Huawei releases Atlas 900, The World’s Fastest AI Training Cluster

[GS Zhou]

Huawei releases Atlas 900, the world's fastest AI training cluster today (Sep 18, 2019).

Atlas 900 AI cluster consists of thousands of Huawei Ascend 910 AI processors. It integrates the HCCS, PCIe 4.0, and 100G RoCE high-speed interfaces through Huawei cluster communication library and job scheduling platform. Atlas 900 delivers up to 256–1024 PFLOPS at FP16, equivalent to the computing power of 500,000 PCs. Test results show that Atlas 900 can complete model training based on ResNet-50 within 60 seconds, 15% faster than the second-ranking product.This means faster AI model training with images and speech, more efficient astronomical and oil exploration, weather forecast, and faster time-to-market for autonomous driving.

 

[kankan326]

Now Huawei officially enters AI field. Hongmeng OS+5G+Krin chips+AI. Huawei is too powerful to be defeated by US. On the contrary, google,microsoft and qualtomm need to be careful.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Singularity ...race

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Now Huawei officially enters AI field. Hongmeng OS+5G+Krin chips+AI. Huawei is too powerful to be defeated by US. On the contrary, google,microsoft and qualtomm need to be careful.

Hongmeng OS is not ready for mobile deployment and this was confirmed by Ren Zhengfei himself. They are mostly thinking of just using Android from the open source project without Google Mobile Services.

Kirin Chips use ARM CPUs, and while right now Huawei has the license of latest ARM CPUs and architecture, going forward they won't get new licenses which would be a major problem.
Apart from that EDA tools are used by Huawei to design Kirin, which again, future versions won't be available to Huawei. (The current version is because they purchased the software already)
Similarly, there Kirin Chips require other tech support. It requires fabrication which is only available at TSMC/Samsung. And TSMC/Samsung themselves depend on American companies for lithography equipment and chemicals and materials.

Ascend 910 is an ASIC. It is a chip that implements set models. But it is useless for general purpose research where CPU and GPU are required both of them are completely controlled by American Companies.

 

[kankan326]

Hongmeng OS is not ready for mobile deployment and this was confirmed by Ren Zhengfei himself. They are mostly thinking of just using Android from the open source project without Google Mobile Services.

Kirin Chips use ARM CPUs, and while right now Huawei has the license of latest ARM CPUs and architecture, going forward they won't get new licenses which would be a major problem.
Apart from that EDA tools are used by Huawei to design Kirin, which again, future versions won't be available to Huawei. (The current version is because they purchased the software already)
Similarly, there Kirin Chips require other tech support. It requires fabrication which is only available at TSMC/Samsung. And TSMC/Samsung themselves depend on American companies for lithography equipment and chemicals and materials.

Ascend 910 is an ASIC. It is a chip that implements set models. But it is useless for general purpose research where CPU and GPU are required both of them are completely controlled by American Companies.

Hongmeng OS is ready. The only problem is building a new ecology is costly both on money and time. ASML is not American company. Ascend 910(newest one) uses Huawei self developed Da Vinci structure, not ARM structure. Which will be trend for Huawei.

And don't forget China is the biggest chip market. Losing China means losing whole business regardless how advanced your technology is. Ask TSMC and Samsung who dare to ban Huawei. China's Unreliable Entities is waiting for it.

 

[Kai Liu]

Hongmeng OS is ready. The only problem is building a new ecology is costly both in money and time. ASML is not American company. Ascend 910(newest one) uses Huawei self developed Da Vinci structure, not ARM structure. Which will be trend for Huawei.

And don't forget China is the biggest chip market. Losing China means losing whole business regardless how advanced your technology is. Ask TSMC and Samsung who dare to ban Huawei. China's Unreliable Entities is waiting for it.

Another the World vs China serie from this indian... Like in another thread here:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/camb...als-with-huawei-and-zte.635727/#post-11772594

 

[Paul2]

And who will buy it? The technology development agenda set in Beijing keep being a big question mark.

The single minded pouring of development money on anything with word AI in it seconds the P2P and O2O mass idiocy.

At the same time, factory districts all across China continue being scheduled for demolition and redevelopment with very arguable justifications. Manufacturing is such and industry that is not be coming back, even if Beijing will pour money on it.

By the time Beijing will realise this giant blunder, it will be too late. Factories can be rebuilt, but smart people who got to run them will not return. It took China a decade to cultivate its entrepreneurial class for it to reach the level it was during the 2009-2012 peak, but only a few years to completely alienate the best and brightest of them, by showing them that the stage cares way more about building rows upon rows of empty skyscrapers, malls, hotels and luxury residentials.

