Indian Navy & Coast Guard for briefing on Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey

[Abingdonboy]

February 02, 2015: Top sources indicate the Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard have asked for technical briefings on the V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft from Bell and Boeing. The Indian military has been impressed by the demonstrated capabilities of V-22, but has so far stopped short of expressing any overt interest in considering a purchase, despite feelers from Boeing. Boeing conducted a second level of detail presentation to the Indian military establishment (first the Navy) in 2013 on one of the most remarkable -- but also controversial -- aircraft ever built. Sources reveal that following a request by an Indian delegation at the Dubai Air Show in 2014, Boeing made its official V-22 pitch for India. The navy announced its interest in acquiring a fixed-wing AEW platform for its aircraft carriers (first the INS Vikramaditya, then the two indigenous aircraft carriers). While Northrop-Grumman has pitched the E-2 Hawkeye for nearly a decade now, the navy is understood to be intrigued by the flexibility being offered by the V-22. With vertical take off and transition into fixed wing flight, it appears to take care of both the navy's big quandaries in such a qualitative requirement. Fixed wing flight provides much greater range and speed, while vertical launch and recovery precludes the requirement of a catapult launcher (under consideration for the second indigenous aircraft carrier). In the first presentation that Boeing made to the navy on the V-22 (which was more for troop lift operations as part of the marine brigade concept with the Army), it showed slides demonstrating that the aircraft's wings could rotate to align with the fuselage, with the engine nacelles upright and rotors folded back to save space on a crowded carrier deck. Be that as it may, the Osprey is still a large aircraft, and the navy will have to study other parameters before looking any further. It is to be expected that the Osprey will also be pitched at the paramilitary forces, IAF, the CoastGuard and Army for various other requirements. For the flexible operations approach, the V-22 may play an important role.


Indian Navy and Coast Guard for briefing on Bell Boeing V 22 Osprey
- SP's MAI

 

[Supply&Demand]

this will be controversial like hell in india too...not to mention, this platform is very costly, from what hear, even a lot of americans want to scrap it...

 

[Ind4Ever]

this will be controversial like hell in india too...not to mention, this platform is very costly, from what hear, even a lot of americans want to scrap it...

Supply and demand this is potential for carrier operations like transporting troops , officers etc .

Even US Navy instead of going for new platform they choose this for their carriers operations vas per the new report . A month back . They are going for larger numbers so cost and maintenance will be checked at normal price

 

[SvenSvensonov]

from what hear, even a lot of americans want to scrap it...

Maybe a lot do, but the fact remains that the US is buying more, Japan and Israel too, and Australia and India are looking at the V-22. Some people are stuck with the thought that it has a high crash rate. It did. But not anymore. It's a solid platform and would be a good addition for any future amphibious capabilities in the IN. Even on large carriers, you need a supply platform, the US used the C-2 Greyhound, now it's using the V-22. India will need a similar platform to ferry supplies to and from its carriers to shores and other ships.

We are buying more:

Navy Decides to Buy V-22 Ospreys for Carrier Delivery « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

So is Japan:

Japan will purchase 17 V-22 Osprey tiltrotors - 11/24/2014 - Flight Global

 

[Supply&Demand]

Supply and demand this is potential for carrier operations like transporting troops , officers etc .

Even US Navy instead of going for new platform they choose this for their carriers operations vas per the new report . A month back . They are going for larger numbers so cost and maintenance will be checked at normal price

hmm..also i read somewhere that boeing is not including research and development cost of this anymore...they r considering those as sunk costs..any truth to tat?

 

[Ind4Ever]

Wait let me post that article here... I need to search

 

[Shinigami]

The navy announced its interest in acquiring a fixed-wing AEW platform for its aircraft carriers (first the INS Vikramaditya, then the two indigenous aircraft carriers

interezting..

