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IAF jittery as faulty design grounds HAL jet trainer

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Over a decade after the first flight of the indigenously developed intermediate jet trainer (IJT) Sitara, experts have concluded that the aircraft's tail will have to be redesigned to address serious stall and spin issues that are threatening to derail the programme.

The development has come as a major headache for the Indian Air Force (IAF), which urgently requires the trainer jets for the second stage training of pilots because its existing fleet of ageing Kiran jets is on a final life extension.

Sources said aviation major BAE Systems, which was hired as a design consultant, has recommended that the IJT's tail design should be reworked. BAE was roped in after state-run Bangalore-headquartered Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the maker of the Sitara, was unable to find a solution to the stall and spin problems.

Redesign

The redesign will involve extensive work that will considerably delay the induction of the indigenous jets. The revised deadline for the much-delayed project was December 2015 but with the additional work, sources said it was unclear when the aircraft would be ready for induction in the Indian Air Force.

"The aircraft's stall speed is too high and this is unacceptable as the trainer jet will be flown by rookies," said a source. Sources said the IJT stalls at 208 km an hour, while the speed should ideally be around 170 km an hour or below.

The aircraft has been in development since 1999 and the project has been marred by delays and crashes. The government will soon have to take a call on the programme, sources said. The Indian Air Force has already committed its full support to the development of the IJT but further delays have forced a rethink. The government had sought information from international companies on intermediate trainer jets as an alternate measure, sources said.

The Intermediate Jet Trainer will remain unfit for flying till the clearing of the stall and spin issues, which are important aspects of flying training. Sources said, at the moment, the Intermediate Trainer Jet aircraft's nose does not come down when it stalls as should have been the case. "Such an aircraft is beyond rookies to handle," said a source.

The Indian Air Force is using the Kirans for intermediate training but the jet is outdated.

For basic training, the cadets fly the Swiss-made Pilatus PC7, which is an advanced trainer. "In the second stage, instead of going ahead, the trainee pilots are being exposed to an obsolete aircraft," said a source.

In the third stage, the cadets are trained in the Hawk advanced jet trainer. The first prototype of the Intermediate Jet Trainer flew in 2003. Earlier to this, former defence minister A.K. Antony informed Parliament that the jet trainer was likely to be operational by the end of 2014 but it is now clear that this timeframe will not be met.

The Sitara is a conventional jet trainer with low swept wings, tandem cockpit and small air intakes on either side of its fuselage. On 28 April 2011, a prototype Sitara crashed while testing in Tamil Nadu. Both crew ejected safely.



Read more at: IAF jittery as faulty design grounds HAL jet trainer : North, News - India Today
 
Happens even with a small power module. Not a suprise if it happens with aircraft....
 
Over a decade after the first flight of the indigenously developed intermediate jet trainer (IJT) Sitara, experts have concluded that the aircraft's tail will have to be redesigned to address serious stall and spin issues that are threatening to derail the programme.

The development has come as a major headache for the Indian Air Force (IAF), which urgently requires the trainer jets for the second stage training of pilots because its existing fleet of ageing Kiran jets is on a final life extension.

Sources said aviation major BAE Systems, which was hired as a design consultant, has recommended that the IJT's tail design should be reworked. BAE was roped in after state-run Bangalore-headquartered Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the maker of the Sitara, was unable to find a solution to the stall and spin problems.

Redesign

The redesign will involve extensive work that will considerably delay the induction of the indigenous jets. The revised deadline for the much-delayed project was December 2015 but with the additional work, sources said it was unclear when the aircraft would be ready for induction in the Indian Air Force.

"The aircraft's stall speed is too high and this is unacceptable as the trainer jet will be flown by rookies," said a source. Sources said the IJT stalls at 208 km an hour, while the speed should ideally be around 170 km an hour or below.

The aircraft has been in development since 1999 and the project has been marred by delays and crashes. The government will soon have to take a call on the programme, sources said. The Indian Air Force has already committed its full support to the development of the IJT but further delays have forced a rethink. The government had sought information from international companies on intermediate trainer jets as an alternate measure, sources said.

