‘Indian history was distorted by the British’

[KS]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Kolkata/Indian-history-was-distorted-by-the-British/Article1-1004972.aspx

The Aryan invasion theory was actually part of the British policy of divide and rule, French historian Michel Danino, an expert on ancient Indian history, said on Thursday on the sidelines of the Kolkata Literary Meet. Danino, who authored books such as The Lost River: On The Trail of Saraswati and Indian Culture and India’s Future, blames the British for distorting Indian history and challenged the Aryan invasion theory, while maintaining that there was no actual Aryan-Dravidian divide.

“No ancient or medieval Indian text would support the Aryan invasion theory. It is genetically proven that Aryans and Dravidians belong to the same race, ”said Danino, who settle in India in 1977 and has since acquired Indian citizenship.

Danino said that early Tamil literature displayed a cultural fusion with north Indian literature. Even the name of the city Madurai was influence from the ancient north Indian heritage city, Mathura, Danino claimed.

“Indians are basically a mixed breed and the mixing started as early as the Stone Age. After the Saraswati river dried up, leading to the collapse of the Indus Valley civilization, people started settling on the banks of the Ganges. This phenomenon that occurred around 2000 BC led to massive mixing up of the populace as a while has to shift its base,” Danino explained.

“The Mahabharata defined ethnic groups as jatis, whereas the British brought in the term tribes to describe the same thing, thus denigrating the homogenous culture of India. Jatis were defined on ecological terms. There is a popular perception that casteism started in India since the Vedas but that is not true. There was no casteism even during the Mahabharata period,” he said.

Danino also rued the fact that Indians are apathetic towards the preservation of their rich culture and heritage. “1170 sites of the ancient Harappan civilization have been identified during its mature phase. But till date only around 100 sites have been excavated. There is a fear that 90% of the sites might disappear due to expansion of urban areas or agricultural land being converted to residential high rises,” Danino said.

He went on to give an example of how the archaeological Survey of India (ASI) could recover only eight kilos of Harappan gold when about 80 kilos of the same was unearthed at Mandi in Uttar Pradesh. Villagers pilfered the rest, depriving India of a useful insight into its rich heritage.

“ASI admitted to a Parliament query that 42 protected sites vanished from Delhi alone. No one noticed as land sharks went to grab the sites and construct high-rises on them,” Danino said.

Historian Sanjeev Sanyal, speaking on the continuity of Indian history claimed that east European and north Indian people share genetic similarities.

 

[Srinivas]

@KS thanks for the thread,

We have also discussed the same points here in PDF and came with the same conclusion as the author did.

 

[cyphercide]

The graver disservice by colonial authors like James Mill was the denial of indigenous intellect and it's history but that's just my opinion.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Utter nonsense. No Indian history other than Kalhan's account existed from before mediaeval times, so the question of a distorted account is moot. There was nothing to oppose to the British reconstruction, which was pathbreaking in so many ways, including the original question of the origin of the trifurcated series of languages available in south Asia, in the reconstruction and harmonisation of the Puranic king-lists, in the extraction of the facts relating to the Buddha and his times, and his teachings, including identification of his place of birth, in the identification of Asoka as the author of the pillar edicts and in dozens of other instances.

What started as an account from a European point of view merged with imperialist explanations which subtly and not so subtly backed the legitimacy and basis of British rule, and was opposed and moderated by the writings of nationalist historians. This latest spell of revisionist histories by a pack of new age speculators egged on by the remnants of ancient social power structures in a bid to re-establish their death-grip on Indian society lacks any legitimacy. Works produced by this genre are as authentic and as useful as Linda Goodman's Sun Signs. They are equally for the foolish and unwary.

Denial of Indian intellect? What produced the vast body of work, largely original research, that illuminates mainstream Indian history today?

 

[livingdead]

Aryan invasion or at least migration to subcontinent is the dominant theory even now, even if british did it to divide and rule, it would have been changed by now by eminent archiologists/historians.
I would like to know how the frenchman makes sense of current body of evidence.

