What's new

If Russia Wins Aleppo It's the End of American Hegemony in the Middle East

TaiShang

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
27,848
Reaction score
70
Country
China
Location
Taiwan, Province Of China
If Russia Wins Aleppo It's the End of American Hegemony in the Middle East
If Russia Wins Aleppo It's the End of American Hegemony in the Middle East

The real reason US is screeching about 'barrel bombs'

M.K. Bhadrakumar


Aleppo's ancient citadel before the war

Originally appeared at Asia Times

On Monday, Barack Obama administration fulfilled its week-old threat to ‘suspend’ bilateral talks with Russia over Syrian crisis. Are the dogs of war being unleashed?

The US spy planes are spotted ever more frequently in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Black Sea over Russian bases, especially Tartus and Hmeimim in Syria. The thought may seem preposterous but tensions are palpable.

Russia has deployed SA-23 Gladiator anti-missile and anti-aircraft system in Syria, first-ever such deployment outside Russia. The western analysts see it as pre-emptive step to counter any American cruise missile attack. Russia is not taking chances.

The Defence Ministry in Moscow said the deployment is intended “to provide protection for the naval logistics facility in Tartus and the Russian Navy’s task force”.

Moscow factors in that US may use some rebel groups to ensure that Russian “body bags” are sent to Moscow, as threatened explicitly by US state department spokesman John Kirby last week. Moscow suspects American hand in the missile attack on the Russian embassy in Damascus – “Brits and Ukrainians clumsily helped the Americans”, a Russian statement in New York said on Tuesday.

Indeed, passions are running high. There could be several dozen western intelligence operatives trapped with the rebel groups in east Aleppo. This is one thing.

Clearly, the turning point was reached when the US and western allies undertook a fierce air attack on the Syrian army base at Deir Ezzor lasting an hour and killing 62 government troops. The US explanation of that being an accident lost credibility, since within an hour of the air strike, extremist groups of al-Qaeda followed up with ground attack as if acting in tandem.

Trust has consequently broken down. The Russians are convinced that the US was never really interested in separating the ‘moderate’ groups from extremists despite repeated promises, because Washington sees use for al-Qaeda affiliates, which happen to be the only capable fighting force to push the ‘regime change agenda in Syria.

Put differently, Russians are inclined to agree with what Tehran has been saying all along. Moscow, therefore, switched tack and put its resources behind the Syrian operations to capture the strategic city of Aleppo. The military campaign is within sight of victory.

That is, unless there is a US intervention in the coming days to tilt the military balance in favour of extremist groups that are trapped in the eastern districts of Aleppo with supply lines for reinforcements cut.

The main thrust of the multi-pronged attack by government forces, backed by crack Hezbollah units and Shi’ite militia, is from the southeast of Aleppo with massive Russian aerial bombardment and a brigade-strong Russian contingent positioning itself reportedly in the rear to reinforce the main attack if need arises.

The Russians also control Castello Road leading to the north toward Turkish border, which was the last remaining supplying route for the extremist rebel pockets in east Aleppo.

With no prospect of getting reinforcements, facing relentless air and ground attacks from the north and south, the rebels are staring at a hopeless battle of attrition.

The point is, with the fall of Aleppo, Syrian war becomes de facto a residual military operation to purge the al-Qaeda affiliate Jubhat al-Nusra from Idlib province as well, which means regime forces would secure control over the entire populous regions of Syria, all main cities and entire Mediterranean coast. In a nutshell, Syrian war ends with President Bashar al-Assad ensconced in power.

The specter of ‘total victory’ for Assad haunts Washington. It explains the string of vituperative statements against Moscow, betraying a high level of frustration.

Theoretically, Obama can order missile attacks on the victorious Syrian government forces. But that will be like pouring oil on fire. On Saturday, Russian Defense Ministry warned Pentagon that any US military intervention to remove Assad would result in “terrible tectonic shifts” across the region.