The Intermediate Jet Trainer will remain unfit for flying till the clearing of the stall and spin issues, which are important aspects of flying training. Sources said, at the moment, the Intermediate Trainer Jet aircraft's nose does not come down when it stalls as should have been the case. "Such an aircraft is beyond rookies to handle," said a source.

The Indian Air Force is using the Kirans for intermediate training but the jet is outdated.

For basic training, the cadets fly the Swiss-made Pilatus PC7, which is an advanced trainer. "In the second stage, instead of going ahead, the trainee pilots are being exposed to an obsolete aircraft," said a source.

In the third stage, the cadets are trained in the Hawk advanced jet trainer. The first prototype of the Intermediate Jet Trainer flew in 2003. Earlier to this, former defence minister A.K. Antony informed Parliament that the jet trainer was likely to be operational by the end of 2014 but it is now clear that this timeframe will not be met.

The Sitara is a conventional jet trainer with low swept wings, tandem cockpit and small air intakes on either side of its fuselage. On 28 April 2011, a prototype Sitara crashed while testing in Tamil Nadu. Both crew ejected safely.



Read more at: IAF jittery as faulty design grounds HAL jet trainer : North, News - India Today
Technical challenges do come in any product implementation but one thing misleading in the article that Tejas Project is going since 1999 is inaccurate. The Tejas Project started in the early seventies.
 
Technical challenges do come in any product implementation but one thing misleading in the article that Tejas Project is going since 1999 is inaccurate. The Tejas Project started in the early seventies.
No, it didn't. The agency to develop Tejas was itself only founded in the 80s. It was in 1983 that the govt gave the go ahead for developing a fighter. It was in '84 that the ADA was set up. It was in 1986 that funds were first allocated. It was in 1990 that an agreement was arrived at the design (delta wing fighter). It was in 1993 that full scale development work started. First flight was in 2001.
 
@sancho @SpArK @Abingdonboy

Can we use the turbofan engine used to power nirbhay in trainers like HT-36 bcoz if i m not wrong it produces similar thrust (17-20 kn) as the NPO engine?
 
Pakistanis do compare with Afghanistan when Afghans troll in Pak related threads or make fun of Pak. Same here - it was amusing to see a Pakistani make fun of HAL, when his country has not manufzctured as much as HAL has in the past 3 years.

Sure, it's not a great achievement if we compare ourselves with USA or Russiaor China. But to compare with Pak - LOL.

(You would notice that it's your fellwo countryman who barged in and made fun of HAL and invited the inevitable comparison.)

and yet the much touted HAL realizes after all this time that they need to redesign this and redesign that.....seriously, who is working in there? A beaver does a better planning and execution than HAL.
 
I am not an Indian, but this should be considered as a good news because Indian HAL project is completely ingenious, where as our JF-17 is built together with china. Indian project is completely indigenous may be the Russian's help them out but not the way China helped in JF-17 program. India will definitely learn with this Aircraft they should not shelve this program its good for Indian Aviation.
 
China was a JV partner.There wasn't any Russian help in our case.
I know your project is completely indigenous i was just suggesting that Russian might help India if they ask, but the Indian's are thinking of self reliance and self sufficiency through their own research, which will be very good for India in the future.
 
Guys can we keep our discussion to Technical spec's and its failures and remedies, Rather going on personal highs!!
 
I am not an Indian, but this should be considered as a good news because Indian HAL project is completely ingenious, where as our JF-17 is built together with china. Indian project is completely indigenous may be the Russian's help them out but not the way China helped in JF-17 program. India will definitely learn with this Aircraft they should not shelve this program its good for Indian Aviation.

At last, a sane response from a Pakistani. Is that too much to expect?:rolleyes:

India has indegenously designed and built Tejas which, though delayed, is still ours. And our contribution to foreign aircrafts is also quite substantial. The Kirans that fly as IJTs presently were also indegenous. The Maruts of the 60s was indegenous as well. The Dhruvs and Rudras are also indegenous, and are world class in their roles.

It is comical that some of your countrymen think it fit to belittle India on threads like these. We know that we are not as good as we need to be, but at least we are trying.
 
pilates and hawks are doing good actually. lets spend on more flight hours than a failed design. tail is a part of the problems with sitara as far as i recall reading some time back.

its a pity we don't concentrate on trainers enough.
 

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