INDIA’S DEFENSE: THE SHOCKING TRUTH.

[Dark Warrior]

Your posts prove jack all....just a decade earlier, 2001/2002....when Pakistan was under sanctions and it's armed forces were much less capable than now.....your army remained paralysed on the border for a whole year....and you lost some 800 men without a bullet fired in anger.....that's the reality my friend. This is an open public forum, since you are privileged to be here, learn to debate in a manner rather than resorting to mere cheap banter and chest thumping.

800 personnel killed was a joke by the media:

QUESTION DETAILS Back
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE
RAJYA SABHA
STARRED QUESTION NO 301
TO BE ANSWERED ON 12.03.2003
DEMINING IN FORWARD AREAS .


301. SHRI K. RAHMAN KHAN

Will the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to state:-


(a) whether it is a fact that in the forward areas our forces are engaged in clearing mines without the aid of demining sets and mine boots;

(b) if so, the number of Jawans killed and injured so far during the demining process; and

(c) the steps proposed to be taken to stop manual demining to save human lives as well as complete the demining process quickly?

ANSWER

MINISTER OF DEFENCE

(SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES)


(a) to (c): A Statement is laid on the Table of the House. STATEMENT IN RESPECT OF PARTS (a) TO (c) OF RAJYA SABHA STARRED QUESTION NO. 301 FOR 12.3.2003 REGARDING DEMINING IN FORWARD AREAS.

No, Sir. Demining equipment, anti-mine boots and other protective gear are available with our troops, who are engaged in demining operations in the forward areas, where land mines were laid during OPERATION PARAKRAM. Nevertheless, during the current demining operations, from October 2002 upto 6th March 2003, five Army personnel were killed and fifty nine were injured.
Manual demining is an inescapable part of the demining process along with other methods, and thus cannot altogether be dispensed with. However, to ensure safety in demining operations, only trained army personnel who laid the mines and were familiar with the terrain, have been employed in recovery of the mines.
In addition, the Government has taken necessary steps to augment the existing resources with highly advanced equipment available internationally, so as to facilitate safe and expeditious completion of the on- going demining process.

http://164.100.24.167:8080/members/website/quest.asp?qref=78517

 

[Windjammer]

if u r more educated than plz provide us some fresh links......SORRY..i am a bit lazy man

Read to your hearts content.

Cost of standoff

The Indian cost for the buildup was 21,600 crore (US$4.31 billion), while the Pakistani cost was estimated to be $1.4 billion. Also it took India months to mobilize and lost 789 men in the process. Around 100 soldiers were killed in the initial phase of laying mines, another 250 were injured. The remaining casualties were a result of artillery duels with Pakistan and vehicle accidents.[23][2]
[edit]

2001

 

[mautkimaut]

The Indian Army’s soldiers, The officers, are very very Brave and they make do with what they have. And so far they have done a good job. But the future wars are not going to be man-dependent; They’re going to be machine dependent and system-dependent. If they are left with what they have today God Help them.
India’s night-fighting capabilities is virtually nonexistent. The artillery is of poor quality. The new assault rifles that the Indian Soldier is supposed to use will take least another three to four years before they are acquired. For the last three years, the army has not fired a single 9mm carbine because it does not have the ammunition. The army has not carried out practice rounds for its tanks because it lacks 125mm ammunition. It is using air defense guns from the 1950’s and their radar network is poor.

All this started when in September 2010 the government called upon its services to be prepared to fight a two-fronts war against Pakistan and China which was nothing new it is the Defense Ministry Directives but this directive does not point out what it actually wants and what kind of capability it wants of the military.
As far as the equipment profile of the 3 armed services is concerned, the army is the worst-off. And that is what General Singh had written to the prime minister about. He had said there is no ammunition for the tanks, the infantry is in bad shape, and the air defense is obsolete. What General Singh has said is something that has been reiterated over the years by comptroller and auditor general, the public accounts committee and the parliament’s defense committee. The reality is a lot worse than what he has written in his letter. India’s night-fighting capability is virtually nonexistent. Over 75 percent of its armor fleet is incapable of operating in the dark. The army’s entire helicopter fleet too is night-blind. The artillery is of poor quality because the range of the artillery that the Indian military has is roughly about 35 to 37 km( 21.7 to 22.9 miles), whereas the range of Pakistan and China is 40km plus ( 24.8 miles). Last November in an emergency purchase Indian army purchased 66,000 125mm rounds from Russia at tremendous cost $ 60 mil.
The profile of Indian Army Aviation is pathetic, The Helicopters they are using are from the 1960’s and have been upgraded. The acquisition of 197 light observation helicopters has been help up for the last 10 years, Last tender was cancelled in 2007 and was re-tendered, but it is still in process.


Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

After Long time Sir.. how have you been ? Hope Health is good

 

[Dark Warrior]

Read to your hearts content.

Cost of standoff

The Indian cost for the buildup was 21,600 crore (US$4.31 billion), while the Pakistani cost was estimated to be $1.4 billion. Also it took India months to mobilize and lost 789 men in the process. Around 100 soldiers were killed in the initial phase of laying mines, another 250 were injured. The remaining casualties were a result of artillery duels with Pakistan and vehicle accidents.[23][2]
[edit]

2001

Your artillery claimed no more than 50 men.Rest you due to vehicle accidents, avalanches etc.

In the initial phase of Operation Parakram itself, around 100 soldiers were killed and 250 injured during mine-laying operations. Vehicle accidents, artillery duels with Pakistan and other incidents led to many more casualties.
Op Parakram claimed 798 soldiers - Times Of India

Anyways I remember an IA artillery strike which destroyed an entire PA platoon along with a dozen bunker.
Rediff On The NeT: At least 50 Pak soldiers killed as India strikes back

 

[mjnaushad]

Well the debate is whether India has enough ammo to fight a war.My posts prove that.

P.S.:The proverb applies to you.So I think Pakistanis should worry about the poor state of their own air force vis-a vis India's and let us Indian's worry about IA's ammo condition.

Well in that case Indian should not be here in the first place...... As its defence.PK ......

 

[Windjammer]

800 personnel killed was a joke by the media:

http://164.100.24.167:8080/members/website/quest.asp?qref=78517

Your artillery claimed no more than 50 men.Rest you due to vehicle accidents, avalanches etc.

Anyways I remember an IA artillery strike which destroyed an entire PA platoon along with a dozen bunker.
Rediff On The NeT: At least 50 Pak soldiers killed as India strikes back

If you are done for today.!!

 

[Dark Warrior]

If you are done for today.!!

Can't you read properly only 5 personnel killed during de mining ops between oct 2002 and march 2003.
And only 100 killed during planting of mines.
Vehicle accidents claim lives during the most peaceful times also,so nothing alarming in that.

 

[mjnaushad]

Can't you read properly only 5 personnel killed during de mining ops between oct 2002 and march 2003.
And only 100 killed during planting of mines.
Vehicle accidents claim lives during the most peaceful times also,so nothing alarming in that.

Are you saying Indian Army lacks good drivers as well....



I am out of this thread.

 

[danger007]

Its true we don't have weapons to fight with brave internet warriors. ....

I haven't checked Indian army vault....so i don't know, do we have ammunition or not.....

people must have to think few points....

1. our army chief faced problem regarding his age, so he might want to drag GOI into problem....
2. Kargil intrusion is alarm for Indian armed forces to be prepared at any time, so GOI not in a position or won't dare to get in problems.... i guess they don't want to dig their own grave yard....

3. Might there is corruption in Indian armed deals, but definitely IA have enough ammunition .....


finally Fools can think whateva they want, it wont change reality...


http://news.in.msn.com/national/india-military-mightier-can-sustain-a-war-pakistan

 

[GORKHALI]

Are you saying Indian Army lacks good drivers as well....



I am out of this thread.

Arey bacho(Newbies) se kya puchte ho,Thoda apni barabar walo ko pucho.

Lets Start with Kargil ,you guys accepted it after 10 years .

Pak admits role in Kargil War; names soldiers on casualty list

Demining of fields are one of most complex procedure where a small mistake can cost lives.Indian army accepted that they did some mistake while demining like using obselete equipment,not following the SOP etc.Keep those school times Jibes for Other pakistan members mate.If you can't add anything new here then Door is still open you can go anytime and troll in other thread.

 

[Muradk]

If its ok with you guys tomorrow I will write the article which was given to me. It has many interesting facts and figures. Again my starting this topic is not to make Indian Armed force look bad but to have a good discussion. And tomorrow you will see after reading the article that its not coming from a Pakistani or and American or some one from China it was written by an Indian defense Analyst.
In the article it was mentioned that the ministry of defense of India doesn't have a retired military officer working there who can actually guide them ( hard to believe that ) but again the guy writing it is not trying to make a name for him self he is just laying out the facts so the people of India can realize that they have the money to buy anything but the people making the decisions have no idea what the military wants and are not willing to listen or take advice from the top military brass.

