Mike_Brando]

The reason is simple.

Diss the bhakt and you risk a whacking or a face full of ink at worst.

Diss the Islamist and you run the very real risk of body parts being separated from torso.

Sometimes hands. Sometimes tongues. Other times the head.

Being a motormouth suddenly loses attraction very precipitously then .....

Understandably so.

Doc,i must admit that you have got a great sense of humor!!

 

[Mamsalaphala]

A random distribution? Binomial? Whatever. Who cares? Other than those soothing their wounded ego.

This is not real life. This is an on-line forum. It has its rules, just like a private members-only club has rules. Rules that may be stricter than in real life.

A nice way to get around the fact that where it matters, you and your kind have no time for free speech. But suddenly, in a restricted atmosphere, you find it fiercely necessary. If you really crave the kind of latitude that you might get in real life, and even more, try PTH.

Each forum has its own rules. Why should these be homogenised in order to prove an argument for you?

So in short you have admitted to having double standards.

Your justification for having them is irrelevant, but it does diminish your moral standing when preach to others about it

If you had any shame you would have stopped preaching, but we both know that score, don't we ?

Free speech is a principle, and once you really adopt that principle, it is to be applied equally everywhere, otherwise it is know as Hypocrisy. ...... in real life and in forum life.


I do not required agreeable rules to argue my point, never needed it. Your admission is the testimony that You can only make lofty demands of freedom in the shelter of rules that restrict it.

 

[scorpionx]

Dada,dohai aponar doya kore oi pujo ta dekhte jaben na!!Puro chaotic situation Deshapriya Park ghire toiri hoyeche.Amar barir theke ota khub beshi dure noy,amra bondhu ra age okhanei mathe adda ditam but e bochor oi rasta tai r maraini ei unwanted chaos er jonne!!
Btw Subho Saptami,amar pronam neben ebong barir sobai ke amar pronam deben

Ato khatir jotno ki sudhu Rainmaner jonno? Amra bakira mleccha naki?

 

[Mike_Brando]

Ato khatir jotno ki sudhu Rainmaner jonno? Amra bakira mleccha naki?

Chi chi chi eki bollen dada,apni toh amar gurubhai both being from R.K.Mission.Ami apnake ki kore bhule jabo.Ashole @Rain Man dada bolchilen je Deshapriya park er pujo ta or ekhono dekha hoyni tai r ki ami jeche ektu sabdhan kore dilam ei r ki.Btw apni o parle oi dik ta avoid korben bhishon bhir r jhamela oi puro rashbehari gariahat stretch tay.
Btw, wishing you and your entire family a happy and prosperous Shubho Saptami

 

[vsdoc]

Doc,i must admit that you have got a great sense of humor!!

I try.

Manfully.

 

[Mike_Brando]

@Joe Shearer Sir,
Wishing a very happy and prosperous Subho Saptami to you and your entire family

I try.

Manfully.

Seriously,i wish i had your sense of humor,you must have been quite popular among your female counterparts during your medical college days

 

[scorpionx]

Chi chi chi eki bollen dada,apni toh amar gurubhai both being from R.K.Mission.Ami apnake ki kore bhule jabo.Ashole @Rain Man dada bolchilen je Deshapriya park er pujo ta or ekhono dekha hoyni tai r ki ami jeche ektu sabdhan kore dilam ei r ki.Btw apni o parle oi dik ta avoid korben bhishon bhir r jhamela oi puro rashbehari gariahat stretch tay.
Btw, wishing you and your entire family a happy and prosperous Shubho Saptami

Just pulling, man. Wish you and family the same And no thanks, I prefer to watch pujo on Tv. In this old age, I don't like gutoguti and lomba line

 

[Mike_Brando]

Just pulling, man. Wish you and family the same And no thanks, I prefer to watch pujo on Tv. In this old age, I don't like gutoguti and lomba line

Same here,btw kaal onek sahas kore raater dike North Kolkata ta ghurte beriyechilam,ja obhigota hoyeche amar tate r future e kokhono Sasthir raate North Kolkata jabo na

 

[vsdoc]

I miss Durga Puja man.

I used to do aarti in the neighbors house private pandal (politico/strongman) and his younger daughter had a thing for me.

This was 7th standard.

I remember one of the burning pieces from the aarti falling to the ground and me in my frenzied dance moves stepping on it and burning my foot badly.

Young daughter then took great care of me .....

Its thanda here in Maharashtra. Jamshedpur was the scene!

 

[Mike_Brando]

I miss Durga Puja man.

I used to do aarti in the neighbors house private pandal (politico/strongman) and his younger daughter had a thing for me.

This was 7th standard.

I remember one of the burning pieces from the aarti falling to the ground and me in my frenzied dance moves stepping on it and burning my foot badly.

Young daughter then took great care of me .....

Its thanda here in Maharashtra. Jamshedpur was the scene!

Doc,were you a Jamshedpurian??Where in Jamshedpur??