India-Russia jet deal hits turbulence over 'technical worries'

[Manindra]

what's up with the mail today picture of T-50?? looks nothing like the T-50 i've been seeing

Lot of mistakes in the article like picture of flanker instead of T-50 and T-50 would be third Sukhoi plane in IAF, first one was Sukhoi 7

 

[FNFAL]

No need to underestimate PAF. They defeated IAF soundly in 1965 when they had a qualitative edge.
Although today they have only 18 4.5 Gen fighters compared to our 200+ 4.5 Gen fighters.
After they induct 150 JF-17 they should be able to induct 2-3 squadrons of Chinese J-31 over 10 year period.

defeat? more like counter
Nevertheless, do they have the qualitative edge? NO
Is the gap considerable? YES
Should we relax ? NO

ANyhow , coming to the numbers game,. I';; be more conservative. those number of jf17s wil also replace a shitload of their older mirages , f7s.
ALSO, a mature 5th gen from china will take some time.domestic needs will be addressed first.partner come later

 

[arp2041]

Don't worry Jammer Ji................

Bade Bade Projects me esi Choti Choti batey hoti rehti hai............

BTW, those who are worried about if Russia will transfer key 5th gen tech to India or not should know that Russia is the ONLY nation in the world which has given a nation (India) a NUCLEAR SUB on lease & has also given tech. to make INHOUSE. This has not been done by even those nation for there friends who claim that there friendship is Higher than Mt. Everest & Deeper than Marina Trench.....................

 

[Etilla]

defeat? more like counter
Nevertheless, do they have the qualitative edge? NO
Is the gap considerable? YES
Should we relax ? NO

ANyhow , coming to the numbers game,. I';; be more conservative. those number of jf17s wil also replace a shitload of their older mirages , f7s.
ALSO, a mature 5th gen from china will take some time.domestic needs will be addressed first.partner come later

Well it was a defeat in 1965 for IAF.

If we play the numbers game then 150 JF-17 cannot replace the 343 F-7,Mirage 3 and 5. Plus the A-5 which was retired recently so it brings the pressure on JF 17 to replace 400 fighter aircraft.

This means PAF is going to shrink in the future as JF-17 production rate is not going to cross 15/year and the Mirages are well beyond their retirement date.

 

[Voltaire]

Don't worry Jammer Ji................

Bade Bade Projects me esi Choti Choti batey hoti rehti hai............

BTW, those who are worried about if Russia will transfer key 5th gen tech to India or not should know that Russia is the ONLY nation in the world which has given a nation (India) a NUCLEAR SUB on lease & has also given tech. to make INHOUSE. This has not been done by even those nation for there friends who claim that there friendship is Higher than Mt. Everest & Deeper than Marina Trench.....................

Pakistan doesn't have the capacity to build subs on its own.

 

[FNFAL]

Well it was a defeat in 1965 for IAF.
If we play the numbers game then 150 JF-17 cannot replace the 343 F-7,Mirage 3 and 5. Plus the A-5 which was retired recently so it brings the pressure on JF 17 to replace 400 fighter aircraft.
This means PAF is going to shrink in the future as JF-17 production rate is not going to cross 15/year and the Mirages are well beyond their retirement date

Reduced air force, yes.

But do remmeber, a single JF17 would bring into combat effectiveness of 2 older F-7s or mirage3/5

Geting modern western aircraft is out of scope for them. and they shall lean more on chinese for assistance.Many argues the jf17 vs f16 scenario here on the forums. Crux of the matter is, they cant afford the f16, hence the poor mans f16.

Not sure about russian help , Im yet to see any concrete proof of pak getting the supposedly mi35s they ordered.

 

[Windjammer]

From F-16 you have descended to a Gnat level. Seriously?

Only reason countries are buying first hand (not Pakistan) F-16 is because of US influence. They can buy Russian Su-35 which are superior to F-16 blk 52 in every aspect. Much cheaper as well. If the Raptor was legal for export not a single F-16 would be in production today.

Additionaly the F-16 which had 5 different production lines is down to a single production line at Fort Worth.

I only brought in the thrust vectoring aspect as you were negatively commenting on low speed manoeuvres. BVR changes the whole game and soon METEOR will change the game again. If it proves successful that it but then again MBDA has a good quality standard.

The Gnat reply was likewise to your sarcasm.
If countries are only inclined to buy due to US influence, one wonders, why is it not pushing the F/A-18 or even the F-15 to the same extent.....even when the F-16s were embargoed for a decade, while PAF had the funds and even tested the likes of EFT and Rafale, it remained resolute for the F-16s.
While the five production lines were serving the NATO members, it's worth remembering that all those countries while cutting back on their battle orders, haven't exactly replaced their F-16s with any other types.......not until the F-35 is in full production, on the contrary many former Warsaw pact allies have either replaced or decided to opt for the likes of F-16 rather than newer generation of Russian machines.

