Indian Civil Nuclear News & Discussions.

[Neo]

India has become the latest nation to join the global project building a prototype nuclear fusion reactor.
It joins China, the EU, Japan, South Korea, Russia and the US in the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) team.

At a meeting on the Korean island of Jeju, Iter also named a new director-general, Kaname Ikeda.

The 10bn euro (£6.7bn) Iter project is designed to produce electricity using nuclear fusion, as happens in the Sun.

It will be built at Cadarache in France; construction will take at least a decade.

Global endeavour

An Iter statement on India's accession comments: "With this exciting new development, over half the world's population is now represented in this global endeavour."

Iter will be the second largest science project in history after the International Space Station.

ITER - NUCLEAR FUSION PROJECT

Project estimated to cost 10bn euros and will run for 35 years
It will produce the first sustained fusion reactions
Final stage before full prototype of commercial reactor is built
After decades of experimentation at national and regional level, it should demonstrate once and for all whether it is possible to harness the tremendous potential of nuclear fusion in a practical and economic way.

Fusion works by forcing together atomic nuclei, rather than by splitting them as in the case of the fission reactions that power existing nuclear stations.

In the core of the Sun, huge gravitational pressures allow this to happen at around 10 million degrees Celsius. These pressures cannot be created on Earth, so temperatures need to be much higher - above 100 million degrees Celsius.

No materials could withstand direct contact with such heat; the favoured solution is to hold a super-heated gas, or plasma, of hydrogen fuel inside an intense doughnut-shaped magnetic field.

Unlike the burning of fossil fuels, fusion reactions produce no carbon dioxide and so the process contributes almost nothing to the greenhouse effect.

It is also inherently powerful, and could potentially provide a solution to the energy shortages coming over the course of this century.

But the huge technical issues involved prompt sceptics to suggest it may never work.

India's involvement in the project, which has been welcomed by the European Commission and the US administration, suggests that it is among the optimists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4504668.stm

 

[EagleEyes]

India has the deal of getting energy that allows getting help from U.S in any way or the other, thus i believe it is a part of nuclear related project that can be used for energy purposes.

The question is Pakistan welcome to join the same project. :glare:

 

[miroslav]

India joins $5.4 billion fusion project in France

December 07, 2005 12:38 IST


India will join six other countries in the 4.6 billion euro ($5.4 billion or Rs 25,000 crore) experimental fusion reactor project.

The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor to be built in Cadarache, in southern France, over a decade starting 2007, will have seven partners: the European Union, Japan, the United States, Russia, South Korea, China and India.

The European Union is to put up half the cost of building the reactor, with the rest evenly divided among the other parties.

Francois d'Aubert, France's official representative for the ITER, acknowledged that a technical agreement had been struck welcoming India. He said an agreement was yet to signed but said, "There are no longer any obstacles to overcome," he said.

ITER is the experimental step between today's studies of plasma physics and tomorrow's electricity-producing fusion power plants.

It is based around a hydrogen plasma torus operating at over 100 million °C, and will produce 500 MW of fusion power. The international project works under the auspices of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

It is technically ready to start construction and the first plasma operation is expected in 2016. ITER is to be constructed in Europe, at Cadarache, near Aix-en-Provence, France.


Link

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Inclusion in international project proof of India's N-commitment
December 07, 2005 16:07 IST
Last Updated: December 07, 2005 16:14 IST


India on Wednesday said that its inclusion as a full partner in the ambitious multi-country International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor energy project was an acknowledgement of it being a responsible nuclear state with advanced nuclear technology.

The decision also recognises that India can significantly contribute to such endeavours, an external affairs ministry spokesman said in New Delhi on the decision taken by the six partner countries - US, European Union, Russia, China, Japan and South Korea - in Jeju, South Korea on Tuesday.

"India's acceptance as a full partner is an acknowledgement of India as a responsible nuclear state with advanced nuclear technology, including in the field of fusion research," he said, adding, "As a full partner, Indian contribution to the ITER project shall be on the same basis as that of other partners."

ITER is the experimental step between the latest studies of plasma physics and future electricity-producing fusion power plants.

The ambitious project, estimated to cost about 4.6 billion euro ($5.4 billion or Rs 25,000 crore), aims at producing nuclear energy equivalent to that of Sun.