 

[Ind4Ever]

Check this guys .. Very interesting article

Navy Decides to Buy V-22 Ospreys for Carrier Delivery « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

V-22 Osprey
Maximum Speed: 275/510 km/h
Vert rate of climb, SL, fpm (m/m) 1,090 (332) • Max rate of climb, SL, fpm (m/m) 2,320 (707)
Ceiling: 7,925 meters
one engine inop, ft (m) 11,300 (3,444) • HOGE, ft (m) - 14,200 (4,328)
Range (km): Amphib assault, nm (km) - 515 (954) • Max, self-deployment, nm (km) 2,100 (3,892)
Power Plant : Two Allison T406-AD-400 engines • Max and Intermediate, shp (kW) - 6,150 (4,586)
Rotor System: • Blades per hub - 3 • Construction - graphite/fiberglass • Tip speed, fps (mps) - 661.90 (201.75) • Diameter, ft (m) - 38.00 (11.58) • Blade area, ft2 (m2) - 261.52 (24.30) • Disc area, ft2, (m2) - 2,268.00 (210.70) • Blade folding - automatic, powered
Transmissions: • Takeoff [USMC], shp (kW) - 4,570 (3,408) • Takeoff [USN], shp (kW) - 4,970 (3,706) • Takeoff [USAF], shp (kW) - 4,970 (3,706) • 1 engine inoperative, shp (kW) 5,920 (4,415)
Dimensions (m): Internal: 7.37 x 1.80 x 1.83 m
External: • Length, fuselage, ft (m) - 57.33 (17.48) • Width, rotors turning, ft (m) - 83.33 (25.55) • Length, stowed, ft (m) - 62.58 (19.08) • Width, stowed, ft (m) - 18.42 (5.61) • Width, horizontal stabilizer, ft (m) - 18.42 (5.61) • Height, nacelles fully vertical, ft (m) - 21.76 (6.63) • Height, vertical stabilizer, ft (m) - 17.65 (5.38)
Max Take off Weight: • Empty, lbs (kg) - 33,140 (15,032) • Takeoff, vertical, max, lbs - 47,500 (21,546) • Takeoff, short running, max, lbs (kg) 55,000 (24,948) • Takeoff, self-deploy mission, lbs (kg) 60,500 (27,443) • Cargo hook, single, lbs (kg) 10,000 (4,536) • Cargo hook, dual, lbs (kg) - 15,000 (9,221) s
Crew: 2
Cabin - troop seats/litters - 24/12
Manufacturers: Boeing Company, Bell Helicopter Textron
Fuel Capacity: • Sponsons, gals (liters) - 1,228 (4,649) • Wings, gals (liters) - 787 (2,979) • Aux, self-deployment, gals (liters) - 2,436 (9,221)



The V-22 Osprey is the first aircraft designed from the ground up to meet the needs of all four U.S. armed services. The aircraft can transport Marine Corps assault troops and cargo using its medium lift and vertical takeoff and landing capabilities. It meets U.S. Navy requirements for combat search and rescue, fleet logistics support, and special warfare support.

The V-22 is a tiltrotor aircraft, taking off and landing like a helicopter, but, once airborne, its engine nacelles can be rotated to convert the aircraft to a turboprop airplane capable of high-speed, high-altitude flight. It can carry 24 combat troops, or up to 20,000 pounds of internal or external cargo, at twice the speed of a helicopter.

It includes cross-coupled transmissions so either engine can power the rotors if one engine fails. The rotors can fold and the wing rotate so the aircraft can be stored aboard an aircraft carrier. Boeing is responsible for the fuselage and all subsystems, digital avionics, and fly-by-wire flight-control systems. Boeing partner Bell Helicopter Textron, Inc., is responsible for the wing, transmissions, empennage, rotor systems, and engine installation.

 

[sancho]

The navy announced its interest in acquiring a fixed-wing AEW platform for its aircraft carriers (first the INS Vikramaditya, then the two indigenous aircraft carriers). While Northrop-Grumman has pitched the E-2 Hawkeye for nearly a decade now, the navy is understood to be intrigued by the flexibility being offered by the V-22. With vertical take off and transition into fixed wing flight, it appears to take care of both the navy's big quandaries in such a qualitative requirement. Fixed wing flight provides much greater range and speed, while vertical launch and recovery precludes the requirement of a catapult launcher (under consideration for the second indigenous aircraft carrier).

