What's new

India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets

Big No to assembling, painting-denting and screw tightening job.

India should consider F-18 if Americans promise to manufacture 50+% of the components in India.
 
Last edited:
.
Big No to assembling, painting-denting and screw level job.

India should consider F-18 if Americans promise to manufacture 50+% of the components in India.

Why not? Chinese started with the assembling job of Su-27. Now they can make pretty much all components.
 
. . . . . .
It may be better for India to focus on reverse engineering. After all, imitation is the first step of learning.
1. Reverse engineering needs regressive repetitive work. You need 10x team size to rev engg any product. India doesnt have money to operate 1 team
2. You also need project specific industries which needs to manufacture the components without any prior experience

India have rarely succeeded in Reverse engineering Russian systems.

1. India planned to rev engg SA-2 SAM in 70's was partial success
2. Indian aim to make ICBM in 70's with 3 liquid stage engine was partial success.
Without expertise in control system, Indian ICBM program behaved more like a unguided Ballistic Missile

Project Devil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project Valiant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project Valiant was one of two early liquid-fueled missile projects developed by India, along with Project Devil in the 1970s. The goal of Project Valiant was to produce an intercontinental ballistic missile. Although discontinued in 1974 without achieving success, Project Valiant, like Project Devil, led to the later development of the Prithvi missile in the 1980s.

Both projects were overseen by the Defense Research & Development Laboratory (DRDL) of India, which had begun in 1958 with a specialization in anti-tank missiles but expanded in subsequent years.[1] Project Valiant was intended to be an intercontinental ballistic missile utilizing 30-ton engines to achieve a range variously reported as 1,500 kilometres (930 mi) and 8,000 kilometres (5,000 mi).[2][3][4] The secret project was initially funded with a few hundred thousand rupees after the presentation of a feasibility report in April 1971, but in June 1972, DRDL received 160 million rupees to fund both projects. The money came with a veil of secrecy; the Union Cabinet had publicly declined the funding request, but Prime Minister Indira Gandhi had granted it secretly through her discretionary powers.[5] In turn, DRDL took pains to disguise the purpose of the funds so that their real work would not be immediately apparent. That year, the DRDL began to expand rapidly, increasing its workforce from 400 to 2,500 people over a two-year period in an effort to meet staffing needs of both the Valiant and Devil projects.[5]

The Valiant missile was anticipated to weigh 85 tons and to use three liquid fuel stages.[4] In 1972, the lab began to work on designing and developing various components for the Valiant,[5] and the project reached the phase of ground testing on 10 May 1974.[4] However, internal disputes disrupted the DRDL, as the leader of the Valiant project believed the DRDL's director was disproportionately invested in Project Devil, and external interest in both programs waned.[5] That same year, the Union Cabinet asked the director of the DRDL to evaluate whether civilian uses could be found at theIndian Space Research Organization (ISRO) for Valiant's liquid-fuel engine.[5] The ISRO declined, and since the Valiant project was not progressing satisfactorily and it was not well-managed, the project was terminated.[4][5]
 
Last edited:
.
how about if both Pakistan & Indian grab Technologies from all three big countries Rusia, China & USA then both they make a new joint fighter beating all existing fighters dominated the world by these three countries how it will be if both side forget the history of wars and start new era of cooperation....
lol, are you being sarcastic?
 
.
Come on! Canadians are still buying F/A-18 for their air force.

Source: India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets
F-35 you mean. The F-18 line would be useless to India. Its not about what you have, but how you got it. If boeing wants to move the hornet line to india, then i assume they would want to do what the japs did to the f-2 when the turned it into more expensive f-16. It would be pointless. But boeing sell to india is good sign of competition and new dialogue in india-us relations.

Why not? Chinese started with the assembling job of Su-27. Now they can make pretty much all components.

Source: India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets | Page 2
design is out dated. Even India intends to switch the MKI assembly to Pak-fa. China bought 200 outright from Russia before any ToT, India got the second batch in semi knock down condition at 30 aircraft give or take.
F-18 line leads to a dead end.
 
.
IAF already has too many types of aircrafts.. its going to be nightmare to maintain them


we do try, but not even good at that.

You have too little faith in Indian engineers. We all know what Indian engineers are capable of. Look at what they have achieved in other countries. If I may speculate, it may be the ego that gets in the way. Technical issues are often politicized and nobody dares to publicly admit the weakness of manufacturing sector and insist on starting from the basics. Instead, too eager to try and claim something indigenous, say Tejas. It is like trying to sprint before learning how to crawl.

1. Reverse engineering needs regressive repetitive work. You need 10x team size to rev engg any product. India doesnt have money to operate 1 team

I think your estimate on team size is faulty as you overlook all the foundation work that leads to the final team that makes the product. Combining with other information gathering activities, reverse engineering is often the most cost effective approach.
 
.
Well AMCA could be dropped and negotiate with US on 100% manufacturing in India. India may add some silent and Growlers too.
what is special about 100 percent manufacturing, unless we scrap the rafale deal. India neither needs nor can afford 200 crafts
You have too little faith in Indian engineers. We all know what Indian engineers are capable of. Look at what they have achieved in other countries. If I may speculate, it may be the ego that gets in the way. Technical issues are often politicized and nobody dares to publicly admit the weakness of manufacturing sector and insist on starting from the basics. Instead, too eager to try and claim something indigenous, say Tejas. It is like trying to sprint before learning how to crawl.



I think your estimate on team size is faulty as you overlook all the foundation work that leads to the final team that makes the product. Combining with other information gathering activities, reverse engineering is often the most cost effective approach.
Indian defence manufacturing is govt owned and they do not have the culture of excellence. Even our armed forces do not trust them because they overpromise and underdeliver. We cant change their culture, as these orgs are too big.
We need private Indian companies to compete inside India. There is no other way.
 
.
design is out dated. Even India intends to switch the MKI assembly to Pak-fa. China bought 200 outright from Russia before any ToT, India got the second batch in semi knock down condition at 30 aircraft give or take.
F-18 line leads to a dead end.

I envy your ambition on claiming F-18 is out dated. As I mentioned earlier, Canadians are still buying them and F-35 is way too costly for them. By contrast, Chinese don't have that luxury to claim something they cannot make as out-dated. Even the old Mig-21 was treasured until the Chinese could make something better.
 
.
Thanks but no thanks. Though I believe Indian navy should go for 40 F-35s for Ins Vishaal in next decade. F-35s+E-2D advanced hawkeye makes perfect sense.

PS: Also it most probably will have American EMAL too
 
.
You have too little faith in Indian engineers. We all know what Indian engineers are capable of. Look at what they have achieved in other countries. If I may speculate, it may be the ego that gets in the way. Technical issues are often politicized and nobody dares to publicly admit the weakness of manufacturing sector and insist on starting from the basics. Instead, too eager to try and claim something indigenous, say Tejas. It is like trying to sprint before learning how to crawl.

We have little faith in public sector HAL(Hopeless aerospace limited).DRDO is doing decent job with mixed results. Some of their product( Nishant drone) faltered bcoz companies like HAL who manufacture them. They cant even make proper parachute recovery system. They dont apply strict quality control practices in manfuacturing. HAL adds many manufacturing level defects.

ISRO,BEL, BHEL are good examples of success story from public sector

We have faith in private sector. Tata aerospace can partner with Boeing on F-18 project if
they can promise some tech transfer

You have too little faith in Indian engineers. We all know what Indian engineers are capable of. Look at what they have achieved in other countries. If I may speculate, it may be the ego that gets in the way. Technical issues are often politicized and nobody dares to publicly admit the weakness of manufacturing sector and insist on starting from the basics. Instead, too eager to try and claim something indigenous, say Tejas. It is like trying to sprint before learning how to crawl.



I think your estimate on team size is faulty as you overlook all the foundation work that leads to the final team that makes the product. Combining with other information gathering activities, reverse engineering is often the most cost effective approach.

1. China have many decades experience of Rev engineering. Its impossible to follow the path and achieve similar results with in few years.

India is democracy and we are bound by western IPR rules. India is still dependent on west.
Any copy of their system will result into sanctions.
China is big power and it can get away with copy.

2. All product development use mixtures of
Top to bottom(Forward engg) and bottom to top(Rev engg) approach


Hybrid Bidirectional engineering is the shortest way to achieve parity between cost & quality.
India uses more of top to bottom and less of Rev engineering. Indian public sectors are pathetic in manufacturing.
All R&D money is given to them. India can increase rev engg capacity if govt allocates R&D budget to private sectors who can manufacture faster.
 
Last edited:
.
Back
Top Bottom