Indian defence & religion

[Tamizhan]

but Rahu Kaal???, we still believe in these things??, what if its a war. LCA wont take off on Rahu kaal???..anyway :Cheers:

We believe in everything. I personally am not surprised at that. For example,

Before the recent flight of PSLV, a mockup was placed at the feet of Lord Balaji in Tirupathi and special puja done for it. It is the usual practise of ISRO before any launch.

At the first test of any vehicle in CVRDE a small puja is done and the vehicle is run over four lemons under the tracks.

I've also heard that many such small religious sentiments are rife in DRDO too.

This is the recent photo of the puja for Hyderabad metro.

That is India for you. Where science and religion co-exist.

Please do not inject superstition and voodoo into these discussions, and particularly not Rahu Kaalam; not unless you want to reduce our genuine scientific and technological progress - it is to be hoped that you know the difference between the two - to a ridiculous level.

You will be surprised to know the level of 'sentiments' the scientists believe in. Nothing wrong in that.

 

[Joe Shearer]

We believe in everything. I personally am not surprised at that. For example,

Before the recent flight of PSLV, a mockup was placed at the feet of Lord Balaji in Tirupathi and special puja done for it. It is the usual practise of ISRO before any launch.

At the first test of any vehicle in CVRDE a small puja is done and the vehicle is run over four lemons under the tracks.

I've also heard that many such small religious sentiments are rife in DRDO too.

This is the recent photo of the puja for Hyderabad metro.

That is India for you. Where science and religion co-exist.



You will be surprised to know the level of 'sentiments' the scientists believe in. Nothing wrong in that.

There is everything wrong in that. Science is the diametrical opposite of superstition. None of the practices mentioned are religion us; they are grotesque mumbo-jumbo from villages, favoured by backward villagers.

Besides, religion has no place in a secular republic.

 

[Tamizhan]

There is everything wrong in that. Science is the diametrical opposite of superstition. None of the practices mentioned are religion us; they are grotesque mumbo-jumbo from villages, favoured by backward villagers.

Besides, religion has no place in a secular republic.

Your personal opinion which you are entitled to.

The much more learned men at ISRO,DRDO etc don't think so and as such your opinion does not count.

Just because India is constitutionally secular doesn't mean the day to day activities also become secular/non-religous. Also by this time you must be knowing Indian version of secularism is different from the French one which say "no" place to religion in executive and India rolls in a different way.

+ Let us not derail this thread with unnecessary arguments which have no bearings in the real world. I just interjected to say how faith does play a role in many activities of defence/science in India and not the merits/demerits of it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Your personal opinion which you are entitled to.

The much more learned men at ISRO,DRDO etc don't think so and as such your opinion does not count.

Also by this time you must be knowing Indian version of secularism is different from the French one which say "no" place to religion in executive and India rolls in a different way.

+ Let us not derail this thread with unnecessary arguments which have no bearings in the real world.

I suggest you contribute to not derailing threads by eliminating controversial nonsense like these stupid rituals - what scientific temper is displayed in crushing lemons?

As far as my personal opinion is concerned, it is as important as yours; it was your personal opinion to consider these stupidities as worthy of publicity. Further, during my tenure as CEO of a key joint venture between a western multinational and a Ministry of Defence undertaking, these village superstitions were completely eliminated, and nobody felt the lack. Nor did they cling on to Rahu Kaalam once they were told firmly to discard it. I made it count, in a valuable way.

The so-called Indian interpretation of secularism is an abomination introduced by Gandhi and the Congress, based on no thinking whatsoever, and the sooner it is eliminated, the better.

 

[heartrocker22]

There was a pooja even before a launch of Agni V ....... i Got so senti when i saw on Times now our nuclear scientist breaking Coconut near lauchpad of Agni ......India rocks

 

[ayesha.a]

Off topic, but I have to say this:

Scientists may have religious beliefs, but that does not make the beliefs scientific. Just because a nuclear physicist or someone at ISRO believes that crushing lemons or breaking coconuts makes a flight safer (or whatever it is supposed to do), does not make it a scientific truth. It becomes scientific only if it has been established (proven is a wrong word, but more commonly used) scientifically. Unless these beliefs are backed up by empirical evidence and logic, or scientific reasons/mechanisms are shown, these are just beliefs, no matter who holds the beliefs.

Scientists, like anyone else, may have personal beliefs depending on which region they grew up in. But that doesn't mean that those beliefs are scientific. So it is pointless to say that people at ISRO are doing it, so somehow it is worthwhile.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I can't resist when my profession is being talked about.

 

[SamantK]

Off topic, but I have to say this:

Scientists may have religious beliefs, but that does not make the beliefs scientific. Just because a nuclear physicist or someone at ISRO believes that crushing lemons or breaking coconuts makes a flight safer (or whatever it is supposed to do), does not make it a scientific truth. It becomes scientific only if it has been established (proven is a wrong word, but more commonly used) scientifically. Unless these beliefs are backed up by empirical evidence and logic, or scientific reasons/mechanisms are shown, these are just beliefs, no matter who holds the beliefs.

Scientists, like anyone else, may have personal beliefs depending on which region they grew up in. But that doesn't mean that those beliefs are scientific. So it is pointless to say that people at ISRO are doing it, so somehow it is worthwhile.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I can't resist when my profession is being talked about.

Right and adding to that, there is no point in stopping someone to do something completely harmless and trivial. IF they believe in something let them do it, as we in India do believe in things considered non-sense, making sense to someone should be left to that person and all can be happy! Peace and Co-existence is what being an Indian teaches you

 

[ayesha.a]

Right and adding to that, there is no point in stopping someone to do something completely harmless and trivial. IF they believe in something let them do it, as we in India do believe in things considered non-sense, making sense to someone should be left to that person and all can be happy! Peace and Co-existence is what being an Indian teaches you

That need not be a reply to my post, since nowhere did I imply otherwise. Of course people can follow any superstition they want, we have complete freedom for that in India (as long as they don't use taxpayers' money for that). But my post was in response to earlier claims that these beliefs have scientific validity. One poster was even claiming that science is not "mature" enough to understand these things yet.