FINALLY, they should had taken a closer look long ago!

Some people are stuck with the thought that it has a high crash rate. It did. But not anymore. It's a solid platform and would be a good addition for any future amphibious capabilities in the IN. Even on large carriers, you need a supply platform, the US used the C-2 Greyhound, now it's using the V-22. India will need a similar platform to ferry supplies to and from its carriers to shores and other ships.

True the crash rate isn't that important anymore and even the serviceability seems to have improved, the problem however remains the huge unit and operational cost difference, compared to normal helicopters. The V22 is great in certain roles, where it's special capabilities (range, speed, ceiling) can be used, like in the AEW role compared to a Ka 31, but for standard transport operations like lifting cargo (especially with external loads) or troops, it's simply not cost-efficient. That's why it's not an export success so far and why most customers keep prefering helicopters as alternatives. Israel cancelled their order again for cost reasons, while Japan is doing the same as the US, simply going into more financial depth and both were interested in it mainly for special ops.
For IN it makes sense in the AEW role and the long range transport role that you pointed too, I also think the tanker role could be interesting depending on how much fuel it can carry compared to a Mig 29K in buddy refuelling role. IAF also should had taken them over the Ch47s as an addition to the special ops and mountain warfare units, next to the C130Js, leaving heavy lift to larger helicopters. But in anything below these special operations, the cost / capability ratio doesn't make it worth efficient.

 

[Abingdonboy]

this will be controversial like hell in india too...not to mention, this platform is very costly, from what hear, even a lot of americans want to scrap it...

I don't think anyone would raise much doubts about the V-22 in India, I find this comment surprising.

As for Americans wanting to scrap it, I don't think so. The V-22 is on order in the hundreds for the USMC, USAF and now the USN. The V-22 is used by HMX-1 the squadron that operates Marine One (for supply as a replacement to the Sea Knights) and there is the posisbilty the USAF might go for more CV-22s for their CSAR requirement to replace the HH-60G Pavehawks.

Then there is the possibility of foreign sales.


This bird has a lot of years left in its production line.

Even on large carriers, you need a supply platform, the US used the C-2 Greyhound, now it's using the V-22. India will need a similar platform to ferry supplies to and from its carriers to shores and other ships.

AFAIK the USN is the only navy with carriers who have such a pressing need for carrier on board delivery (COD), the French Navy never bought the C-2 despite purchasing the E-2C (effectively the same plane) so I'm not entirely sure if the IN envisages needing a COD aircraft. IF they do then the V-22 is worth looking at, if not the upgraded C-2.

FINALLY, they should had taken a closer look long ago!

Sir, where exactly do you see the AEW V-22 variant fitting in with the IN? The IAC-1 and INS Vikramditya would appear to be the ideal candidates considering they are STOBAR configured whereas for the IAC-2 and beyond it makes sense to go for the more capable E-2D AWACS (especially if they are coming with EMALS that looks ever more likely day by day). As such I don't see the IN going for two different highly expensive American AEW systems and for the IAC-1 and INS Vikramditya they have ordered the KA-31s or the AEW role.

For IN it makes sense in the AEW role and the long range transport role that you pointed too, I also think the tanker role could be interesting depending on how much fuel it can carry compared to a Mig 29K in buddy refuelling role. IAF also should had taken them over the Ch47s as an addition to the special ops and mountain warfare units, next to the C130Js, leaving heavy lift to larger helicopters. But in anything below these special operations, the cost / capability ratio doesn't make it worth efficient.

The tanker variant is very intriguing for, particularly, STOBAR carriers and their air wings indeed.


I also think that the IAF badly needs a plane like the V-22 for their CSAR requirements (which they are said to be exploring).

 

[sancho]

Sir, where exactly do you see the AEW V-22 variant fitting in with the IN? The IAC-1 and INS Vikramditya would appear to be the ideal candidates considering they are STOBAR configured whereas for the IAC-2 and beyond it makes sense to go for the more capable E-2D AWACS (especially if they are coming with EMALS that looks ever more likely day by day). As such I don't see the IN going for two different highly expensive American AEW systems and for the IAC-1 and INS Vikramditya they have ordered the KA-31s or the AEW role.

