Independence of Kashmir - Lt. Gen Amjad Shuaib

[Sayfullah]

Good video everyone in Pakistan especially our generals and politicians should watch.

 

[MultaniGuy]

A student of Political Science would say Maharaja Hari Singh was being dishonest about the Kashmir issue.
1.) He did not take demographics (Muslim majority of 75%) and geography (Indus River) into consideration.

2.) He even signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan before doing any communications with India.
The Standstill agreement means continuing communications, transportation, and other economic
links with Pakistan.
That is the narrative.


3.) The Instrument of Accession document is not provided by the Indian government indicating dishonesty.

4.) Had Kashmir been a regular province of the British Raj empire, it would have gone to Pakistan like Sindh province.

Enough said. We must take what is rightfully ours.

 

[Sayfullah]

A student of Political Science would say Maharaja Hari Singh was being dishonest about the Kashmir issue.
1.) He did not take demographics (Muslim majority of 75%) and geography (Indus River) into consideration.

2.) He even signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan before doing any communications with India.
The Standstill agreement means continuing communications, transportation, and other economic
links with Pakistan.
That is the narrative.


3.) The Instrument of Accession document is not provided by the Indian government indicating dishonesty.

4.) Had Kashmir been a regular province of the British Raj empire, it would have gone to Pakistan like Sindh province.

Enough said. We must take what is rightfully ours.

The whole argument that Hari Singh and dogra occupiers could decide for the occupied Muslims is wrong. Hari Singh was a dogra occupier who could only represent dogra population of Jammu. The rest of J&K state had been resisting the dogra occupation for decades before Pakistan was even made. Once Pakistan was made before Pakistan did anything, Muslims from poonch did a rebellion to free themselves form dogra occupation and join Pakistan. Gilgit freed it self from dogra occupation and joined Pakistan. Muslims from all over J&K rose in rebellion against dogra occupiers to join Pakistan.
Hari Singh even committed Jammu Genocide because the Muslims of Jammu wanted to join Pakistan. Dogra occupiers massacred 600k Muslims in Jammu alone turning a Muslim majority Jammu into Hindu majority.

Dogra occupiers can’t decide for occupied territories in J&K state so, even if hari singh acceded to india it still is illegal. One occupier state joining another.
Muslims of J&K the day they started in poonch the day poonch rebellion started was the day they decided their future is with Pakistan and no one else!

 

[MultaniGuy]

The whole argument that Hari Singh and dogra occupiers could decide for the occupied Muslims is wrong. Hari Singh was a dogra occupier who could only represent dogra population of Jammu. The rest of J&K state had been resisting the dogra occupation for decades before Pakistan was even made. Once Pakistan was made before Pakistan did anything, Muslims from poonch did a rebellion to free themselves form dogra occupation and join Pakistan. Gilgit freed it self from dogra occupation and joined Pakistan. Muslims from all over J&K rose in rebellion against dogra occupiers to join Pakistan.
Hari Singh even committed Jammu Genocide because the Muslims of Jammu wanted to join Pakistan. Dogra occupiers massacred 600k Muslims in Jammu alone turning a Muslim majority Jammu into Hindu majority.

Dogra occupiers can’t decide for occupied territories in J&K state so, even if hari singh acceded to india it still is illegal. One occupier state joining another.
Muslims of J&K the day they started in poonch the day poonch rebellion started was the day they decided their future is with Pakistan and no one else!

You are 100% correct.

1) You forgot to mention that Louis Mountbatten of Burma said that the princely states could accede to either to Pakistan or India.

2) But he said the princely state ruler needs to take the demographics into considerations before acceding to Pakistan or India.

3) A Plebiscite/Referendum is supposed to be held in the princely state if they want to accede to either Pakistan or India, once they have acceded to that particular country according to the rules of partition.

That womanizer Nehru was not being impartial about the Kashmir matter as well.

Even Sir Owen Dixon, that Australian lawyer said hold a plebiscite in Kashmir to determine the destiny of the land.

 

[Binod]

It's a dead horse ,it's time to move on with reference to kashmir.

