Indian Air Base at Pathankot under attack by gunmen.

[cerberus]

IB knows how to handle disinformation.

Cant understand why many people underestimate IB and Indian Intelligence agencies ?

That's the point bro you see the
It was most accurate intel by our agencies in recent times that to pin pointed

Advisory issued by additional DGP of punjab on basis of intel on 31st December itself

Shockingly SP was found being saying the airforce installation might have been target 22 hours prior to attack

 

[bipi@342]

Come on, you are giving very wrong example.

There have been incidents in Britian, France, Russia and Germany who are already members of Nuclear Supplier Group.

Indian security forces such as CISF,CRPF and BSF are well trained and professional force.

I am saying if attack was a success one people can use this reason for opposing India entry

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am of the opinion that peace talks must continue so that the terrorists don't achieve their objective. For once I want to believe NS's govt, that these elements are not backed by the civilian government.

IF what you are saying is accurate (I simply don't know nor do I care- the end result is the same in my opinion) then the issues remains- the Civilian government in Pakistan has no control over specific entities who do not want peace with India so, in that case, what is the point in the talks at all? Lip service for both domestic audiences? Rogue elements or not, the Indian side isn't going to keep taking these hits and remain commited to talks. Yes, some will cry, this is exactly what those elements want but if talking to the civlians is clearly so meaningless that such overt provocations can't be contained by the GoP then it is a lost cause.

I am now of the view that India/US/nor any other external "player" should stop pretending that through being "buddies" or at least "frenemies" with Pakistan that they can influence their internal dynamics. I used think this could be done but I was simply being an idealist, with the internal situation of Pakistan how it is, there simply doesn't seem to be any way to break this talk-violence-talk-repeat cycle between the two.

The trouble with the India-Pakistan issue is that there are too many emotions on both sides. If India decided unilaterally, enough is enough and took a more passive stance to Pakistan and downgraded diplomatic ties- not in a punitive manner, and simply just "exsisted" next to Pakistan going about its own buissnes, not letting itself get drawn into the typical "will it happen? won't it happen?" hype but set a consistent keeping an "arms approach" policy then in the long term you will either have the status quo where it is now or Pakistan is forced to look inwardly, perhaps address some of its issues and try to begin afreash. The incentive being? A now far more prosperous India sat on its doorstep that it can't afford to ignore anymore.

My above prescription isn't going to happen- I know that, but the one part that eventually WILL be the pacifying factor between these two sides is economics. Right now it is what it is, the gap is large but the stage India is at in its devlopment still exposes a lot of areas (poverty and sanitation )many can use to satisify their insecurity regardless of realities. But the gap is going to grow and grow meteorically- there is simply no denying it. At some point the Pakistanis will look at India (and to be fair others in the region like Sri Lanka and perhaps BD) and then their own state of affairs and ask "what exactly is going so wrong for us?" One after one many Pakistanis will start to see through their blinkered their of India, the reality of the progress India has made over them will not be as easily belittled by other inconseqntial factors and the narrative of the "establishment" (whomever you term this to be) of "evil India" being xyz but "pure" Pakistan being a paradise will wear very thin until the internal displeasure of the actions of elements in Pakistan reaches a critical mass and actually start behaving in a logical, value seeking, fashion. No matter what one reads from certain members on here about the likes of Hafiz Saeed being a nobody or hated just as much as any other terrorist is simply not true, the silent majority in Pakistan supports the status quo inside Pakistan.

I'm not saying India is a utopia nor its population free of a vast number of cockroaches BUT the trajactories of the two nations are very, very different and that tells a story in itself. When the Pakistanis start asking "why not us too?" in respect to India's acheivements you wil see a change in the way this entire relationship is framed and the oh so central "K" issue will be forgotten like yesterday's morning toothbrushing.

He's a Professional & you'll not understand his Professional Point of View. Hence, no point replying to his post as he's been posting loathe of crap since few days in this thread.

So you're telling me you don't have any updates on OUR homeland either??

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

Pakistan must be a proud country today.........Really what an achievement

False Flagger Alert !