So my point is that if somebody wants to do it, let them do it, but just because they do it, don't say that that makes it scientific.

 

[SamantK]

That need not be a reply to my post, since nowhere did I imply otherwise. Of course people can follow any superstition they want, we have complete freedom for that in India (as long as they don't use taxpayers' money for that). But my post was in response to earlier claims that these beliefs have scientific validity. One poster was even claiming that science is not "mature" enough to understand these things yet.

So my point is that if somebody wants to do it, let them do it, but just because they do it, don't say that that makes it scientific.

Im sorry, it was not a reply to your post, just because the button says "reply with quote" it does not mean its a reply. I was adding to your opinion, the first three words of my post make it abundantly clear... it was just a addition to your opinion cause I feel the same way.. anyways i will be careful in 'quoting' you from now on..

 

[Angad_NSA]

I suggest you contribute to not derailing threads by eliminating controversial nonsense like these stupid rituals - what scientific temper is displayed in crushing lemons?

40 years ago, westernized and english educated people used to call Yoga a superstitious science of backward Indians. Today, every American is mad about taking Yoga classes and western medical experts don't get tired talking about benefits of Yoga on health.

My friend, do some Yoga, it might help lessen your pain and will purify your hateful mind towards religious people. Hate against religions is as harmful as superstitions.

Secondly, Vedic sanatana Dharma is based on science so much that Europeans were baffled and lost all their debates with Shashtris(scholars) held during 18th century when British were here. This is when they decided to ban Sanskrit language to stop people from studying Sanskrit and hence vast base of their mathematics, chemistry and physical health sciences(Ayurveda) knowledge. That was 1858. The purpose was to destroy sense of nationalism and ownership of a rich ancient heritage. Looking at you, I would say, they succeeded in certain ways but now people are discovering the truth behind lies(Aryan-dravid theory) and India is waking up.

And lastly, Persians benefitted immensly from science and mathematics base of mother India in ancient times. Do you know what 786 is? Search on youtube. 786 is derived from symbol "OM".

 

[Angad_NSA]

Besides, religion has no place in a secular republic.

Secularism = Respect all religions(religious freedom to individuals).
Hate-mongering = Bad-mouthing religions, calling names.

I hope, I cleared the difference for you. The next time you open your dirty mouth, make sure others are human too. Just because they refuse to be arrogant and hate-mongerer like you, doesn't mean they are animals.

I think it was quite pathetic of you to say all that.

 

[SamantK]

Secularism = Respect all religions(religious freedom to individuals).
Hate-mongering = Bad-mouthing religions, calling names.

I hope, I cleared the difference for you. The next time you open your dirty mouth, make sure others are human too. Just because they refuse to be arrogant and hate-mongerer like you, doesn't mean they are animals.

I think it was quite pathetic of you to say all that.

Dude no need to be so offensive for people who do not understand everything, hell we don't too.. The so called superstitions are more than we know, some are as bad a as a fart but some other have been attributed to some things where the science agrees.. India should set up a research unit to look into the co-related science behind many of our beliefs or scriptures, there maybe loads we can learn.. but it should not be based on stupid presumptions

 

[SamantK]

I am from Hindu family and my parents never asked me to believe in anything superstitious.. but I used to live in a Muslim locality and there were people who used to drink water only after sitting down. I asked a dude why he did that, I do not remember completely but he said something on the lines of Qur'an or related to their prophet.. And incidentally, much later I read somewhere that we should drink water while sitting down.. Do not have the link, cant prove the authenticity but want to simply put a point that there can be more than 'what meets the eye' lolz

 

[Moksha]

I think many Indians are suffering from colonial education manipulations.Our minds are trained to hate everything traditional and love everything western. We got physical freedom but mentally we still long for western approval. Samantk you have a point in verifying all these beliefs and keeping which helps us grow better and rejecting which does not. I think "Rajiv Malhotra" is doing some great work in this regard. His book "Being Different" (Being Different Book | Just another WordPress site) is a good read. I am hopeful that slowly but surely decolonization of Indian mind is taking place, it's still in nascent stage but push back and questioning has started and more importantly this realization is taking place that something is wrong somewhere which opens whole lot of other doors.

 

[jayron]

I am embarrassed by this habit of keeping a model of PSLV in Balaji's feet before taking off. Just because they work at Isro, it doesn't make them immune to stupidity.
I'd like to quote EVR.Periyar here,

" If an Indian steps on a piece of paper he thinks he has stepped on Goddess Saraswati , slapping his cheeks as punishment. A white man uses the same paper to wipe his a$$. But he is the one to send man to moon"

I think many Indians are suffering from colonial education manipulations.Our minds are trained to hate everything traditional and love everything western. We got physical freedom but mentally we still long for western approval. Samantk you have a point in verifying all these beliefs and keeping which helps us grow better and rejecting which does not. I think "Rajiv Malhotra" is doing some great work in this regard. His book "Being Different" (Being Different Book | Just another WordPress site) is a good read. I am hopeful that slowly but surely decolonization of Indian mind is taking place, it's still in nascent stage but push back and questioning has started and more importantly this realization is taking place that something is wrong somewhere which opens whole lot of other doors.

Oh yeah! crushing a lemon before the train is the best way to preserve our culture. lets first accept that we have a lot of stupidity in our society. The best way to get rid of it is to first accept it exists. Lets preserve the best of our culture and forget the rest.