Indian Army in Global Hunt for Assault Rifles, Endangering Excalibur

[Zarvan]

NEW DELHI — India has begun a global hunt to buy 185,000 7.62x51mm-caliber assault rifles, with more than $1 billion set aside for acquisition project, putting into question the fate of the homegrown assault rifle Excalibur, which is still in development by the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO).

The fresh request for information (RFI) issued last week contains modified requirements and is expected to receive positive results, according to an official with the Ministry of Defence (MoD). The official said the formal tender will be issued in April 2017.

"That project [Excalibur] does not have any future as Indian Army's requirement is of 7.62x51mm, whereas Excalibur is 7.62x45mm," a senior Indian Army official said.

Rahul Bhonsle, a retired Indian Army brigadier and defense analyst, said: "DRDO projects will remain technology demonstrators given that they do not provide the confidence to the customer, the Indian Armed Forces, that these weapons systems are modern or state of the art."

No DRDO official was available to comment on the fate of the Excalibur assault rifle.

An earlier attempt to buy the assault rifles, through a global tender in 2011, failed as only Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) had been able to fulfil the requirements.

Those involved in the 2011 trials were IWI, Colt of the United States, Beretta of Italy, and Ceska of the Czech Republic.

Detailing the new requirements in contrast to the 2011 tender, the senior Army official said: "It is single caliber now and not multi-caliber. Secondly, earlier [it] was 7.62x39mm, now [it] is 7.62x51mm."

The 2011 tender had sought a transfer of technology to the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), which manages 41 state-owned defense factories.

The fresh RFI is likely to attract the same companies from the 2011 trials, according to the MoD official.

The RFI says the Army is seeking the specific caliber to replace the homegrown 5.56mm INSAS, an Indian small arms rifle.

The broad parameters specify the lightweight rifle should have a minimum effective range of 500 meters with limited recoil. With multi-option telescopic sights, the rifle should also be capable of being fitted with 40mm under-barrel grenade launchers.

The RFI also stipulates that the rifle should be compatible with visible laser-target pointers, holographic and other sights, and the rifle should be state of art in terms of design, metallurgy and performance parameters in such a way as to remain relevant for at least the next 25 years.

"The RFI is watered down, yet it still remains complex. Why does the Army require an assault rifle with a telescopic sight? [It] is not clear. Does it want every soldier to have a sniper capability? These complex, qualitative requirements do not augur well for the future of this RFI ... unless at the [request for proposal] stage there is a change," Bhonsle said.

"The range of 500 meters is highly optimistic," he added.

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...hunt-for-assault-rifles-endangering-excalibur

 

[GreenFalcon]

NEW DELHI — India has begun a global hunt to buy 185,000 7.62x51mm-caliber assault rifles, with more than $1 billion set aside for acquisition project, putting into question the fate of the homegrown assault rifle Excalibur, which is still in development by the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO).

The fresh request for information (RFI) issued last week contains modified requirements and is expected to receive positive results, according to an official with the Ministry of Defence (MoD). The official said the formal tender will be issued in April 2017.

"That project [Excalibur] does not have any future as Indian Army's requirement is of 7.62x51mm, whereas Excalibur is 7.62x45mm," a senior Indian Army official said.

Rahul Bhonsle, a retired Indian Army brigadier and defense analyst, said: "DRDO projects will remain technology demonstrators given that they do not provide the confidence to the customer, the Indian Armed Forces, that these weapons systems are modern or state of the art."

No DRDO official was available to comment on the fate of the Excalibur assault rifle.

An earlier attempt to buy the assault rifles, through a global tender in 2011, failed as only Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) had been able to fulfil the requirements.

Those involved in the 2011 trials were IWI, Colt of the United States, Beretta of Italy, and Ceska of the Czech Republic.

Detailing the new requirements in contrast to the 2011 tender, the senior Army official said: "It is single caliber now and not multi-caliber. Secondly, earlier [it] was 7.62x39mm, now [it] is 7.62x51mm."

The 2011 tender had sought a transfer of technology to the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), which manages 41 state-owned defense factories.

The fresh RFI is likely to attract the same companies from the 2011 trials, according to the MoD official.

The RFI says the Army is seeking the specific caliber to replace the homegrown 5.56mm INSAS, an Indian small arms rifle.

The broad parameters specify the lightweight rifle should have a minimum effective range of 500 meters with limited recoil. With multi-option telescopic sights, the rifle should also be capable of being fitted with 40mm under-barrel grenade launchers.

The RFI also stipulates that the rifle should be compatible with visible laser-target pointers, holographic and other sights, and the rifle should be state of art in terms of design, metallurgy and performance parameters in such a way as to remain relevant for at least the next 25 years.

"The RFI is watered down, yet it still remains complex. Why does the Army require an assault rifle with a telescopic sight? [It] is not clear. Does it want every soldier to have a sniper capability? These complex, qualitative requirements do not augur well for the future of this RFI ... unless at the [request for proposal] stage there is a change," Bhonsle said.

"The range of 500 meters is highly optimistic," he added.

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...hunt-for-assault-rifles-endangering-excalibur

Which ones are they using now?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

They want assault rifles to have minimum effective range of 500m seriously? I am not sure who are doing the requirements analysis

 

[Śakra]

They want assault rifles to have minimum effective range of 500m seriously? I am not sure who are doing the requirements analysis

They want to eliminate local competitors so they can buy international and get kickbacks.

 

[Fenrir]

The requirements are interesting, but fortunately I've got a firearm that fits. Viola!!

Let's check the specs:

• Chambered for 7.62 x 51.
• Semi or full auto with a rate of fire of 725rpm.
• Supports long distance optics.
• Meets the minimum effective fire distance of 500 with a confirmed maximum effective fire distance of 4.2km.
• Fits any NATO attachment including laser sights, grips, thermal optics, suppressors and many more.
• Looks bad*ss.