The threat was left vaguely suspended in the air. But on Sunday, the powerful advisor on foreign affairs to Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ali Akbar Velayati, was pretty much blunt, warning Washington that any direct US intervention would be a “suicidal action” and will only turn out to be “their (American) third military defeat in the region after Afghanistan and Iraq, and it will be a stronger defeat”.

However, if Obama decides against the war option, three other reasons can also be attributed. One, Washington’s equations with Ankara and Riyadh are hugely uncertain at the moment and both regional allies are key partners in Syria.

The US-Turkish ties remain volatile not only due to the attempted coup in July but also because of the US’ tie-up with Kurds and growing Turkish suspicions regarding its intentions in Syria.

On the other hand, Riyadh is mulling over the best way of drinking from the chalice of poison that the US Congress prepared for King Salman in the form of the ‘sue-the-Saudis-for-the-9/11’ bill.

Two, President Recep Erdogan is unlikely to gamble another confrontation with Russia when Turkey’s legitimate interests in Syria can be secured by working in tandem with President Vladimir Putin at the negotiating table.

In fact, Putin is visiting Ankara shortly. Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif also visited Turkey last week.

Third, most important, Obama is unlikely to lead his country into the vicious war zone without any clear-cut objective to realize when the curtain is coming down on his presidency. In the current state of play, Assad stands between the West and the deluge.

But what rankles is that Russian victory in Syria marks the end of western hegemony over the Middle East, and historians are bound to single it out as the defining foreign-policy legacy of Obama’s presidency.

Certainly, Russians cannot but be sensing this. Moscow may offer at some point a face-saving exit strategy – but only after the capture of Aleppo.

After all, there is really no hurry between now and January to salvage Russia-US ties. The tragic paradigm is best evoked by quoting Omar Khayyam’s lines – ‘The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ, Moves on”.

The debris of Russia’s ties with the US lies all around and no one knows where to begin a clean-up. Things have got physical when Obama called Kremlin leadership as “barbarous” in regard of Aleppo.

On Monday, Moscow explained its decision to suspend cooperation in getting rid of excess plutonium (that could be used to make nuclear weapons) as due to “the emergence of a threat to strategic stability and as a result of unfriendly actions” by the US.

Yet, it was also a decision that Moscow could have deferred until Obama left office. After all, it meant suspending the sole Russian-American nuclear security initiative carrying Obama’s imprimatur.

Moscow couldn’t resist debunking a Nobel who promised to ensure “America’s commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons,” but actually enhanced the role of nuclear weapons in US security strategy.

***

US and its proxy little sectarian terror regimes of the Gulf and Levant (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and Turkey, in the lead) need to be stopped in Syria. Otherwise, it is for sure that the Dark Age has set in the Middle East at least for a century.

@Serpentine
 
What? Uh no, that's nowhere near true. Syria was never a part of US sphere of influence, and there is very little reason to believe that even if Russia takes Aleppo, hell even the entirety of Syria, that US influence would somehow be affected all that much; If anything, US influence in the region was probably increase, as regional nations would look to the US for protection, and the US would see to counter balance such an event.

To me, it seems as if the US is preparing for a far larger intervention, not to say they'll send in ground troops (may be special forces at most), but they'll certainly won't tolerate Assad coming back to power, and Russia taking Syria without a challenge.
 
What? Uh no, that's nowhere near true. Syria was never a part of US sphere of influence, and there is very little reason to believe that even if Russia takes Aleppo, hell even the entirety of Syria, that US influence would somehow be affected all that much; If anything, US influence in the region was probably increase, as regional nations would look to the US for protection, and the US would see to counter balance such an event.

To me, it seems as if the US is preparing for a far larger intervention, not to say they'll send in ground troops (may be special forces at most), but they'll certainly won't tolerate Assad coming back to power, and Russia taking Syria without a challenge.

Thank you, that's exactly my opinion. Besides, I believe that after the US election Putin (and Assad) will be confronted by a new and more radical US approach in Syria. That's why Putin repeatedly warned the USA last week.
 
What? Uh no, that's nowhere near true. Syria was never a part of US sphere of influence, and there is very little reason to believe that even if Russia takes Aleppo, hell even the entirety of Syria, that US influence would somehow be affected all that much; If anything, US influence in the region was probably increase, as regional nations would look to the US for protection, and the US would see to counter balance such an event.