The main ITER facility will be built in Cadarache in France and all partners will participate in its construction, development and research.

After the International Space Station, the ITER would be the largest international research and development collaboration. The reactor, which works on controlled fusion reactions technology, will produce unlimited amount of energy in an environment-friendly manner.

Link

Miro

 

[Neo]

The fusiontechnology will provide India and other states with higher returns comared to the current technology where seccs are split to create energy as it seems.
My question is, with such a big investment ($10 billion) will this technology be feasible to all nations?

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Neo@Dec 7 2005, 08:05 PM
The fusiontechnology will provide India and other states with higher returns comared to the current technology where seccs are split to create energy as it seems.
My question is, with such a big investment ($10 billion) will this technology be feasible to all nations?

[post=4562]Quoted post[/post]​

Aiming for the sun: India joins the world

India will join the United States, Russia, China, Japan, the European Union and Korea in a 4.6 billion euro ($5.4 billion or Rs 25,000 crore) experimental fusion reactor project, it was revealed on Wednesday.

If you are wondering just what that means, read on:

What is ITER?

It stands for the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, which is supposed to harness fusion energy to produce energy for civilian purposes. Fusion is the process of fusing two small nuclei to form a bigger nucleus. It is the process by which the sun radiates energy and by which hydrogen bombs work. In the sun, hydrogen atoms fuse to form helium, emitting vast amounts of nuclear energy.

Fusion is the opposite of fission, which is the principle by which atom bombs work – by splitting a heavy nucleus into two smaller nuclei.

But ITER -- pronounced like 'fitter' without the 'f' -- is all about making the energy released in the fusion process work for mankind, not against it.

Incidentally, ITER means 'the way' in Latin. Experts believe with fossil fuel reserves fast depleting, nuclear energy is the way to meet mankind's ever-increasing energy needs.

Why nuclear fusion?

Because fuel required for fusion is abundant and inexhaustible, the fusion process is considered safe, and fusion plants do not damage the environment.

So why haven't countries taken to fusion energy in a big way?

Since the 1950s, scientists all over the world have been trying to harness fusion energy for peaceful uses. But, so far, the fusion machines have been able to produce only small amounts of energy. ITER plans to change that.

Where and when will ITER be built?

ITER is being constructed in southern France at Cadarache, near the Aix-en-Provence. It should be operational by 2016.

How much energy are we talking about here?

As mentioned before, fusion powers the sun and the stars. So, theoretically, fusion can yield huge amounts of energy. But ITER is aiming at producing 500 MW of energy.

When was ITER planned?

Plans for ITER began in 1985. After many rounds of negotiations and planning -- which are unavoidable for a project that involves so many countries -- the work on the design of the reactor started on in 2001. Even as you read this, ITER's design is being finetuned in Naka, near Tokyo, Japan, and in Garching, near Munich, Germany. Teams of scientists from the participating countries are also working on it.

Why was India included?

As Dr V P Raja, head of the Indian delegation in Jeju, Republic of Korea, said: "Our scientists have already designed and fabricated two tokamak devices [a kind of nuclear reactor, the ITER will also be a tokamak device] Aditya and the steady state superconducting tokamak SST 1. Many technologies of relevance to the forefront of fusion research have been developed by our scientists and engineers in collaboration with our industries. We thus bring to the table a combination of strong commitment from the government and special scientific and technological skills, which are of relevance to ITER and to fusion research."

The whisper in official circles is also that India's inclusion into the ITER project is a result of the India-US nuclear agreement of July 18.

 

[EagleEyes]

Of course this is because of the agreement otherwise i doubt India would have easily be get into ITER.

What is India going to do this organizations? leeching? or actually participating?

Many technologies of relevance to the forefront of fusion research have been developed by our scientists and engineers in collaboration with our industries. We thus bring to the table a combination of strong commitment from the government and special scientific and technological skills, which are of relevance to ITER and to fusion research.

Is he talking about India?

 

[Flintlock]

Indo-French nuclear accord ‘technically ready’

But NSG exemption must: French envoy

Hyderabad: French Ambassador Jerome Bonnafont declared here on Thursday that a bilateral agreement between France and India on civilian nuclear energy cooperation was “technically ready” and it could be signed as soon as the IAEA safeguards pact was okayed and the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group granted exemption.

