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Sino-India ties: many irritants remain

* Altamash Hashmi, CNN-IBN

Posted on Apr 05, 2010 at 12:53

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New Delhi: External Affairs Minister Krishna will start his four-day China visit on Monday. He will land in Beijing on Monday evening to mark 60 years of diplomatic ties with China.

India is expected to raise a host of issues from stapled visas for Kashmiris to reports of Chinese encroachments.

The Chinese Embassy in India has been issuing stapled visas to Kashmiris.

"There is the issue of Chinese construction in *****************-Kashmir which is an issue of concern as well as the issue of dual visas for those domiciled in Jammu and Kashmir," says External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash.

"There has been a growing assertiveness on the part of China. I think this is responsible for relatively unfriendly nature," says Associate Professor in Chinese Studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University Dr Srikanth Kondapalli.

Even the Chinese leaders are expected to indulge in some plain speaking. The collapse of the much celebrated G-2 alliance with Washington has left Beijing resentful and suspicious.

Chinese think tanks are claiming that India's rising defence spending is targeted at China. They also question Indian Navy's exercises in the South China Sea and have been asking 'how will India react in a conflict between the Chinese navy and Vietnam'.

They see an anti-China element in India's engagement with Washington

"India with a lot of strategic depth could be a candidate to live up to the Chinese. So I think the second factor is US-India relations and both coming much closer os not going really well with the Chinese," adds Kondapalli.

Krishna's visit may see movement on dates for the 14th round of talks on the disputed boundary.

But sources admitted that the past 13 rounds have made no breakthrough as India and China remain stuck in the shadow of 1962.
 
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Lets have a pragmatic policy with them, deal when advantegeous, kick them if otherwise.Thats the only way to deal with the Hans and the only way they understand.
 
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Lets have a pragmatic policy with them, deal when advantegeous, kick them if otherwise.Thats the only way to deal with the Hans and the only way they understand.

Please edit you racist post as not doing so will derail the thread.

China wants progress and so does India. Recently India and China have been increasing co-operation and China is displaying positive gestures towards India ..releasing positive statements ..and you must encourage this development rather than criticize the Chinese.

I apologize on behalf of him to all Chinese members.
 
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Sino-India ties: many irritants remain

* Altamash Hashmi, CNN-IBN

Posted on Apr 05, 2010 at 12:53

Print Email
Share Google Buzz

New Delhi: External Affairs Minister Krishna will start his four-day China visit on Monday. He will land in Beijing on Monday evening to mark 60 years of diplomatic ties with China.

India is expected to raise a host of issues from stapled visas for Kashmiris to reports of Chinese encroachments.

The Chinese Embassy in India has been issuing stapled visas to Kashmiris.

"There is the issue of Chinese construction in *****************-Kashmir which is an issue of concern as well as the issue of dual visas for those domiciled in Jammu and Kashmir," says External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash.

And they will continue to issue the stapled visas and building the dams in the "asteriske" Kashmir. Chinese never take their finger out of adversaries bleeding wound. I commend them for that. I wish that we too did that when we had opportunities and still continue to have them.


"There has been a growing assertiveness on the part of China. I think this is responsible for relatively unfriendly nature," says Associate Professor in Chinese Studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University Dr Srikanth Kondapalli.


Chinese believe in shrilling their opponents in to cowering down. So expect more of the shrill in the relationship. India should gear up for it with shrill factors of its own.

Even the Chinese leaders are expected to indulge in some plain speaking. The collapse of the much celebrated G-2 alliance with Washington has left Beijing resentful and suspicious.


It will be hard to consider that India could actually impact the "G-2" grand alliance plans between China & the U.S. India is not there yet so this is child speak.

Chinese think tanks are claiming that India's rising defence spending is targeted at China. They also question Indian Navy's exercises in the South China Sea and have been asking 'how will India react in a conflict between the Chinese navy and Vietnam'.


