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Indian Army ill-prepared for war

why not put them to some use.
I can also post pak media sources catching Indian animals which crossed the border into pak but it would be stupid on a defense forum.



And Believe me, its not about the question of capability but political will power, you being a victim of our aggression should know better. Indira and AB Vajpai never had to think twice.


You know catching Pigeons, blowing up fishing boats and shooting down balloons doesn't exactly prove your three pronged capability.

Off course not, the world see our capability when Indian Army dominates highest Battlefield on Earth while deploy at - 50 degree and 24/7 365 days.

conduct operations at far off places both Military and Logistics.

The world see our capabilities when we prepare for Two Front wars with out Tactical Nukes.

This is our Military capability

Remember this Place ?


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Dont act like a moron ...if the news is old then delete and move on.dont justify it.

How can u be a admin..@horus .u are one of the biggest troll out here.
If u dont have anything to contribute atleast respect the post of admin.n dont indulge in troll.u should be someone we all should respect n look up to.
Perfectly nailed it my dear friend,however this may be the old article that prompted India to modernize there defence forces.
now its 2016.
 
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It's your country fellow who wrote the article.
On the contrary, you people have written a whole volume on terminologies, why not put them to some use.
You know catching Pigeons, blowing up fishing boats and shooting down balloons doesn't exactly prove your three pronged capability.
You have not answer to the post windjameer by Jamwal
 
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I can also post pak media sources catching Indian animals which crossed the border into pak but it would be stupid on a defense forum.
And did we claim that they were spy monkeys or cows and made a fool of ourselves by splashing the news across the media...NO....it's only an Indian speciality.



And Believe me, its not about the question of capability but political will power, you being a victim of our aggression should know better. Indira and AB Vajpai never had to think twice.

You showed your so called aggression when you were at an advantage, but sat around sulking for a whole year when the playing fields were level.... READ THE OP FOR A REALITY CHECK.



Off course not, the world see our capability when Indian Army dominates highest Battlefield on Earth while deploy at - 50 degree and 24/7 365 days.

conduct operations at far off places both Military and Logistics.

The world see our capabilities when we prepare for Two Front wars with out Tactical Nukes.

This is our Military capability

Remember this Place ?

Rather than repeatedly running back to the likes of 1971 to comfort your self, look a little closer to present times, just because unlike you we don't make a song and dance about every detail doesn't change some ground realities.
All this from your own media.

http://www.thehindu.com/2000/08/26/stories/03260002.htm

http://archive.tehelka.com/story_main4.asp?filename=Ne071704pakistan_still.asp

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/near-tiger-hill-point-5353-still-pakoccupied/488505/
 
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Even a very well prepared and rehearsed plan in 1965 didn't work out. When China was preparing to attack India, and this was brought to the notice of Mr. Nehru, he replied, "Forget about China, concentrate on Pak." That means they were even ready to let a part of their country go to China but recapture Pak at any cost to prove their apprehensions about Pak true in verbatim. And, it must have all started in 1948.

Even to a novice like me it's quite obvious that 1965 war plan was done in tandem with the tacit approval and active military hardware support from the major powers of that time for they wanted Pak to be dead and gone forever. Almost simultaneous attacks on Lahore and Sialkot sectors, where Pak defenses were most unprepared, with overwhelming forces testify that very high world-class levels of intelligence and battle plans were available to the Indian Army along with precious logistics. It must have been a ploy to keep the crux of the Pak Army busy in Kashmir sector when death blows to the heartlands were about to be launched.


Lol whose history book have you been reading troll?

The 1965 was started by Op Gibraltar by Pakistan ... read history and then come here ... stop trolling
 
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And did we claim that they were spy monkeys or cows and made a fool of ourselves by splashing the news across the media...NO....it's only an Indian speciality.
And somehow "arrest" is the word which apply for both humans and beasts in Pak.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-india-border/2011/12/05/gIQABMBmWO_blog.html


You showed your so called aggression when you were at an advantage, but sat around sulking for a whole year when the playing fields were level.... READ THE OP FOR A REALITY CHECK.

Advantage ! where, the above pics of Siachen where Pak had the advantage of Height. Remember Qaid Post ?


As for Op Parakram , why should India reply proxy war with conventional war.