 

[Joe Shearer]

To continue, there is no evidence to show that the homogenous nature of the Indian population originated from a mixing of populations as late as 2000 BC, a piece of imbecility which assumes a disparate population in different parts of the country before then. Even a casual reference to genetic studies will indicate that there was stability in the genetic structure of the Indian population from as far back as 10,000 BC. This nonsensical account seems to point to a single point of origination of Indian culture within the Indus Valley Civilisation, and its dissemination throughout the rest of India, beginning with the Ganges Valley, and presumably moving on southwards, down from the Ganges Valley, in an Agasthyan manner, leading to the colonisation (=Sanskritisation) of the southern plateau.

Surprising that those so quick to pounce on colonialist bias as they see it fail to see the neo-colonialist bias inherent in this crap.

 

[cyphercide]

Denial of Indian intellect? What produced the vast body of work, largely original research, that illuminates mainstream Indian history today?

Sir,

I do not know whether you were addressing this portion of your post to me. If you were, I was merely reflecting upon my understanding of the works of Amartya Sen who has extensively covered this topic.

 

[muse]

Aryan invasion or at least migration to subcontinent is the dominant theory even now, even if british did it to divide and rule, it would have been changed by now by eminent archiologists/historians.
I would like to know how the frenchman how he makes sense of current body of evidence.

Lets not close any doors, it's just not necessary - The Horse, The Wheel and Language: How Bronze Age Riders from The Euruasian steppes shaped the modern world


It is a fascinating, engaging read -- certainly not definitive, but if you get a opportunity to read it, take it

Danino, who authored books such as The Lost River: On The Trail of Saraswat

i

Not exactly the most neutral of scholars - he already has a position, which, it seems, argues Archeology in the service of ideology

 

[Joe Shearer]

If I might comment on hinduguy's note, which is more or less the case, the Aryan influence is seen today as a linguistic influence. In numerous parallel cases in history and pre-history elsewhere (let us bear in mind that the Aryan question is not part of Indian history, but of pre-history), languages have moved ahead of ethnicity. An actual ethnic incursion, the movement of tribes on a mass scale, is not a prerequisite for adoption of a language. The model that emerges is of the incursion, if at all, of individuals, families and groups of families, finally of tribes, in decreasing order of probability; the language they spoke spread rapidly throughout northern India, but there was no ethnic perturbation. It is probable that, to some extent, this relatively rapid dissemination, which still took between five to nine centuries, counting from 1500 BC to 600 BC, the most widely accepted date for the Buddha, may have been encouraged by the spread of small numbers of a ruling class of mixed origin which used this, among other social processes, to cement its hold on the existing small village economies then prevailing. These developments are clearly indicated in literary records, which contribute to an historical reconstruction through interpretation. There is no equivalent of Chinese recording of dynasties and their doings to set in an equivalent place within Indian history.

Sir,

I do not know whether you were addressing this portion of your post to me. If you were, I was merely reflecting upon my understanding of the works of Amartya Sen who has extensively covered this topic.

Sir,

I was, and I would not deny Amartya Sen, except to question that his denial of Indian intellect applies to these abstruse historical issues. His comment has its place. It is not here. I say this with respect to your reading, but nevertheless have to draw attention to its excessively sweeping application to all or any issues relating to Indology.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I hope there are no P. N. Oak fanatics here among you.

Late Professor Dani in Pakistan did some highly relevant original research on this subject. He concluded that Aryan invasion was not a cataclysmic event. It was a long and diffuse process. Indus Valley Civilization had gone into decline before the arrival of Aryans in force. The trade that sustained IVC seems to had been disrupted and that was one of the factors that led to decline.

Another factor that has come to be appreciated recently is the change in courses of rivers that struck a blow to Sarswati basin. Whereas Sutlej and Jamuna had joined and flowed together into Arabian sea, some geological event around 2000 BC set Jamuna flowing Eastwards and Sutlej flowed westwards to join Indus. This is also an explanation for finding large number of IVC sites along the ancient river bed of Sarsawati. Many of the ones along Indus and its tributaries are probably still populated by present day villages.


Professor Dani found ancient graves in KPK province which yielded artifacts dated to around the time of purported Aryan invasion. The material culture evidence obtained seemed to confirm the Aryan invasion theory.

