India Inducts 15 MiG-29Ks for Carrier Operations

[JanjaWeed]

NEW DELHI — Fifteen new Russian-made MiG-29K fighter jets have been inducted for Indian Navy carrier-borne operations, Indian Defence Minister, A.K. Antony told the country’s Parliament. These aircraft will operate from the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, formerly called the Admiral Gorshkov when in Russian service, which is planned for induction in December.

Antony also said a contract has been concluded to acquire an additional 29 MiG-29Ks to strengthen the air combat capability of the Navy.

India placed an order for 16 MiG-29Ks for $650 million in 2004 to be used on the Russian-made Vikramaditya. A repeat order for $1.5 billion was placed in early 2010 to purchase the 29 additional MiG-29Ks. The Vikramaditya is undergoing a refit in Russia

A trainer version of the MiG-29K, which was part of the aircraft carrier deal, crashed June 23, 2011, in southern Russia, killing its two-member crew. Although no details are known of the probe into the crash. the finalization of the contract for additional MiG-29Ks suggests Indian officials are satisfied with the aircraft, said an Indian Defence Ministry official.


India Inducts 15 MiG-29Ks for Carrier Operations | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Abingdonboy]

The rate of production by MiG is abysmal- 15 fighters in >2 years??!! That's less than 7 fighters per annum- pathetic. Hopefully for follow on orders the rate of delivery increases massively. I knew production would be relatively slow but never thought it could be this bad.

 

[Raje amar]

they dont have orders to keep their lines running.
they are just trying to keep the ball rolling by reducing the production rate, in a hope that they may get order from Russian Gov. of Mig 35.

 

[Abingdonboy]

they dont have orders to keep their lines running.
they are just trying to keep the ball rolling by reducing the production rate, in a hope that they may get order from Russian Gov. of Mig 35.

I am aware of this but with RuN opting for the MiG-29K also hopefully we can see ratcheting up of production and much higher output.

 

[Bl[i]tZ]

Abingdonboy,

The problem is not the rate of production at Russia.

With 1 more fighter the frist tranche of orders would be complete. All 16 have to go on Vikramaditya, which is supposed to be coming this December. IMO, the rate of production has been fast enough such that we've had these fighters from two years with no carrier.

WRT to the next tranche of 29 fighters, it would depend how fast we can put up the IAC-1.

 

[sancho]

Abingdonboy,

The problem is not the rate of production at Russia.

With 1 more fighter the frist tranche of orders would be complete. All 16 have to go on Vikramaditya, which is supposed to be coming this December. IMO, the rate of production has been fast enough such that we've had these fighters from two years with no carrier.

WRT to the next tranche of 29 fighters, it would depend how fast we can put up the IAC-1.

I see it the same way, the fact is, we neither have the test facilities at INS HANSA ready yet, nor any STOBAR carrier from where we can use these fighters. All we do is training pilots and ground crews in flying an operating the fighter, which could have been done even with 2nd hand Mig 29s from Russia.
I would even go so far to say, with the delays of the carrier, we should also have delayed the procurement of the fighters and insisted of speed up development of the Zhuk AE with naval modes. Training in the meantime could have been done as mentioned above, but the fighters we finally get, should be the most capable versions and although the Zhuk ME was the most capable radar when we ordered the carrier and the first 16 fighters, it won't by the time we really can use the fighters in operational service.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Abingdonboy,

The problem is not the rate of production at Russia.

With 1 more fighter the frist tranche of orders would be complete. All 16 have to go on Vikramaditya, which is supposed to be coming this December. IMO, the rate of production has been fast enough such that we've had these fighters from two years with no carrier.

WRT to the next tranche of 29 fighters, it would depend how fast we can put up the IAC-1.

I don't think it is the delivery schedule of the respective ACCs that is dictating the timeline for inducting Mig-29Ks. The IN has not asked for the production to be deliberately slowed down, this is counter intuitive. A production rte of 7-8 fighters a year is laughable by anyone's standards but is not surprising given Russia's track record. This is entirely down to Russian inefficiencies not ACC development.

