IAF Mirage 2000 Upgrade Slowed By Weapons

[sudhir007]

Livefist: IAF Mirage 2000 Upgrade Slowed By Weapons

It has emerged that India's $2.4-billion proposal to upgrade 51 IAF Dassault Mirage 2000H/TH fighters -- widely expected to be cleared by the government's apex approval body this month -- hasn't come up because the attached contract for weapons/armaments with MBDA hasn't been cleared yet by India's Ministry of Finance. India's apex Cabinet Committee on Security will not consider the primary upgrade contract separate from the constituent weapon contract, obviously. It is not clear at this stage if the armament contract remains with the Ministry of Finance on account of normal procedural delays or more specific price concerns. Will update this post.

 

[luckyyy]

this upgrade will never happen ...

 

[tvsram1992]

We need cost effective best air superiority/multirole aircrafts like mig35 to counter the numerical superiority of Jf-17.

 

[T90TankGuy]

We need cost effective best air superiority/multirole aircrafts like mig35 to counter the numerical superiority of Jf-17.

what numerical superiority are you talking about? and the mig 35 by all accounts failed to impress the IAF for the onset of flight trials..

 

[Zabaniyah]

It is better to buy new ones.

I don't understand why they spending so much money to upgrade those old Mirages.

what numerical superiority are you talking about? and the mig 35 by all accounts failed to impress the IAF for the onset of flight trials..

The MIG-35 is a capable jet.

 

[Kinetic]

Now mantri ji and babus can take another five years and get some rest.

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

We need cost effective best air superiority/multirole aircrafts like mig35 to counter the numerical superiority of Jf-17.

no u need too amp up LCA or work on accuiring more air domanance AC .mig 35 was a bust in MMRCA

 

[tvsram1992]

what numerical superiority are you talking about? and the mig 35 by all accounts failed to impress the IAF for the onset of flight trials..

When we have Mig29's in our AF then u say that they are capable and very very efficient after the upgrades. But u say Mig35 is not good. It has very very increased capabilities like 3d tvc, aesa etc... Mig35 can even compete with J20 and it ll definetly lock on Jf-17 and J-10b.
Dont speak by just knowing a word." Mig35 engine failed to impress IAF". When it comes to other case like our Indigenous weapons like LCA mk1 , u say they are extraordinory but IAF dont like it. Look im not criticising LCA .

 

[sancho]

When we have Mig29's in our AF then u say that they are capable and very very efficient after the upgrades. But u say Mig35 is not good. It has very very increased capabilities like 3d tvc, aesa etc... Mig35 can even compete with J20 and it ll definetly lock on Jf-17 and J-10b.
Dont speak by just knowing a word." Mig35 engine failed to impress IAF". When it comes to other case like our Indigenous weapons like LCA mk1 , u say they are extraordinory but IAF dont like it. Look im not criticising LCA .

Which are not ready developed and the simple fact that not even Russia wants it, but keep inducting new Flankers should tell you something. As jbgt90 correctly pointed out, there is no numerical superiorty of JF 17, even with the F16s PAF don't match the more than 100 Mig 29 and Mirage 2000s today. That's why these upgrades of older fighters are a good increase of capability to stay ahead of them and a bridge to induct completely new and way more capable LCA MK2 and MMRCAs in the mid term.
Buying new fighters instead of these upgrades will turn out more costly, because it's not only the unit cost that you have to take to account here and takes more time and that is a big mistake when you already has shrinking squadron numbers!

 

[tvsram1992]

1. Russia doesnt need Mig35 for simple reason
It has shorter range and it wont be useful for long range operations.
But we have enemies under us . So they will be effective.
2.Soon PAF and PLAAF will acquire new 4 th gen aircrafts and they lack air superiority but will have numerical superiority.
3.Parallel induction makes rapid increase in squadrons that can make enemy rethink. Ya it may be new platform/aircraft . So what? unless pilot dont has the efficiency.
4.There are claims that J20 may not be superior to F22/PAK FA/FGFA of course as well as EFT/Mig35/Mki for sure in air superiority.
5.You only say its nothing but upgraded version but its highly ++ upgraded that now coming migs and aesa + 3d tvc . It has been tested same like rafale and eft has not tested yet, same with mirage now.
6.Even upgrades take time and remember these mirages can stay for more that 10 years with out up-gradation till we get all new crafts.
Current operational a2a missile cant engage mig flying at mach 2.4 speed.

 

[luckyyy]

It is better to buy new ones.

I don't understand why they spending so much money to upgrade those old Mirages.
The MIG-35 is a capable jet.

MIG-35 only got negative marking in 14 techiNcals points out of which 9 are related to engine alone , that's sumed up how good it performed in over 600 other techincal perameters of all the capabilities which IAF looking for in MMRCA..

 

[sancho]

1. Russia doesnt need Mig35 for simple reason

Oh please, as if Russian air force don't need to replace older light and medium class fighters and still they don't want the Mig 35!

3.Parallel induction makes rapid increase in squadrons that can make enemy rethink. Ya it may be new platform/aircraft . So what? unless pilot dont has the efficiency.

That's not possible. If you can produce 100 fighters a year, you can't double the number by splitting it into 2 types, you just get the same number but 50 of each type! So when we already have to produce MKIs, LCAs and MMRCAs (EF, or Rafale) at the same time, our production and induction capabities are already at the limit and IAF don't want to add another type, so even if we buy a new fighter instead of upgrading Mirage, it will be one of these and not the Mig.

4.There are claims that J20 may not be superior to F22/PAK FA/FGFA of course as well as EFT/Mig35/Mki for sure in air superiority.

In your last post you claimed Mig 35 can take on J20. It won't be ready anytime soon and PAF won't get it anyway, so not an issue for this topic.

5.You only say its nothing but upgraded version but its highly ++ upgraded that now coming migs and aesa + 3d tvc . It has been tested same like rafale and eft has not tested yet, same with mirage now.

Demo versions has been tested, but they are still underdevelopment and not ready for serial production. The Russians even admitted that the radar will be delayed and when these capabilities would be ready, IN would get them for their Mig 29Ks, but they aren't and use the Zhuk ME and the RD 33MK without TVC instead.

6.Even upgrades take time and remember these mirages can stay for more that 10 years with out up-gradation till we get all new crafts.
Current operational a2a missile cant engage mig flying at mach 2.4 speed.

And will reduce IAF capability by far, because they stay at 3.5 gen capability, while you just stated that our opponents are inducting more 4th gen fighters. And without a major overhaul the fighters will suffer from quality problems sooner, or later, so your idea is not only high risk for Indias security, but also for our pilots.

 

[tvsram1992]

Oh please, as if Russian air force don't need to replace older light and medium class fighters and still they don't want the Mig 35!

The reason i gave was very much clear. They had long range heavy fighters Su35. Also remember France sacrificed Mirage for Rafale.

That's not possible. If you can produce 100 fighters a year, you can't double the number by splitting it into 2 types, you just get the same number but 50 of each type! So when we already have to produce MKIs, LCAs and MMRCAs (EF, or Rafale) at the same time, our production and induction capabities are already at the limit and IAF don't want to add another type, so even if we buy a new fighter instead of upgrading Mirage, it will be one of these and not the Mig.

Parallel production doesnt mean all at our country. We have only HAL. US had LM,Boeing,Northtrop ,.... Russia has Mikoyan,Irkut,Sukhoi though they are now UAC. The production rate of sukhoi doesnt depend on Mikoyan and LM doesnt effect Boeing. Like wise one will be produced at HAL parallely other at
Mikoyan or Irkut same like our mki's.

In your last post you claimed Mig 35 can take on J20. It won't be ready anytime soon and PAF won't get it anyway, so not an issue for this topic.

Iam saying these 4th gen air superiority fighters can take on next gen planes of chinese. We ll have more than enough power.

Demo versions has been tested, but they are still underdevelopment and not ready for serial production. The Russians even admitted that the radar will be delayed and when these capabilities would be ready, IN would get them for their Mig 29Ks, but they aren't and use the Zhuk ME and the RD 33MK without TVC instead.

Mirages, Rafales, EFT has also their aesa radars not there/delayed. Why cant we integrate in the case of Mig35.

And will reduce IAF capability by far, because they stay at 3.5 gen capability, while you just stated that our opponents are inducting more 4th gen fighters. And without a major overhaul the fighters will suffer from quality problems sooner, or later, so your idea is not only high risk for Indias security, but also for our pilots.

Now already we are experiencing the situation. I mean we are at risk. Once think practically. What is the use of Mig21 against 4th gen fighters and SAM's.

Now i dont want to drag the discussion, Its enough for the above explaination.
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We had Israeli offer also for Mirage , whats the additional benefits with french, other than using the point "upgrade by the makers".

 

[shaktiman2010]

Dump this crappy over-expensive outdated upgrade and buy extra Su-30MKI/Mig-35.

MICA is totally useless and outdated. One of most over-hyped, overpriced missile.

 

[shaktiman2010]

And divert remaining money to ASTRA and invite Israel as partner.