Yes IAC1 and Vikramaditya, but also for IAC 2 it wouldn't be a bad choice. We talked about it before, about the advantages of having an V22 AEW with an own DRDO radar system Vs being dependent on the US in operational terms or on upgrades if we take the E-2D with an US export radar system. So for commonality reasons and operational freedom with our own radar, using V22 AEW on all carriers would be preferable.

EMALS from the US seems to be on a good way, but here again one has to look at the pros and cons of being dependent on the US in terms of maintenaince and monitoring the system on our carrier, or most likely the aircrafts that will be used Vs operational freedom with Russian EMALS partnership or a larger STOBAR carrier.

 

[sancho]

Best mix for IN

 

[Genesis]

Maybe a lot do, but the fact remains that the US is buying more, Japan and Israel too, and Australia and India are looking at the V-22. Some people are stuck with the thought that it has a high crash rate. It did. But not anymore. It's a solid platform and would be a good addition for any future amphibious capabilities in the IN. Even on large carriers, you need a supply platform, the US used the C-2 Greyhound, now it's using the V-22. India will need a similar platform to ferry supplies to and from its carriers to shores and other ships.

We are buying more:

Navy Decides to Buy V-22 Ospreys for Carrier Delivery « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

So is Japan:

Japan will purchase 17 V-22 Osprey tiltrotors - 11/24/2014 - Flight Global

yes, China is also buying more, not from you, but buying more.

 

[Agent_47]

FINALLY, they should had taken a closer look long ago!



True the crash rate isn't that important anymore and even the serviceability seems to have improved, the problem however remains the huge unit and operational cost difference, compared to normal helicopters. The V22 is great in certain roles, where it's special capabilities (range, speed, ceiling) can be used, like in the AEW role compared to a Ka 31, but for standard transport operations like lifting cargo (especially with external loads) or troops, it's simply not cost-efficient. That's why it's not an export success so far and why most customers keep prefering helicopters as alternatives. Israel cancelled their order again for cost reasons, while Japan is doing the same as the US, simply going into more financial depth and both were interested in it mainly for special ops.
For IN it makes sense in the AEW role and the long range transport role that you pointed too, I also think the tanker role could be interesting depending on how much fuel it can carry compared to a Mig 29K in buddy refuelling role. IAF also should had taken them over the Ch47s as an addition to the special ops and mountain warfare units, next to the C130Js, leaving heavy lift to larger helicopters. But in anything below these special operations, the cost / capability ratio doesn't make it worth efficient.

As an Air to Air Refueler, the V22 is fitted with a palletized 660 lbs kit with a single drogue unit, deployed centrally from the rear ramp. Two auxiliary fuel tanks are installed in the cargo bay, each for 430 gallons, for a combined 5590 lbs of weight.The installation of this kit takes around 1 and a half hours. Max speed is 230 knots in this configuration, enough to safely refuel fixed-wing jets, F35 included. The central position of the drogue keeps the plane that is being refueled safe from the vortexes of the two massive rotors of the V22.
Internally, the MV22 carries 1720 gallons (117000 lbs), with the CV22 carrying 2040 gallons, so that, with the auxiliary tanks installed, there’s at least 17290 lbs of fuel on board, much of which is transferable.
It is not much, when you consider that a F35B carries more than 13.000 lbs of internal fuel, but for sure it is enough to provide an helpful top-up to several F35s in a single sortie, extending their range and endurance considerably.

UK Armed Forces Commentary: Giving eyes to the aircraft carriers

 

[holysaturn]

V-22 is a dog ,safety issues still persist, it can neither auto-rotate nor can it glide as effectively as a c-130, so the crew a at great danger if there is a glitch or small arms fire.It is prohibitively expensive to buy and maintain,we don't need such niche capabilities when our jawans dont have good rifles,body Armour , camo,shoes.