There is not much Pakistan can do to take back kashmir and the same applies to India for gilgit Bautista.

The whole point of the point is blaming India on baluchistan and the world community on keeping quiet.on both the counts Pakistan narrative is flawed and that's why they don't get any support internationally.

But the problem is Pakistan was the one who started it in 89 after the soviet union withdrawal from Afghanistan. Till then there was no terrorism in kashmir.

You are 100% correct.

1) You forgot to mention that Louis Mountbatten of Burma said that the princely states could accede to either to Pakistan or India.

2) But he said the princely state ruler needs to take the demographics into considerations before acceding to Pakistan or India.

3) A Plebiscite/Referendum is supposed to be held in the princely state if they want to accede to either Pakistan or India, once they have acceded to that particular country according to the rules of partition.

That womanizer Nehru was not being impartial about the Kashmir matter as well.

Even Sir Owen Dixon, that Australian lawyer said hold a plebiscite in Kashmir to determine the destiny of the land.

There is partial truth in it and not the whole truth. Even if we take your claims as whe truth why did not Pakistan us the same yardstick when claiming Junagadh and Hyderabad.

 

[MultaniGuy]

It's a dead horse ,it's time to move on with reference to kashmir.

There is not much Pakistan can do to take back kashmir and the same applies to India for gilgit Bautista.

The whole point of the point is blaming India on baluchistan and the world community on keeping quiet.on both the counts Pakistan narrative is flawed and that's why they don't get any support internationally.

But the problem is Pakistan was the one who started it in 89 after the soviet union withdrawal from Afghanistan. Till then there was no terrorism in kashmir.


There is partial truth in it and not the whole truth. Even if we take your claims as whe truth why did not Pakistan us the same yardstick when claiming Junagadh and Hyderabad.

Actually Pakistan claims Junagadh. Imran Khan put it in his new map

As for Hyderabad state, it was surrounded by India and no outlet to the Bay of Bengal.

Stop lying here. There is no half-truths here. I spoke the truth, even according to United Nations observers.

From a legal perspective we have the moral ground, you Indians just want to steal land.

It's a dead horse ,it's time to move on with reference to kashmir.

There is not much Pakistan can do to take back kashmir and the same applies to India for gilgit Bautista.

The whole point of the point is blaming India on baluchistan and the world community on keeping quiet.on both the counts Pakistan narrative is flawed and that's why they don't get any support internationally.

But the problem is Pakistan was the one who started it in 89 after the soviet union withdrawal from Afghanistan. Till then there was no terrorism in kashmir.


There is partial truth in it and not the whole truth. Even if we take your claims as whe truth why did not Pakistan us the same yardstick when claiming Junagadh and Hyderabad.

Kashmir is disputed territory according to the United Nations. Stop supporting your terrorism in Balochistan.

United Nations do not recognize Jammu and Kashmir as being Indian territory.

In the end Jungadh and Hyderabad went to India because they were Hindu majority.
The rulers of the princely states had to take demographics into consideration.
These are not half-truths but facts.

You are ignorant.

We Pakistanis are legally correct on the Kashmir dispute according to the United Nations.

Nice try kiddo.

 

[MultaniGuy]

It's a dead horse ,it's time to move on with reference to kashmir.

There is not much Pakistan can do to take back kashmir and the same applies to India for gilgit Bautista.

The whole point of the point is blaming India on baluchistan and the world community on keeping quiet.on both the counts Pakistan narrative is flawed and that's why they don't get any support internationally.

But the problem is Pakistan was the one who started it in 89 after the soviet union withdrawal from Afghanistan. Till then there was no terrorism in kashmir.


There is partial truth in it and not the whole truth. Even if we take your claims as whe truth why did not Pakistan us the same yardstick when claiming Junagadh and Hyderabad.

You are funny kiddo,

Even Jawaharlal Nehru promised the world to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir to determine the destiny of the land.

Nehru never kept his promise on Kashmir’​

B. Kolappan
CHENNAI, August 09, 2019 01:28 IST
Updated: August 09, 2019 01:28 IST

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Vaiko says Cong. failed to hold plebiscite​

Despite coming under attack from State Congress leaders, MDMK general secretary Vaiko on Thursday reiterated his stand that the Congress betrayed the people of Kashmir, saying it never kept its promise to hold a plebiscite in the valley.
“The then Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru promised a plebiscite in 1947 and made Hari Singh sign the agreement for the annexure of Kashmir with India. Later, he imprisoned National Conference leader Sheikh Abdulla. India’s representative in the United Nations, M.C. Chagla, told the UN that three elections conducted in Kashmir amounted to a plebiscite. There could be no greater betrayal than this act of the Congress,” Mr. Vaiko told The Hindu when asked what prompted him to hit out at the Congress in the Rajya Sabha.
Mr. Vaiko also took the position that he was not elected to the Upper House with the support of the Congress MLAs, though he came from a family of Congress.
Recalling his meeting with Sheikh Abdullah, Mr. Vaiko recalled Sheikh Abdullah as saying “There is no place either for gratitude or friendship in the dictionary of the Congress.”

‘A bloodbath’​

Mr. Vaiko also castigated the BJP government, saying it had created a threat of bloodbath in the country.
“Innocent people will be killed on both sides,” he said.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/nehru-never-kept-his-promise-on-kashmir/article28919026.ece

Even your Indian leaders have admitted it themselves, that they did their best to prevent and/or delay a plebiscite from happening in Kashmir region.

indian stop polluting PDF with your filth. Go work on building toilets first.

The Indians leaders have betrayed their people. That is why the time for negotiation is over.

Nehru lied. The Indian National Congress lied as well. They think that by wasting time they can make the Line of Control the international border.
They are mistaken. Pakistan and China gets stronger by the day.

One day they will be a regional war where China and Pakistan will tear India apart.

 

[Binod]

Actually Pakistan claims Junagadh. Imran Khan put it in his new map

As for Hyderabad state, it was surrounded by India and no outlet to the Bay of Bengal.

Stop lying here. There is no half-truths here. I spoke the truth, even according to United Nations observers.

From a legal perspective we have the moral ground, you Indians just want to steal land.


Kashmir is disputed territory according to the United Nations. Stop supporting your terrorism in Balochistan.

United Nations do not recognize Jammu and Kashmir as being Indian territory.

In the end Jungadh and Hyderabad went to India because they were Hindu majority.
The rulers of the princely states had to take demographics into consideration.
These are not half-truths but facts.

You are ignorant.

We Pakistanis are legally correct on the Kashmir dispute according to the United Nations.

Nice try kiddo.

Thats the point you guys don't understand what you talk. On kashmir you claim it because of higher Muslim population but on Junagadh and Hyderabad, you still want to claim inspire of higher Hindu population.And you want rest of the world to take you seriously.

 

[MultaniGuy]

indian stop polluting PDF with your filth. Go work on building toilets first.

No, let him speak his filth. He can be answered using sound arguments and reasoning.

Thats the point you guys don't understand what you talk. On kashmir you claim it because of higher Muslim population but on Junagadh and Hyderabad, you still want to claim inspire of higher Hindu population.And you want rest of the world to take you seriously.

No Pakistani government claims Hyderabad state.
You just defeated yourself and tacitly accepted that Jammu and Kashmir state is a Muslim majority. It is under Indian occupation.

Jammu and Kashmir under Indian occupation is 67% Muslim majority.

Junagadh went to India because the majority was Hindu. Same with Hyderabad state.

 

[Binod]

You are funny kiddo,

Even Jawaharlal Nehru promised the world to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir to determine the destiny of the land.