Rig Veda contains references to City-dwelling Dasyus and their struggle against Aryans. Since Rig Veda is known to have ancient origins in oral tradition, one could infer (like the British) that there may be some truth in the Aryan Invasion hypothesis.

Finds in Central Asia, such as B-MAC culture also support the diffusion of Aryan culture from Central Asia towards India (Bactria)

Linguists can also trace the links to support origin of Aryans outside of India. The oldest reference to Aryan (Indo-European) language comes from 15-16 century BC kingdom of Mittani in Northen Syria (Indo-Aryan migration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[Srinivas]

To start with British is the empire built in looting the former colonies, it all started with the support of Pirates against the then rich empire Spain

British are the main reason for famines in India in Bengal where millions of people were dead, this was deliberately done to suppress the independence movement and to teach a lesson.

The atrocities done by british were covert unlike Islamic barbarians.

As the saying goes never forget the history.

Aryan Invasion is a Hoax with out any solid proof, People who believe in Aryan Invasion with out concrete proofs come under delusional dreamers.

As per latest DNA study below is the report

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study
TNN Sep 25, 2009, 01.16am IST

HYDERABAD: The great Indian divide along north-south lines now stands blurred. A pathbreaking study by Harvard and indigenous researchers on ancestral Indian populations says there is a genetic relationship between all Indians and more importantly, the hitherto believed ``fact'' that Aryans and Dravidians signify the ancestry of north and south Indians might after all, be a myth.

``This paper rewrites history... there is no north-south divide,'' Lalji Singh, former director of the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB) and a co-author of the study, said at a press conference here on Thursday.

Senior CCMB scientist Kumarasamy Thangarajan said there was no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory as they came hundreds or thousands of years after the ancestral north and south Indians had settled in India.

The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally ``upper'' and ``lower'' castes and tribal groups. ``The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society,'' the study said. Thangarajan noted that it was impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different.

The study was conducted by CCMB scientists in collaboration with researchers at Harvard Medical School,

Harvard School of Public Health and the Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT. It reveals that the present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).

``The initial settlement took place 65,000 years ago in the Andamans and in ancient south India around the same time, which led to population growth in this part,'' said Thangarajan. He added, ``At a later stage, 40,000 years ago, the ancient north Indians emerged which in turn led to rise in numbers here. But at some point of time, the ancient north and the ancient south mixed, giving birth to a different set of population. And that is the population which exists now and there is a genetic relationship between the population within India.''

The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. Singh said that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.

The researchers, who are now keen on exploring whether Eurasians descended from ANI, find in their study that ANIs are related to western Eurasians, while the ASIs do not share any similarity with any other population across the world. However, researchers said there was no scientific proof of whether Indians went to Europe first or the other way round.

Migratory route of Africans

Between 135,000 and 75,000 years ago, the East-African droughts shrunk the water volume of the lake Malawi by at least 95%, causing migration out of Africa. Which route did they take? Researchers say their study of the tribes of Andaman and Nicobar islands using complete mitochondrial DNA sequences and its comparison those of world populations has led to the theory of a ``southern coastal route'' of migration from East Africa through India.

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study - Times Of India

 

[Srinivas]

Sir,

I do not know whether you were addressing this portion of your post to me. If you were, I was merely reflecting upon my understanding of the works of Amartya Sen who has extensively covered this topic.

India has rich history and culture, This land is blessed with lot of intellect and ancient science advancements.

India is the place where both Islamic and Christian culture spread was met with ferocious resistance, One of the reasons for that resistance is, this land already has its own rich cultures and traditions which were deeply embedded in its people.

Until 10th century A.D starting from 300 B.C India went through a period of Golden age for almost 1300 years. While Europe is going through Dark ages.

This is the age when Britain was subjugated by Brutal Roman rule and their culture and traditions were changed due to foreign rule. India is a different case it retained its culture after going through Islamic and British influences.

Culturally and Historically India is a super power in ancient and modern times

This Aryan Invasion theory was a conspiracy to show that native Indian's are always slaves and so british rule is justified . (Pathetic way of justification).

