How China developed J-11B fighter jet and WZ-10 attack helicopter

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

 

[hyperman]

How china paid Kamov to design a helicopter and reverse engineered the su-27, and imported engines to fit onto the copied design from Russia.

 

[Bossman]

How china paid Kamov to design a helicopter and reverse engineered the su-27, and imported engines to fit onto the copied design from Russia.

Indians paid Kurt Tank to design their first indigenous fighter, it went straight from the factory to the junk yard. Than it got licenses to build, among others, the Gnat, the Mig 21, Su 33MKIs and still could not create their own fighter. For the Dhruv they took help from the French and Germans, among others. For the Tejas the Americans, the French, the Israelis and it is still a hangar queen. It takes brains even to reverse engineer.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

How china paid Kamov to design a helicopter and reverse engineered the su-27, and imported engines to fit onto the copied design from Russia.

WZ-10 is largely Chinese design. Kamov only made counter rotating helicopters at the time, vastly different from WZ-10's conventional rotor.

 

[hyperman]

WZ-10 is largely Chinese design. Kamov only made counter rotating helicopters at the time, vastly different from WZ-10's conventional rotor.

The Kamov design bureau was contracted to perform the development work under a secret contract. Kamov worked with the Chinese to establish base specifications, such as weight, speed and payload capacity after which they had full freedom to design the helicopter. Kamov designed, tested and verified the helicopter design, after which it was provided to the Chinese team.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The Kamov design bureau was contracted to perform the development work under a secret contract. Kamov worked with the Chinese to establish base specifications, such as weight, speed and payload capacity after which they had full freedom to design the helicopter. Kamov designed, tested and verified the helicopter design, after which it was provided to the Chinese team.

Nah. Kamov was never contracted. It was 100 percent Chinese design and R&D. No Russian design, component was used.

 

[hyperman]

Nah. Kamov was never contracted. It was 100 percent Chinese design and R&D. No Russian design, component was used.

Kamov Reveals Involvement in China’s Z-10 Attack Helicopter

During a press conference at last week’s Heli-Expo convention in Las Vegas, Kamov general designer Sergei Mikheyev dropped something of a bombshell when he revealed that the Kamov Design Bureau had produced the initial conceptual design for China’s Changhe (CAIC) Z-10 attack helicopter. Having...

web.archive.org

China's Cutting-Edge Attack Helicopter Is Actually A Russian Design | Business Insider India

Defense China Russia helicopter

www.businessinsider.in

Wu Ximing (吴希明) of the 602nd Research Institute, one of the Chinese top scientists involved in the 863 Program was publicly credited with being the chief designer of the Z-10, in an attempt to preserve the secrecy of the Kamov contract.

It's important to note that Kamov was not the only entity that gave China a hand. Pratt and Whitney, and Canadian defense company, paid a hefty $75 million dollar fine for delivering helicopter engine hardware for the Z-10 to China.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Kamov Reveals Involvement in China’s Z-10 Attack Helicopter

During a press conference at last week’s Heli-Expo convention in Las Vegas, Kamov general designer Sergei Mikheyev dropped something of a bombshell when he revealed that the Kamov Design Bureau had produced the initial conceptual design for China’s Changhe (CAIC) Z-10 attack helicopter. Having...

web.archive.org

China's Cutting-Edge Attack Helicopter Is Actually A Russian Design | Business Insider India

Defense China Russia helicopter

www.businessinsider.in

Wu Ximing (吴希明) of the 602nd Research Institute, one of the Chinese top scientists involved in the 863 Program was publicly credited with being the chief designer of the Z-10, in an attempt to preserve the secrecy of the Kamov contract.

It's important to note that Kamov was not the only entity that gave China a hand. Pratt and Whitney, and Canadian defense company, paid a hefty $75 million dollar fine for delivering helicopter engine hardware for the Z-10 to China.

They gave a proposal but it was only studied. The production design is vastly different from the Kamov proposal. It's sort of like they studied Lavi for J-10 but the actual production plane is very different.

Early J-10 model based on Lavi:

Production J-10:

 

[PradoTLC]

Indians paid Kurt Tank to design their first indigenous fighter, it went straight from the factory to the junk yard. Than it got licenses to build, among others, the Gnat, the Mig 21, Su 33MKIs and still could not create their own fighter. For the Dhruv they took help from the French and Germans, among others. For the Tejas the Americans, the French, the Israelis and it is still a hangar queen. It takes brains even to reverse engineer.

please..stop Indians are suffering too much these days.. from covid to Chinese , from PAF to butt licking Israel...

