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How will Tianwen-1 communicate without a DSN??

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The USA's Perserverance rover has a 5-satellite network of "western" Mars orbiting satellites, a "Deep Space Network (DSN)", to communicate data to Earth. Is China co-operating with this western DSN to communicate with Tianwen-1? to assist in its landing?

Feb 16, 2021

The Mars Relay Network Connects Us to NASA’s Martian Explorers
Five spacecraft currently in orbit about the Red Planet make up the Mars Relay Network
Five spacecraft currently in orbit about the Red Planet make up the Mars Relay Network to transmit commands from Earth to surface missions and receive science data back from them. Clockwise from top left: NASA’s Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO), Mars Atmospheric and Volatile EvolutioN (MAVEN), Mars Odyssey, and the European Space Agency’s (ESA’s) Mars Express and Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO).
Credits: NASA/JPL-Caltech, ESA

A tightly choreographed dance between NASA’s Deep Space Network and Mars orbiters will keep the agency’s Perseverance in touch with Earth during landing and beyond.
When NASA’s Mars 2020 Perseverance rover touches down with the Ingenuity Mars Helicopter on the Red Planet on Feb. 18, they won’t be alone. From orbit, two robotic buddies will be playing a special role in the event by checking in on the mission’s vital signs from the moment Perseverance enters the atmosphere to long after it makes its first tracks on the Martian surface.
NASA’s Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) and the Mars Atmospheric and Volatile EvolutioN (MAVEN) orbiter are a part of the Mars Relay Network, a constellation of spacecraft that serves as a lifeline to the current surface missions on Mars – NASA’s Curiosity rover and InSight lander.

While some commands and telemetry can be sent directly to and from Earth, for the most part, the huge quantities of science data collected by rovers and landers cannot, because it would take too long. Most data traveling back to Earth must first be sent to the Mars orbiters overhead, which then transmit the data tens of millions of miles through interplanetary space to radio antennas on Earth, including the antennas of NASA’s venerable Deep Space Network (DSN).

“It is a huge endeavor to maintain communications with our spacecraft throughout the solar system, but Mars surface missions take this commitment to another level,” said Bradford Arnold, DSN project manager at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Southern California. “Since Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) arrived in orbit in 1997, a steady stream of orbiters has been added, carrying relay radios and antennas, which provide highly efficient communications between surface landers and Earth. While the choreography of this relay scheme is now somewhat commonplace for assets in place, it is still extremely challenging to coordinate all the communication links for the very brief time during a lander’s arrival.”

This dance will ensure that the world can watch Perseverance’s entry, descent, and landing – a harrowing sequence of events that will begin as the rover’s interplanetary cruise ends.
Deep Space Network
The Deep Space Network has ground stations in Madrid (Spain), Goldstone (Southern California), and Canberra (Australia). Pictured here, Madrid’s radio antennas will take the lead in receiving telemetry from the Mars Relay Network during Perseverance’s entry, descent and landing.
Credits: NASA/JPL-Caltech

Over the Horizon
As Perseverance enters the Martian atmosphere inside its protective aeroshell, the rover will switch between several of its onboard antennas to stay in contact with Earth. Some of these antennas use powerful X-band transmissions that can send small amounts of data directly to the DSN. Others use ultra high frequencies (or UHF) to communicate with MRO and MAVEN.
Managed by JPL for NASA’s Space Communications and Navigation program (SCaN), the DSN consists of several parabolic radio antennas at ground stations in Southern California, near Madrid, Spain, and outside Canberra, Australia. This configuration allows mission controllers to communicate with spacecraft throughout the solar system at all times throughout Earth’s daily rotation. During Perseverance’s landing, Madrid’s antennas will be trained on Mars, taking the lead when receiving data. The Goldstone complex near Barstow, California, will also be listening in as a backup.
Since the landing of NASA’s Mars Exploration Rovers Spirit and Opportunity in 2004, science data has been routinely relayed via the Mars orbiters to the DSN, beginning with MGS and then NASA’s veteran Odyssey orbiter, which has been circling Mars since 2001.