Alienating country's entrepreneurs only lead to more of them flying for "good life" abroad, selling and liquidating their businesses that took decades to build. A giant waste of wealth and talent.

 

[Beast]

And who will buy it? The technology development agenda set in Beijing keep being a big question mark.

The single minded pouring of development money on anything with word AI in it seconds the P2P and O2O mass idiocy.

At the same time, factory districts all across China continue being scheduled for demolition and redevelopment with very arguable justifications. Manufacturing is such and industry that is not be coming back, even if Beijing will pour money on it.

By the time Beijing will realise this giant blunder, it will be too late. Factories can be rebuilt, but smart people who got to run them will not return. It took China a decade to cultivate its entrepreneurial class for it to reach the level it was during the 2009-2012 peak, but only a few years to completely alienate the best and brightest of them, by showing them that the stage cares way more about building rows upon rows of empty skyscrapers, malls, hotels and luxury residentials.

Alienating country's entrepreneurs only lead to more of them flying for "good life" abroad, selling and liquidating their businesses that took decades to build. A giant waste of wealth and talent.

Hello? Did you post on the wrong thread?

https://www.verdict.co.uk/huawei-ai-training-atlas-900/

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Hongmeng OS is ready. The only problem is building a new ecology is costly both on money and time. ASML is not American company. Ascend 910(newest one) uses Huawei self developed Da Vinci structure, not ARM structure. Which will be trend for Huawei.

And don't forget China is the biggest chip market. Losing China means losing whole business regardless how advanced your technology is. Ask TSMC and Samsung who dare to ban Huawei. China's Unreliable Entities is waiting for it.

Can I please ask you to try to look at facts, and not what your heart wants the reality to be like?

I will for now state what are the facts. Please ask me for source and citations if you want them.

1. Hongmeng OS is NOT for smartphones. It was built for IoT devices and was not customized for smartphones. It is being developed for smartphones yes, but it is not ready yet.
   What Huawei is looking right now is at using the Android Open Source Project Code and forking it. It needs developer support and an ecosystem even for that because a lot of services given via Google Mobile Services won't be available.
   All of this has been said by Ren Zhengfei himself in two interviews in BBC and Economist.
2. ASML is a Dutch Company that sources a lot of components from Europe and US. In general, ASML will almost certainly follow US sanctions if the US sanctioned something like a SMIC or Tsinghua Unigroup. And not to forget, the dutch are American allies.
3. Da Vinci architecture is an architecture for NPUs or AI-related-ASICs.
   It is not an architecture for CPUs, and hence no comparison to ARM which makes general CPU architectures and ISAs.
4. China is NOT the biggest domestic chip market.
   China consumes around 30-40% of the chips, BUT more than half of that are re-exported around the world as final products. For example, ALL of the chips that Apple buys for its iPhones assembled inside China are counted as Chinese imports, while most of the Apple phones are finally exported through out the world.
   If end consumer market is concerned, then China probably consumes domestically only 12-20% of the world's chips.
5. So, if you escalate trade war further, companies like Apple, HP, Dell, Google who do their assembly in China will shift out of China and go elsewhere. It WILL be slightly more expensive and inefficient elsewhere, but NOT impossible to shift. Already, Samsung has shifted all mobile assembly to Vietnam.
6. China is a big market for TSMC and Samsung, but US sanctions and US support will be an existential issue for them. If they had to choose between US and China, they will choose the US. For example look at ARM. ARM, despite having such a large market in China, had to stop further contacts with Huawei.
7. China's unreliable entities list is just a boast. When is the list going to actually add a major player?

Another the World vs China serie from this indian... Like in another thread here:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/camb...als-with-huawei-and-zte.635727/#post-11772594

No, in that thread I summarized just what issues Huawei was facing around the world.

Also, it is not World vs China in anything.

But it is definitely half of the US vs China right now.

And if China takes any missteps than it can be US + its allies + its partners vs China, which won't be a good outcome for China.

 

[Kai Liu]

No, in that thread I summarized just what issues Huawei was facing around the world.

Also, it is not World vs China in anything.

But it is definitely half of the US vs China right now.

And if China takes any missteps than it can be US + its allies + its partners vs China, which won't be a good outcome for China.

half of the US vs China ??? ARM? SAMSUNG? ... And all these countries you mentioned about:

You are such a pathetic cheerleader... don't even know what you are cheering for...
Just pathetic...

 

[kankan326]

Can I please ask you to try to look at facts, and not what your heart wants the reality to be like?

