Indian Navy Set to Commission 3rd Saryu Class NOPV - INS Sumedha

[surya kiran]

I would have agreed with you IF it had been a Coast Guard vessel. INS Saryu and its sisters are not. They belong to the IN.

This is more administrative in nature, regarding areas of operations as defined for ICG and IN.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

This is more administrative in nature, regarding areas of operations as defined for ICG and IN.

Well its a shame they did not arm it even modestly. I suspect it is budget.

Looks like IN wants to have enough ships with trained crew and hopes when the time are good they can load it up with goodies.

 

[Penguin]

You got that right. They are ocean patrol ships and need to be of larger tonnage. The point is why don't they have weapons ? You need weapons for Defense too, you know. Least someone on whom you are conducing surveillance decides you make them unhappy.

Why don't they have decent Radars ? How do you do surveillance ? line of sight ?



No one design's Naval ships only for Anti Piracy, they are built for war. My simple point is why not have a decent Radar and a couple of missiles ?

I see at least 2 radar sets, one forward of and one on the frontside of the mainmast. The Saryu Class featuring an automatic radar plotting aid (ARPA), Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS), gyro compass, magnetic compass, echosounder, speed log and Auto Pilot. The vessels also integrate an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) and communications according to Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) A3 regulations. The mast carries the ESM and communications gear. A Fire Control System (FCS) is fitted for the 76mm. There is an electro-optical gun director over the bridge, with a SP-521 Rakurs (Kolonka-2) backup ringsight director just forward of the elop 'ball'. This 'ball' may be Rafael C-lite and the associated DAFCO fire control system, or a similar system. The AK630s appear to each have a ring-sight as well (but probably can also be controlled by the elop 'ball' and FCS). The weapon package also includes chaff launchers (ECM) .

AK630 weapons control, see
Production Association "Tulamashzavod" - the official site - English version

Rafael DAFCO/C-Lite, see
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/351-1036-en/Marketing.aspx
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/351-1182-en/Marketing.aspx
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/1/631.pdf
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems - Norman Friedman - Google Boeken

AK 630 associated ringsight

Compare to Netherlands navy Holland class OPV (also navy operated ocean patrol ship, but comparable to Doorman class frigate in size)

Or USCG Famous class Medium Endurance Cutter WMEC
Medium endurance cutter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kaykay]

This link clearly defines its role.
Saryu Class Naval Offshore Patrol Vessels (NOPV) - Naval Technology
The offshore patrol vessel can conduct a range of missions, including maritime patrol, ocean
surveillance and overseeing the sea lines of
communication (SLOC), protection of offshore oil field infrastructure and offshore national assets and escorting the high value vessels.
The Saryu Class can also be used to escort high value vessels and fleet support operations. The NOPV can conduct uninterrupted missions for an extended period of 60 days.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

I see at least 2 radar sets, one forward of and one on the frontside of the mainmast. The Saryu Class featuring an automatic radar plotting aid (ARPA), Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS), gyro compass, magnetic compass, echosounder, speed log and Auto Pilot. The vessels also integrate an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) and communications according to Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) A3 regulations. The mast carries the ESM and communications gear. A Fire Control System (FCS) is fitted for the 76mm. There is an electro-optical gun director over the bridge, with a SP-521 Rakurs (Kolonka-2) backup ringsight director just forward of the elop 'ball'. This 'ball' may be Rafael C-lite and the associated DAFCO fire control system, or a similar system. The AK630s appear to each have a ring-sight as well (but probably can also be controlled by the elop 'ball' and FCS). The weapon package also includes chaff launchers (ECM) .

AK630 weapons control, see
Production Association "Tulamashzavod" - the official site - English version

Rafael DAFCO/C-Lite, see
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/351-1036-en/Marketing.aspx
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/351-1182-en/Marketing.aspx
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/1/631.pdf
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems - Norman Friedman - Google Boeken

AK 630 associated ringsight

Compare to Netherlands navy Holland class OPV (also navy operated ocean patrol ship, but comparable to Doorman class frigate in size)

Or USCG Famous class Medium Endurance Cutter WMEC
Medium endurance cutter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holland class OPV has a decent Radar. Still what is the primary design and operational consideration for ships of this type ?

Why not load them up with a few modular missiles that does not take up much space or manpower ?

 

[acetophenol]

Holland class OPV has a decent Radar. Still what is the primary design and operational consideration for ships of this type ?

Why not load them up with a few modular missiles that does not take up much space or manpower ?

Then it won't be a OPV,but a corvette. It is armed perfectly for a OPV.

Holland class OPV has a decent Radar. Still what is the primary design and operational consideration for ships of this type ?

Why not load them up with a few modular missiles that does not take up much space or manpower ?

Then it won't be a OPV,but a corvette. It is armed perfectly for a OPV.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Then it won't be a OPV,but a corvette. It is armed perfectly for a OPV.

LOL. Did you just make up that definition of a OPV and a corvette ? There is no naval doctrine that says an armed 2,300 ton ship cannot do patrolling or even a corvette cannot do patrolling.

Anyway on a more serious note I think it boils down to $ / mile cost for patrolling. I can see that Saryu class cost only 99 Million $ per ship and that is pretty cheap. So end of the day I do think its cost that has kept this fine vessel unarmed.