Because the final two minutes of Perseverance’s descent and landing will be mostly beyond Mars’ horizon from Earth’s perspective, “direct-to-Earth” X-band communications will be impossible, and the rover will communicate with Earth solely via MRO and MAVEN when it lands.

In orbit since 2006, MRO was designed as a science mission and to act as a communications relay for landed surface missions. But it received an upgrade to prepare for Perseverance’s landing.
“In the past year, the software of the MRO spacecraft and its UHF radio have been updated to allow the near-immediate return of data collected during EDL. MRO will capture the telemetry transmitted by Perseverance and use its 3-meter [10-foot] dish to transmit it immediately to Earth,” said Roy Gladden, manager of the Mars Relay Network at JPL. “We call this a ‘bent pipe’, which allows us to get word from Perseverance even though Mars is blocking our view from Earth.”

First Word From Jezero
As MRO relays Perseverance’s landing in near-real-time, engineers in mission control hope to confirm landing – and receive the first image – soon after 12:55 p.m. PST (3:55 p.m. EST). Because of the distance the signal has to travel from Mars to Earth, the spacecraft will have landed (known as “spacecraft event time”) 11 minutes and 22 seconds earlier.
Later, at about 4:27 p.m. PST (7:27 p.m. EST), Odyssey will fly over the landing site and communicate with the rover to confirm its health. The next relay session after that will be at about 6:36 p.m. PST (9:36 p.m. EST) by ESA’s (the European Space Agency’s) Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO), which will also check in on Perseverance’s health and relay any images the rover has transmitted from the landing site.
In addition, MAVEN will capture the entire landing with a data-rich broad spectrum recording, and will send the information back to Earth several hours after landing. This data could be used to fill in any telemetry (engineering data) from the rover during EDL that was missed by MRO during the initial relay, and provide other measurements of the event.
This buddy system helps ensure that little data is lost during Perseverance’s historic landing in Jezero Crater while also confirming the health of the rover and its precise location.


Science Operations
Of course, communications don’t stop after landing. That’s when the complicated task of sending commands to Perseverance and receiving the rover’s huge science data output will begin.
During its mission, the rover will have all of the orbiters in the Mars Relay Network for support – including NASA’s MRO, MAVEN, Odyssey, and ESA’s TGO, which has been playing a key role in the network for the past few years. Even ESA’s Mars Express orbiter will be available for emergency communications should the need arise. While the NASA orbiters communicate exclusively with the DSN, the ESA orbiters also communicate via the European Space Tracking network and ground stations located in Russia.

Although the Mars Relay Network has expanded to include more spacecraft and more international partners, with every new surface mission comes added complexity when scheduling the relay sessions for each orbiter flyover.
“Curiosity and InSight are near enough to each other on Mars that they are almost always visible by the orbiters at the same time when they fly over. Perseverance will land far enough away that it can’t simultaneously be seen by MRO, TGO, and Odyssey, but sometimes MAVEN, which has a larger orbit, will be able to see all three vehicles at the same time,” added Gladden. “Since we use the same set of frequencies when communicating with all three of them, we have to carefully schedule when each orbiter talks to each lander. We’ve gotten good at this over the last 18 years as rovers and landers have come and gone, including collaborating with ESA, and we’re excited to see the Mars Relay Network set new throughput records as it returns Perseverance’s huge data sets.”

Ultimately, this communications endeavor connecting Earth and Mars will enable us to see high-resolution images (and hear the first sounds) captured by Perseverance, and scientists will be able to further our knowledge about the Red Planet’s ancient geology and fascinating astrobiological potential.
More About Perseverance
A key objective of Perseverance’s mission on Mars is astrobiology, including the search for signs of ancient microbial life. The rover will characterize the planet’s geology and past climate, pave the way for human exploration of the Red Planet, and be the first mission to collect and cache Martian rock and regolith.
Subsequent missions, currently under consideration by NASA in cooperation with ESA, would send spacecraft to Mars to collect these sealed samples from the surface and return them to Earth for in-depth analysis.
The Mars 2020 mission is part of a larger NASA initiative that includes missions to the Moon as a way to prepare for human exploration of the Red Planet. Charged with returning astronauts to the Moon by 2024, NASA will establish a sustained human presence on and around the Moon by 2028 through NASA’s Artemis lunar exploration plans.
JPL, which is managed for NASA by Caltech in Pasadena, California, built and manages operations of the Perseverance rover.
For more about Perseverance:
For more information about NASA's Mars missions:

More About DSN
The Deep Space Network is managed by JPL for NASA’s Space Communications and Navigation (SCaN), which is located at NASA’s headquarters within the Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate.

More About the Mars Relay Network
The Mars Relay Network is part of the Mars Exploration Program, which is managed at JPL on behalf of NASA’s Planetary Science Division within its Science Mission Directorate.

Ian J. O’Neill
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
818-354-2649
ian.j.oneill@jpl.nasa.gov
 
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I guess they will do it without it or just use American help lol , but wish em luck for their Tianwen 1 mission
 
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Another nonsense thread. Then how did the China mars orbiter insert itself into mars orbit? By magic?

Obviously when there is delay of transmission for critical split second decision. The decision is done by the AI of the orbiter, lander and rover on the spot. It all depend on the sensor, computer processor and software of the creator.

It is already mention by the mars designer and therefore 7mins of terror when landing on mars.

Even the lunar lander of China is done in this way.

So much of American media try to discredit China mars mission. Let me ask you a simple question. May I know the engine of the rocket for sending perseverance to mars is using which engine? A Russian or american one?

Is rocket engine critical for accomplish your deep space exploration program? I guess without Russian engine. Perseverance mission will never on schedule to mars. And so as so many NASA mars mission.

American need to give credit to Russian for giving the critical assist in their mission.

NASA pass 20 years mars mission is never a pure american effort. It is a joint mission between Russian and American.

If China rover successful landed on Mars, it will be the first truly independent mars soft landing missions of rovers ever conduct independently by a country
 
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Isnt that convenient whenever Americans use, depend on, copy, steal or buy out European tech and services Europans always magically turn into "Westerners" so since Americans are "Westerners" too its basically Americas own tech and America depends on no one. 😂
 
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Isnt that convenient whenever Americans use, depend on, copy, steal or buy out European tech and services Europans always magically turn into "Westerners" so since Americans are "Westerners" too its basically Americas own tech and America depends on no one. 😂
Their Atlas V rocket is even using a Russian RD-180 engine to send their Mars rover to mars. As america has no equivalent of that to support such mission. So much of so called American effort. :enjoy:
 
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"Successful space travel often means pooling resources, and at ESA we are happy to support the new Martian mission with our Estrack network of antennas as well as with our Mars Express spacecraft, currently in orbit at the Red Planet," ESA's Beatriz Arias told Space.com.


ESA's Kourou ground station will catch signals from the spacecraft as it separates from the launcher after liftoff, providing information on the probe's distance and movements and enabling communications.


After liftoff and until Tianwen-1 enters Martian orbit, ESA's New Norcia (Australia) and Cebreros (Spain) stations will make a total of eight communication linkups with the spacecraft to support a highly precise navigation/trajectory determination technique known as Delta-DOR (short for "Delta-Differential One-way Range").


Once at the Red Planet, the Mars Express orbiter will provide data relay support, acting as a go-between, alongside the Chinese orbiter, for the data gathered by China's rover on the Martian surface and ground stations on Earth, ESA officials have said. However, this is backup only, as China's own orbiter will provide the prime relay service.

 
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Another nonsense thread. Then how did the China mars orbiter insert itself into mars orbit? By magic?

If China rover successful landed on Mars, it will be the first truly independent mars soft landing missions of rovers ever conduct independently by a country
LOL! It's a fair and balanced thread...."truly independent? In your dreams. Truly stolen .
 