I will for now state what are the facts. Please ask me for source and citations if you want them.

1. Hongmeng OS is NOT for smartphones. It was built for IoT devices and was not customized for smartphones. It is being developed for smartphones yes, but it is not ready yet.
   What Huawei is looking right now is at using the Android Open Source Project Code and forking it. It needs developer support and an ecosystem even for that because a lot of services given via Google Mobile Services won't be available.
   All of this has been said by Ren Zhengfei himself in two interviews in BBC and Economist.
2. ASML is a Dutch Company that sources a lot of components from Europe and US. In general, ASML will almost certainly follow US sanctions if the US sanctioned something like a SMIC or Tsinghua Unigroup. And not to forget, the dutch are American allies.
3. Da Vinci architecture is an architecture for NPUs or AI-related-ASICs.
   It is not an architecture for CPUs, and hence no comparison to ARM which makes general CPU architectures and ISAs.
4. China is NOT the biggest domestic chip market.
   China consumes around 30-40% of the chips, BUT more than half of that are re-exported around the world as final products. For example, ALL of the chips that Apple buys for its iPhones assembled inside China are counted as Chinese imports, while most of the Apple phones are finally exported through out the world.
   If end consumer market is concerned, then China probably consumes domestically only 12-20% of the world's chips.
5. So, if you escalate trade war further, companies like Apple, HP, Dell, Google who do their assembly in China will shift out of China and go elsewhere. It WILL be slightly more expensive and inefficient elsewhere, but NOT impossible to shift. Already, Samsung has shifted all mobile assembly to Vietnam.
6. China is a big market for TSMC and Samsung, but US sanctions and US support will be an existential issue for them. If they had to choose between US and China, they will choose the US. For example look at ARM. ARM, despite having such a large market in China, had to stop further contacts with Huawei.
7. China's unreliable entities list is just a boast. When is the list going to actually add a major player?

1，Huawei said if necessary the upcoming Mate30 phone(Which is supposed to be sold in Europe today) can use Hongmeng OS. How it is not ready?
2, Why didn't ASML and TSMC follow US ban then? Because the world is much more complicated than you think. Most high tech products contain parts or technologies from many countries. Do you think US is the only one who can cut the production chain? US is just the one who has loudest voice. Rare earth materials are also indispensable in chip industy.
3. I'm not an expert in semiconductor. But I know ARM is replaceable in every field. ARM is very similar to google Android. It is good because many users support it. ARM will face same fate as google Android.
4, China is the biggest domestic chip market. Chips are used in many industries. Not just phones. China is the biggest industrial products market and world factory. China's export to US only shares 15% of its total export. The world has several billion phone users. US only has 0.3 billion population. Why do you think the rest world will follow US if US stops importing China-made products? If Apple moves out of China, the only result is Apple will lose more customers. Those companies who use China-made parts will take advantage of it.
5, It is the same issue as your 4th question. Please notice China is not just assembly factory. It supplies many crucial parts and materials to electronic products. It will not be SLIGHTLY more expensive if completely cutting business with China. The cost will soar.Their products will not be competitive.
6, Check my No2,No4,No5 replies.
7, China has not used Unreliable Entities and rare earth because the time hasn't come yet. Don't fire your bullets to soon. If there is a list of boast, China will be on the bottom of it.

 

[somsak]

There are 2keys, price and quality.US Control the key to quality. China control the key to price. In the future, which side can control both keys FIRST: Win. This is a race.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

half of the US vs China ??? ARM? SAMSUNG? ... And all these countries you mentioned about:
View attachment 580090

You are such a pathetic cheerleader... don't even know what you are cheering for...
Just pathetic...

I am trying to present the facts here, when someone boasted something about Huawei.

Do you have any problems with the actual facts?

Also, this particular piece was about judging the real situation that Huawei finds itself in, right now that is.

