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IAF to trial American F-16, Swedish Gripen for 120-jet Make in India project to replace MiGs

Of course it is subjective, but the fact that the opinion is coming from an F-16 expert working for
the company making the F-16 makes it a bit credible.
Read this: http://carnegieendowment.org/files/Decoding_Indias_MMRCA_Decision.pdf

Somehow, it seems like the Indian Air Force has bought enough Su-30MKI to allow it to talk then, LOL.

Exactly why would the capacity of an American product line matter when it will not be producing the fighter?
The fighter will be produced in India.

Why do You think Boeing is asking SAAB for help with the T-X project?

The estimated cost of developing the Gripen E is 2B$.
The estimated cost of developing the F-35 is 50B$.
Why is it better to not source components from abroad?
If India is looking forward to manufacture these aircraft domestically, then this changes the situation a bit. However, lets say that India chooses Gripen-E for domestic manufacturing, it would still have to source some parts from the US because Sweden does not produces all components of its aircraft locally. In case of American, no hassles in procuring parts from other states. Anyhow, up to Indians to decide what they want.

My rant is simple: Talk less and do more. If you get my drift. ;)

F-35 does not belongs in this discussion; it is a different beast and this program involves production of 3 distinct aircraft under F-35 label with futuristic features. F-35 is also exports-oriented project whereas F-22 Raptor is not for sale.

Americans have a well-established aeronautical Industrial base; they are not reliant on other states to produce any kind of aircraft. Projects like F-35 and T-X do not imply reliance on other states for producing aircraft since they tend to be exports-oriented projects.
 
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Read this: http://carnegieendowment.org/files/Decoding_Indias_MMRCA_Decision.pdf


If India is looking forward to manufacture these aircraft at home, then this changes the situation a bit. However, lets say that India chooses Gripen-E for domestic manufacturing, it would still have to source some parts from the US because Sweden does not produces all components of its aircraft locally.

F-35 does not belongs in this discussion; it is a different beast and the program involved production of 3 distinct models under F-35 label.

Production in India is a pre-requisite for selection.
India is already buying GE engines for its "indigenous" aircrafts,
and the US has given a go-ahead to sell engines if India selects Gripen.

A more interesting issue is how India will treat Leonardo, which is not popular in India at the moment
(read "In the freezer"), because at least the IRST & IFF will be made by them.
 
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Nice read!
Thanks for the share.
If you read first few paras, there is a line " India Settled for an Aircraft and Not Relationship"
I guess that sums up MMRCA saga. Airforce did all the hardwork of selecting a platform to suit its requirements and not diplomatic ones. Once commercial aspects were cleared, it learnt bitterly that it has little control over issues that stray into areas like cost implications, balancing acts in international fora etc. & that makes one feel sorry for IAF. They played the game honestly, only to learn that goalposts have shifted.
 
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Gripen E VS F 16 block 70 which one is best choice for Indian Airforce?

Source : https://www.asiadefence.com/


Now once again here we are where we have to chose between some more new variants of the 4Gs. The new tender floated to locally manufacture single engine fighter aircraft have fighters for it.

Both are considered “top of the line” fourth generation fighter aircraft. Both have exceptional radars, cueing systems, engines, and technology. Who would win this fictional dogfight between the new mighty Viper “V” and the superb J-39E Gripen? Let’s dig a little deeper.

First the similarities. And I’m not going to split hairs here. I could care less if one aircraft carries a few more bullets, or can go 200 nm farther, or 5,000 feet higher.

I care about the stuff that the fighter pilot cares about…the “meat” of the aircraft, and what it can really do, on a real day with real weapons and fuel on board. Not some artificial test results published on the internet under certain and exact circumstances.

How do the systems and capabilities of the machine help the pilot?

Both fighters can do Mach 2, fly about 50,000 feet MSL (Mean Sea Level), and both are fantastic multi-role, single-seat fighters. Each has long range and heat-seeking missiles, as well as an array of dumb and smart bombs, and air-to-surface missiles at their disposal. Both have fly-by-wire controls and can in-flight refuel. They each have an AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar, and fuel loads are similar.

Both have solid HUDs and HMCS (Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems) and can carry external targeting and laser pods. Both also can haul Link-16 datalink, ROVER (for secure video communication with ground parties), and satellite communication capabilities, and both are also touted as being able to super cruise, with limited air-to-air weapons on board. Impressive no doubt.

The tender has attracted two wonderful aircrafts throwing a whole new competition for Indians. And of course a whole new debate topic for Aviation geeks. The F 16 Block 70 which is dubbed to be the most advanced variant of F 16 and The Saab Gripen NG/ E.

Here we are bringing to you the full spectrum of EW capabilities, Weapons and Other warfare capabilities plus potential weaknesses. So that we can make a proper choice as to which one could be better.

Block 70 F-16

This came up as a Surprise as nobody thought Lockheed Martin would make any further advancement to the system after making Block 60 for the Arabs. The F 16 IN Super Viper a contender in MMRCA competition is considered to be quite close to Block 70. But still Block 70 packs much masala in it to be an attractive choice for the EW dominated battlefield of the future and today. The strategic advantage as what being talked in defence circles is that Last Production line of F 16 will be shifted in India.

f.16-1-300x225.jpg


The Block 70 is the most advanced of all F-16s. There are 27 countries in the world who fly these planes, with the latest to join in two months time will be Romania.

The Block 70 F-16 will have the 5th generation fighter radar capabilities, some of which are greater detection and tracking ranges, multiple target track, high resolution synthetic aperture radar, auto target classification and cueing, advanced growth modes.

Lockheed martin has been in talks with the Indian Govt since April to bring the Texas production line to India, and 2017 is the timeframe they are looking at. About jobs being impacted back home in the US, Howard said that the F-35 fighter jet facility will be ramped up, meaning the F-16 workers will be absorbed there.

Radar and Sensor Suite :~

It is equipped with AN/ APG 83 AESA radar. Described as Agile beam it can perform Air to Air and Air to Ground Search and Track simultaneously. The noise reduction features of this one has made its range improved to almost 70 miles almost 84 km for engagement. The image quality in air to ground mode is described as imagery-class. Just the same that is acquired from satellites. They can be acquired from long distances for air to ground targets and using its synthetic aperture radar mode pilots can locate and recognise the ground targets. Prioritise them and engage.
The new MMC modules of it’s computers are said to be 30 % faster than previous ones. Which allows sensor data fusion from the EW sensors for better situational awareness , here notably the data transfer network is quite faster than previous systems like Link 16. It is also equipped with Off boresight aiming sensor which allows pilot to sense and target something out of his field of view.

It also features a pilot friendly automatic ground collision avoidance system. Which continuously tracks pilot’s awareness with respect to decreasing altitude. It makes pilot aware and turns up the aircraft automatically if it goes too close to ground. Because while manoeuvring the aircraft to follow an enemy aircraft. The enemy may try to run wmaway by staying low and outmatching F 16 whike taking ups and downs. The F 16 may then be hitting a Mountain or be directed towards the ground then this system becomes ‘Tactically Important’.

Reasons for India to select F16

1 Single Supply Chain. More availability of parts. Faster Availability in wartime.
2 Battle Proven platform and sold to many NATO countries and various countries worldwide. So India can sell F 16 spare parts.
3 One of the most advanced Variant of F 16. With almost Medium Weight Category like capabilties.
4 Strategic advantage of grounding F 16s of Pakistan Air Force.

Reasons for not selecting F 16

1 High Operating and Life cycle costs as compared to Gripen.
2 Less Sensor packed than Gripen.
3 Adversary Air Forces know F 16 better so they can formulate Strategies to counter it.
4 No sepecific advantage to Other Indian Indegeneous products like LCA.

Seeing the requirement of IAF , the track record of F 16. This could be a better choice. Many people feel that Usage of F 119 engine could be a deal breaker but maintenance of that is quite expensive. It is unconfirmed yet. Even the USAF finds it hectic to maintain it. The F 16 has been used in wargames all around the world and therefore it wouldn’t be a formidable challenge for IAF’s enemies to develop counter strategies. The 16000m service cieling allows it to fly over himalayas comfortably.

Saab JAS 39 Gripen E.

The Gripen makers since the days of MMRCA competition are quite desperate to make sale to IAF. So much that we all know they even gave an advertisement on a Bus Stop in New Delhi. Be it Draken Viggen or Gripen the Swedes have always impressed the world with thier designs. Now Gripen is something truely solid and comes with an proven combat service. The Canarded Delta Wing design is better in manoeuvrability as we all know. But what the Gripen E offers here is a Contemporary Electronic Warfare abilities that is what truly matters in Next Gen. warfare. The price is high but that is because Gripen has got so much to offer.

gripen-e1-300x198.jpg


Gripen NG is the most advanced multi-role fighter in the world. Gripen is, by design, a true multi-role fighter aircraft, capable of performing an extensive range of air-to-air, air-to-surface and reconnaissance missions under all conditions in any environment.

Saab has also set out a comprehensive plan within India’s Make in India initiative, which will include transfer of state-of-the-art technology; setting up of an aerospace eco-system in India, including a manufacturing facility; creation of a local supplier base; employment of a well-trained Indian workforce in engineering and manufacturing.

READ HAL must be modernised, if the LCA Tejas is to be saved
Gripen offers operational dominance and flexibility with superior mission survivability. Air-to-air superiority is guaranteed with METEOR, AMRAAM, IRIS-T, AIM-9 missile capability and supercruise. Air-to-surface capability is assured through the use of the latest generation precision weapons and targeting sensors. Gripen’s superior situation awareness is ensured through an AESA radar, IRST passive sensor, HMD, cutting-edge avionics, next generation data processing and a state-of-the-art cockpit.

Sensor Suite :~

This one is quite impressive amongst all the 4Gs.

Selex Galileo-Raven ES-05 AESA. This radar offers a 200° Coverage owing to its swashplate technique it sees where others are blind. This becomes quite important while on a CAS mission.

IRST (Infra-Red Seach and Track) passive sensor system / Skyward G-infrared active product by Selex-ES is synchronized (acquisition data transmission between devices) and also provides the ability to hang missiles reconciliation to fight.

Gripen E has a new electronic architecture (Net Centric Warfare – NCW). Judged ten times faster than its competitors. The new central system PPLI (Participant Precise Location and Identification) and connects all the slopes internal and external sensors (RAVEN, IRST, EW39, ATFLIR pod) and then offer the best responses to threats. This is right now best thing in Gripen as per me and after F 35 it is the only fighter to be able of that.

The Gripen E is driven by General Electric’s (GE) F414G turbofan engine rated at 22,000lb (98kN). It features a new high-pressure turbine and a new six-stage, high-pressure compressor.

“The aircraft’s engine and design enable it to fly at supersonic speed without using an afterburner.”

The Gripen E features a digital cockpit with three large multi-functional displays (MFD) including a few 3D screens. The cockpit also features a hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) which provides superior situational awareness for the pilot.

Reasons for India to select Gripen.

1 Gripen has lowest per unit life cycle and operating costs almost USD 4000.
2 Gripen is the most sensor packed and smartest fighter amongst the Fourth Generation Fighter Aircraft.
3 Gripen makers. The Saab has offered to help India manufacture LCA Tejas and Offer Naval Version of Gripen to Indian Navy IAC and IAC 2.

Reasons for not selecting Gripen.

1 Gripen uses American Engine so it will be difficult to manage supply chain.
2 Gripen’s per unit manufacturing cost is higher than that of LM F 16 blk 70.
3 Relatively less battle proven than F 16.

Conclusion :~

So these were the awesomest 4Gs we have got as a choice for replacing the MiG 21s of Indian air force. Seeing the depleting squadron strength it is critical that the decision be taken fast. The F 16 is experienced, comes with a strategic advantage and is versatile. It is relatively cheaper. While the Gripen is costlier is tactically more dominant and has got much greater amount of smart functions and sensors but have the lowest per unit operating cost.

Source : Here
 
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If India has a problem getting the GE F414 engine, the Tejas Mk 2 project is in real danger.
I don't see that coming.
 
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Gripen should be the choice. Unless India is looking at F35 in the future.
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017/06/19/business/19reuters-airshow-paris-india.html?_r=1


Lockheed Signs Pact With Tata to Make F-16 Planes in India


By REUTERSJUNE 19, 2017, 7:33 A.M. E.D.T.

The-F-16-in-its-Block-70-Avatar.jpg

PARIS — Lockheed Martin signed an agreement with India's Tata Advanced Systems on Monday to produce F-16 fighter planes in India, pressing ahead with a plan to shift its Fort Worth, Texas plant to win billions of dollars worth of order from the Indian military.

India's air force needs hundreds of aircraft to replace its Soviet-era fleet, but Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has said foreign suppliers would have to make the planes in India with a local partner to help build a domestic industrial base and cut outright imports.

But Modi's Make-in-India drive runs the risk of conflicting with U.S. President Donald Trump's America First campaign under which he has been pressing for companies to invest in the United States and create jobs instead of setting up factories abroad.

In announcing their agreement at the Paris Airshow, Lockheed and Tata said moving the production base to India would still retain jobs in the United States.

"F-16 production in India supports thousands of Lockheed Martin and F-16 supplier jobs in the U.S., creates new manufacturing jobs in India, and positions Indian industry at the center of the most extensive fighter aircraft supply ecosystem in the world," a joint statement by the firms said.

Sweden's Saab is the other contender to supply the Indian Air Force, offering to make its Gripen fighter in India. It has not yet announced a local partner for the plane which it has pitched as a modern alternative to the F-16s.

The announcement comes days before Modi travels to Washington for a first meeting with Trump, scheduled for June. 26. India and the United States have built a close defense relationship in recent years with Washington emerging as among the top three arms suppliers to India, along with Russia and Israel.

India will also have the chance to export the F-16 that is flown by air forces around the world, the joint statement said. Some 3,200 of these planes are being flown by 26 countries and the model that is being offered to India will be Block 70, the most modern of all the F-16s.

"This unprecedented F-16 production partnership between the world’s largest defense contractor and India’s premier industrial house provides India the opportunity to produce, operate and export F-16 Block 70 aircraft, the newest and most advanced version of the world’s most successful, combat-proven multi-role fighter," the statement said.

Tata is already building airframe components for the C-130 military transport aircraft.

India has not opened formal bidding for the jet order, which is expected to be anything from 100 planes to 250.

(Additional reporting by eporting by Bangalore Newsroom; Writing by Sanjeev Miglani; Editing by Mark Potter)
 
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And after all this you Af still not consider this plane worthy of inducting in large numbers and going for another tender. this shows that what your teja is capable of.
guess what IAF has already orderred 40 MK1 and 83 MK1a while IN has already orderred 40 IN has just rejected LCA for aircraft carrier use till heavy and troublesome landing gear issue is reslved and you are dreaming its rejected
burn.jpg

:haha:

many made my fun when a year ago i said F16 Blk 70/72 will come to india but now its coming :sarcastic:

anyway india will not just take TATA & LM made F16s but for filling up numbers also have EX ISAF & EX USAF MLUd to version "V" level some 5 full squads of F16s also and maybe even quatree M2K9s aswell ... just keep watching :coffee:

There is no GaN radar for the F-16.
SAAB is quite a lot ahead of the rest on this technology.
ok ok i belave you (Y) :haha:
 
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many made my fun when a year ago i said F16 Blk 70/72 will come to india but now its coming :sarcastic:

anyway india will not just take TATA & LM made F16s but for filling up numbers also have EX ISAF & EX USAF MLUd to version "V" level some 5 full squads of F16s also and maybe even quatree M2K9s aswell ... just keep watching :coffee:

They are right to make fun of You until You show any credible sources
that India has made up their mind.

FACT: There will be an election coming, and the plan says selection
after the election, so whatever the current administration thinks
may be overridden by a new administration.
 
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