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Their Atlas V rocket is even using a Russian RD-180 engine to send their Mars rover to mars. As america has no equivalent of that to support such mission. So much of so called American effort. :enjoy:

The RD 180 is an awesome, reliable cheap engine - it is one of the best engines ever made by man. The Raptor and the Vulcan recently surpassed the iconic RD-180 the Chinese have yet to best the RD-180.
The RD 180s are so good we got addicted to it, but no more; they are banned from 2022.

Probably explains why the Russians are knocking on China's door. Hope you make good copies of the RD-180 and other priced Russian IP in the bargain.

Good luck!
 
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LOL! It's a fair and balanced thread...."truly independent? In your dreams. Truly stolen .
LOL.. Your Atlas V rocket use crucial Russia RD-180 engine. We China not as useless as you as we use Chinese YF-100 engine. Let me, if without Russia RD-180 engine, can it be successfully completed in 2021?

American beg Russian very hard to get that engine. :enjoy:
The RD 180 is an awesome, reliable cheap engine - it is one of the best engines ever made by man. The Raptor and the Vulcan recently surpassed the iconic RD-180 the Chinese have yet to best the RD-180.
The RD 180s are so good we got addicted to it, but no more; they are banned from 2022.

Probably explains why the Russians are knocking on China's door. Hope you make good copies of the RD-180 and other priced Russian IP in the bargain.

Good luck!

LOL... We dont need RD-180, We use YF-100 Chinese indigenous engine and use different configuration to get a payload even greater than Russian proton and Angara Rocket.

 
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LOL.. Your Atlas V rocket use crucial Russia RD-180 engine. We China not as useless as you as we use Chinese YF-100 engine. Let me, if without Russia RD-180 engine, can it be successfully completed in 2021?

American beg Russian very hard to get that engine. :enjoy:


LOL... We dont need RD-180, We use YF-100 Chinese indigenous engine and use different configuration to get a payload even greater than Russian proton and Angara Rocket.


Are you having a laugh - the YF 100 is a baby engine compared to the RD 180.
 
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China is second to no one when establishing data link in supporting its deep space exploration endeavour, and as the world's only hyperpower, far superior to the U.S. and Russia all put together.

Boasting of controlling the world largest single dish radio telescope, with no equivalent in the world, the 500 meters aperture FAST has superior sensitivity to detect the faintest radio signal among the farthest space probes.

Enough for sending the Tianwen series heliosphere deep space probe beyond our solar system.

d41586-019-02790-3_17178384.jpg

https://archive.vn/YnB8d/d7b468a35e1513ff25ccaa44acc69d032e29bb38.jpg ; https://archive.vn/YnB8d/76abafa2d329383ec48f4d51d05b65dd2c360753/scr.png ; https://web.archive.org/web/20201212161601/https://media.nature.com/lw800/magazine-assets/d41586-019-02790-3/d41586-019-02790-3_17178384.jpg ; https://web.archive.org/web/20190924173205/https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02790-3 ; https://archive.vn/kKccV
1. The Five-hundred-meter Aperture Spherical Radio Telescope (FAST) in southern China is the world’s largest single-dish radio telescope.

Meanwhile closer to the inner solar system, China has established a world wide array of radio antenna that ensure no blackout and continuous line of sight with all its Tianwen series and Chang'e series space probes.

TRACKING STATIONS

Changchun
Guiyang
Khashi Tianshan Station
Minxi
Nanning Guijiang Station
Weinan Station / Wei South station
Xiamen
Yilan

OTHER TRACKING STATIONS

Dongfeng Station
Hetian / WADA Station
Jiamusi / Jia linhai Station
Lushan station
Nanhai Station / Bureau of Nankai
Qingdao Station
Tianshan station
Zhanyi Station

OTHER TRACKING STATIONS

Hainan Station
Jiaodong Bohai Sea Station
Kunming Dianchi Lake Station
South Island Station
Western Hunan station