To me, it seems as if the US is preparing for a far larger intervention, not to say they'll send in ground troops (may be special forces at most), but they'll certainly won't tolerate Assad coming back to power, and Russia taking Syria without a challenge.

America ie Israel has not been having it their way in Syria so in that repect we've already lost hegemony. We've tried to remove Assad for 5 years now and he's still there.

All of America's activities in the ME are at the behest of Israel. So it's really Israeli hegemony we are talking about here. There's nothing we are doing in the ME that benefits us strictly.
 
US won in Syria by creating a big Kurdistan.

Cs7wGKxUEAAgs7h.jpg


Russia and Iran lost because their only ally in ME is destroyed and turned into a Somalia.

We've tried to remove Assad for 5 years now and he's still there.
You are dumb like hell. America actually saved Assad by stopping weapon supplies to rebels.

All of America's activities in the ME are at the behest of Israel. So it's really Israeli hegemony we are talking about here. There's nothing we are doing in the ME that benefits us strictly.
There is no any Israeli hegemony in ME. But destruction of Syria by Russia and Iran benefits Israel actually.
 
US won in Syria by creating a big Kurdistan.

Cs7wGKxUEAAgs7h.jpg

I wonder how Turkey would react if it is really materialized.

***

But I agree that retaining Syrian unity at the end of the proxy war would mean little in terms of US presence because its relationship is rather multi-leveled.

I would really worry about US presence only if a big fat black cat (a 9/11 related big compensation) stood between US and Saudi Arabia.

Since the 1940s, US ideological and monetary presence is based on Saudi-supported petro-dollar and Islamist ideology export. If the US punishes Saudi Arabia for the minor consequence of Saudi ideology as it appeared on 9. 11. 2001, that would, at least, have a symbolic impact.
 
What? Uh no, that's nowhere near true. Syria was never a part of US sphere of influence, and there is very little reason to believe that even if Russia takes Aleppo, hell even the entirety of Syria, that US influence would somehow be affected all that much; If anything, US influence in the region was probably increase, as regional nations would look to the US for protection, and the US would see to counter balance such an event.

To me, it seems as if the US is preparing for a far larger intervention, not to say they'll send in ground troops (may be special forces at most), but they'll certainly won't tolerate Assad coming back to power, and Russia taking Syria without a challenge.

The US ain't preparing for a far larger intervention but mostly to keep the status quo ...
 
That's funny. Syria is a barren land in the eyes of the USA. It means nothing to them. What did they do when Hafez and Soviet made historic deal to set up a base in their coast? Nothing.

USA already have the Middle East and its surrounding under their hegemony. They have Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and the entire Arabian Peninsula, Central Asia, Afghanistan, the Horns of Africa and Pakistan.

I fell for a clickbait/sensationalism.
 
If Russia Wins Aleppo It's the End of American Hegemony in the Middle East
If Russia Wins Aleppo It's the End of American Hegemony in the Middle East.

The real reason US is screeching about 'barrel bombs'

M.K. Bhadrakumar


Aleppo's ancient citadel before the war

Originally appeared at Asia Times

On Monday, Barack Obama administration fulfilled its week-old threat to ‘suspend’ bilateral talks with Russia over Syrian crisis. Are the dogs of war being unleashed?

The US spy planes are spotted ever more frequently in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Black Sea over Russian bases, especially Tartus and Hmeimim in Syria. The thought may seem preposterous but tensions are palpable.

Russia has deployed SA-23 Gladiator anti-missile and anti-aircraft system in Syria, first-ever such deployment outside Russia. The western analysts see it as pre-emptive step to counter any American cruise missile attack. Russia is not taking chances.

The Defence Ministry in Moscow said the deployment is intended “to provide protection for the naval logistics facility in Tartus and the Russian Navy’s task force”.

