How much is it his own making: Imran Khan Down Fall?

[Jungibaaz]

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Was I wrong somewhere? Did he indeed have a majority? Please let me know if so.

Why dont we just make a commission and investigate cypher? After all president of PAKISTAN ask for it. Rora kon daal raha ?
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I say make it public ek hi baar mey sara qissa mukey ,imran jhuta ha to samney aajani baat .

Agree. And I have to wonder why Imran who knew about a conspiracy since Mid-2021 waited and did nothing. Then he knew of concrete plans in Nov and he did nothing. Then he heard about developments in parliament in Jan and he did nothing. Then the cypher (conspiracy) was received in early March and no investigation was ordered. Only by end March and early April did he start to make public comments and links between VNC and the supposed threat letter/cable/cypher, and instead of kicking off a proper investigation or making the contents public, he kicks the ball to the SC and says that they need to investigate - not their job.

So yeah, I think the whole thing should be made public. It should be investigated and any conspiracy unfolded.

Again, I have to ask, what useful input would the US have provided given that Imran’s allies had already fled and given that the opposition were already looking to remove him? No speculation please, Imran has made extensive claims, let’s hear something close to reality. Thanks.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Yes, this is how it was executed here. Different methods are adopted in different regions of the world depending on the ground realities; in some places, it is directly executed by the military in some others it is the opposition, sometimes it is both and sometimes it is some third factor. Regime change can also be imposed on a country by foreign actors through invasion, overt or covert interventions, or coercive diplomacy.

The points you should ponder upon:

1. Over a dozen parties with extremely opposing philosophies coming on one page, how so? (joining hands with your mother & grandfather's killers/enablers is a new low)

2. Taking over the country at the crossroads of economic crisis and bankruptcy

3. As the saying goes, when your enemy is making a mistake don't interrupt them. Supposedly IK's tenure was extremely poor and it would have been a final nail in the coffin for PTI yet they made sure to breathe a new life into it.

4. Courts opening on midnight even on petition of unknown individuals while the petitions of government being rejected at around 2.30 PM on pretext of "after office hours"

So If your answer is all of this is done to benefit themselves against corruption cases. First of all, congratulations that you have admitted to their corruption, secondly their cases weren't getting anywhere in the last 40 years - in most cases, the IOs, witnesses, judges, and prosecutors all develop sudden cardiac problems before passing away or they get unlimited reliefs from court just like NS sitting in London and no court is daring to ask his guarantor about the guarantee he furnished before the honorable court.

You should also ponder upon:

1. Does the US have a history of orchestrating a regime change?
2. Does our politicians, bureaucrats, generals, and judges have assets in the US or in its major allies?
3. Which countries do these officers eventually settle into after retirement?
4. Does the US have a history of asking us to "do more" above and beyond the usual or even sometimes what is considered legal or according to diplomatic norms?
5. What is the most appropriate forum to investigate the regime change claim?
6. What is the status of any investigation in this regard, so much so is there even any investigation going on?
7. Four back to back benches were made in the span of 24 hours to deliberate upon the Mariam safdar's passport return, was there even a single bench formed to investigate regime change?

Will address some of these points later, they provide good context but we’re missing a smoking gun here.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

Was I wrong somewhere? Did he indeed have a majority? Please let me know if so.

Oh as if we dont know who control tareen and aleem khan group .

As if we dont know usa kis ko tari laga raha tha.

As is we don't know cypher per investigation kyun ni ki ja rahi .

As if we don't know kal tak jo india k yaar ,modi k yaar ,jindaal k yaar ,mulk k ghaddar they wo ek dum se kesey pm bana diye gaye .

As if we dont know jo din mey 2pm band ho jatey they wo raat ko 12bajey kesey khul gaye .
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As i said you can't fool everyone all the time .
Sirf ap hi log aqal e kul ni ho bhai hum mey bhi soch samjh hay .

 

[imadul]

Of course he made mistakes.

He should have castrated the mafia nexus (establishment/bureaucracy/waderas) the moment he came to power. But he chose to do let time wear them out which as time would tell us is on the mafia's side.