Overseas TRACKING STATIONS

Argentina - Neuquén Station
Australia - Dongara, Western Australia
Chile - Santiago Station
Kenya - Malindi Station
Kiribati - South Tarawa Island
Sweden - Kiruna
Namibia - Swakopmund
Pakistan - Karachi + Lahore Stations

Overseas Satellite Maritime Tracking and Control (SMTC)

Yuan Wang tracking ship #1
Yuan Wang tracking ship #2
Yuan Wang tracking ship #3
Yuan Wang tracking ship #4
Yuan Wang tracking ship #5
Yuan Wang tracking ship #6

846b525e-e971-4cf4-b047-b944f576fe4b.jpeg

https://archive.vn/PTQe2/43a8bcc8719356cf7e2865e250b4960c8c9dead5.jpg ; https://archive.vn/PTQe2/6d0571f2b8273577350c3d6a504033222170fc41/scr.png ; https://web.archive.org/web/20210120070605/https://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2021/2021-01-18/846b525e-e971-4cf4-b047-b944f576fe4b.jpeg ; https://web.archive.org/web/20210126001012/https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213156.shtml ; https://archive.vn/qnead
2. Some of the international parternership of the Chinese Deep Space Tracking Network.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210219214004/https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/facility.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20201219040915/https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/49173/how-did-argentina-namibia-and-pakistan-help-china-monitor-and-communicate-with
https://archive.vn/HZK1t




The USA's Perserverance rover has a 5-satellite network of "western" Mars orbiting satellites, a "Deep Space Network (DSN)", to communicate data to Earth. Is China co-operating with this western DSN to communicate with Tianwen-1? to assist in its landing?

There is no direct communication during a 7 minutes atmospheric entry when there is 11 minutes delay with the earth.

Obviously everything is decided on the spot by the most advanced onboard A.I. in order to avoid a catastrophe.

That is what the Soviet Union lacked back in the Cold War era and also Russia and the Europeans (ESA, UK) today, thus causing all their Mars probes to fail!

6e323515d66ee30841cae4a9a7318d3b72b3e685.gif

ae4ffdaeb02c2ea160fb33e41686a846f36755ca.gif

022c2d783cdf337beef335add6afdbf99880963d.png
4b7f704c1b6a7a2291742bd3986353bc70cc2569.png


:cool:🚬
 
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"Successful space travel often means pooling resources, and at ESA we are happy to support the new Martian mission with our Estrack network of antennas as well as with our Mars Express spacecraft, currently in orbit at the Red Planet," ESA's Beatriz Arias told Space.com.


ESA's Kourou ground station will catch signals from the spacecraft as it separates from the launcher after liftoff, providing information on the probe's distance and movements and enabling communications.


After liftoff and until Tianwen-1 enters Martian orbit, ESA's New Norcia (Australia) and Cebreros (Spain) stations will make a total of eight communication linkups with the spacecraft to support a highly precise navigation/trajectory determination technique known as Delta-DOR (short for "Delta-Differential One-way Range").


Once at the Red Planet, the Mars Express orbiter will provide data relay support, acting as a go-between, alongside the Chinese orbiter, for the data gathered by China's rover on the Martian surface and ground stations on Earth, ESA officials have said. However, this is backup only, as China's own orbiter will provide the prime relay service.

I hope you do read till the end, its for backup use incase our primary tracking n control fails numb numb. We are not India. Using pslv and i2k satellite and call it advanced.
 
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I hope you do read till the end, its for backup use incase our primary tracking n control fails numb numb. We are not India. Using pslv and i2k satellite and call it advanced.

Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself?
It is you that failed to read to the end.


Argentina, France, Austria
Argentina's Comisión Nacional de Actividades Espaciales (CONAE) is thought to be tied to Tianwen-1 by way of a Chinese-run tracking station installed in Las Lajas, Argentina. The facility played a role in China's landing of the Chang'e-4 spacecraft on the far side of the moon in January 2019.

The Institute for Research in Astrophysics and Planetology (IRAP) in Toulouse, France is collaborating with China on the Tianwen-1 rover.


