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India is no ally of the US

Genesis

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This article really sums it up nicely. I seen previous articles that talks about Indo-US alliance to take on China, and how it's over.

They forget this, aside from the fact Indian-Russian alliance is far stronger, India cannot be a status quo power. Not unless she wants to have the exact same influence as a minor economic and military power forever.

Evidence of this is clear, India will not go on record to condemn Russia on Ukraine or sanctions, India is part of BRICS, India is part of AIDB, and India has plans to join SCO, and is probably in already.

India is also frustrated at the lack of voice in the UN, IMF, and other such institutions, pretty much every institution China has been marginalized, India has too, which gives it the exact same reason to want to not be part of the American led order and have no say.

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In the continuing debate between Hugh White and Shaskank Joshi regarding US-India strategic cooperation, I would associate myself closely with the views of White and what he sees as the eventual limits of the relationship.

image.axd


But I would take it one step further. In the long-term, an anti-US coalition consisting of China, Russia and India cannot be discounted.

India presently fears China's growing power. Accordingly, India hedges by deepening relations with the US and status quo middle powers such as Australia. However, India does not perceive itself as a status quo power, but as an emerging great power. As India's confidence grows it will be acting in its own interests, not those of the collective West.

Of course there are clear areas of strategic tension in the bilateral China-India relationship. These include unresolved border disputes, China's patronage of Pakistan and China's growing maritime presence in the Indian Ocean region. But these issues are being managed between the parties and may well be resolved, probably in that order, over the next 10 to 20 years.

It is very hard to see a similar outcome between China and the US.

Last September, Prime Minister Modi and President Xi said they would 'seek an early settlement to the boundary question,' with both countries subsequently appointing new envoys to help manage the dispute. Despite a recent setback, negotiations continue, and there is no reason to believe they will not ultimately succeed. After all, China has settled its land border with 12 of the 14 countries on its periphery, sitting in stark contrast with increasing Chinese maritime assertiveness in the East and South China seas.

As for Pakistan, India's view of China's patronage is complicated. India holds grievances over such issues as China's support for Pakistan's nuclear program, yet it is dangerous for India if Pakistan feels overly threatened. Making Pakistan feel secure is extremely challenging, especially as India's power grows. Thus a transparent Chinese role in Pakistani affairs is in India's long-term interest – transparency that will depend highly on India improving bilateral relations with China.

Finally, China's naval presence in the Indian Ocean is another major concern for India; an expansion due mainly to China's dependency on energy imports from the Middle East. The long-term trajectory of this issue depends on a combination of China reducing its reliance on sea-borne oil imports, and on the improving strength and assertiveness of India. As China has no maritime claims in the Indian Ocean, maritime tension will likely be a consequence of fissures in the broader relationship, not a cause.

As for India and the US, I find it astonishing that after more than 50 years of being repeatedly burned, some Americans still have not learned their lesson (though many have), and continue insisting that China and India are 'natural competitors'. This is false. China and India are historical competitors, but such competition is not necessarily 'natural' and certainly nothing like the strategic competition that exists between China and the US. After all, any Chinese expansion in the Western Pacific will be at America's expense. It is hard to argue that India's expansion into the Indian Ocean is being actively resisted by China.

India is not a pro-Western democratic bulwark, and never will be.

India has one true strategic partner – Russia. That relationship is deep, multifaceted and as old as ANZUS. Modi calls Russia 'a pillar of strength' and India's 'most important defence partner.' Russia has supplied a significant portion of India's military hardware, is supplying most of India's nuclear reactors, and continues to play a significant role in India's military-industrial complex, including submarine and ballistic missile programs. Likewise, Russia's relationship with China is 'the best it's been in 450 years.'

Once you remove the immediate barnacles in the China-India relationship, an interesting coalescence of interests emerge between China, India and Russia.

All three countries have a strong preference for a multipolar world order and the dilution of American hegemony. All three countries consider the principle of state sovereignty to be the pre-eminent norm of international relations, have a mercantile bent to their economic policies and already cooperate on many of these issues through the BRICS grouping.

There are certainly significant pitfalls and risks in the China-India relationship. But should those be navigated successfully, the US may well find itself with a worse relationship with India, Russia and China than the three have with each other. This is because strategic tension between India and China is finite, while their shared interests are broad and enduring.

Photo courtesy of Flickr user Mat McDermott.
 
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India is nutral when it comes on foreign policy. But next 5 years is very important for India when It comes a level of sound on internatinal stage.
 