In an interview to The Hindu, he said it was France which “originated” the idea in 1998 that there was need for a specific status for India as far as civilian nuclear energy cooperation was concerned.

The set of agreements that India was discussing with the IAEA, NSG, France, Russia and the U.S. was the direct consequence of “this conviction of ours” that as India was a responsible nuclear power (even if it is not a member of Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty), there had to be a special regime for it to have sustainable development.

“We are in favour of the IAEA agreement if India decides to do so, to enter into force.” France had repeatedly said that it was in favour of NSG exemption for India.
“Win-win situation”

Mr. Bonnafont said it was impossible to have an agreement without IAEA nod and NSG exemption as it was against international law. “We believe that it is not up to us to talk for India, but if we look at our experience of civilian nuclear energy, the decisions we have made had enhanced our sovereignty, increased our energy independence and at the same time put us in the best position in Europe to fight climate change. We believe it is a win-win situation for India and the world to go in that direction.”

Describing the relations between India and France as excellent, he said it was “very old friendship” that had developed into a strategic partnership, which meant that France and India shared the same view of what the world should become.

On bilateral trade, he was optimistic of meeting the target of doubling the existing two-way trade of more than 6 billion euros to 12 billion euros by 2012 as envisaged by French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Mr. Bonnafont described the joint building of Scorpene submarine as a flagship project that involved technology transfer, cooperation from company-to-company and strategic vision of relationship.

On the education front, he said France planned to triple in the next few years the number of students visiting it from 1,000 to 1,500 at present.
Consulates

Two more French consulates would be opened by the end of the year — in Bangalore and Kolkata. The Bangalore consulate would cover both Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, he said.

The Hindu : Business : India to trail China in capital flows

 

[araz]

Very interesting indeed!!! I wonder is this why the Indians went threough the whole charade of a nuclear pact with USA, knowing they would not be able to abide by its terms but it would give them the international credibility to sign a deal with France. frankly thiswhole business is a joke and I wish the Indians all the best in their quest for newer sources of energy. By the way a question---- What would be the stance of the IAEC on this deal as India is not a signatory to NPT?
Araz

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Very interesting indeed!!! I wonder is this why the Indians went threough the whole charade of a nuclear pact with USA, knowing they would not be able to abide by its terms but it would give them the international credibility to sign a deal with France. frankly thiswhole business is a joke and I wish the Indians all the best in their quest for newer sources of energy. By the way a question---- What would be the stance of the IAEC on this deal as India is not a signatory to NPT?
Araz

Thats what the Indo-Us nuclear deal is all about, it's India specific IAEA safeguards, basically, it says, enjoy all the benifits of NPT, without having to sign one.

 

[araz]

Thats what the Indo-Us nuclear deal is all about, it's India specific IAEA safeguards, basically, it says, enjoy all the benifits of NPT, without having to sign one.

Aziz
I dont think it is all that simple other wise India would have been jumping for joy and would have signed the deal long ago. There are obvious restrictions which the indian Government is not happy about. The question really is --which way do we perceive this -- an Indian ploy to cajole USA into relaxing some of the terms or as I had suggested earlier. The deal has not been signed, so how come india wants to sign a contract with the french without IAEC consent.? Hence my second question.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[JEFF]

Very interesting indeed!!! I wonder is this why the Indians went threough the whole charade of a nuclear pact with USA,

I don't think there is a slightest relation between our issues with US Nucler pact and that with a french.

knowing they would not be able to abide by its terms but it would give them the international credibility to sign a deal with France.

Oh really, then tell me in a lucid manner how does non- compliance of terms would give India a international creadibility to sign a deal with france?

Morever, India do have some discontent with the pact but there level of coverage is not enough to overshadow India's ambition to sign nucler deal. Morever I haven't seen anything wrong with those rules and hence where India had some problem with some special aspects of hyde act, India accordingly redress all those issues with impunity. It is only some allies like Left creating some trouble but ruling govenrment has already taken due precautions to handle them.

frankly thiswhole business is a joke

Oh does it sounds you a joke? Tell me how did you concluded it. Morever if you ever realizes the benefits of this deal in the form its various spin off like access of US advanced Military and space technologies with the signage of this very deal then you may never here concluded it as a joke.

and I wish the Indians all the best in their quest for newer sources of energy.