Rather than repeatedly running back to the likes of 1971

Where did i mentioned 1971 ?

It seems the trauma has embedded in your Psyche


Ah pt 5353, the only thing you bring to salvage some pride otherwise a disastrous Kargil OP - where after loosing 100s of Men, Pak Gained Nothing.

There were 140 ~ peaks in kargil sector why bring only one.

And even that peak was captured by India in 1971 and forced Pak to sign Shimla Agreement.

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This is from Brig Javed Hussian former SSG


In October 1947, following the announcement of Kashmir’s accession to India, the Gilgit Scouts, a predominantly Muslim force raised by the British for internal security, revolted against the Dogras, and in a series of daring actions in1948 captured Kargil, Drass, Zoji La Pass and Skardu. However, in November 1948, Zoji La Pass and Kargil were recaptured by the Indians while the Kargil heights remained with the Gilgit Scouts.

During the Rann of Kutch conflict, these heights were captured by the Indians for the first time on May 17, 1965, for use as a bargaining counter in the negotiations. As a result of the agreement reached, the heights were returned to Pakistan in June 1965. In the first week of August 1965, Operation Gibraltar was launched. One of the areas used by the infiltrating force was the Kargil heights. To block these routes, the Indians captured the heights for the second time in the third week of August 1965. But after the signing of the Tashkent Agreement, the heights were once again returned to Pakistan.




On the outbreak of war on the western front on December 3, 1971, the Indians captured the heights for the third time on December 9, 1971. This time, however, they retained the heights in line with the Shimla Agreement under which the violable Cease Fire Line (CFL), created in December 1948 on cessation of hostilities in Kashmir, was converted into an inviolable Line of Control (LoC), on the basis of actual possession of territory at the time of the ceasefire in December 1971. When the Indians captured the heights on three different occasions, the Pakistani force that was overwhelmed, consisted mostly of lightly armed, inadequately equipped Karakoram and Gilgit Scouts, both paramilitary outfits.


http://www.dawn.com/news/1069510


 
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Lol whose history book have you been reading troll?

The 1965 was started by Op Gibraltar by Pakistan ... read history and then come here ... stop trolling
You need bit more study , instead of trolling on credible posts, plz focus on digging stuff out side Indian history text books.
Also, do learn the difference between LOC & international border, Covert operation in disputed territory vs Mechanized assault on neighbour territory.......

:coffee:
 
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You need bit more study , instead of trolling on credible posts, plz focus on digging stuff out side Indian history text books.
Also, do learn the difference between LOC & international border, Covert operation in disputed territory vs Mechanized assault on neighbour territory.......

:coffee:

Usually with an all out assault like they attempted in Lahore, you would announce it first. The Indians didn't do that as a result Pakistan was caught COMPLETELY off guard yet they ran away back to Bharat. Lol no chai in Gymkhana for them. They got slapped in low intensity warfare and high intensity :D.
 
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7 years late buddy, 7 years.


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By Siddharth Srivastava

NEW DELHI - Reluctance for battle by an ill-prepared army could have resulted in India not launching an attack on Pakistan in the aftermath of the Pakistan-linked terror attack in the Indian city of Mumbai on November 26 in which nearly 200 people died.

High-level government sources have told Asia Times Online that army commanders impressed on the political leadership in New Delhi that an inadequate and obsolete arsenal at their disposal mitigated against an all-out war.

The navy and air force, however, had given the government the go-ahead about their preparedness to carry out an attack and repulse
any retaliation from Pakistan.


Over the past few weeks, it has become increasingly apparent from top officials in the know that the closed-door meetings of top military commanders and political leaders discussed the poor state of the armory (both ammunition and artillery), and that this tilted the balance in favor of not striking at Pakistan.

According to senior officials, following the attack on Mumbai by 10 militants linked to Pakistan, India's top leadership looked at two options closely - war and hot pursuit.

Largely for the reasons cited above, the notion of an all-out war was rejected. Hot pursuit, however, remains very much on the table.

The government sources say that a framework for covert operations is being put in place, although India will continue to deny such actions. Crack naval, air and army forces backed by federal intelligence agencies will be involved. The target areas will be Pakistan-administered Kashmir and areas along the Punjab, such as Multan, where some of the Mumbai attackers are believed to have been recruited.