Moscow factors in that US may use some rebel groups to ensure that Russian “body bags” are sent to Moscow, as threatened explicitly by US state department spokesman John Kirby last week. Moscow suspects American hand in the missile attack on the Russian embassy in Damascus – “Brits and Ukrainians clumsily helped the Americans”, a Russian statement in New York said on Tuesday.

Indeed, passions are running high. There could be several dozen western intelligence operatives trapped with the rebel groups in east Aleppo. This is one thing.

Clearly, the turning point was reached when the US and western allies undertook a fierce air attack on the Syrian army base at Deir Ezzor lasting an hour and killing 62 government troops. The US explanation of that being an accident lost credibility, since within an hour of the air strike, extremist groups of al-Qaeda followed up with ground attack as if acting in tandem.

Trust has consequently broken down. The Russians are convinced that the US was never really interested in separating the ‘moderate’ groups from extremists despite repeated promises, because Washington sees use for al-Qaeda affiliates, which happen to be the only capable fighting force to push the ‘regime change agenda in Syria.

Put differently, Russians are inclined to agree with what Tehran has been saying all along. Moscow, therefore, switched tack and put its resources behind the Syrian operations to capture the strategic city of Aleppo. The military campaign is within sight of victory.

That is, unless there is a US intervention in the coming days to tilt the military balance in favour of extremist groups that are trapped in the eastern districts of Aleppo with supply lines for reinforcements cut.

The main thrust of the multi-pronged attack by government forces, backed by crack Hezbollah units and Shi’ite militia, is from the southeast of Aleppo with massive Russian aerial bombardment and a brigade-strong Russian contingent positioning itself reportedly in the rear to reinforce the main attack if need arises.

The Russians also control Castello Road leading to the north toward Turkish border, which was the last remaining supplying route for the extremist rebel pockets in east Aleppo.

With no prospect of getting reinforcements, facing relentless air and ground attacks from the north and south, the rebels are staring at a hopeless battle of attrition.

The point is, with the fall of Aleppo, Syrian war becomes de facto a residual military operation to purge the al-Qaeda affiliate Jubhat al-Nusra from Idlib province as well, which means regime forces would secure control over the entire populous regions of Syria, all main cities and entire Mediterranean coast. In a nutshell, Syrian war ends with President Bashar al-Assad ensconced in power.

The specter of ‘total victory’ for Assad haunts Washington. It explains the string of vituperative statements against Moscow, betraying a high level of frustration.

Theoretically, Obama can order missile attacks on the victorious Syrian government forces. But that will be like pouring oil on fire. On Saturday, Russian Defense Ministry warned Pentagon that any US military intervention to remove Assad would result in “terrible tectonic shifts” across the region.

The threat was left vaguely suspended in the air. But on Sunday, the powerful advisor on foreign affairs to Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ali Akbar Velayati, was pretty much blunt, warning Washington that any direct US intervention would be a “suicidal action” and will only turn out to be “their (American) third military defeat in the region after Afghanistan and Iraq, and it will be a stronger defeat”.

However, if Obama decides against the war option, three other reasons can also be attributed. One, Washington’s equations with Ankara and Riyadh are hugely uncertain at the moment and both regional allies are key partners in Syria.

The US-Turkish ties remain volatile not only due to the attempted coup in July but also because of the US’ tie-up with Kurds and growing Turkish suspicions regarding its intentions in Syria.

On the other hand, Riyadh is mulling over the best way of drinking from the chalice of poison that the US Congress prepared for King Salman in the form of the ‘sue-the-Saudis-for-the-9/11’ bill.

Two, President Recep Erdogan is unlikely to gamble another confrontation with Russia when Turkey’s legitimate interests in Syria can be secured by working in tandem with President Vladimir Putin at the negotiating table.

In fact, Putin is visiting Ankara shortly. Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif also visited Turkey last week.

Third, most important, Obama is unlikely to lead his country into the vicious war zone without any clear-cut objective to realize when the curtain is coming down on his presidency. In the current state of play, Assad stands between the West and the deluge.

But what rankles is that Russian victory in Syria marks the end of western hegemony over the Middle East, and historians are bound to single it out as the defining foreign-policy legacy of Obama’s presidency.