 

[FNFAL]

可悲的印度為什麼總是需要買飛機而不是自己研發製造呢？看看你們的光輝戰機研發了幾十年以生產就落後了。。。真可悲

あなたがだます迷子

 

[Etilla]

The Gnat reply was likewise to your sarcasm.
If countries are only inclined to buy due to US influence, one wonders, why is it not pushing the F/A-18 or even the F-15 to the same extent.....even when the F-16s were embargoed for a decade, while PAF had the funds and even tested the likes of EFT and Rafale, it remained resolute for the F-16s.
While the five production lines were serving the NATO members, it's worth remembering that all those countries while cutting back on their battle orders, haven't exactly replaced their F-16s with any other types.......not until the F-35 is in full production, on the contrary many former Warsaw pact allies have either replaced or decided to opt for the likes of F-16 rather than newer generation of Russian machines.

Sir you are getting angry at me now.

I was not being sarcastic but the only known F-16 lost in air combat was a PAF F-16 shot down by another PAF F-16.

The F/A 18 Super Hornet is a carrier based fighter and is thus limited by its primary role. The regular Hornet did get decent orders. I think the F-15 is being pushed fairly well with Arab states purchasing it in large #. But F-16 is MR fighter and much cheaper than the bulkier F-15 which has a more dedicated air superiority role. That seems to the main reason F-16 witnessed more sales than F-15.

EFT and Rafale cost more than $100 mill per aircraft so how does PAF have funds for that? Equipping a single squadron will be the entire budget.
Former Warsaw Pact countries have switched to neutrality with several joining NATO. Russia only controls Belarus and Cuba nowadays. No way the US will let Russian aircraft to be sold to neutral countries easily even though Russian aircraft are cheaper.

Reduced air force, yes.

But do remmeber, a single JF17 would bring into combat effectiveness of 2 older F-7s or mirage3/5

Geting modern western aircraft is out of scope for them. and they shall lean more on chinese for assistance.Many argues the jf17 vs f16 scenario here on the forums. Crux of the matter is, they cant afford the f16, hence the poor mans f16.

Not sure about russian help , Im yet to see any concrete proof of pak getting the supposedly mi35s they ordered.

The Mi 35 deal is in ambiguity.

PAF is in serious attrition scenario unless they buy 3 J-10 squadrons for which they lack funds

 

[FNFAL]

The Mi 35 deal is in ambiguity.
PAF is in serious attrition scenario unless they buy 3 J-10 squadrons for which they lack funds

PROLLY COZ RUSSIA aint giving them aids or soft loans.chinese are great businessmen. they sell weapons to pak which they dont induct. take the case of fc-1 or jf17, or the mbt200 tank

Chinese soft aid will be the determining factor in the coming decades.US aid will be cut down.

Anyhow, as long as they belive a small potent deterrent exists for them to counter India, good for them

 

[ejaz007]

PAKISTANIS live in world of their own.

In this world

The F16 is the greatest fighter in the planet bar F22

regardless of what technology arrives in future

TVC engines
Pesa Radars
Faster longer BVRs missles

Nothing comes close to the 20 year old F16 especially in the hands of the skillfully PAF.

Any doubt

 

[Storm Force]

Are you Indians not listening.

The f16 have killed hundreds of second generation mig21 and 23 and poorly equipped mig 29 in combat.

They have done not by superior skill but by outnumbering then old migs and having benefit of awacs and GPS satalites and superior real time Intel.

On this basis Pakistan with 17 block 52 us going to takec.f. on 200 mki a 4th generation fighter with tvc and pesa radar and win due the mythical skills of thus great warrior race

In front of f16 nothing survives even if the dam plane is 20 years older than the mki

 

[Windjammer]

You dumb yindoo!!!Mard-e-momins are way ahead of you.They won't allow their jets to take off in the first place.No way cowards IAF is shooting down world's best PAF jet.

Yes, the Maha-Bhartis can shoot all the jets with their eyes shut......as long as the other side doesn't shoot back...
When you have stopped amusing yourself, perhaps you will let us know when was the last time your Agni Pankh did actually fired in anger. !!

 

[C130]

Are you Indians not listening.

The f16 have killed hundreds of second generation mig21 and 23 and poorly equipped mig 29 in combat.

They have done not by superior skill but by outnumbering then old migs and having benefit of awacs and GPS satalites and superior real time Intel.

On this basis Pakistan with 17 block 52 us going to takec.f. on 200 mki a 4th generation fighter with tvc and pesa radar and win due the mythical skills of thus great warrior race

In front of f16 nothing survives even if the dam plane is 20 years older than the mki

so TOPGUN is just for show?
U.S aviators are some of the best in the world.
topped only by the Israelis and French.

 

[Storm Force]

Why are we discussing a 20 year old tiny fleet of f16s and it's combat record from the period from 20 years ago.

This thread is about s fifth generation fighter project between Russia and India.

F16 is obselete news.

We are in 2015 not 1995