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I think India misses its old importance of being one of the leaders of NAM during the Cold War. The boundary issues between India and China are not very great. Unlike India-Pak, there is no emotional baggage in this matter. A simple quid pro quo would solve issues. That being said India being naturally risk-averse- is unlikely to join either US (status quo camp) or China-Russia(Revisionist camp). It is likely to be equidistant from both. Dependence on one party will be a weakness. That is the gist of the new policy document prepared a few years back- "Nonalignment 2.0". I think it is available online. Lack of voice in the UN, IMF is no reason to join the revisionist camp. However, in the coming years, India is likely to defend its immediate turf in South Asia very aggressively- against either US or China. Playing off one against the other would be the key.
 
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US has a very loose meaning for the word "ALLY". We have seen few examples of how they treat their "ALLIES" so India would be happy to keep this relationship on strictly "PROFESSIONAL and BUSINESS" terms.
 
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can a mod move this to South Asia section, don't know why I put it here. Wasn't thinking.

I think India misses its old importance of being one of the leaders of NAM during the Cold War. The boundary issues between India and China are not very great. Unlike India-Pak, there is no emotional baggage in this matter. A simple quid pro quo would solve issues. That being said India being naturally risk-averse- is unlikely to join either US (status quo camp) or China-Russia(Revisionist camp). It is likely to be equidistant from both. Dependence on one party will be a weakness. That is the gist of the new policy document prepared a few years back- "Nonalignment 2.0". I think it is available online. Lack of voice in the UN, IMF is no reason to join the revisionist camp. However, in the coming years, India is likely to defend its immediate turf in South Asia very aggressively- against either US or China. Playing off one against the other would be the key.
give it time, you're not there yet, but by status quo the US and allies really mean the club is no longer taking membership.

Look at G7, India is still a top 10 economy, when you make it to 3 for a few years, you might wonder why the global financial order has no input from you, while countries who's entire contribution to the world is women's bags can.
 
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This article really sums it up nicely. I seen previous articles that talks about Indo-US alliance to take on China, and how it's over.

They forget this, aside from the fact Indian-Russian alliance is far stronger, India cannot be a status quo power. Not unless she wants to have the exact same influence as a minor economic and military power forever.

Evidence of this is clear, India will not go on record to condemn Russia on Ukraine or sanctions, India is part of BRICS, India is part of AIDB, and India has plans to join SCO, and is probably in already.

India is also frustrated at the lack of voice in the UN, IMF, and other such institutions, pretty much every institution China has been marginalized, India has too, which gives it the exact same reason to want to not be part of the American led order and have no say.

----------------------------------------------------------

In the continuing debate between Hugh White and Shaskank Joshi regarding US-India strategic cooperation, I would associate myself closely with the views of White and what he sees as the eventual limits of the relationship.

image.axd


But I would take it one step further. In the long-term, an anti-US coalition consisting of China, Russia and India cannot be discounted.

India presently fears China's growing power. Accordingly, India hedges by deepening relations with the US and status quo middle powers such as Australia. However, India does not perceive itself as a status quo power, but as an emerging great power. As India's confidence grows it will be acting in its own interests, not those of the collective West.

Of course there are clear areas of strategic tension in the bilateral China-India relationship. These include unresolved border disputes, China's patronage of Pakistan and China's growing maritime presence in the Indian Ocean region. But these issues are being managed between the parties and may well be resolved, probably in that order, over the next 10 to 20 years.

It is very hard to see a similar outcome between China and the US.

Last September, Prime Minister Modi and President Xi said they would 'seek an early settlement to the boundary question,' with both countries subsequently appointing new envoys to help manage the dispute. Despite a recent setback, negotiations continue, and there is no reason to believe they will not ultimately succeed. After all, China has settled its land border with 12 of the 14 countries on its periphery, sitting in stark contrast with increasing Chinese maritime assertiveness in the East and South China seas.

As for Pakistan, India's view of China's patronage is complicated. India holds grievances over such issues as China's support for Pakistan's nuclear program, yet it is dangerous for India if Pakistan feels overly threatened. Making Pakistan feel secure is extremely challenging, especially as India's power grows. Thus a transparent Chinese role in Pakistani affairs is in India's long-term interest – transparency that will depend highly on India improving bilateral relations with China.

Finally, China's naval presence in the Indian Ocean is another major concern for India; an expansion due mainly to China's dependency on energy imports from the Middle East. The long-term trajectory of this issue depends on a combination of China reducing its reliance on sea-borne oil imports, and on the improving strength and assertiveness of India. As China has no maritime claims in the Indian Ocean, maritime tension will likely be a consequence of fissures in the broader relationship, not a cause.