Depends on when the conflict occurs. If happens before the next ten years, then simple answer to this question.. India will do nothing unless there is a factual treaty with Vietnam with the blessings of the U.S. The idea in this plan has always been to bring the Asian rim countries together to rathchet up some sort of temporary alliance that keeps the neighbouring countries safe till the inherent systemic changes in China starts more towards democracy and less of hegemony.

They see an anti-China element in India's engagement with Washington

"India with a lot of strategic depth could be a candidate to live up to the Chinese. So I think the second factor is US-India relations and both coming much closer os not going really well with the Chinese," adds Kondapalli.


Yes the Chinese government knows this and will try their best to arm twist U.S on any or all fronts to do away with this relationship with India. It is already working. Obama administration has put it is cold storage or on an autopilot. We will have to wait for the administration to change in Washington or for U.S to be free of their commitments around the world till the focus comes back on the relationship with India.

Krishna's visit may see movement on dates for the 14th round of talks on the disputed boundary.

But sources admitted that the past 13 rounds have made no breakthrough as India and China remain stuck in the shadow of 1962.

And no such endeavour will bear fruit even in the future. China understands does not understand a language. They take their understandings from the pitch of the discussion. At the moment, our pitch is too low for the recievers there.
 
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at the end of the day nobody trusts nobody
 
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Behind China's India policy, a growing debate

Beyond the expected statements Chinese officials will exchange with External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna in Beijing this week, there is little consensus among different policymakers in Beijing on how to engage with a rising India.

Earlier this year, the United States' decision to approve a $ 6.4-billion arms sale to Taiwan sparked a series of agitated commentaries in China's military journals. The tone will sound somewhat familiar to an Indian audience: it reflected a growing anxiety among strategists that the U.S. was building a “crescent-shaped ring” to encircle and contain China. Interestingly, much of the debate focussed on what role India would — or would not — play in a supposed U.S.-led “encirclement.” Some strategists expressed concern that an eventual “integration of India” into an American alliance “would profoundly affect China's security,” as the official China Daily reported. Dai Xu, an Air Force Colonel of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), warned that China needed to be vigilant against this growing network running “from Japan to India” that would suffocate China.

Others, however, were not so convinced, and instead sought to calm the tensions. Pei Yuanying, former Chinese Ambassador to India, said India, as “an independent international power in the international arena,” was “unlikely to be part of any such U.S. scheme.” Shen Dingli, one of the leading voices in the strategic community in Beijing, also disagreed with Dai's views in an interview with The Hindu, suggesting that the current relationship was sound enough for China to have no reason to worry about India's ties with the U.S.

These differing views point to an ongoing debate in Beijing on a question that many policymakers are grappling with: how should China engage with a rising India? On one side of the debate are voices from the PLA, who are pressing Beijing to take a harder line with India and who see little room for cooperation between two rivals. On the other are voices in the Hu Jintao government and official think tanks, which are pushing for a more moderate and non-confrontational foreign policy line, one which they see as crucial to China's own self-interest and continued development.

The military view

The appearance of a number of articles and commentaries last year in military journals and official Communist Party-run newspapers has led some to suggest that the first group is increasingly beginning to have its voice heard. In recent months, articles in influential publications like the People's Daily, have taken a noticeably harder line on India, accusing New Delhi of “arrogance” and calling on China to take a stronger position on the border dispute. The People's Daily, in particular, has also begun to devote extensive coverage to India's military build-up, frequently speaking of an “India threat.”

The articles more or less reflected the “PLA view” of Sino-Indian ties, according to Srikanth Kondapalli, a professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University who studies the Chinese military. According to him and other analysts, this view is predicated on three basic policy positions on India. The first assumes that India is seeking to become a great power. The policy response is to support Pakistan, which China continues to do, and confine India's influence to South Asia. The second, he says, assumes that India has “hegemonic ambitions in South Asia” — a phrase often used by the People's Daily last year. The policy response in China is to “oppose hegemony” by supporting smaller states in South Asia, like Nepal and Bangladesh. The third is on India's presence in the Indian Ocean, and the policy response is to strengthen China's naval capabilities.

The other view

Much as the PLA is influential, its view by no means reflects a consensus opinion among the highest policymakers. Besides the PLA, there are at least three groups which have a role in shaping China's India policy, including commercial lobbies, retired officials and a select group of India scholars in official think tanks. This section tends to view the relationship beyond the narrow military paradigm of the PLA. It argues that despite the persisting mistrust between the countries, it is in China's own interest, both from the point of view of sustaining its economic development and its standing as a responsible world power, to have harmonious relations with India and a peaceful periphery.

“Many people in the Chinese government realise that despite historical differences, there are growing commonalities in relations between the two countries and their positions on international issues,” says Ma Jiali, a leading South Asia scholar at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), who advises the government on its India policy. “There is also the common goal that both countries do not want to see a unipolar world.” He considers “four roles” India plays in shaping his policy view — “a close neighbour, a developing country with common goals, a rising power and an increasingly important international player.” “The basic fact is,” he continues, “we must have good relations with India, or our national interest will be damaged.”

His view is echoed by Sun Shihai, another influential ‘India hand' at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. He says he “completely disagrees” with the policy views voiced by the nationalistic commentaries in much of the official media last year. “Many of those reports misperceived India very deeply,” says Professor Sun. “Among most scholars at least, there is a growing awareness that India's power is rising, its international status is rising, and these facts are a reality that cannot be altered.” He believes that it is in China's self-interest to work with India on issues in which the countries have a common stake such as climate change and combating terrorism. “China has more respect [now] for India's rise, and it is in our interest to co-operate where we can, as we did so effectively last year at Copenhagen [on climate change],” he says. “But as two rising powers with growing international roles and strategic weight, cooperation and competition will be natural. What the governments need to do is manage the competition and avoid conflict. Most serious scholars are of this view.”

Reading the debate

Do these different views matter to India? Chinese foreign policy is ultimately decided at the highest levels of the ruling Communist Party's Central Committee using these various inputs. But how these inputs get used is “an extremely complicated process,” says Prof. Kondapalli. “Various groups put out their agenda to try and have their opinions heard, but what is eventually decided depends on who has greater influence at a given moment in time.” For now though, the outcome of this debate still seems uncertain. “The academic community appears to follow a soft and co-operative line while the PLA maintains its stridency to keep India on tenterhooks,” says Brigadier (retd.) Arun Sahgal of the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, New Delhi.

Until there is greater clarity on its outcome, the mistrust between the countries will likely persist. For usually, it is only the harder “PLA view” of India that gets covered in the media, serving as fodder for the often over-hyped ‘China threat' perspectives dished out by strategic analysts. Part of the reason, no doubt, is that these views are more “newsworthy” than balanced views from the government and other scholars. But another factor behind misperceptions is the continuing opacity in China's own government, in both policy-making and the state's control of the media.

“The main problem in understanding China's policies is the lack of transparency, which often leads to misperceptions” Prof. Kondapalli says. Consequently, even extreme opinions, from any media outlet, often tend to be regarded as Beijing's official line, and drown out other views even if they are no more than voices in an ongoing debate. And until China becomes more transparent, analysts say, external observers will likely continue to imagine the worst when reading the tea leaves.
 
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Please edit you racist post as not doing so will derail the thread.

China wants progress and so does India. Recently India and China have been increasing co-operation and China is displaying positive gestures towards India ..releasing positive statements ..and you must encourage this development rather than criticize the Chinese.

I apologize on behalf of him to all Chinese members.