1，Huawei said if necessary the upcoming Mate30 phone(Which is supposed to be sold in Europe today) can use Hongmeng OS. How it is not ready?
2, Why didn't ASML and TSMC follow US ban then? Because the world is much more complicated than you think. Most high tech products contain parts or technologies from many countries. Do you think US is the only one who can cut the production chain? US is just the one who has loudest voice. Rare earth materials are also indispensable in chip industy.
3. I'm not an expert in semiconductor. But I know ARM is replaceable in every field. ARM is very similar to google Android. It is good because many users support it. ARM will face same fate as google Android.
4, China is the biggest domestic chip market. Chips are used in many industries. Not just phones. China is the biggest industrial products market and world factory. China's export to US only shares 15% of its total export. The world has several billion phone users. US only has 0.3 billion population. Why do you think the rest world will follow US if US stops importing China-made products? If Apple moves out of China, the only result is Apple will lose more customers. Those companies who use China-made parts will take advantage of it.
5, It is the same issue as your 4th question. Please notice China is not just assembly factory. It supplies many crucial parts and materials to electronic products. It will not be SLIGHTLY more expensive if completely cutting business with China. The cost will soar.Their products will not be competitive.
6, Check my No2,No4,No5 replies.
7, China has not used Unreliable Entities and rare earth because the time hasn't come yet. Don't fire your bullets to soon. If there is a list of boast, China will be on the bottom of it.

1. No one high up in Huawei said that Mate 30 will have Hongmeng. And this can be confirmed easily since Mate 30 is about to launch.
2. ASML doesn't deal directly with Huawei, so the point is moot.
   According to current US laws, companies with more than 15% of US components couldn't supply to sanctioned companies. TSMC doesn't meet this 15% threshhold and hence has continued to work with Huawei. But TSMC actually halt cooperation with Huawei for a while to figure out if it can legally supply Huawei with fabrication services.
   There is talk in the US that they can change the law. If that happens, then TSMC will stop dealing with Huawei.
   Rare Earths is an empty card. Firstly, many countries possess rare earths and the tech to process them is also no big deal. If China were to stop supplying it, they can be replaced within a year. Apart from that rare earths are not easy to track and monitor.
3. Yes, ARM is replaceable. But it is VERY VERY tough. First, a considerable effort will be needed to match ARM's tech and its pace of development. Then you need the whole ecosystem which is EXTREMELY hard to come by.
4. That is a very simplistic scenario that you are talking of. While US may only have 330 million people, those people are very rich, and consume a lot of tech. Also, remember most of the other developed countries are allies of US, which while right now are sitting on the fence, may join US under right circumstances.
   For example, let's say there is a crackdown in HongKong, then I foresee there to be major sanctions.
   Also, most of the chip consuming companies are Americans, and US can single handedly force them to shift their base out of China.
   You overestimate the difficulty that Apple will have to shift its base outside China.
   China today is a smaller market for Apple compared to say US or Europe.
   Also, Apple happens to be the largest semiconductor consumer in the world when one looks at companies.
5. Which crucial component are you talking about?
   China at this time produces nothing in the tech supply chain that can't be produced elsewhere in a year or so.
   Most of the high-tech components are not produced by China, or are produced in China by foreign companies.
6. Again, respectfully, but you are wrong. If TSMC was compelled by US laws, then it will drop Huawei or other companies from its supply chain.
7. When will the time come?
   You have been badgered by tariffs on over 300 billion dollars of exports.
   Your companies are being targeted.
   The fact is that the people who are actually inside Chinese bureaucracy know that this will be a one time fire thing.
   A ban on rare earths will lead to an alternate supply chain emerging within a year.
   And even the ban itself won't cause much issues since rare earths can't be traced.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I am trying to present the facts here, when someone boasted something about Huawei.

Do you have any problems with the actual facts?

Also, this particular piece was about judging the real situation that Huawei finds itself in, right now that is.

1. No one high up in Huawei said that Mate 30 will have Hongmeng. And this can be confirmed easily since Mate 30 is about to launch.
2. ASML doesn't deal directly with Huawei, so the point is moot.
   According to current US laws, companies with more than 15% of US components couldn't supply to sanctioned companies. TSMC doesn't meet this 15% threshhold and hence has continued to work with Huawei. But TSMC actually halt cooperation with Huawei for a while to figure out if it can legally supply Huawei with fabrication services.
   There is talk in the US that they can change the law. If that happens, then TSMC will stop dealing with Huawei.
   Rare Earths is an empty card. Firstly, many countries possess rare earths and the tech to process them is also no big deal. If China were to stop supplying it, they can be replaced within a year. Apart from that rare earths are not easy to track and monitor.
3. Yes, ARM is replaceable. But it is VERY VERY tough. First, a considerable effort will be needed to match ARM's tech and its pace of development. Then you need the whole ecosystem which is EXTREMELY hard to come by.
4. That is a very simplistic scenario that you are talking of. While US may only have 330 million people, those people are very rich, and consume a lot of tech. Also, remember most of the other developed countries are allies of US, which while right now are sitting on the fence, may join US under right circumstances.
   For example, let's say there is a crackdown in HongKong, then I foresee there to be major sanctions.
   Also, most of the chip consuming companies are Americans, and US can single handedly force them to shift their base out of China.
   You overestimate the difficulty that Apple will have to shift its base outside China.
   China today is a smaller market for Apple compared to say US or Europe.
   Also, Apple happens to be the largest semiconductor consumer in the world when one looks at companies.
5. Which crucial component are you talking about?
   China at this time produces nothing in the tech supply chain that can't be produced elsewhere in a year or so.
   Most of the high-tech components are not produced by China, or are produced in China by foreign companies.
6. Again, respectfully, but you are wrong. If TSMC was compelled by US laws, then it will drop Huawei or other companies from its supply chain.
7. When will the time come?
   You have been badgered by tariffs on over 300 billion dollars of exports.
   Your companies are being targeted.
   The fact is that the people who are actually inside Chinese bureaucracy know that this will be a one time fire thing.
   A ban on rare earths will lead to an alternate supply chain emerging within a year.
   And even the ban itself won't cause much issues since rare earths can't be traced.