As for India and the US, I find it astonishing that after more than 50 years of being repeatedly burned, some Americans still have not learned their lesson (though many have), and continue insisting that China and India are 'natural competitors'. This is false. China and India are historical competitors, but such competition is not necessarily 'natural' and certainly nothing like the strategic competition that exists between China and the US. After all, any Chinese expansion in the Western Pacific will be at America's expense. It is hard to argue that India's expansion into the Indian Ocean is being actively resisted by China.

India is not a pro-Western democratic bulwark, and never will be.

India has one true strategic partner – Russia. That relationship is deep, multifaceted and as old as ANZUS. Modi calls Russia 'a pillar of strength' and India's 'most important defence partner.' Russia has supplied a significant portion of India's military hardware, is supplying most of India's nuclear reactors, and continues to play a significant role in India's military-industrial complex, including submarine and ballistic missile programs. Likewise, Russia's relationship with China is 'the best it's been in 450 years.'

Once you remove the immediate barnacles in the China-India relationship, an interesting coalescence of interests emerge between China, India and Russia.

All three countries have a strong preference for a multipolar world order and the dilution of American hegemony. All three countries consider the principle of state sovereignty to be the pre-eminent norm of international relations, have a mercantile bent to their economic policies and already cooperate on many of these issues through the BRICS grouping.

There are certainly significant pitfalls and risks in the China-India relationship. But should those be navigated successfully, the US may well find itself with a worse relationship with India, Russia and China than the three have with each other. This is because strategic tension between India and China is finite, while their shared interests are broad and enduring.

Photo courtesy of Flickr user Mat McDermott.
spot on, it's just business with America, Russia is a strategic partner and a friend, and there is no historical bad blood between the people of India and China, this relationship should be improved as nothing but good can come from such a partnership.

Modi is a nationalist, and by that definition alone, he will never allow us to be a vassal state of the west, specially not at the risk of alienating our friends, the Russians.

India.gif
Russia.gif
:china:
 
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give it time, you're not there yet, but by status quo the US and allies really mean the club is no longer taking membership.

Look at G7, India is still a top 10 economy, when you make it to 3 for a few years, you might wonder why the global financial order has no input from you, while countries who's entire contribution to the world is women's bags can.

It is certainly possible. Nothing is set in stone. We are very capable of resisting US pressure, such as in the matter of NPT and CTBT. Maybe India will give an issue based support depending on its self interest.
 
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@Genesis soon you and your thread will be attacked by Indian trolls :pop::pop::pop:

Why would she be attacked for speaking the truth

This article really sums it up nicely. I seen previous articles that talks about Indo-US alliance to take on China, and how it's over.

They forget this, aside from the fact Indian-Russian alliance is far stronger, India cannot be a status quo power. Not unless she wants to have the exact same influence as a minor economic and military power forever.

Evidence of this is clear, India will not go on record to condemn Russia on Ukraine or sanctions, India is part of BRICS, India is part of AIDB, and India has plans to join SCO, and is probably in already.

India is also frustrated at the lack of voice in the UN, IMF, and other such institutions, pretty much every institution China has been marginalized, India has too, which gives it the exact same reason to want to not be part of the American led order and have no say.

----------------------------------------------------------

In the continuing debate between Hugh White and Shaskank Joshi regarding US-India strategic cooperation, I would associate myself closely with the views of White and what he sees as the eventual limits of the relationship.

image.axd


But I would take it one step further. In the long-term, an anti-US coalition consisting of China, Russia and India cannot be discounted.

India presently fears China's growing power. Accordingly, India hedges by deepening relations with the US and status quo middle powers such as Australia. However, India does not perceive itself as a status quo power, but as an emerging great power. As India's confidence grows it will be acting in its own interests, not those of the collective West.

Of course there are clear areas of strategic tension in the bilateral China-India relationship. These include unresolved border disputes, China's patronage of Pakistan and China's growing maritime presence in the Indian Ocean region. But these issues are being managed between the parties and may well be resolved, probably in that order, over the next 10 to 20 years.

It is very hard to see a similar outcome between China and the US.

Last September, Prime Minister Modi and President Xi said they would 'seek an early settlement to the boundary question,' with both countries subsequently appointing new envoys to help manage the dispute. Despite a recent setback, negotiations continue, and there is no reason to believe they will not ultimately succeed. After all, China has settled its land border with 12 of the 14 countries on its periphery, sitting in stark contrast with increasing Chinese maritime assertiveness in the East and South China seas.