Certainly, Russians cannot but be sensing this. Moscow may offer at some point a face-saving exit strategy – but only after the capture of Aleppo.

After all, there is really no hurry between now and January to salvage Russia-US ties. The tragic paradigm is best evoked by quoting Omar Khayyam’s lines – ‘The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ, Moves on”.

The debris of Russia’s ties with the US lies all around and no one knows where to begin a clean-up. Things have got physical when Obama called Kremlin leadership as “barbarous” in regard of Aleppo.

On Monday, Moscow explained its decision to suspend cooperation in getting rid of excess plutonium (that could be used to make nuclear weapons) as due to “the emergence of a threat to strategic stability and as a result of unfriendly actions” by the US.

Yet, it was also a decision that Moscow could have deferred until Obama left office. After all, it meant suspending the sole Russian-American nuclear security initiative carrying Obama’s imprimatur.

Moscow couldn’t resist debunking a Nobel who promised to ensure “America’s commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons,” but actually enhanced the role of nuclear weapons in US security strategy.

***

US and its proxy little sectarian terror regimes of the Gulf and Levant (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and Turkey, in the lead) need to be stopped in Syria. Otherwise, it is for sure that the Dark Age has set in the Middle East at least for a century.

@Serpentine

Taishang, I am kind of disappointed that you actually posted such an article and even agreed with it. Lol since I usually respect your posts eventhough I don't always agree with it at times(especially seeing you are obviously very anti western ), but I still like reading the way you analyse events and express them meticulously. However on this article I am rathe disappointed. You see things in black and white alot which is never the case when it comes to middle eastern geo political games.

For one, who told you the U.S or any western Power for that matter ever had any significant influence/presence in Syria? (Except maybe France a tiny little bit ,since they are their former colonial master) Lol We all had almost none to be honest . If anything western powers influence and presence in Syria have only increased substantially since Assad began his brutal crackdown on its own people leading to a civil war and bringing in foreign and regional powers to intervene to secure their own interests.
So NO MATTER THE FINAL OUTCOME IN SYRIA, WE HAVE BASICALLY NOTHING MUCH TO LOSE, IFANYTHiNG WE WILL GAIN SOMETHIG NO MATTER THE RESULT, Since we will all have a say in Syria's future one way or another, which we didn't in the past. The biggest loser here is Russia first and to a lesser extent its regional partner Iran .

For Russia it's more damaging, since it's only remaining ally in a Middle-East long dominated by U.S/U K and French influence
is now a semi failed state a la Somalia(if not worse. Lol), Syria provided Russia with its only naval base and military presence in the region , however the instability and Chaos in the country has put all these in jeopardy. Make no mistake though, Syria WILL NEVER BE THE SYRIA WE KNEW BEFORE THE WAR(united country ruled by Assassin iron fist). There are simply too many groups and players now with strong presence , so the will have to be some autonomy for these regions or even independence for some . Since it's virtually impossiblefor Assad to take over the whole country.T hats if he himself can first survive .lol
For Iran , it will mean it's only real loyal ally in the region has also been severely weakened to a failed state status. Thus complicating it's involvement and extension of its influence in other regions in the Middle-East. Even more so, Iran has lost all the little respect it had in the region when it intervened in Syria by Assads Side with its shias militias. The little support and sympathy they gained by using propaganda and radical rhetoric against Israel has all being lost once they got invoved in Syria and help Assad in his killings. Even more so for terror groups like Hezbollah who also lost all the support they had in the region(gained by fighting against so called "Israeli imperialism" .lol) before their involvement in the civil war.