In a way, but there were so many challenges. Inexperienced, deal with nawaz appointed administration, economy. He also don't have deep cunning thinkers to advise.
The NEUTRALS just did a huge blow to the country for their selfish interests.
GOOD THING THEY ARE EXPOSED FOR WHATEVER FUTUTE LEFT FOR US.

We always had Erdogan template, to bid time, develop the country, he was also pushed around by Military there, but he came very powerful when came 2nd time. He still bid his time and took stern action when Army plus golen planned the coup.
IK 2nd coming will be, BEWARE ALL.

 

[Enigma SIG]

In a way, but there were so many challenges. Inexperienced, deal with nawaz appointed administration, economy. He also don't have deep cunning thinkers to advise.
The NEUTRALS just did a huge blow to the country for their selfish interests.
GOOD THING THEY ARE EXPOSED FOR WHATEVER FUTUTE LEFT FOR US.

We always had Erdogan template, to bid time, develop the country, he was also pushed around by Military there, but he came very powerful when came 2nd time. He still bid his time and took stern action when Army plus golen planned the coup.
IK 2nd coming will be, BEWARE ALL.

I recommend a no holds barred approach. Guillotines. In parade ground.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

His was a new dimension, a new voice, and a vision, and he struggled ardently for 17 years to get major triumph in 2013 elections forming KPK government and second largest in NA.
In 2018 he again won KPK, formed Punjab and federal governments with difficult compromises.
First year was spent to know how to govern. He performed well in atrocious conditions of COVID-19 pandemic and resurrected stagnant economy. All this time PMIK outsourced lots of political debt to now so-called NEUTRALS who got more and more control.

IK says he knew about conspiracies for about an year, yet he did not ACT!

Conspiracies CLIMAXED in March-April. He remained undecisive. General Bajwa who was actively shuffling political cards after IK resisted DG ISI appointment loathefully bared his real face during Islamabad Security Dialogue when he flagrantly opposed civil government declared policy on Russia-Ukraine crisis. It was the time IK should have shown mettle and fired double faced General Bajwa.
In coming few weeks Bajwa blockaded few remaining options and gave final order to attack.
IK resisted, but still could not declassify the cipher due to undecisiveness. Courts convened midnight on April 9th, 2022.
IK legal team could not present a forceful case, did not present the cipher and chose to send the cipher separately later rather as an evidence and in its full form.

In the battle of power, weakness and undecisiveness are self inflicted blows while the enemy is a trained ruthless puppet master who uses cold hearted calculation of an assassin to drive the final blow, one is only left to lament.

IK is good for making speeches but does not know how to run a government. He failed to get IMF loan in 3.5 years. The economic situation was getting worse day after day and Pakistan was becoming another Srilanka. So he needed an excuse to quit and made up this story of foreign hand to make himself look good at the expense of Pakistan.

 

[Zowais]

It's only complicated if you believe Imran's convoluted and unproven conspiracies.

But I stated a fact, PTI types can cry rivers, IK had no majority, and then he lost his majority, how it happened is either trivial or a grand conspiracy. SC's comments were pretty much on point again.

Going by your logic, no civilian PM ever had clear majority in Pakistan as none could complete his term.
May be zia and mush had super majorities for completing decades.

Hi,

Usman Buzdar caused his downfall. IK would have walked away from worst blunders if he had not tagged onto BUZDAR---.

My younger sister says---if the TURKS have recognized Israel---then why does pakistan have any problem with it. Then it suddenly dawned upon me that the Turks were the last rulers of the area that is palestine---and they have accepted the fact that Jerusalem / palestine are gone.

Any other nation making this an issue are have no right to contest after Turkiyah's admission.

IK had no cause to take a stand on israel. His first priority should have been pakistan and pakistan alone.

IK had no authority to put the existence of pakistan on stake for this stand.

Neither jinnah, IK, nor Pakistani people had the right to give policy statement on israel. Only our very dear MK had this preveledge

 

[blain2]

Maa Sadke.