In other words, India has zero chance to ever catch up.

 

[kankan326]

I am trying to present the facts here, when someone boasted something about Huawei.

Do you have any problems with the actual facts?

Also, this particular piece was about judging the real situation that Huawei finds itself in, right now that is.

1. No one high up in Huawei said that Mate 30 will have Hongmeng. And this can be confirmed easily since Mate 30 is about to launch.
2. ASML doesn't deal directly with Huawei, so the point is moot.
   According to current US laws, companies with more than 15% of US components couldn't supply to sanctioned companies. TSMC doesn't meet this 15% threshhold and hence has continued to work with Huawei. But TSMC actually halt cooperation with Huawei for a while to figure out if it can legally supply Huawei with fabrication services.
   There is talk in the US that they can change the law. If that happens, then TSMC will stop dealing with Huawei.
   Rare Earths is an empty card. Firstly, many countries possess rare earths and the tech to process them is also no big deal. If China were to stop supplying it, they can be replaced within a year. Apart from that rare earths are not easy to track and monitor.
3. Yes, ARM is replaceable. But it is VERY VERY tough. First, a considerable effort will be needed to match ARM's tech and its pace of development. Then you need the whole ecosystem which is EXTREMELY hard to come by.
4. That is a very simplistic scenario that you are talking of. While US may only have 330 million people, those people are very rich, and consume a lot of tech. Also, remember most of the other developed countries are allies of US, which while right now are sitting on the fence, may join US under right circumstances.
   For example, let's say there is a crackdown in HongKong, then I foresee there to be major sanctions.
   Also, most of the chip consuming companies are Americans, and US can single handedly force them to shift their base out of China.
   You overestimate the difficulty that Apple will have to shift its base outside China.
   China today is a smaller market for Apple compared to say US or Europe.
   Also, Apple happens to be the largest semiconductor consumer in the world when one looks at companies.
5. Which crucial component are you talking about?
   China at this time produces nothing in the tech supply chain that can't be produced elsewhere in a year or so.
   Most of the high-tech components are not produced by China, or are produced in China by foreign companies.
6. Again, respectfully, but you are wrong. If TSMC was compelled by US laws, then it will drop Huawei or other companies from its supply chain.
7. When will the time come?
   You have been badgered by tariffs on over 300 billion dollars of exports.
   Your companies are being targeted.
   The fact is that the people who are actually inside Chinese bureaucracy know that this will be a one time fire thing.
   A ban on rare earths will lead to an alternate supply chain emerging within a year.
   And even the ban itself won't cause much issues since rare earths can't be traced.

Huawei said even if google bans its softwares after the 90 days exemption (to middle of September), Huawei will still launch its Mate30. Isn't that enough information for your?
Hk is all about ideology. Trade with China is all about money. Ideology is nothing in front of money. Believe me. No other country will follow US to cut the business relationship with China. European countries can not even follow US on Iran trading ban. China is one hundred times more important than Iran. Germany, Japan, S.Korea, Australia, their biggest business partner is China, not US.

Your logic is all based on China VS world. Which will never happen in the real world. Because US doesn't have the hard power and soft power to influence other countries. It is an impossible task for US.

You overrate US power and underestimate China's bargain chip in the same time. As you said "It is very very hard to replace US technology." And very very easy to replce China's rare earth(within a year as you said) and market(which is actually bigger market than US for both cheap and luxury goods). CIA desperately wanted to steal China's rare earth materials refining technologies and they made plans for 10 years. Unfortunately all CIA spies in China were arrested in 2012. Their plan failed. I guess you never heard this story.