 

[Levina]

IF what you are saying is accurate (I simply don't know nor do I care- the end result is the same in my opinion) then the issues remains- the Civilian government in Pakistan has no control over specific entities who do not want peace with India so, in that case, what is the point in the talks at all? Lip service for both domestic audiences? Rogue elements or not, the Indian side isn't going to keep taking these hits remain commited to talks. Yes, some will cry, this is exactly what those elements want but if talking to the civlians is clearly so meaningless that such overt provokocations can't be contained by the GoP then it is a lost cause.

I am now of the view that India/US/any other should stop pretending that through being "buddies" or at least "frenemies" with Pakistan that they can influence their internal dynamics. I used think this could be done but I was simply being an idealist, with the internal situation of Pakistan how it is, there simply doesn't seem to be any way to break this talk-violence-talk-repeat cycle between the two.

The trouble with the India-Pakistan issue is that there are too many emotions on both sides. If India decided unilaterally, enough is enough and took a more passive stance to Pakistan and downgraded diplomatic ties- not in a punitive manner, and simply just "exsisted" next to Pakistan going about its own buissnes, not letting itself get drawn into the typical "will it happen? won't it happen?" hype but set a consistent keeping an "arms approach" policy then in the long term you will either have the status quo where it is now or Pakistan is forced to look inwardly, perhaps address some of its issues and try to begin afreash. The incentive being? A now far more prosperous India sat on its doorstep that it can't afford to ignore anymore.

My above prescription isn't going to happen- I know that, but the one part that eventually WILL be the pacifying factor between these two sides is economics. Right now it is what it is, the gap is large but the stage India is at in its devlopment still exposes a lot of areas (poverty and sanitation )many can use to satisify their insecurity regardless of realities. But the gap is going to grow and grow meteorically- there is simply no denying it. At some point the Pakistanis will look at India (and to be fair others in the region like Sri Lanka and perhaps BD) and then their own state of affairs and ask "what exactly is going so wrong for us?" One after one many Pakistanis will start to see through their blinkered their of India, the reality of the progress India has made over them will not be as easily belittled by other inconseqntial factors and the narrative of the "establishment" (whomever you term this to be) of "evil India" being xyz but "pure" Pakistan being a paradise will wear very thin until the internal displeasure of the actions of elements in Pakistan reaches a critical mass and actually start behaving in a logical, value seeking, fashion. No matter what one reads from certain members on here about the likes of Hafiz Saeed being a nobody or hated just as much as any other terrorist is simply not true, the silent majority in Pakistan supports the status quo inside Pakistan.

I'm not saying India is a utopia nor its population free of a vast number of cockroaches BUT the trajactories of the two nations are very, very different and that tells a story in itself. When the Pakistanis start asking "why not us too?" in respect to India's acheivements you wil see a change in the way this entire relationship is framed and the oh so central "K" issue will be forgotten like yesterday's morning toothbrushing.


So you're telling me you don't have any updates on OUR homeland either??

I don't know if you have read my thread.
De-hyphenating India-Pakistan!!

I changed my stance after our NSA and PM decided to thaw relations with Pakistan.
Waiting for Jan 14 when our foreign
Secretaries will meet.

 

[Parul]

Correct. I'm not aware of any updates on Khalistan uprising in Punjab even though some of my family is living in Ludiana and other parts of Punjab.

A_sad Miah has contacts with Khalistani generals who fought in East Pakistan Libration War. Hence, he's most updated on this subject.

So you're telling me you don't have any updates on OUR homeland either??

Indira Gandhi's assassins eulogised recently and been declared Martyrs (I was present at Gurdwara when it happened), but our Professional doesn't have any information on it.

False Flagger Alert !

Has Terrorist been neutralised or not?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't know if you have read my thread.
De-hyphenating India-Pakistan!!

Thanks for the link, I have to say I agree with the entire prescription. With cold/"at arm's distance" relations between the two sides the level of ingrained antipothy that makes this relationship so unworkable today will have seen a signficant reduction. Perhaps the best gift the current leaders of India could give to their children and all future genrations in the region could be to push away/shun Pakistan for the foreseeable future- as counter intuative as that seems to be to many (I hear far too many "must talk", "if we aren't talking we are doing something wrong" opnions today).