Finally, you forget that it's ASSAD who is primarily to blame for the current situation his country is now in, since if he had listen to his people's uprising like Ben Ali of Tunisia did and fled or cede power , we wouldn't be here today. The fact that he tried to cling on to power by all means necessary and even ordered his military to shoot protesters protesting against his rule only made things worse. Foreign powers started getting involved wayyyyyy after when the peaceful uprisings had already turned into an armed conflict as ASSAD troops who didn't want to kill their own citizens defected and took up arms against THEIR former colleagues/brothers in arms. So he as the president and ruler of his country is the main one to blame. I am surprised some of his sympathisers don't even acknowledge(or pretend not to. Lol ) this basic obvious fact. Lol

Moreover, you are wrong in one thing, the U.S,U.K,France have never really given any substantial military support to Syrian rebels fighting Assad. Our support have mainly been diplomatic in nature. Do you think that if we really armed Syrian opposition FOR REAL Assads airforce/military will still be intact?LMAO. :lol:. We havent ever supplied them with sophisticated weapons needed to bring down Assads warplanes and fighting machines. We could have easilly done that if we really wanted you know , seems the game here is a long prolonged conflict of attrition. Let Russia and Iran keep pouring in their little resources they have left. Lol REMEMBER ONE FACT : WE HAVE NEVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS CONFLICT STRIKE ASSAD'S FORCES(until recently which we did by mistake and admitted our mistake). Meanwhile we have striked Al nusra and other Islamic group fighting Assad every single day. Go Ask yourself why(keep your bias aside though).:)

To to say the U.S/West or even Israel have lost in this conflict is the joke of the century . :rofl:. Its the total opposite. They all gained something they never had before. :agree: No matter the outcome.
So this your article is PURE BULLSHIT, I'm sorry to say that.

What? Uh no, that's nowhere near true. Syria was never a part of US sphere of influence, and there is very little reason to believe that even if Russia takes Aleppo, hell even the entirety of Syria, that US influence would somehow be affected all that much; If anything, US influence in the region was probably increase, as regional nations would look to the US for protection, and the US would see to counter balance such an event.

To me, it seems as if the US is preparing for a far larger intervention, not to say they'll send in ground troops (may be special forces at most), but they'll certainly won't tolerate Assad coming back to power, and Russia taking Syria without a challenge.

Agree completely (seems your title as Think tank Analyst is well deserved :enjoy: ), except for the "preparing for a larger intervention part". :)
 
Last edited:
Taishang, I am kind of disappointed that you actually posted such an article and even agreed with it. Lol since I usually respect your posts eventhough I don't always agree with it at times(especially seeing you are obviously very anti western ), but I still like reading the way you analyse events and express them meticulously. However on this article I am rathe disappointed. You see things in black and white alot which is never the case when it comes to middle eastern geo political games.

Actually, as my next post above indicated, I am not entirely in agreement with the article. That's probably because I am trained as critical realist, which allows me to look at social phenomena both historical and entirely pragmatist window.

I do not hold love-hate sentimentalism on issues related to geopolitics or geoeconomics. Nonetheless, interest pursuit is a form of love-hate relationship, right?

I do believe that the KSA is the pivotal country in US presence in the Middle East. I am telling this in a complete understanding of the British retreat from the region in the 1940s in favor of the US, when the KSA played the major role as baton carrier.

For one, who told you the U.S or any western Power for that matter ever had any significant influence/presence in Syria? (Except maybe France a tiny little bit ,since they are their former colonial master) Lol We all had almost none to be honest . If anything western powers influence and presence in Syria have only increased substantially since Assad began his brutal crackdown on its own people leading to a civil war and bringing in foreign and regional powers to intervene to secure their own interests.

You are being simplistic, perhaps.

To give its fair share to the article in the OP, the author does not really argue that the US or other influential European countries have strong influence on Syria. Pre Arab Spring, in fact, Western leadership had a favorable view of the country's secular model.

The OP's focus is, as I understand, more on the significance of the Syrian war for the entire ME geopolitics, which is directly related to US presence. As it happens, the author argues that the reestablishment of Syria under President Assad as more or less unified nation would strike a fatal blow on the US standing.

This, I also, do not agree with. But, it may hurt the US by hurting its regional proxies such as Qatar, KSA and Turkey. Assad non-removal would certainly shift the regional politics considerably.