 

[GORKHALI]

If its ok with you guys tomorrow I will write the article which was given to me. It has many interesting facts and figures. Again my starting this topic is not to make Indian Armed force look bad but to have a good discussion. And tomorrow you will see after reading the article that its not coming from a Pakistani or and American or some one from China it was written by an Indian defense Analyst.
In the article it was mentioned that the ministry of defense of India doesn't have a retired military officer working there who can actually guide them ( hard to believe that ) but again the guy writing it is not trying to make a name for him self he is just laying out the facts so the people of India can realize that they have the money to buy anything but the people making the decisions have no idea what the military wants and are not willing to listen or take advice from the top military brass.

Am ok with it ,till you ok to accept the counter points,Else we know clowns jumping around even there .

 

[Black Widow]

The Indian Army’s soldiers, The officers, are very very Brave and they make do with what they have. And so far they have done a good job. But the future wars are not going to be man-dependent; They’re going to be machine dependent and system-dependent. If they are left with what they have today God Help them.
India’s night-fighting capabilities is virtually nonexistent. The artillery is of poor quality. The new assault rifles that the Indian Soldier is supposed to use will take least another three to four years before they are acquired. For the last three years, the army has not fired a single 9mm carbine because it does not have the ammunition. The army has not carried out practice rounds for its tanks because it lacks 125mm ammunition. It is using air defense guns from the 1950’s and their radar network is poor.

All this started when in September 2010 the government called upon its services to be prepared to fight a two-fronts war against Pakistan and China which was nothing new it is the Defense Ministry Directives but this directive does not point out what it actually wants and what kind of capability it wants of the military.
As far as the equipment profile of the 3 armed services is concerned, the army is the worst-off. And that is what General Singh had written to the prime minister about. He had said there is no ammunition for the tanks, the infantry is in bad shape, and the air defense is obsolete. What General Singh has said is something that has been reiterated over the years by comptroller and auditor general, the public accounts committee and the parliament’s defense committee. The reality is a lot worse than what he has written in his letter. India’s night-fighting capability is virtually nonexistent. Over 75 percent of its armor fleet is incapable of operating in the dark. The army’s entire helicopter fleet too is night-blind. The artillery is of poor quality because the range of the artillery that the Indian military has is roughly about 35 to 37 km( 21.7 to 22.9 miles), whereas the range of Pakistan and China is 40km plus ( 24.8 miles). Last November in an emergency purchase Indian army purchased 66,000 125mm rounds from Russia at tremendous cost $ 60 mil.
The profile of Indian Army Aviation is pathetic, The Helicopters they are using are from the 1960’s and have been upgraded. The acquisition of 197 light observation helicopters has been help up for the last 10 years, Last tender was cancelled in 2007 and was re-tendered, but it is still in process.


Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

Long article, But I will answer it in a story.. (I like to tell stories)


Once upon a time, Ram and Shyam were crossing jungle. Suddenly they saw a lion. Ram started lacing his shoe, Shyam asked "why are u doing this? you can not out run lion.", Ram said "who on earth want to out run the lion, I want to outrun you."


Moral of the story, "In Kargil war, it was not India which was out of ammo".

 

[Ambitious.Asian]

Read to your hearts content.

Cost of standoff

The Indian cost for the buildup was 21,600 crore (US$4.31 billion), while the Pakistani cost was estimated to be $1.4 billion. Also it took India months to mobilize and lost 789 men in the process. Around 100 soldiers were killed in the initial phase of laying mines, another 250 were injured. The remaining casualties were a result of artillery duels with Pakistan and vehicle accidents.[23][2]
[edit]

2001

India indeed suffered casualties but pakistani casualties are unknown.......why pakistan is hiding its casualties??????

such nature indicates a greater no. of pak casualties than of India.

 

[Black Widow]

India indeed suffered casualties but pakistani casualties are unknown.......why pakistan is hiding its casualties??????

such nature indicates a greater no. of pak casualties than of India.

Entire NLF was wiped out. The LGBs blew away many bodies, most of them didn't get proper burial. There remains didn't get soil from there mother land.

You remember American bone collection in Vietnaam??? It was a project to bring the remains of US soldier to home (many years aftr war got over). Pakistan will also bring up similar project after they end war on India.. One day Pakistan will give up the enimity.