I changed my stance after our NSA and PM decided to thaw relations with Pakistan.
Waiting for Jan 14 when our foreign
Secretaries will meet.

This has become an almost unimaginably pointless exercise.

1) I wonder what event/revelation/drama either/both side can conjur up ahead of this meeting building up so much attention that the meeting becomes unviable?
2) Even if the above doesn't happen, what is the point? The trust defecit is so high on both sides (I won't aporption blame) that how can any such token meeting amount to anything tanigble long term? I've heard of them being reffered to as baby steps but this is the fetus kicking at the womb of it's mother. Baby steps implies that one is embarking on something that will gain greater independance and signifcane at a later date by compounding such small efforts. However, if there is no momentum built then you will never get beyond this tentative step. As the relationship remains today- something will always come along to scupper the process- elections (on either side), provocations (either accidental or deliberate) etc.


WIthdrawing from the entire arena, publically stating a policy of "removed indifference" is what I think would be the best chance of success at this point. Doing the same thing again and again (as these so-called "CBMs" are) hoping for different results is beyond insanity- it is actually intentional misrepresentation.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Well talked with my source about delay in deployment debate by arnab and also about limited number of ppl on ground. His opinion is as follows

1. The higher foot count does not translate a higher success rate or quicker ops
2. The base is not a flat battle field or mountain top or a normal situation that IA encounters in a village
3. Scope of high collateral damage, hostage situation and fear of using wired detonation for large gathering forces
4. The standard SOP mandates smaller quick reaction teams to aim at either first cornering the hostile, finishing its ammo and then trying to persuade for surrender.. If fails then use bullets in non critical areas or use stun mechanisms like chilli grenades
5. If the hostile is deemed inappropriate for forced capture then the next mandate is neutralisation after the CO of the mission authorising it
6. The base inside and urban combat tactics used exposed limited firing. He used the word non auto trigger but rather two three shots max and then changing position and again waiting to get a clear line of fire to kill the combing forces
7. There was a added tension of securing civilians, not letting them take hostage and ensuring that no time triggered devices are planted and then a suppression tactic usage which makes civilians gather at one place for detonation and max casualties.
8. This issue caused infact much less crack teams for combing a much wider area as most were busy saving civilians and. Securing assets
9. Inside info suggest hostiles did contact handlers. That interception is being now used as a possible proof. Hostiles were also given updates by media for Saturday part.
10. Migs were readied to be flown off in case if the assessment was made that breach probability is high
11. Lastly Delhi instruction was clear about at least one live capture. Strictly from highest office of NSA
12. Behind the scene a sleeper cell who has supported for local recon, weapons and intelligence is clearly understood and is now under scanning to trace and eliminate.
13. The public of certain facts will happen in a press conference but stand assured 95% is watered down and will not be disclosed.
14. A certain call from a country has specifically asked GOI for not naming any country in return for extending all their resources, cooperation and military assistance. The call also said any instability due to renewed hostility will be counter productive but restraint will help put additional pressure to show some actionables.
15. Intel says a possibility of ISIS ops is high during prez hollande visit to India
16. 2 suspects are believed to have infiltrated New Delhi.. That's known but chances are at least 3-4 more already in or in transit to a local sleeper cell for the target recon info and weapons.
17. New Delhi is already in high alert covertly.
18. Mumbai is also informed to have some more stringent checkpoints and maintain lookout.

This is what I got..

 

[v9s]

Pakistan working on ‘leads’ provided by India to counter terrorism
Irfan Haider — Updated 16 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Monday said it is working on “leads provided by the Indian government to effectively counter and eradicate terrorism” from the region.

In a statement, the Foreign Office said “in line with its commitment, Pakistan’s government is in touch with the Indian government” to address the problem.

The FO statement comes as sections of Indian media reported that New Delhi shared information with Islamabad on the Pathankot airbase attack.