As for Pakistan, India's view of China's patronage is complicated. India holds grievances over such issues as China's support for Pakistan's nuclear program, yet it is dangerous for India if Pakistan feels overly threatened. Making Pakistan feel secure is extremely challenging, especially as India's power grows. Thus a transparent Chinese role in Pakistani affairs is in India's long-term interest – transparency that will depend highly on India improving bilateral relations with China.

Finally, China's naval presence in the Indian Ocean is another major concern for India; an expansion due mainly to China's dependency on energy imports from the Middle East. The long-term trajectory of this issue depends on a combination of China reducing its reliance on sea-borne oil imports, and on the improving strength and assertiveness of India. As China has no maritime claims in the Indian Ocean, maritime tension will likely be a consequence of fissures in the broader relationship, not a cause.

As for India and the US, I find it astonishing that after more than 50 years of being repeatedly burned, some Americans still have not learned their lesson (though many have), and continue insisting that China and India are 'natural competitors'. This is false. China and India are historical competitors, but such competition is not necessarily 'natural' and certainly nothing like the strategic competition that exists between China and the US. After all, any Chinese expansion in the Western Pacific will be at America's expense. It is hard to argue that India's expansion into the Indian Ocean is being actively resisted by China.

India is not a pro-Western democratic bulwark, and never will be.

India has one true strategic partner – Russia. That relationship is deep, multifaceted and as old as ANZUS. Modi calls Russia 'a pillar of strength' and India's 'most important defence partner.' Russia has supplied a significant portion of India's military hardware, is supplying most of India's nuclear reactors, and continues to play a significant role in India's military-industrial complex, including submarine and ballistic missile programs. Likewise, Russia's relationship with China is 'the best it's been in 450 years.'

Once you remove the immediate barnacles in the China-India relationship, an interesting coalescence of interests emerge between China, India and Russia.

All three countries have a strong preference for a multipolar world order and the dilution of American hegemony. All three countries consider the principle of state sovereignty to be the pre-eminent norm of international relations, have a mercantile bent to their economic policies and already cooperate on many of these issues through the BRICS grouping.

There are certainly significant pitfalls and risks in the China-India relationship. But should those be navigated successfully, the US may well find itself with a worse relationship with India, Russia and China than the three have with each other. This is because strategic tension between India and China is finite, while their shared interests are broad and enduring.

Photo courtesy of Flickr user Mat McDermott.

Fair points
 
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No country should be an ally of another.

India is no ally of anyone nor will ever be. The Western concept is ' If you are not with me , you are against me'.

This is not how matured Asian nations ( & this includes China , India & to an extent Japan) do business.

India is an ally of itself - always & every time.

Asian nations have been exploited for centuries by the west, they had no choice back then. Now , options exist & nations are exercising them.
 
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Any proper functional nation's foreign & defence policy driven by their own interest so India's strongest friend is India herself.
 
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Our national interest is our priority .We have the foreign policy for that purpose ,a total independent foreign policy.
For that we will deal with any nation be it China or be it US.
We only cares about ourselves.
 
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No country should be an ally of another.

India is no ally of anyone nor will ever be. The Western concept is ' If you are not with me , you are against me'.

This is not how matured Asian nations ( & this includes China , India & to an extent Japan) do business.

India is an ally of itself - always & every time.

Asian nations have been exploited for centuries by the west, they had no choice back then. Now , options exist & nations are exercising them.
Our national interest is our priority .We have the foreign policy for that purpose ,a total independent foreign policy.
For that we will deal with any nation be it China or be it US.
We only cares about ourselves.
It is certainly possible. Nothing is set in stone. We are very capable of resisting US pressure, such as in the matter of NPT and CTBT. Maybe India will give an issue based support depending on its self interest.
Any proper functional nation's foreign & defence policy driven by their own interest so India's strongest friend is India herself.

India will have an independent foreign policy, almost every country do, big or small.

The question isn't whether India will do what America wants, the question is will India tolerate a world without an input from it, when it has reached a place where it should have, at least, some say in the proceedings.

Will India stand for a G7 summit, that leaves it out, a IMF and world bank that drags its feet on reforms because Americans don't like to share.

The even bigger question is will India continue to view the world as acceptable, when even a great power like Russia can be sanctioned, over actions that Americans may very well have forced on it.

Will India accept a unipolar world. That's the million dollar question. Regardless of whether India wants to take sides or not, if the answer is no, then......
 
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