Nehru never kept his promise on Kashmir’​

B. Kolappan
CHENNAI, August 09, 2019 01:28 IST
Updated: August 09, 2019 01:28 IST

• Share Article
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• PRINT
• A A A

Vaiko says Cong. failed to hold plebiscite​

Despite coming under attack from State Congress leaders, MDMK general secretary Vaiko on Thursday reiterated his stand that the Congress betrayed the people of Kashmir, saying it never kept its promise to hold a plebiscite in the valley.
“The then Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru promised a plebiscite in 1947 and made Hari Singh sign the agreement for the annexure of Kashmir with India. Later, he imprisoned National Conference leader Sheikh Abdulla. India’s representative in the United Nations, M.C. Chagla, told the UN that three elections conducted in Kashmir amounted to a plebiscite. There could be no greater betrayal than this act of the Congress,” Mr. Vaiko told The Hindu when asked what prompted him to hit out at the Congress in the Rajya Sabha.
Mr. Vaiko also took the position that he was not elected to the Upper House with the support of the Congress MLAs, though he came from a family of Congress.
Recalling his meeting with Sheikh Abdullah, Mr. Vaiko recalled Sheikh Abdullah as saying “There is no place either for gratitude or friendship in the dictionary of the Congress.”

‘A bloodbath’​

Mr. Vaiko also castigated the BJP government, saying it had created a threat of bloodbath in the country.
“Innocent people will be killed on both sides,” he said.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/nehru-never-kept-his-promise-on-kashmir/article28919026.ece

Even your Indian leaders have admitted it themselves, that they did their best to prevent and/or delay a plebiscite from happening in Kashmir region.


The Indians leaders have betrayed their people. That is why the time for negotiation is over.

Nehru lied. The Indian National Congress lied as well. They think that by wasting time they can make the Line of Control the international border.
They are mistaken. Pakistan and China gets stronger by the day.

One day they will be a regional war where China and Pakistan will tear India apart.

Indian would have held plebiscite as per un resolution. But you must know what happened or atleast what Pakistan had to do for it to happen.

As you mentioned in your first post you had an standstill agreement with Kashmir king ,then why would pakistani forces attack Kashmir and try to take it. You guys don't understand or cannot build a narrative.

No, let him speak his filth. He can be answered using sound arguments and reasoning.


No Pakistani government claims Hyderabad state.
You just defeated yourself and tacitly accepted that Jammu and Kashmir state is a Muslim majority. It is under Indian occupation.

Jammu and Kashmir under Indian occupation is 67% Muslim majority.

Junagadh went to India because the majority was Hindu. Same with Hyderabad state.

Are you out of your mind, atleast know what Pakistan claimed.
Junagardh and Hyderabad more than 80% Hindu.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Thats the point you guys don't understand what you talk. On kashmir you claim it because of higher Muslim population but on Junagadh and Hyderabad, you still want to claim inspire of higher Hindu population.And you want rest of the world to take you seriously.

Even intellectuals like Australian lawyer Sir. Owen Dixon said use a plebiscite to determine the destiny of the land according to the partition plans.

So these are not half-truths as you have lied it to be.

Even China supports Pakistan's position on the Kashmir Dispute according to the United Nations.

And let me remind you, it was India that went to the United Nations first, not Pakistan.

Indian would have held plebiscite as per un resolution. But you must know what happened or atleast what Pakistan had to do for it to happen.

As you mentioned in your first post you had an standstill agreement with Kashmir king ,then why would pakistani forces attack Kashmir and try to take it. You guys don't understand or cannot build a narrative.


Are you out of your mind, atleast know what Pakistan claimed.
Junagardh and Hyderabad more than 80% Hindu.

No Pakistani government claimed Hyderabad state, you moron.

Indian would have held plebiscite as per un resolution. But you must know what happened or atleast what Pakistan had to do for it to happen.

As you mentioned in your first post you had an standstill agreement with Kashmir king ,then why would pakistani forces attack Kashmir and try to take it. You guys don't understand or cannot build a narrative.


Are you out of your mind, atleast know what Pakistan claimed.
Junagardh and Hyderabad more than 80% Hindu.

You moron, in the end Pakistan gave up claims on Junagadh and Hyderabad because they were Hindu majority and because they were geographically separate from Pakistan.

Kashmir is geographically connected to Pakistan and is a Muslim majority region.

Stop regurgitating nonsense.

 

[Binod]

Even intellectuals like Australian lawyer Sir. Owen Dixon said use a plebiscite to determine the destiny of the land according to the partition plans.