For Russia it's more damaging, since it's only remaining ally in a Middle-East long dominated by U.S/U K and French influence
is now a semi failed state a la Somalia(if not worse. Lol), Syria provided Russia with its only naval base and military presence in the region , however the instability and Chaos in the country has put all these in jeopardy. Make no mistake though, Syria WILL NEVER BE THE SYRIA WE KNEW BEFORE THE WAR(united country ruled by Assassin iron fist). There are simply too many groups and players now with strong presence , so the will have to be some autonomy for these regions or even independence for some . Since it's virtually impossiblefor Assad to take over the whole country.T hats if he himself can first survive .lol

Your choice of words (Assassin, etc.) reflects emotional bias, which is fine. If he is such a bad person for bombing his own citizens, what would your own former elected leader be placed morally (reflecting, also, your national moral integrity)? Nevertheless, I agree, Syria will never be the same. It might be a better place, though, but we have to wait to see what will happen in the coming weeks as the proxy civil war reaches the breaking point.

For Iran , it will mean it's only real loyal ally in the region has also been severely weakened to a failed state status. Thus complicating it's involvement and extension of its influence in other regions in the Middle-East. Even more so, Iran has lost all the little respect it had in the region when it intervened in Syria by Assads Side with its shias militias. The little support and sympathy they gained by using propaganda and radical rhetoric against Israel has all being lost once they got invoved in Syria and help Assad in his killings. Even more so for terror groups like Hezbollah who also lost all the support they had in the region(gained by fighting against so called "Israeli imperialism" .lol) before their involvement in the civil war.

I see some Western (surprisingly) liberal circles employing the same language with Saudi-Salafi radicals when it comes to Iran and the Shia. But, using the words such as "killings, brutalities, assassination, radicalism etc. will not increase the effect of your arguments any more than counter arguments to your country's/camp's/ideology's "killings, brutalities, assassinations etc.

I can debate you if you clear off the empty emotional-ideological jargon.

Finally, you forget that it's ASSAD who is primarily to blame for the current situation his country is now in, since if he had listen to his people's uprising like Ben Ali of Tunisia did and fled or cede power , we wouldn't be here today. The fact that he tried to cling on to power by all means necessary and even ordered his military to shoot protesters protesting against his rule only made things worse. Foreign powers started getting involved wayyyyyy after when the peaceful uprisings had already turned into an armed conflict as ASSAD troops who didn't want to kill their own citizens defected and took up arms against THEIR former colleagues/brothers in arms. So he as the president and ruler of his country is the main one to blame. I am surprised some of his sympathisers don't even acknowledge(or pretend not to. Lol ) this basic obvious fact. Lol

On this, we are in disagreement and will never come to similar terms. For me, simply put, Assad is the legitimate leader of his country even though his ruling might not be the best form of governance. Who said Middle East sans Syria is a rose garden for good governance (not democracy because democracy can easily be tyrannical)? I will not even mention the fact that majority of Syrians support their government which explains 1. why the government is still able to hold on, 2. why outside powers have to export militant Jihadists from Britain, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Lebanon, Russia and others.

Moreover, you are wrong in one thing, the U.S,U.K,France have never really given any substantial military support to Syrian rebels fighting Assad. Our support have mainly been diplomatic in nature. Do you think that if we really armed Syrian opposition FOR REAL Assads airforce/military will still be intact?LMAO. :lol:. We havent ever supplied them with sophisticated weapons needed to bring down Assads warplanes and fighting machines. We could have easilly done that if we really wanted you know , seems the game here is a long prolonged conflict of attrition. Let Russia and Iran keep pouring in their little resources they have left. Lol REMEMBER ONE FACT : WE HAVE NEVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS CONFLICT STRIKE ASSAD'S FORCES(until recently which we did by mistake and admitted our mistake). Meanwhile we have striked Al nusra and other Islamic group fighting Assad every single day. Go Ask yourself why(keep your bias aside though).:)

You are talking like a radical Sunni cleric. I do not agree with you as I never agree with radical Sunni Jihadists. Western powers have provided substantial support although they did not "directly" target Syrian government (except US accidental killings and Israel's heart-warming love affair with former Nusra).

Currently, US-led coalition has been supporting terrorist groups (mostly foreign) rebranded as moderates.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom