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Indian AMCA proposal

Martian2

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There are three things you should know about the Indian AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) proposal.

1. The project has been halted (see citation below).

2. From the pictures that I've seen, the AMCA airduct looks straight and lacks a S-duct design. Basically, it's not stealthy.

3. The Indian AMCA is a very short aircraft design. If the project is ever restarted and the plane built in the distant future, I don't think there's room for a S-duct.

The Chengdu J-20 is 20.3m in length. The F-22 is 18.9m in length. A 19m or 20m long airplane permits a gradual curve in the S-duct to allow air to flow smoothly during supercruise.

The proposed Indian AMCA is only 13.2m in length. There is not enough length to accommodate an aerodynamic serpentine duct.

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Right now, AMCA is vaporware

Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project | The Sunday Standard

"Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project
By NC Bipindra - NEW DELHI
Published: 21st Apr 2013 10:16:44 AM

5hRt3P9.jpg


Troubles in India’s ambitious Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project has inflicted gaping wounds where it would hurt the Indian Air Force (IAF) the most—the future plans for an Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has “put on hold” the AMCA project that is being spearheaded by Defence Research and Development Organisation’s (DRDO) Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

The reason for the sudden decision to send the AMCA project—which began in right earnest in 2006 as the Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) development in 2006—to cold storage is to help ADA to focus all its energies to first work on completing the much-delayed LCA project. “The AMCA has been put on hold for the moment. This decision was taken recently to let the ADA focus on the LCA project,” top Defence Ministry sources told The Sunday Standard. The AMCA project, for which the IAF provided the final Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQR) in April 2010, may be taken up at a later date, sources said. But that will still be far away in the future.

India will buy Rafale planes from the French Dassault Aviation as part of its 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA); in the tender there is a provision to buy another 63 as a follow-on order. That apart, India is working on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) in collaboration with Russia. With the final agreement on the design and development of the FGFA three months away, India will get at least 140 FGFAs for induction by 2027. Considering that most of the capabilities of AMCA will be covered by the MMRCA and FGFA planes, the revival of the AMCA will be a well thought-out one, sources said.

The AMCA’s envisaged features include stealth, multi-role operations, adequate precision strike capabilities, including critical first-day missions such as Suppression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) and Destruction of Enemy Air Defence (DEAD).

The much-touted Tejas has taken 30 years already, at an escalated project cost of Rs 5,489 crore. Since the LCA project was sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, the time overrun has resulted in a 10-fold increase in the project cost. The plane is yet to get even its Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) so that the IAF could take the plane for a spin. But sources pointed out that the LCA still lacks certain critical capabilities, including a reliable radar, and is deficient in at least 100 technical parameters. “The plane cannot fly on its own. It needs a lifeline in the form of support and monitoring of its systems from the ground by technicians,” they said.

The LCA, in fact, gave creditable flying displays during the AeroIndia show in Yelahanka in Bangalore in February this year, and followed it up with weapons firing to hit both ground and aerial targets during the Iron Fist fire power display by the IAF in the Rajasthan’s Pokhran ranges, again in February this year. “The common man thinks the plane is doing fine, its engine sounds great and the manoeuvres are perfect. But those flying and weapons firing displays are done with ground monitoring and support. The plane is still not ready to flying on its own,” sources stressed. Their guess is the LCA may not meet its schedule of obtaining the IOC before July this year and it could take till December this year or early next year before it is ready. To give an example of LCA’s troubles, the sources noted that LCA was grounded for three months between September and December 2012 following problems with its landing gear. “Normally, a combat plane is ready for its next sortie following a 30-minute attention from ground service personnel soon after it has returned from a mission. In the case of LCA, after a single sortie of about an hour or so, it needs three days of servicing before it can go for its next sortie,” they said.

At present, the IAF has placed an order for 40 LCAs Mk1 to raise two squadrons by 2016-17 with HAL which is the nodal agency for production of Tejas. But these will be delivered with the American General Electric F404 engines which provide only 80 Kilo Newton power.

Later, 80 more LCAs of its Mk2 version will be ordered for raising four more squadrons. The LCA Mk2 will be powered by the GE F414 engines that provide a 90 Kilo Newton thrust."

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Indian AMCA lacks S-duct stealth design

m6PfTVP.jpg

Indian AMCA lacks S-duct stealth design. Red arrows show straight airflow.

With the lack of a S-duct design, radar will reflect off of the engine fan blades and the current AMCA will look like a fourth-generation fighter to radar.

Real AMCA doesn't have room for S-duct

In the following diagram for the AMCA, it is clear there is very little room for the airduct and the weapon bay.

kpQimgH.jpg

AMCA has straight airducts.

In any case, if the AMCA is ever built, I will use real photographs to prove that it has straight airducts.

TSOlNEx.jpg

In this unrealistic Indian cartoon illustration, I can still draw a straight line for a direct radar reflection.

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Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft
...
Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)"
 
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^^ hold your horses , AMCA is just in concept stages, design can vary drastically in coming stages , IF we decide to go ahead with the project in future.
 
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AMCA has straight airducts.

In any case, if the AMCA is ever built, I will use real photographs to prove that it has straight airducts.

TSOlNEx.jpg

In this unrealistic Indian cartoon illustration, I can still draw a straight line for a direct radar reflection.

----------

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft
...
Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)"

Agreed you managed to draw a straight line through those unrealistic cartoon of ours, but hey for a radar to catch the signal the straight line of yours must also come out of the air-intakes somehow. Looking at the way you have drawn a line, It seems that the line of yours should have artificial intelligence to find its way out.

Let me show you something interesting.

These are the first official DRDO images of fabrication of compact advanced serpentine air-intakes, intended for preliminary studies on performance

AMCA_INTAKE.jpg


And the below picture you see is straight from the ADA during a documentary of DRDO from Discovery. Watch closely on its air intakes.

amca5.jpg
 
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i doubt AMCA would be even as good as J-31 let alone the rest of world 5th gen fighter

may be as good as J2x
 
.
There are three things you should know about the Indian AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) proposal.

1. The project has been halted (see citation below).

2. From the pictures that I've seen, the AMCA airduct looks straight and lacks a S-duct design. Basically, it's not stealthy.

3. The Indian AMCA is a very short aircraft design. If the project is ever restarted and the plane built in the distant future, I don't think there's room for a S-duct.

The Chengdu J-20 is 20.3m in length. The F-22 is 18.9m in length. A 19m or 20m long airplane permits a gradual curve in the S-duct to allow air to flow smoothly during supercruise.

The proposed Indian AMCA is only 13.2m in length. There is not enough length to accommodate an aerodynamic serpentine duct.

----------

Right now, AMCA is vaporware

Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project | The Sunday Standard

"Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project
By NC Bipindra - NEW DELHI
Published: 21st Apr 2013 10:16:44 AM

5hRt3P9.jpg


Troubles in India’s ambitious Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project has inflicted gaping wounds where it would hurt the Indian Air Force (IAF) the most—the future plans for an Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has “put on hold” the AMCA project that is being spearheaded by Defence Research and Development Organisation’s (DRDO) Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

The reason for the sudden decision to send the AMCA project—which began in right earnest in 2006 as the Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) development in 2006—to cold storage is to help ADA to focus all its energies to first work on completing the much-delayed LCA project. “The AMCA has been put on hold for the moment. This decision was taken recently to let the ADA focus on the LCA project,” top Defence Ministry sources told The Sunday Standard. The AMCA project, for which the IAF provided the final Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQR) in April 2010, may be taken up at a later date, sources said. But that will still be far away in the future.

India will buy Rafale planes from the French Dassault Aviation as part of its 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA); in the tender there is a provision to buy another 63 as a follow-on order. That apart, India is working on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) in collaboration with Russia. With the final agreement on the design and development of the FGFA three months away, India will get at least 140 FGFAs for induction by 2027. Considering that most of the capabilities of AMCA will be covered by the MMRCA and FGFA planes, the revival of the AMCA will be a well thought-out one, sources said.

The AMCA’s envisaged features include stealth, multi-role operations, adequate precision strike capabilities, including critical first-day missions such as Suppression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) and Destruction of Enemy Air Defence (DEAD).

The much-touted Tejas has taken 30 years already, at an escalated project cost of Rs 5,489 crore. Since the LCA project was sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, the time overrun has resulted in a 10-fold increase in the project cost. The plane is yet to get even its Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) so that the IAF could take the plane for a spin. But sources pointed out that the LCA still lacks certain critical capabilities, including a reliable radar, and is deficient in at least 100 technical parameters. “The plane cannot fly on its own. It needs a lifeline in the form of support and monitoring of its systems from the ground by technicians,” they said.

The LCA, in fact, gave creditable flying displays during the AeroIndia show in Yelahanka in Bangalore in February this year, and followed it up with weapons firing to hit both ground and aerial targets during the Iron Fist fire power display by the IAF in the Rajasthan’s Pokhran ranges, again in February this year. “The common man thinks the plane is doing fine, its engine sounds great and the manoeuvres are perfect. But those flying and weapons firing displays are done with ground monitoring and support. The plane is still not ready to flying on its own,” sources stressed. Their guess is the LCA may not meet its schedule of obtaining the IOC before July this year and it could take till December this year or early next year before it is ready. To give an example of LCA’s troubles, the sources noted that LCA was grounded for three months between September and December 2012 following problems with its landing gear. “Normally, a combat plane is ready for its next sortie following a 30-minute attention from ground service personnel soon after it has returned from a mission. In the case of LCA, after a single sortie of about an hour or so, it needs three days of servicing before it can go for its next sortie,” they said.

At present, the IAF has placed an order for 40 LCAs Mk1 to raise two squadrons by 2016-17 with HAL which is the nodal agency for production of Tejas. But these will be delivered with the American General Electric F404 engines which provide only 80 Kilo Newton power.

Later, 80 more LCAs of its Mk2 version will be ordered for raising four more squadrons. The LCA Mk2 will be powered by the GE F414 engines that provide a 90 Kilo Newton thrust."

----------

Indian AMCA lacks S-duct stealth design

m6PfTVP.jpg

Indian AMCA lacks S-duct stealth design. Red arrows show straight airflow.

With the lack of a S-duct design, radar will reflect off of the engine fan blades and the current AMCA will look like a fourth-generation fighter to radar.

Real AMCA doesn't have room for S-duct

In the following diagram for the AMCA, it is clear there is very little room for the airduct and the weapon bay.

kpQimgH.jpg

AMCA has straight airducts.

In any case, if the AMCA is ever built, I will use real photographs to prove that it has straight airducts.

TSOlNEx.jpg

In this unrealistic Indian cartoon illustration, I can still draw a straight line for a direct radar reflection.

----------

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft
...
Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)"

A very old news.

The project initiated to develop next generation aircraft with less cost.The aircraft is not shaped for all aspect stealth, like the US Raptor (F-22) or the Chinese Chengdu J-20. Instead, shaping is optimized to minimize frontal Radar Cross Section (RCS).The AMCA blends stealth with maneuverability, while keeping costs affordable.

AMCA%20Aero%20India%202013%201.JPG

Official scale model shown at aero india 2013


ADA has made little attempt to reduce the radar signature of the aircraft from the rear, relying almost entirely on a reduced IR signature instead. A reduced RCS from the rear is difficult to achieve without very advanced engine technology represented by shaped exhaust nozzles as in the case of the Raptor, or a compromise on performance.

Article already posted and discussed in PDF.
 
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i doubt AMCA would be even as good as J-31 let alone the rest of world 5th gen fighter

may be as good as J2x

Going by the friendship our two nations share, even if it is better than the contemporary it would always remain worse than anything you have.
 
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Again ??? I though @gambit answered your stealth concepts in other thread. Why are you posting same crap again ???
Or wait you are willing to try it with @sancho ???

And plz remove those US flags. What's obsession with those ???
@IndianArmy do you really think @Martian is posting this to discuss ??? I hope not
 
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i doubt AMCA would be even as good as J-31 let alone the rest of world 5th gen fighter

may be as good as J2x

What technical parameters do you know about J-31 or AMCA ??? How do you compare them ??? How authentic are they ??? Are you willing to discuss or its just like every other kid pitch for his Dady so think accordingly.
 
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@Martian2:
The pic you have posted is not correct representation.It was made by some member if BR,which was horribly wrong.length of 13.2M is wrong,heck its even less than LCA ,it will be around 16-17m.
TSOlNEx.jpg

There is nothing wrong with your illustration.Serpentine intakes are covered with RAM so,waves will be absorbed after reflecting back from GT compressor blades. @farhaan_9909:what is world 5th gen fighter?.
 
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@ Sergi . He is overwhelmed with ecstasy , which the article gave him after years of resentment ,that a nation which he believed to be a land of snake charmers.

My intention was not to burst his bubble anyways.
 
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What kind of people run DRDO or their ministry of defence that they even comprehended such a project. :lol:


hD6D9B480
 
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Proposed Indian AMCA is the same length as the Indian LCA (light combat aircraft)

The proposed Indian AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) has the same 13.2m length as the Indian LCA (light combat aircraft) prototype. Both fighters are extremely small and they're really only point-defense fighters.

Anyway, we'll use the LCA to analyze the viability of a S-duct on the AMCA.

iyB2zr2.jpg

In this LCA cutaway, we can see the engine (which I have highlighted in red) extends beyond the vertical stabilizer.

3Td6xm9.jpg

Looking at the underside of a real LCA, we see that the fuselage in front of the airduct is longer than the engine compartment behind the airduct.

Let's calculate the approximate length of the airduct on the LCA (and hence the AMCA). The LCA is powered by the GE F404 engine, which is 3.9m. The fuselage in front of the LCA is about 5m.

Thus, the length of the LCA/AMCA airduct is:

13.2m - 3.9m (for engine) - 5m (for radome and cockpit) = 4.3m

I believe it is virtually impossible to build a S-duct that permits supercruise in 4.3 meters.
 
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Proposed Indian AMCA is the same length as the Indian LCA (light combat aircraft)

The proposed Indian AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) has the same 13.2m length as the Indian LCA (light combat aircraft) prototype. Both fighters are extremely small and they're really only point-defense fighters.
Your all theory is BS if you can't prove AMCA has 13.2m lenth.
 
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Proposed Indian AMCA is the same length as the Indian LCA (light combat aircraft)

The proposed Indian AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) has the same 13.2m length as the Indian LCA (light combat aircraft) prototype. Both fighters are extremely small and they're really only point-defense fighters.

Anyway, we'll use the LCA to analyze the viability of a S-duct on the AMCA.

@Oscar @ANTIBODY your opinions are needed on above claim. As I failed to find any source which say so and as usual this poster never give any links to prove his any claims.
 
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