So these are not half-truths as you have lied it to be.

Even China supports Pakistan's position on the Kashmir Dispute according to the United Nations.

And let me remind you, it was India that went to the United Nations first, not Pakistan.

I know history and who took it to UN. As per UN resolution Pakistan is the aggressor.
Let's go step by step,why would Pakistan attack Kashmir and take in by force when you signed standstill agreement.

 

[Zarvan]

Kashmir will never be free without war. We have to fight for Kashmir to settle the score of 1971. It should be our declared national policy or let say national goal. And if wars goes against us then use every nuke in your arsenals. Victory or nothing survives in South Asia.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Indian would have held plebiscite as per un resolution. But you must know what happened or atleast what Pakistan had to do for it to happen.

As you mentioned in your first post you had an standstill agreement with Kashmir king ,then why would pakistani forces attack Kashmir and try to take it. You guys don't understand or cannot build a narrative.


Are you out of your mind, atleast know what Pakistan claimed.
Junagardh and Hyderabad more than 80% Hindu.

The Kashmir King should not have wasted time, and hence people became suspicious of him. It showed the Kashmir king was being dishonest.

By the way being independent was not part of the partition plans. Otherwise Hyderabad state would have been independent in India.

I know history and who took it to UN. As per UN resolution Pakistan is the aggressor.
Let's go step by step,why would Pakistan attack Kashmir and take in by force when you signed standstill agreement.

Don't confuse the people.

We need to know how the events unfolded.

1. First the Maharajah of Kashmir signed a Standstill Agreement with Pakistan and did no communications with India.

2. Then Pakistani tribesmen invaded the Kashmir kingdom because the King was being dishonest about accession.

3. Then India brings in troops to defend the tyranny of the Kashmir king.

There is no Instrument of Accession document to prove that the Maharaja acceded to India, India claims it does not have the document to show to the United Nations.

I know history and who took it to UN. As per UN resolution Pakistan is the aggressor.
Let's go step by step,why would Pakistan attack Kashmir and take in by force when you signed standstill agreement.

Actually you are mistaken about who is the aggressor.

Pakistani irregulars only invaded when it became clear the Maharaja was being dishonest. had Kashmir been a normal province it would have gone to Pakistan.

India just got lucky with the land it stole.

Indian would have held plebiscite as per un resolution. But you must know what happened or atleast what Pakistan had to do for it to happen.

As you mentioned in your first post you had an standstill agreement with Kashmir king ,then why would pakistani forces attack Kashmir and try to take it. You guys don't understand or cannot build a narrative.


Are you out of your mind, atleast know what Pakistan claimed.
Junagardh and Hyderabad more than 80% Hindu.

I repeat there is no Pakistani government, or records of Pakistani government claiming Hyderabad state you moron.

Louis Mountbatten of Burma said princely states should take demographics into consideration before acceding to Pakistan or India.

When the Maharaja of Kashmir vacillated and wanted to be independent (Being independent is not part of the partition plans) it showed he was being dishonest.

 

[Binod]

The Kashmir King should not have wasted time, and hence people became suspicious of him. It showed the Kashmir king was being dishonest.

By the way being independent was not part of the partition plans. Otherwise Hyderabad state would have been independent in India.


Don't confuse the people.

We need to know how the events unfolded.

1. First the Maharajah of Kashmir signed a Standstill Agreement with Pakistan and did no communications with India.

2. Then Pakistani tribesmen invaded the Kashmir kingdom because the King was being dishonest about accession.

3. Then India brings in troops to defend the tyranny of the Kashmir king.

There is no Instrument of Accession document to prove that the Maharaja acceded to India, India claims it does not have the document to show to the United Nations.


Actually you are mistaken about who is the aggressor.

Pakistani irregulars only invaded when it became clear the Maharaja was being dishonest. had Kashmir been a normal province it would have gone to Pakistan.

India just got lucky with the land it stole.

Again intellectual dishonesty ,taking time.

Atleast know when other states were joining the state of pakistan ,you attacked Kashmir in 47 and some did not join pakistan for much later.