It's got all the quality you're looking for!!

If you aren't sure what the heck that is, it's an M14 EBR. Not to be confused with the marksman variant the M39:

No DRDO official was available to comment on the fate of the Excalibur assault rifle.

Could be a bluff to get the anchors out of DRDO's pants or to spurn local competition or gun smiths into action. Or it could be that Excalibur doesn't live up to its requirements and an established alternative is sought as a replacement, either permanent or on an interim basis.

I think there are better options around then Excalibur. It's ambitious, but ever shifting requirements caused it to become muddled and it doesn't compare favorably to international competitors.

And if they're really starved for a rifle that fits the billing, we've got a stock of G3s you can have. No questions asked. No payment asked for.

 

[Athen]

aesthetics are important too!

 

[Fenrir]

aesthetics are important too!

But are very far down the list of military requirements, unfortunately.

If you're going to be kicking *ss, might as well look good doing it.

They want assault rifles to have minimum effective range of 500m seriously?

It seems like a lot, but that's actually rather standard for even 5.56 rifles, let alone larger calibers like 7.62.

Galil Ace, AUG, M16A4, AK-104, the list goes on and many of them have minimum effective firing ranges of near 800m against an area target (500 against pinpoint targets), so it's not unreasonable.

5.56 is criticized as being less then effective at those distances, but it's still lethal and will still cause traumatic injuries, trust me, I was responsible for treating said wounds. In the right hands it's deadly at ranges greater then 800 meters.

Swapping to 7.62 ensures lethality and penetration at those distances, but adds mass to the rifle and increases its cost, so there's a trade off that needs to be accounted for. Also, most western 7.62 rifle designs are either DMR, SR or Battle Rifle designs. Few are for assault purposes. If India is looking for a Western design to compete with or annul Excalibur, it needs to be cognizant of this.

Once you begin loading 7.62 into a rifle you start needing a heavier frame and heavier barrel and the rifle's performance shifts largely into the realm of a Battle Rifle where precision takes precedent over volume, like with the HK417 which can be configured as an assault rifle if ported with a short barrel, but is far from perfect in this role.

Interesting requirements, not unreasonable, but interesting.

 

[Athen]

But are very far down the list of military requirements, unfortunately.

If you're going to be kicking *ss, might as well look good doing it.



It seems like a lot, but that's actually rather standard for even 5.56 rifles, let alone larger calibers like 7.62.

Galil Ace, AUG, M16A4, AK-104, the list goes on and many of them have minimum effective firing ranges of near 800m against an area target (500 against pinpoint targets), so it's not unreasonable.

5.56 is criticized as being less then effective at those distances, but it's still lethal and will still cause traumatic injuries, trust me, I was responsible for treating said wounds. In the right hands it's deadly at ranges greater then 800 meters.

Swapping to 7.62 ensures lethality and penetration at those distances, but adds mass to the rifle and increases its cost, so there's a trade off that needs to be accounted for. Also, most western 7.62 rifle designs are either DMR, SR or Battle Rifle designs. Few are for assault purposes. If India is looking for a Western design to compete with or annul Excalibur, it needs to be cognizant of this.

Once you begin loading 7.62 into a rifle you start needing a heavier frame and heavier barrel and the rifle's performance shifts largely into the realm of a Battle Rifle where precision takes precedent over volume, like with the HK417 which can be configured as an assault rifle if ported with a short barrel, but is far from perfect in this role.

Interesting requirements, not unreasonable, but interesting.

haa ,fck it... why dont we just get HK416... most badass looking rifle !!

 

[GURU DUTT]

here is what we need

http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.in/2013/09/kel-tec-762x51mm-rfb-bullpup-rifle.html

 

[Beny Karachun]

The IWI Tavor:

The IWI ACE Family, 5.56mm Galil ACE models 21, 22 and 23 rifles (from top to bottom)

7.62x39 Galil ACE model 32 rifle

7.62x51 Galil ACE model 52 rifle

 

[GURU DUTT]

The IWI Tavor:

The IWI ACE Family, 5.56mm Galil ACE models 21, 22 and 23 rifles (from top to bottom)

7.62x39 Galil ACE model 32 rifle

7.62x51 Galil ACE model 52 rifle

do they have a tavor with 7.62X51mm with 18.5 and 24 inch barrel ?

 

[Echo_419]

here is what we need

http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.in/2013/09/kel-tec-762x51mm-rfb-bullpup-rifle.html

We need a homegrown solution for this problem

 

[GURU DUTT]

We need a homegrown solution for this problem

why cant we make an excalibur with 7.62X51mm X18.5 or 24 inch barrel housed in bullpup body i wonder how hard it is it would be very easy to control and have very less muzzle raise in full auto very compact and relaible yet very economical lets see what our IITan DM can do about it it may be difficult but not impossible

 

[Beny Karachun]

do they have a tavor with 7.62X51mm with 18.5 and 24 inch barrel ?

Not that I know of, I do know they have 7.62x35mm 300AAC Blackout one. They have done many modifications and I cant see why they wont make a 7.62x51mm one.
The longest barrel length yet is 18.1 inches for the Tavor.

 

[Hellfire]

The GSQR of IA has finally become static (hopefully; In 2010 it was expected that M-4s and Tavors would be inducted into IA) with the sense prevailing that the personal weapon of a soldier should be effective at "killing" rather than injuring/maiming seeing that the majority of combat for IA is limited to Counter Insurgency/Terror scenarios.

Anyways, INSAS presently in service with Army is a fair enough weapon at 450+ meters with a very controlled 'splay' in two rounds (not double tap) at the said range. However, in the CQB scenario, I would still prefer a Vz-58 over it any day.