I see it the same way, the fact is, we neither have the test facilities at INS HANSA ready yet, nor any STOBAR carrier from where we can use these fighters. All we do is training pilots and ground crews in flying an operating the fighter, which could have been done even with 2nd hand Mig 29s from Russia.
I would even go so far to say, with the delays of the carrier, we should also have delayed the procurement of the fighters and insisted of speed up development of the Zhuk AE with naval modes. Training in the meantime could have been done as mentioned above, but the fighters we finally get, should be the most capable versions and although the Zhuk ME was the most capable radar when we ordered the carrier and the first 16 fighters, it won't by the time we really can use the fighters in operational service.

So what if the Mig-29Ks have no ACCs to fly off? It is better that IN FAA pilots and ground handlers/mechanics get as much time with the machines as possible. There is no need to try and make sure the gap between fighter induction and ACC induction is as small as possible, of curse 2-3 years is pretty ridiculous but all this means is the IN crews will have a good handle on their machines come ACC induction. A scenario where carrier fighters are delivered within 6/1year of induction of ACC is not exactly ideal when it comes to safety and experience. Every minute spent my a pilot in the air with their fighter, regardless of whether they are operating from an ACC or not, is not wasted but is invaluable.

+ consider this, the IAF (in the form of TACDE) did not fully certify/devlop a full operational manual for IAF pilots for MKI till around 2007 for the MKI. Shows how long it can take to fully understand a new system especially in the 21st century when we are talking about these 4.5++ fighters.

 

[Archie]

I see it the same way, the fact is, we neither have the test facilities at INS HANSA ready yet, nor any STOBAR carrier from where we can use these fighters. All we do is training pilots and ground crews in flying an operating the fighter, which could have been done even with 2nd hand Mig 29s from Russia.
I would even go so far to say, with the delays of the carrier, we should also have delayed the procurement of the fighters and insisted of speed up development of the Zhuk AE with naval modes. Training in the meantime could have been done as mentioned above, but the fighters we finally get, should be the most capable versions and although the Zhuk ME was the most capable radar when we ordered the carrier and the first 16 fighters, it won't by the time we really can use the fighters in operational service.

Well you are right about Zhuk ME not being the most capable radar , but the thing is that it will take till atleast 2016 for Zhuk AE to mature enough for actual deployment , also The Mig29ks that we are inducting now will go in for MLU in 2025-27 , since these fighters will serve till yr 2040 , Hence I am sure that whatever short coming there are with the Mig29K , it will be taken care of

 

[sancho]

So what if the Mig-29Ks have no ACCs to fly off?

Honestly? That is the key to the fighter induction at all, otherwise we wouldn't need them. If we can't train the pilots at carrier take off and landing, if we can't train ground crews on how to maintain the fighters on board of the carrier with minimum spares, if we can't even train the carrier crew on how to operate the carrier itself, there is no reason anyway!

It is better that IN FAA pilots and ground handlers/mechanics get as much time with the machines as possible.

As mentioned, to learn the pilots how to fly a Mig 29 we could have jointly trained them with IAFs Mig 29SMT fighters, since both will be technically the same, apart from the engine. Same reason why ground crews of IAF and IN could have jointly learned how to maintain and repair the Migs at shore bases. For all this Mig 29Ks is not needed, the difference comes with the carrier or carrier testing facilities, which are not available.

+ consider this, the IAF (in the form of TACDE) did not fully certify/devlop a full operational manual for IAF pilots for MKI till around 2007 for the MKI. Shows how long it can take to fully understand a new system especially in the 21st century when we are talking about these 4.5++ fighters.

Because IAF nor any other Indian force had operated MKIs before, but if INs could have selected Su 33 MKIs, they also could have benefitted from joint training and experience of IAF right? And the same could have been the case with the Mig 29s and the base flight training.

Well you are right about Zhuk ME not being the most capable radar , but the thing is that it will take till atleast 2016 for Zhuk AE to mature enough for actual deployment , also The Mig29ks that we are inducting now will go in for MLU in 2025-27 , since these fighters will serve till yr 2040 , Hence I am sure that whatever short coming there are with the Mig29K , it will be taken care of

Zhuk AE was proposed by the Russians for 2013 and we have shortlisted EF with an AESA that is not even developed yet, nor would be mature in 2015 either. IN bought P8Is before a single one of them was tested, so that is really not an issue.
It is true though that we might get Zhuk AE with MLU, but that's exaclty my point! If we had delayed the Mig procurement for a year or two, the fighters would still come in time for the carrier, but we wouldn't need to wait 10 years to get an AESA for them, especially if IN wants AESA for N-LCA and any fighter that will be operated at IAC 2 by the end of this decade.