First of all my post is not racist if u feel that way well thats ur opinion.I just laid out as to how we should be dealing with the chinese since they also have been dealing with us the same way.U dont like it.Tough luck.U want apologize to the chinese on my behalf, your prerogative, continue.Lastly my views are not going to be changed and I firmly stick by them.In case u have a problem , boss remember to every man his own.Thanks.
 
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Sino-India ties: many irritants remain

* Altamash Hashmi, CNN-IBN

Posted on Apr 05, 2010 at 12:53

Print Email
Share Google Buzz

New Delhi: External Affairs Minister Krishna will start his four-day China visit on Monday. He will land in Beijing on Monday evening to mark 60 years of diplomatic ties with China.

India is expected to raise a host of issues from stapled visas for Kashmiris to reports of Chinese encroachments.

The Chinese Embassy in India has been issuing stapled visas to Kashmiris.

"There is the issue of Chinese construction in *****************-Kashmir which is an issue of concern as well as the issue of dual visas for those domiciled in Jammu and Kashmir," says External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash.

"There has been a growing assertiveness on the part of China. I think this is responsible for relatively unfriendly nature," says Associate Professor in Chinese Studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University Dr Srikanth Kondapalli.

Even the Chinese leaders are expected to indulge in some plain speaking. The collapse of the much celebrated G-2 alliance with Washington has left Beijing resentful and suspicious.

Chinese think tanks are claiming that India's rising defence spending is targeted at China. They also question Indian Navy's exercises in the South China Sea and have been asking 'how will India react in a conflict between the Chinese navy and Vietnam'.

They see an anti-China element in India's engagement with Washington

"India with a lot of strategic depth could be a candidate to live up to the Chinese. So I think the second factor is US-India relations and both coming much closer os not going really well with the Chinese," adds Kondapalli.

Krishna's visit may see movement on dates for the 14th round of talks on the disputed boundary.

But sources admitted that the past 13 rounds have made no breakthrough as India and China remain stuck in the shadow of 1962.

Look on the bright side. Every country has some spats with other countries at some times.

The border disputes and Kashmir are almost completely resolved.

China and India are very close trading partners and maintain one of the closest economic relations in the world.

China and India are also both committed to peace.

China and India are agreeing to increase military cooperation (aerial war games in 2012)

China and India agree that relations are in its best period in history

China and India are establishing a stragetic partnership (meaning that China and India are establishing an alliance)

Nowadays, relations have improved so much that China and India are considered as de facto allies.

Of course, each nation can learn from the other. For example, India could learn economic & technology strategy from China while China could learn political reforms & democracy from India.
 
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And they will continue to issue the stapled visas and building the dams in the "asteriske" Kashmir. Chinese never take their finger out of adversaries bleeding wound. I commend them for that. I wish that we too did that when we had opportunities and still continue to have them.





Chinese believe in shrilling their opponents in to cowering down. So expect more of the shrill in the relationship. India should gear up for it with shrill factors of its own.




It will be hard to consider that India could actually impact the "G-2" grand alliance plans between China & the U.S. India is not there yet so this is child speak.




Depends on when the conflict occurs. If happens before the next ten years, then simple answer to this question.. India will do nothing unless there is a factual treaty with Vietnam with the blessings of the U.S. The idea in this plan has always been to bring the Asian rim countries together to rathchet up some sort of temporary alliance that keeps the neighbouring countries safe till the inherent systemic changes in China starts more towards democracy and less of hegemony.




Yes the Chinese government knows this and will try their best to arm twist U.S on any or all fronts to do away with this relationship with India. It is already working. Obama administration has put it is cold storage or on an autopilot. We will have to wait for the administration to change in Washington or for U.S to be free of their commitments around the world till the focus comes back on the relationship with India.



And no such endeavour will bear fruit even in the future. China understands does not understand a language. They take their understandings from the pitch of the discussion. At the moment, our pitch is too low for the recievers there.

Agni III doesn't pose threat, we share friendly relations with India: China - India - The Times of India

BEIJING: Describing its ties with India as "friendly and cooperative," China today said both countries did not pose mutual threat.

Dismissing reports that India's nuclear-capable Agni-III missile, which has a range of 3,500 km posed a threat to China, Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said China and India shared friendly and cooperative relations.

"I don't want to interpret or comment on the reports," Ma said when asked to comment on the February seven launch of Agni-III which put China's major cities within its strike range.

"The China-India relation is friendly and cooperative. China will not be a threat to India, and nor will India pose a threat to China," Ma was quoted as saying by state-run Xinhua news agency.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu refused to comment on the reports at a regular news briefing, only saying that China-India relations maintain their good momentum.

"Bilateral ties will move forward with the joint effort of both countries," he said.

This shows how much trust and effort China has put into India and improving relations. China believes that no Indian missiles can harm china NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR CAPABILITIES, but because friendly relations will remove any chance of war.
 
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ONE QUESTION TO ALL MY CHIANEESE FREINDS WHAT IS THE REASON FOR STAPLED VISAS TO KASHMIRIES AND REGULAR VISAS TO REST OF INDIANS

PLEASE EXPLAIN


:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:
 
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Agni III doesn't pose threat, we share friendly relations with India: China - India - The Times of India

BEIJING: Describing its ties with India as "friendly and cooperative," China today said both countries did not pose mutual threat.

Dismissing reports that India's nuclear-capable Agni-III missile, which has a range of 3,500 km posed a threat to China, Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said China and India shared friendly and cooperative relations.

"I don't want to interpret or comment on the reports," Ma said when asked to comment on the February seven launch of Agni-III which put China's major cities within its strike range.

"The China-India relation is friendly and cooperative. China will not be a threat to India, and nor will India pose a threat to China," Ma was quoted as saying by state-run Xinhua news agency.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu refused to comment on the reports at a regular news briefing, only saying that China-India relations maintain their good momentum.

"Bilateral ties will move forward with the joint effort of both countries," he said.

This shows how much trust and effort China has put into India and improving relations. China believes that no Indian missiles can harm china NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR CAPABILITIES, but because friendly relations will remove any chance of war.

ONE QUESTION TO ALL MY CHIANEESE FRENDS WHAT IS THE REASON FOR STAPLED VISAS TO KASHMIRIES AND REGULAR VISAS TI REST OF INDIANS

PLEASE EXPLAIN
 
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ONE QUESTION TO ALL MY CHIANEESE FRENDS WHAT IS THE REASON FOR STAPLED VISAS TO KASHMIRIES AND REGULAR VISAS TI REST OF INDIANS

PLEASE EXPLAIN

Agni 3 and the intent of Agni V is the real reason for bhaichara.Only strenght respects strenght And they dont have an answer for obvious reasons.They will stab at the back so keeping daggers ready.thats all
 
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I HADNT GOT ANY REPLY FROM CHIANEESE MEMBERS
 
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I HADNT GOT ANY REPLY FROM CHIANEESE MEMBERS

Stop flaming. You already know the answer but you only want a Chinese member to type it for you.

Truth is that they used to do it but they do not do it anymore since this month.. This is one of the "positive developments" I was talking about.

China-India friendship will be extremely fruitful for both the gigantic nations of Asia and it will be a cause for worry to the rest of the world.

My only wish is that China stop "selling" defense equipment for free/credit to we know who.
 
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Stop flaming. You already know the answer but you only want a Chinese member to type it for you.

Truth is that they used to do it but they do not do it anymore since this month.. This is one of the "positive developments" I was talking about.

China-India friendship will be extremely fruitful for both the gigantic nations of Asia and it will be a cause for worry to the rest of the world.

My only wish is that China stop "selling" defense equipment for free/credit to we know who.

Free weapons is something I realise is a sore point, but are you forgetting the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS that the US gives to Pakistan? This is far more than we do.

Anyway it won't matter if they have a few more JF 17s, it won't win them a war.
 
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