 

[Abingdonboy]

A Freaking 2,300 Tons Naval ship with NO Offensive Weapon except for a piddly 76 mm gun.

I just wish someone could tell me clear terms why there are no weapon on the bloody Naval ship.

I am sure this class of ships have their role and purpose, but why NO Offensive Weapons ?

Anyone ? @Penguin ..@Capt.Popeye .....is it cost ?

You have to understand the role of this warship to understand they armament it carries. And the clue is in the name-Naval Offshore Patrol Vessel, it is designed to deal with the likes of Somali "fishermen" and equally ill-equipped pirates, for this the 76mm main gun and MMGs or the embarked N-LUH (also carrying a MMG) will be MORE than enough.

Until now the IN has been sending 4,000+ ton Bhramos-equipped Talwar class Stealth frigates there, now tell me what is a better solution for dealing with these AK/RPG-toting pirates? To date not a single cruise missile has been used in anti-piracy missions so in the anti piracy role the NOPV can do everything the Talwars are doing in the role- the NOPVs have just what they need and not anything more. It is a far more effective use of resources than having a Talwar class frigate of all things just sat there working at maybe 30% of her effectiveness.


The NOPV logic is very sound and a very pragmatic idea from the IN.

 

[acetophenol]

LOL. Did you just make up that definition of a OPV and a corvette ? There is no naval doctrine that says an armed 2,300 ton ship cannot do patrolling or even a corvette cannot do patrolling.

Anyway on a more serious note I think it boils down to $ / mile cost for patrolling. I can see that Saryu class cost only 99 Million $ per ship and that is pretty cheap. So end of the day I do think its cost that has kept this fine vessel unarmed.

Had we armed this vessel with the weapons that you suggested,it would've been a corvette.
It is not whether a corvette can do patrolling or not,even an aircraft carrier may patrol the sea,no problemo.
What matters is the implications of these patrolling. An off shore patrolling vessel patrolling and intercepting ships,a foreign ship in particular,won't make news,as they are supposed to do so. On the other hand a corvette or any higher ups doing so indicate that navy or the country is in high alert and them intercepting a foreign vessel will almost certainly make news. In my opinion,its not cost,but Indian navy's need for an OPV that has kept this vessel unarmed.

 

[Penguin]

I would have agreed with you IF it had been a Coast Guard vessel. INS Saryu and its sisters are not. They belong to the IN.

Hence my subsequent comparison to Holland class, which are OPV owned and operated by the Dutch Royal Navy. There is nothing that precludes a navy to operate lightly armed patrol ships, even very large ones, or that dictates it only use heavily armed ships..

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Had we armed this vessel with the weapons that you suggested,it would've been a corvette.
It is not whether a corvette can do patrolling or not,even an aircraft carrier may patrol the sea,no problemo.
What matters is the implications of these patrolling. An off shore patrolling vessel patrolling and intercepting ships,a foreign ship in particular,won't make news,as they are supposed to do so. On the other hand a corvette or any higher ups doing so indicate that navy or the country is in high alert and them intercepting a foreign vessel will almost certainly make news. In my opinion,its not cost,but Indian navy's need for an OPV that has kept this vessel unarmed.

That bit make sense, still how many ships are intercepted and boarded ? I am sure the number will be in single digits.

Hence my subsequent comparion to Holland class, which are OPV owned and operated by the DUtch Royal Navy.
There is nothing that precludes a navy to operate lightly armed patrol ships, even very large ones.

So the question still is why is a 2,300 ton ship is unarmed (lightly armed if you are finicky). If you have a platform made for war in the hands of a professional war makers, the most logical thing would be to make them lethal or at least dangerous.

 

[janon]

That bit make sense, still how many ships are intercepted and boarded ? I am sure the number will be in single digits.

The number of ships that get boarded is one thing, the number of merchant ships that need to be escorted is much bigger. The area of ocean to be covered to keep our SLOC open is also huge. It is precisely because we can provide escort to a large number of ships, that pirates will keep away, and number of boarding incidents will be less. And the number of hijacks will be far lesser.

The issue is very much cost. Additional weaponry would cost a lot more. For most warships, thecost of the hull is only a small fraction of the overall cost. The weaponry and sensors (especially imported ones) cost a lot more. So why double the price of a ship that will only patrol the oceans to deter pirates?

So the question still is why is a 2,300 ton ship is unarmed (lightly armed if you are finicky). If you have a platform made for war in the hands of a professional war makers, the most logical thing would be to make them lethal or at least dangerous.

It is not a platform made for war, it is a patrol vessel as the name implies. The navy has warships for fighting wars. They need a certain number or warships, and a certain number of patrol vesssels for anti piracy and maritime interception during peacetime.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Goa shipyard has shown a shortened version of this OPV with missiles.

It depends on what the requirements of the user is.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Goa shipyard has shown a shortened version of this OPV with missiles.

It depends on what the requirements of the user is.

This is aimed for export to smaller navies who don't operate bigger vessels with bigger punch like the IN do...

 

[Water Car Engineer]

This is aimed for export to smaller navies who don't operate bigger vessels with bigger punch like the IN do...

If there is a need to to replace Kora class corvettes cheaply, those ships fitted out right could be useful.