I wish it was that simple.

It was. What is hilarious is that the one thread for "introspection" barely has 2-3 pages compared to frothing-at-the-mouth attacks (I mean hundreds of posts) on countless other threads targeting all others besides IK and party.

Double-standards and hypocrisy galore.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Going by your logic, no civilian PM ever had clear majority in Pakistan as none could complete his term.
May be zia and mush had super majorities for completing decades.

Nope, not my logic at all. Imran Khan was the only PM to be voted out via parliament. Most/All others were kicked out be generals, courts, murdered, president's dismissal. All you need to be a victim of the former is to lose your majority, which he never had without the support of his allies. He lost it, he went.

 

[blain2]

We may not like this but it is the truth. Noone forced PTI to make coalition with Mqm,Bap, Pmlq and Independents. I remember many members were not happy with lotas joining Pti because we knew they will backstab, same with mqm and others. PTI still did it for the kursi and these same people then left the coalition, under pressure or not. In AJK assembly its exactly the same, so many ex ppp, pmln, electables are in PTI.

I do could see the differences between military and IK though, and once they took the blessing away Pti crumbled.

PTI's very own sold them out first by switching sides and then the coalition partners parted ways. That they could not understand and arrest these departures or outmaneuver their political opponents requires some serious introspection. The party was outplayed in a numbers game in the NA. The overt-reliance on the crutch to continue to keep them glued with coalition partners was only going to yield limited dividends.

 

[Jungibaaz]

It was. What is hilarious is that the one thread for "introspection" barely has 2-3 pages compared to frothing-at-the-mouth attacks (I mean hundreds of posts) on countless other threads targeting all others besides IK and party.

Double-standards and hypocrisy galore.

Introspection is a US conspiracy. Ukraine... [something, something] cypher, [expletive].... CJP and Bajwa.

/thread

 

[blain2]

In fairness, let me be constructive too. If the fame to claim for PTI is that it is the ONLY national party, then its time to unite and not divide on narrow political lines. They need to open up channels of communications to everyone. Pakistan's dire economic situation is not a single/ruling party's problem. Balochistan insurgency, TTP talks, relations with Gulf, West all require unity and at least some convergence.

The situation in Pakistan is that of a horrendous divorce that continues disrupting the lives of all involved for months and years after. This country cannot afford it. It is already tearing at the seams due to the population bubble, resource run-down, aging infrastructure, a changing world order and what not.

If PTI has the street power then wait till next elections in Fall 2023 and show it at the ballots. I hope they win but why continue this standoff and tear-it-all down (what little of it is left) approach?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

IK is trying to set a new normal for the Pak Deep State so that they give Biat to the civilian elected leadership and implement their plans, that is, to be the Muktedir....

It took Reis Erdo'an long 14 years of trials and tribulations - braving numerous assassination & coup attempts, financial crisis, political quagmires etc. - to be the Muktedir!! And, that too after the common folks threw themselves in front of the tanks, and the traitors were taken down by offering Shehits....

El Sabr while continuing with the relentless Mujadele...

Today is the 15th July, the 6th anniversary when the Turkish folks said: Turkiye gechinelmez - Turkey can't be transgressed....

One such Shehit from the Police Special Forces unit. No Kurban, No Dava! Verily, HE is with the Sabirin...

 

[Enigma SIG]

If PTI has the street power then wait till next elections in Fall 2023 and show it at the ballots. I hope they win but why continue this standoff and tear-it-all down (what little of it is left) approach?

Let's tear it down first because as obvious from the last 75 years it isn't working out with business as usual.

I hope PA doesn't keep throwing people in the meat grinder because of the inability to think out of the box.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Let's objectively look at IK's report card

1) Kashmir - A big failure
2) IMF - Big failure
3) Controling prices - Big failure
4) PKR - Big failure
5) Foreign Relations - Colossal failure

Big success (and credit where due) that IK got was that he did not do demonetization like dumb Modi and shutdown/Lockdown Pakistan like dumb Modi & Xi.