The coastal belt from the southern port city of Karachi to Gwadar in Balochistan province will also be under active Indian surveillance.

Thumbs down to war
Following the Mumbai attack, New Delhi's inclination was to launch a quick strike against Pakistan to impress domestic opinion, and then be prepared for a short war, given the pressures that would be exercised by international powers for a ceasefire to prevent nuclear war breaking out.

The expectation of New Delhi was that the war would go beyond the traditional skirmishes involving artillery fire that take place at the Kashmir border, essentially to check infiltration by militants, or the brief but bloody exchanges at Kargil in 1999.

It was in this context that the army made it apparent that it was not equipped to fight such a war, given the military's presence along the eastern Chinese borders, and that India was at risk of ceding territory should an instant ceasefire be brokered with Pakistan.

This would have been highly embarrassing, not to mention political suicide for the Congress-led government in an election year. So instead, New Delhi restricted itself to a strident diplomatic offensive that continues to date, and the option of hot pursuit.

The air force, on the other hand, was confident that it was prepared to take on the first retaliatory action by Pakistan, expected at forward air force bases along India's borders in Rajasthan, Gujarat and Indian-administered Kashmir. The role of the navy in the operations was not clearly defined, but it was to cover from the Arabian Sea.

Not ready to fight
Various experts, former generals and independent reports have voiced concern over the past few years about the state of preparedness of the Indian army.

For example, the Bofors gun scandal of the 1980s stymied the army's artillery modernization plan, with no induction of powerful guns since the 1986 purchase of 410 Bofors 155mm/39-caliber howitzers. The army has been trying to introduce 400 such guns from abroad and another 1,100 manufactured domestically, without success.

The latest report by the independent Comptroller and Auditor General said the state's production of 23mm ammunition for Shilka anti-aircraft cannons and 30mm guns mounted on infantry combat vehicles lacked quality. Further, supply was nearly 35% short of requirements.

India's huge tank fleet is in bad shape due to a shortage of Russian spare parts, while indigenous efforts, such as the main battle tank Arjun, have failed.

Signs of trouble emerged during the Kargil war when it was revealed that India's defense forces were dealing with acute shortages in every sphere.

In remarks that underscored the problems, the then-army chief, V P Malik, said his forces would make do with whatever was in hand, given the fears of a full-scale war that was eventually avoided due to pressure by America, then under president Bill Clinton.

The Kargil review committee report noted, "The heavy involvement of the army in counter-insurgency operations cannot but affect its preparedness for its primary role, which is to defend the country against external aggression."

Although there have been attempts to hasten India's overall defense modernization program, estimated at over US$50 billion over the next five years, gaping holes need to be plugged, including corruption and massive delays in the defense procurement processes.

India's defense expenditure has dipped below 2% of gross domestic product for the first time in decades, despite experts pegging 3% as adequate.

Other defense arms are in dire need of enhancement. Fighter jet squadrons are much below required strength, while the bidding process for medium fighter planes has only just begun and may take a few years to complete.

Meanwhile, the prospects of an India-Pakistan conflict are not over. India's army chief, General Deepak Kapoor, said last week that Pakistan had redeployed troops from its Afghan border to the western frontier with India. "The Indian army has factored this in its planning," Kapoor said.

Siddharth Srivastava is a New Delhi-based journalist. He can be reached at sidsri@yahoo.com.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KA21Df02.html
 
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I have more "thanks" to my name than any member in the history of this board, you know why?, because i say how things really are, i give people's feelings a voice on this platform and sometimes the policy. I am no prophet, nor i claim to have the crystal ball, but being a student of warfare, i can assure you that the next attack on the sovereignty of India's Muslims living in Pakistan will be India's last war. We will burn in an open air hell together.

And you got 8 thanks for this sentence?:what:
And will you be able to see that? given the perception that you are on Pakistan at that time!!

As a student of history, warfare and geopolitics i believe that we still have a chance to un-**** this region, the window of opportunity however is being made smaller and smaller by the rise of Hindu nationalism in Indian corridors of power. You people don't realize it.

Wait I Still Believe & Hope in :pleasantry:
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