CNES is the program manager of this collaboration, Sylvestre Maurice of IRAP told Space.com.


"For their Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy (LIBS) instrument, we have delivered a calibration target that is a French duplicate of a target which is on [NASA's] Curiosity [Mars rover]. The idea is to see how the two datasets compare," Maurice said.


Meanwhile, the Austrian space sector, under the Austrian Research Promotion Agency (FFG), has been reported to aid in the development of a magnetometer installed on the Chinese Mars orbiter.


The Space Research Institute (Institut für Weltraumforschung, IWF) of the Austrian Academy of Sciences in Graz has confirmed the group's contribution to the Tianwen-1 magnetometer and helped with the calibration of the flight instrument, explained Andreas Geisler, head of the FFG Aeronautics and Space Agency.


"The Aeronautics and Space Agency of the Austrian Research Promotion Agency has framed the cooperation on the basis of an agency to agency memorandum of understanding (MoU) with CNSA," Geisler told Space.com.
 
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Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself?
It is you that failed to read to the end.


Argentina, France, Austria
Argentina's Comisión Nacional de Actividades Espaciales (CONAE) is thought to be tied to Tianwen-1 by way of a Chinese-run tracking station installed in Las Lajas, Argentina. The facility played a role in China's landing of the Chang'e-4 spacecraft on the far side of the moon in January 2019.

The Institute for Research in Astrophysics and Planetology (IRAP) in Toulouse, France is collaborating with China on the Tianwen-1 rover.


CNES is the program manager of this collaboration, Sylvestre Maurice of IRAP told Space.com.


"For their Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy (LIBS) instrument, we have delivered a calibration target that is a French duplicate of a target which is on [NASA's] Curiosity [Mars rover]. The idea is to see how the two datasets compare," Maurice said.


Meanwhile, the Austrian space sector, under the Austrian Research Promotion Agency (FFG), has been reported to aid in the development of a magnetometer installed on the Chinese Mars orbiter.


The Space Research Institute (Institut für Weltraumforschung, IWF) of the Austrian Academy of Sciences in Graz has confirmed the group's contribution to the Tianwen-1 magnetometer and helped with the calibration of the flight instrument, explained Andreas Geisler, head of the FFG Aeronautics and Space Agency.


"The Aeronautics and Space Agency of the Austrian Research Promotion Agency has framed the cooperation on the basis of an agency to agency memorandum of understanding (MoU) with CNSA," Geisler told Space.com.
I think i replied to you before, France is supplying a TARGET. A calibration target, do you know what is that? I don't think you are an engineer like me, so I won't go deeper. The point is anyone can supply that but China insist on French participation go make it look international, so everyone can have some bragging rights. Argentina and the other places are Chinese run stations. Understand big? Why do you think we have 7 yuanwang ships? It's to provide TT&C WITHOUT THE NEED OF BASES overseas.

And the Austrians assist with the development of magnetometer, with or without them, we would have created one right? Magnetometer had been produced in China for decades. Unlike India who. Likes importing stuff, we prefer self reliance. Lol

In the future, don't just copy and paste. Understand what you copied. The core technology here is precision control and command which done without the need of NASA or Esa unlike India.
 
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I think i replied to you before, France is supplying a TARGET. A calibration target, do you know what is that? I don't think you are an engineer like me, so I won't go deeper. The point is anyone can supply that but China insist on French participation go make it look international, so everyone can have some bragging rights. Argentina and the other places are Chinese run stations. Understand big? Why do you think we have 7 yuanwang ships? It's to provide TT&C WITHOUT THE NEED OF BASES overseas.

And the Austrians assist with the development of magnetometer, with or without them, we would have created one right? Magnetometer had been produced in China for decades. Unlike India who. Likes importing stuff, we prefer self reliance. Lol

In the future, don't just copy and paste. Understand what you copied. The core technology here is precision control and command which done without the need of NASA or Esa unlike India.

did I comment about China's capability on this thread? I merely posted from online sources the role other nations had in the Chinese mission. I did not debate the magnitude of the role.
 
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