It is one among several sources that we are discovering and hence we don’t attach special importance to apart from improving strategic and bilateral ties with US.

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Aziz
I dont think it is all that simple other wise India would have been jumping for joy and would have signed the deal long ago. There are obvious restrictions which the indian Government is not happy about. The question really is --which way do we perceive this -- an Indian ploy to cajole USA into relaxing some of the terms or as I had suggested earlier. The deal has not been signed, so how come india wants to sign a contract with the french without IAEC consent.? Hence my second question.
WaSalam
Araz

Hi Araz,


As I have said, IAEA will have India specific safeguards once this deal kicks off. India has to seperate military nuclear reactors from civilian nuclear reactors, thats the only thing India need to do.

The Indo-Us nuclear deal is a win-win situation for India. The only reason why the Indo-US nuclear deal hasent taken off yet is because the present government that is in power, is an alliance of different parties, majority of them the Indian National Congress and the Left communist parties.The govt. can form at the centre only when they have the majority of the seats in the parliment, without the support of the Left parties, the UPA govt. which is now in power, cannot form the govt. cause they dont have the numbers.

Now, the communist left parties, have strong anti-imperialistic values, and are very vocal anti-americans, they dont want any co-operation with Usa.
The Upa govt. has the numbers to pass the deal and send it to IAEA, and the IAEA will sign the deal and send it to the US congress for the final approval.
But, if the UPA govt. passes the deal to IAEA, the left parties will withdraw the support that will result to early elections.

 

[Interceptor]

Thats what the Indo-Us nuclear deal is all about, it's India specific IAEA safeguards, basically, it says, enjoy all the benifits of NPT, without having to sign one.

Maybe that is so, but then again there is an equal and opposite interest on Pakistan, so I would see Pakistan achieving a similar or even better deal in future. If India believes that there wont be counter incentives taken by Pakistan, then it is hugely mistaken, the consequences it takes each time to furthers its cooperation in the field of Nuclear technology. Steps from the Pakistani side also increase in this field.

But there is another supply of nuclear know-how and hardware much nearer to India geographically and much closer to the CPM ideologically: China. Indeed, while New Delhi is dithering over the deal with the US, Beijing is reportedly eager to home-deliver nuclear capabilities of various sorts (it's called proliferation) to an already nuclear-enabled Islamabad, as it had done earlier to Pyongyang. In fact, it was largely through Chinese help that Pakistan cut its nuclear teeth as a response to India's Pokhran I.

What the CPM should now do is to talk Beijing into doing a nuclear kutti with Islamabad and establishing nuclear links with New Delhi instead. The CPM's cuddliness with Beijing is well known and Comrade Karat and Co should not find it beyond their powers of blandishment to inveigle the Middle Kingdom into becoming India's nuclear sugar daddy. Of course, if New Delhi were to fall into Beijing's nuclear embrace, the rest of the international community might well make its displeasure felt by imposing trade and other embargoes. So what? The CPM has made it quite clear, with regard to Tibet and other issues, that the whole world were well lost if only China were gained.

Do N-deal with China-SECOND OPINION-Jug Suraiya-Columnists-Opinion-The Times of India

The Pakistan economic survey, released last week, gave an interesting preview of the country's nuclear future. In a paragraph that went almost unnoticed, the survey said, "Negotiations are in progress with China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC) for setting up two additional 325 MWe units at Chashma and for starting designs studies of 1000 MWe units at Karachi."

In other words, while India will be constrained from pursuing the nuclear power option, Pakistan may be working out its own nuclear deal with China. The two units in Karachi are a new element in Pakistan's nuclear plans.

Pak in talks with China for more nuke plants-India-The Times of India

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

Maybe that is so, but then again there is an equal and opposite interest on Pakistan, so I would see Pakistan achieving a similar or even better deal in future. If India believes that there wont be counter incentives taken by Pakistan, then it is hugely mistaken, the consequences it takes each time to furthers its cooperation in the field of Nuclear technology. Steps from the Pakistani side also increase in this field.

Sure, go ahead and ask US for Pakistan specific IAEA safeguards and Nuke deal.....What happened when the last time you asked?? ....the Indo-US nuke deal is unique and India is a special case with a very clean nuclear record.