'India blocking China's entry into SAARC to retain supremacy'

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistani members getting too cozy about dreams of a total economic alliance with china should think a little deeply.Its not a simple matter of spiting india.
What will happen in infrastructure development is in return all projects will be awarded to chinese companies leading to mass outflow of revenue from pakistan.As they will have control of projects they will control local employment,which they generally do by bringing in their own workers.
Two they will exploit ur natural resources at their pleasure and their terms and u won't be able to do a damn thing abt it - because western companies aren't willing to invest due to insurgency problem.So basically chinese will suck the resources dry like a colony at dirt price.Monopoly,especially foreign one always ends badly.Historical fact.
Finally-free trade en masse will annihilate the remnants of the indigeneous pakistani manufacturing industries.Particularly textile industry which accounts for 63% pak exports and 20% of all pak labour employment.

Joining the proposed silk road using pak as a transit route is the one excellent proposal in which pak has only to gain-but only if iran and afghanisthan play nice,unrest in middle east ends and gwadar operationalized from current white elephant state.

Pakistan has been awarding infrastructure contracts to Chinese companies for decades - while the Chinese will bring in some of their technical experts on each project, the labor and other engineers used are almost entirely Pakistani.

 

[Judge]

Does this mean Pak can continue to refuse any agreement and f other members as well?

Yes.
Even if one nation disagrees, any proposal cannot go through. This prevents domination of any country over the other.

It also comes with strings attached though - Pakistan kept blocking regional developmental proposals as retaliation for India refusing China's membership. This SAARC summit therefore became a Pakistan vs Rest of SAARC because everyone else wanted those proposals to go through. It resulted in loss of credibility/influence for Pakistan in those member states where it did have some influence - like Sri Lanka.

once again lets wait and see,china s got dough,it can help us all economically and socially you do realize that?

Yes, and China is free to do any aid/assistance bilaterally with any member state of SAARC. There is no need for them to join SAARC for any economic benefit.

 

[WAJsal]

Yes.
Even if one nation disagrees, any proposal cannot go through. This prevents domination of any country over the other.

It also comes with strings attached though - Pakistan kept blocking regional developmental proposals as retaliation for India refusing China's membership. This SAARC summit therefore became a Pakistan vs Rest of SAARC because everyone else wanted those proposals to go through. It resulted in loss of credibility/influence for Pakistan in those member states where it did have some influence - like Sri Lanka.


Yes, and China is free to do any aid/assistance bilaterally with any member state of SAARC. There is no need for them to join SAARC for any economic benefit.

jealousy i guess

 

[Judge]

Good, Saarc is useless anyway. I hope Pakistan does the same in 2016.

Your nation realized the result of its actions that is why in the last moment they agreed to a couple of proposals.

In any case, as I mentioned, India already realized that SAARC will yield little results as long as Pakistan is there and is therefore signing bilateral treaties with SAARC member states.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Industries are infact locating to Bangladesh. That is testament to how it will help the smaller neighbours.
Pakistan is also enroute to becoming competitive in manufacturing - why else is India importing cement from Pakistan. Because Pakistan's labour costs are lesser than India's and regulatory environment better. The security situation is on course to improve in the coming years.

Which would only mean that Pakistan would be competitive irrespective of whether China becomes a part of SAARC or not - please keep in mind that Pakistan and China have an existing FTA signed in 2006, and China has not destroyed all of Pakistan's traditional local manufacturing in the years since, despite the Pakistani economy struggling with severe security and energy crises. Continued increases in Chinese labor costs and improving Pakistani energy, infrastructure and security dynamics will only help Pakistan in attracting even more investment in her manufacturing sector, so the fears of China drowning out local manufacturing are unwarranted IMO.

For political reasons.

If by "political reasons' you are referring to territorial disputes, then half of the existing members of SAARC should not be part of the group because of their "territorial disputes" with each other.

US is rather keen on joining up and they have pushed India repeatedly to get them in.
And the logic is entirely the same - if we let US, China, Japan and assorted countries join up - then what is the difference between WTO and SAARC.

Like I said, if the US wants to open her markets to all SAARC member states, then please, by all means make them a member. However, where US/Japan membership will fail is with open borders, travel and infrastructure and energy connectivity. China is a developing country like the rest of SAARC and has geographical contiguity and as such is far more amenable to relaxing travel restrictions and can certainly play a role in infrastructure connectivity that the other countries you mentioned cannot.

Because our geography and peculiar political needs are different and therefore needs a separate grouping. I am surprised at your question.
The reason is the same why we have regional groupings - and why we dont all discuss political issues in the UN which already has all of South Asia in it.

Geographically China is contiguous to Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, so that certainly isn't a good reason, and what exactly are these "peculiar political needs" that you are referring to, that would not be addressed with China as a member of SAARC?

 

[mike2000]

I agree u have to but the biggest benefit will be trade with india as people use similar commodities so its way easier and transportation is easier too.

I agree with He-man on this. Pakistan and India have to move on from their historical distrust/conflict and forge a new path of mutually benefitial trade/business between each other(which is alwasy better than loans/'Aid') which will help people in both countries/region. In fact as i have said several times on here, South Asia in general(being by far the poorest/least intergrated region in Asia akin to the poorest sub saharan african countries) have alot to learn from their east Asian and even South East Asian(ASEAN) peers who are all more intergrated/trade alot with each other thereby helping people improve their livelihood/living standards. Loans/isolation/paranoia/resentment/comflict/religion/hostility etc wont help south Asian countries grow/develop one bit. It will only hold them back while other Asian regions keep growing/enlarging the gap between them and south Asia. So south Asia needs to first realise improving trade among themselves and then the whole region is the best way to improve their living standards and will benefit them all, not just one country, once they have come to this understanding then that will be the beginning of a new day for south Asia indeed.

They have to know that you can still be rivals/ennemies and yet still trade among yourselves just like China and Japan(two nemensis/bitter rivals as well) trade/invest with each other than any other country on planet earth, bar the U.S and Europe(as a block though). So why cant these south asian countries learn from this example instead of being paranoid with their rivals/imaginary ennemies? I have been to a few south Asian countries :India, Maldives(holidays),Sri lanka, Bengladesh(just a day though), and Nepal, all of them lack far behind east asia(Sri lanka isn't that bad though, they still seem to be doing quite well compared to their south asian neighbours, Maldives as well but they are too small though). In this regard i think it wouldnt do any bad to allow China in this group, if it will help improve connectivity/trade/dynamism in this group(i had never even heard of SAARC before in my life, even though i follow international news alot.lol). You can still all compete better while in the same group, it shouldnt always be a zero sum game buddy.

 

[Green Arrow]

I think with the inclusion of China, Saarc will work better

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Imagine if China vetos Indian induction in SCO. Pakistan will be an SCO member, ECO as well as SAARC while we'll get an observer status in GCC too. We don't wan't to be in SAARC but we have to be there so we can spoil your party by itroducing a bigger fish to the pond

It's all politics and not based on morality.

All members of SAARC know what Pakistan brings to the table. Deals are signed among other countries only. Pakistan watches from the sidelines only. So de-facto Pakistan is out. Pakistan has no clout to bring China in either.

As for SCO, India will be in SCO if it is in the best interests of the biggest fish in SCO. And it does not on the wish of Pakistan, but on what India is able to bring in.

 

[damiendehorn]

SARRCasm: Expensive heads of state meeting to decide when the next meeting is going to take place...LOL.

 

[wolfpack]

The question was directed to you, not Horus, regarding the "apprehensions that all SA countries excluding Pakistan" have about China joining SAARC - I take it then that there are no legitimate apprehensions, and the refusal to allow China to join is based on Indian paranoia and insecurity complexes ..

Look whole of India has the same landmass almost equal to EUROPE!
So yeah we do make a difference, you are a recent construct and yet to make history,WHO LOST PAST ALL 4 WARS AGAINST US!
you got nothing to boast of! we know you better than anyone perhaps like a elder brother towards a younger brother, i know the younger brother wont like the dominance of elder brother but he has to bear it because the elder one looks out for the family and its inevitable the elder one will lead.
You trying China is like "Ghar ke bahar aadmi andar" naa woh tera bhala chahega ya na usko koi faraq padega, woh toh bus tumhe pitthu ki tarah use kar rahe hai"
Kuch toh sharam karo,tumhare bade bhai itne aage nikal gaye aur tum chote wahi ka wahi reh gaye?
Wapas aao apne ghar, aur dekho tumhari bade bhai utna khatarnaak aur zalim nahin hai jaise tumhe bola jaata hai, Akhir bhai to bhai hota hai,aaj nahin to kal aapko aana padega hamare paas,bus hum yahein chahte hain ki,aap ki bhalayi ho aur aap acche rahein!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Look whole of India has the same landmass almost equal to EUROPE!
So yeah we do make a difference, you are a recent construct and yet to make history,WHO LOST PAST ALL 4 WARS AGAINST US!
you got nothing to boast of! we know you better than anyone perhaps like a elder brother towards a younger brother, i know the younger brother wont like the dominance of elder brother but he has to bear it because the elder one looks out for the family and its inevitable the elder one will lead.
You trying China is like "Ghar ke bahar aadmi andar" naa woh tera bhala chahega ya na usko koi faraq padega, woh toh bus tumhe pitthu ki tarah use kar rahe hai"
Kuch toh sharam karo,tumhare bade bhai itne aage nikal gaye aur tum chote wahi ka wahi reh gaye?
Wapas aao apne ghar, aur dekho tumhari bade bhai utna khatarnaak aur zalim nahin hai jaise tumhe bola jaata hai, Akhir bhai to bhai hota hai,aaj nahin to kal aapko aana padega hamare paas,bus hum yahein chahte hain ki,aap ki bhalayi ho aur aap acche rahein!

None of that nonsensical tirade answered a single part of my post.

Try again please, and I'll break it down for you to ease the comprehension - what are the specific reasons (outside of the geography excuse, which has been rebutted) behind India's rejection of Chinese membership in SAARC?

 

[wolfpack]

None of that nonsensical tirade answered a single part of my post. Try again please.

That is not Nonsense but,truth, you may deny it now it will be reality.
I know you can read it ,its the proof that i got my message across!
I only plant the seed and then he waters it!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That is not Nonsense but,truth, you may deny it now but i know you can read it is the proof that i got my message across!
I only plant the seed and then he waters it!

You still haven't answered any of my questions - please refer to post#110 & 116.