Times of India reported that Indian National Security Advsier Ajit Doval provided “leads” on the Pathankot Air Force base terror attack to his Pakistani counterpart Naseer Khan Janjua and sought credible action on them.

A report on The Hindustan Times claims India shared with Pakistan the intercepts of calls made to Pakistan-based handlers by the terrorists who attacked the Pathankot airbase.

Condemning the attack on the Indian Air Force base in Pathankot, the FO spokesman said, “We understand the pain of many families who have lost their dear ones in this tragedy, as Pakistan itself is a major victim of terrorism.”

“We have extended our deepest condolences to the government and people of India,” he added.

He said the two countries share a common history and should remain committed to a sustained dialogue process.

“The challenge of terrorism calls for strengthening our resolve to a cooperative approach.”

Earlier on Monday, an alliance of Kashmiri militant groups claimed the attack on the Pathankot airbase.

The United Jihad Council (UJC) said in a statement that the attack was a message to India that Kashmiri fighters could strike at any sensitive installation across India.

The deadly attack on the Pathankot airbase started before dawn on Saturday and gunbattles between the militants and Indian forces continued into the third day as Indian forces conducted a search operation to clear the sprawling facility late Monday night.

At least seven Indian troops and five attackers have been killed in the in the siege.

The Pathankot airbase in Indian Punjab is a mere 50 km from the Pakistan border, and is a major forward operational airbase of the IAF.

 

[Mrc]

Off course they will work on leads uf they are viable... we cannot have non state actors dictating their own agenda

 

[Albatross]

Off course they will work on leads uf they are viable... we cannot have non state actors dictating their own agenda

Agree with you if India can provide any actable info regarding any relation of Pak based people with these attacks such people should be neutralized in the same way as we act against people who kills our soldiers.

But if this attack as claimed is done by Kashmiris at their own with their own resources then I support them as that's what happens when you suppress people for decades and kill their sons and rape their daughters.

We Pakistanis support the right of kashmiris to self determination as per UN resolutions and should continue to support it and raise it at all forums forcing india to act on UN resolutions but we should in no way support any armed movement as that will only weaken our legit demand of referendum in Kashmir.

But if Kashmiris pick up arms at their own to avenge their Martyrs I fully support them like I support Palestinians against Israel but we don't give Palestinians any arms.

Indians should learn aggression only brings aggression and bullets are always replied with bullets and that's what Kashmiris are doing.

And I am sure that is the current official and actual Pak stance as well.

 

[@nline]

Yet another planned propaganda against Pakistan!

 

[Albatross]

Off course they will work on leads uf they are viable... we cannot have non state actors dictating their own agenda

Fully agree with you If india can provide us with any actable info regarding Pak people role in any capacity in this attack we should neutralize them as we act against people who kill our soldiers.

We Pakistanis support Kashmiris right of self determination as per UN resolutions and should raise our voice at all forums compelling India to follow UN resolution but we should in no way support any armed movement in Kashmir aor else where in India as that will only weaken our legit claim of a referendum in Kashmir.

But if Kashmiris carry out such attacks at their own with their own resources to avenge their martyrs and raped sisters I fully support them like I support Palestinians against Israel but remember we don't give Palestinians any weapons .

And given sohpiticated tools and thousands of soldiers India employ on LOC and IB near Kashmir I am sure even Indian top brass knows its not Pakistan who is supplying weapons or people its now Kashmiris themselves tired of Indian aggression and inhumane acts but they wont accept it in public as their politics run on anti Pak rant.

Indian policies of aggression and suppression have caused this and will be responsible for any such attacks in future as well and what Indians need to understand is aggression only bring back aggression and bullets are always replied with bullets and that's what is happening . By blaming Pakistan they cant get a clean chit as whole world knows their human rights record in Kashmir and else where in India where independence movement are flourishing like naxals and Maoists.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

salute Sub Fateh Singh, Lance Naik Kulwant Singh, Lance Naik Mool Raj, Sepoy Jagdish Chand and Sepoy Sajiwan Kumar, of
Defence Security Corps (DSC), who lost their lives while fighting terrorists at the # Pathankot Air Base. We deeply mourn this unfortunate incident and pray to Almighty to give strength
to their family members to bear the irreparable loss. May their soul rest in peace.