The Kamov design bureau was contracted to perform the development work under a secret contract. Kamov worked with the Chinese to establish base specifications, such as weight, speed and payload capacity after which they had full freedom to design the helicopter. Kamov designed, tested and verified the helicopter design, after which it was provided to the Chinese team.

and you took Me 262 designs and corporate into the F-86 sabre.. so what?

 

[hyperman]

and you took Me 262 designs and corporate into the F-86 sabre.. so what?

the f-86 isn't a copy only thing similar between them is that both are jet powered.

The Kamov design bureau literally designed that helicopter, tested and verified the helicopter design, after which they handed it over to the Chinese. the J-11 is a straight up reverse engineering job.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

the f-86 isn't a copy only thing similar between them is that both are jet powered.

The Kamov design bureau literally designed that helicopter, tested and verified the helicopter design, after which they handed it over to the Chinese. the J-11 is a straight up reverse engineering job.

The Kamov design is nothing like Z-10. I show you the picture in your link.

the J-11 is a straight up reverse engineering job

J-11B is vastly superior to any other Su-27 version. J-11B is upgraded with modern AESA. No other single seat Flanker has AESA. Su-35 still uses PESA.

Chinese J-11B Jet Upgraded with AESA Radar Enters Series Production: Reports

China’s J-11B fighter aircraft equipped with an Active Electronic Scanning Array (AESA) radar has entered series production. The upgraded aircraft, possibly re-designated as J-11BG has entered batch production at the Shenyang aircraft plant of the Aviation Industries Corporation of China...

www.defenseworld.net

 

[hyperman]

lol whatever dude, Kamov literally confirmed they designed it and did the validation testing, the chinese assembled it, and did flight testing, and then calling it a chinese helicopter. lol

This is basically what they did. lol https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/624/064/0b0

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

lol whatever dude, Kamov literally confirmed they designed it and did the validation testing, the chinese assembled it, and did flight testing, and then calling it a chinese helicopter. lol

The only attack helicopter Kamov makes is Ka-50 / 52. It's nothing like Z-10. Actually, Kamov does not make any helicopter that does not have counter rotating rotor. See the difference?

 

[hyperman]

The only attack helicopter Kamov makes is Ka-50 / 52. It's nothing like Z-10. Actually, Kamov does not make any helicopter that does not have counter rotating rotor. See the difference?

this is some really dumb logic, so if I understand this correctly, you think that Kamov couldn't have designed the helicopter b/c it doens't look like the ka-50? I mean by this logic I guess sukhoi couldn't have possibly designed the su-57, b/c it doesnt look like the su-27. Why does a product have to look like a previous design to be plausable as something built by someone? Maybe the chinese design mindset comes from copying a previous design, but this does't apply to everyone. This is completely silly, Kamov has been designing helicopters for 81 years, of various types. the Z-10 was a new design study specifally commissioned based on requirements given to them by the Chinese govt under a contract, which which was confirmed by Kamov. This completely idiotic logic can also be undone by taking a look at the Kamov Ka-60, which is a more conventional rotor design. Are you really trying to make the argument that Kamov doesn't know how to design a conventional helicopter, b/c they are really known for their Coaxial rotors?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

this is some really dumb logic, so if I understand this correctly, you think that Kamov couldn't have designed the helicopter b/c it doens't look like the ka-50? I mean by this logic I guess sukhoi couldn't have possibly designed the su-57, b/c it doesnt look like the su-27. Why does a product have to look like a previous design to be plausable as something built by someone? Maybe the chinese design mindset comes from copying a previous design, but this does't apply to everyone. This is completely silly, Kamov has been designing helicopters for 81 years, of various types. the Z-10 was a new design study specifally commissioned based on requirements given to them by the Chinese govt under a contract, which which was confirmed by Kamov.

If Chinese wanted to they can simply buy Ka-50 / 52 and clone it. They don't need to hire Kamov to make a design. Actually, Chinese uses a lot of Kamov helicopters in navy for example. Ka-52 has vastly more powerful engines than Z-10, 2000+ hp compared to 1300 hp.