British did help India in scientific advancements but India can do it on its own just like we did in IT field in recent times.
During the age of scientific advancements in middle ages India happened to be under british and Islamic rule. Which also made it difficult to have its own renaissance.

 

[zaxcollix]

...well if you put Harvard and MIT studies together with the 'arya' mentioned in the Vedas one may conclude that Ancestral North Indian (ANI) are the 'aryans' and that Hinduism is at least 40000 years old.

 

[Srinivas]

...well if you put Harvard and MIT studies together with the 'arya' mentioned in the Vedas one may conclude that Ancestral North Indian (ANI) are the 'aryans' and that Hinduism is at least 40000 years old.

Mate I have read some where that the word "RYA" means commoner and the opposite "A'RYA" means noble. And also the early Indologists are like school kids to understand our history and culture.

 

[Joe Shearer]

To start with British is the empire built in looting the former colonies, it all started with the support of Pirates against the then rich empire Spain

British are the main reason for famines in India in Bengal where millions of people were dead, this was deliberately done to suppress the independence movement and to teach a lesson.

The atrocities done by british were covert unlike Islamic barbarians.

As the saying goes never forget the history.

Aryan Invasion is a Hoax with out any solid proof, People who believe in Aryan Invasion with out concrete proofs come under delusional dreamers.

As per latest DNA study below is the report

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study
TNN Sep 25, 2009, 01.16am IST

HYDERABAD: The great Indian divide along north-south lines now stands blurred. A pathbreaking study by Harvard and indigenous researchers on ancestral Indian populations says there is a genetic relationship between all Indians and more importantly, the hitherto believed ``fact'' that Aryans and Dravidians signify the ancestry of north and south Indians might after all, be a myth.

``This paper rewrites history... there is no north-south divide,'' Lalji Singh, former director of the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB) and a co-author of the study, said at a press conference here on Thursday.

Senior CCMB scientist Kumarasamy Thangarajan said there was no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory as they came hundreds or thousands of years after the ancestral north and south Indians had settled in India.

The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally ``upper'' and ``lower'' castes and tribal groups. ``The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society,'' the study said. Thangarajan noted that it was impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different.

The study was conducted by CCMB scientists in collaboration with researchers at Harvard Medical School,

Harvard School of Public Health and the Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT. It reveals that the present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).

``The initial settlement took place 65,000 years ago in the Andamans and in ancient south India around the same time, which led to population growth in this part,'' said Thangarajan. He added, ``At a later stage, 40,000 years ago, the ancient north Indians emerged which in turn led to rise in numbers here. But at some point of time, the ancient north and the ancient south mixed, giving birth to a different set of population. And that is the population which exists now and there is a genetic relationship between the population within India.''

The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. Singh said that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.

The researchers, who are now keen on exploring whether Eurasians descended from ANI, find in their study that ANIs are related to western Eurasians, while the ASIs do not share any similarity with any other population across the world. However, researchers said there was no scientific proof of whether Indians went to Europe first or the other way round.

Migratory route of Africans

Between 135,000 and 75,000 years ago, the East-African droughts shrunk the water volume of the lake Malawi by at least 95%, causing migration out of Africa. Which route did they take? Researchers say their study of the tribes of Andaman and Nicobar islands using complete mitochondrial DNA sequences and its comparison those of world populations has led to the theory of a ``southern coastal route'' of migration from East Africa through India.

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study - Times Of India

Fact, it appears, is stranger than fiction.

It is difficult to believe that in this day and age, there are still among us imbeciles who confuse language groups with ethnicity.

Ever since fascist and National Socialist theories of race and racial purity were subjected to close examination, and shown to be nonsense, nobody has confused the Aryan language group with any hypothetical race called Aryan; nobody, conversely, has confused the Dravidian language group with any hypothetical race called Dravidian. Nobody in knowledgeable circles, nobody resorting to aimless trawling for words and phrases that they believe are important.

What a waste of time!

Mate I have read some where that the word "RYA" means commoner and the opposite "A'RYA" means noble. And also the early Indologists are like school kids to understand our history and culture.

I have read somewhere that the earth is flat and that the moon is made of green cheese. Since I have read these somewhere, I can't say where, the matter then stands proven beyond doubt.

Hilarious.