Fully agree with you If india can provide us with any actable info regarding Pak people role in any capacity in this attack we should neutralize them as we act against people who kill our soldiers.

We Pakistanis support Kashmiris right of self determination as per UN resolutions and should raise our voice at all forums compelling India to follow UN resolution but we should in no way support any armed movement in Kashmir aor else where in India as that will only weaken our legit claim of a referendum in Kashmir.

But if Kashmiris carry out such attacks at their own with their own resources to avenge their martyrs and raped sisters I fully support them like I support Palestinians against Israel but remember we don't give Palestinians any weapons .

And given sohpiticated tools and thousands of soldiers India employ on LOC and IB near Kashmir I am sure even Indian top brass knows its not Pakistan who is supplying weapons or people its now Kashmiris themselves tired of Indian aggression and inhumane acts but they wont accept it in public as their politics run on anti Pak rant.

Indian policies of aggression and suppression have caused this and will be responsible for any such attacks in future as well and what Indians need to understand is aggression only bring back aggression and bullets are always replied with bullets and that's what is happening . By blaming Pakistan they cant get a clean chit as whole world knows their human rights record in Kashmir and else where in India where independence movement are flourishing like naxals and Maoists.

Before writting letters in bolds make sure ur own hands are clean. I dont want to bring up Peshawar, Mehran, GHQ etc to portray the same image of Pakistan to you.

 

[sathya]

Well talked with my source about delay in deployment debate by arnab and also about limited number of ppl on ground. His opinion is as follows

1. The higher foot count does not translate a higher success rate or quicker ops
2. The base is not a flat battle field or mountain top or a normal situation that IA encounters in a village
3. Scope of high collateral damage, hostage situation and fear of using wired detonation for large gathering forces
4. The standard SOP mandates smaller quick reaction teams to aim at either first cornering the hostile, finishing its ammo and then trying to persuade for surrender.. If fails then use bullets in non critical areas or use stun mechanisms like chilli grenades
5. If the hostile is deemed inappropriate for forced capture then the next mandate is neutralisation after the CO of the mission authorising it
6. The base inside and urban combat tactics used exposed limited firing. He used the word non auto trigger but rather two three shots max and then changing position and again waiting to get a clear line of fire to kill the combing forces
7. There was a added tension of securing civilians, not letting them take hostage and ensuring that no time triggered devices are planted and then a suppression tactic usage which makes civilians gather at one place for detonation and max casualties.
8. This issue caused infact much less crack teams for combing a much wider area as most were busy saving civilians and. Securing assets
9. Inside info suggest hostiles did contact handlers. That interception is being now used as a possible proof. Hostiles were also given updates by media for Saturday part.
10. Migs were readied to be flown off in case if the assessment was made that breach probability is high
11. Lastly Delhi instruction was clear about at least one live capture. Strictly from highest office of NSA
12. Behind the scene a sleeper cell who has supported for local recon, weapons and intelligence is clearly understood and is now under scanning to trace and eliminate.
13. The public of certain facts will happen in a press conference but stand assured 95% is watered down and will not be disclosed.
14. A certain call from a country has specifically asked GOI for not naming any country in return for extending all their resources, cooperation and military assistance. The call also said any instability due to renewed hostility will be counter productive but restraint will help put additional pressure to show some actionables.
15. Intel says a possibility of ISIS ops is high during prez hollande visit to India
16. 2 suspects are believed to have infiltrated New Delhi.. That's known but chances are at least 3-4 more already in or in transit to a local sleeper cell for the target recon info and weapons.
17. New Delhi is already in high alert covertly.
18. Mumbai is also informed to have some more stringent checkpoints and maintain lookout.

This is what I got..

14. It's obvious it's USA , Pakistan won't mind name calling as its almost a routine for them. Only other possibility is France considering Hollande s visit .