History of China

[siegecrossbow]

I can't believe that no one started a thread on Chinese history yet! Well here you go. On this thread you can discuss absolutely ANYTHING as long as it is related to Chinese history. From the Qin Dynasty to the Qing Dynasty, from the Republic to the People's Republic... This thread is going to have it all!

Let the discussions begin!

 

[lcloo]

Qin Dynasty, though brutal, was the beginning for a united Chinese nation. The standardization of roads, width of wheel base, written characters etc forged the one nation identity to the people.

Qing Dynasty rulers though regarded as outsiders for being non-Han, had ironically had contributed to a Chinese nation comprising of many ethnic races and a relatively large territory, though at the end of their rules, huge mass of lands were lost to western colonist, especially the north east. And China's treasury was drained by huge war reparation, in millions of oz of silver, paid to western nations that invaded China. And resulted in nearly 100 years of China being a poor nation, and only ended after Deng Xiao Ping's open economic policy bear fruits.

The warlord period after collapse of Qing Dynasty saw many provinces declared independence from central government, Outer Mongolia break away with Soviet's instigation. Tibet, under British influnce, expelled the KMT troops , North western Xinjiang, with Soviet help, declared itself as East Turkestan, Sichuan, Hunan, North East Province etc also declared independence.

It took the Nationalist Revolution Army decades to fight and negotiate to bring many provinces into the fold of the central government, before the whole of China was re-united, then the imperial Japanese invaded China.

 

[somebozo]

Many people here curiously inquire about basis of strong Sino-Pak releations..So I have choosen to cover releations of various Sino dyansties with Muslims and Islam. This will be a multi part series covering each Chinese ruling dynasty. The information is collected from various sources and mixed.

Let this also be a blow to Indians who think Sino-Pak alliance is only in contrast of balancing India.

Tang Dynasty

According to China Muslims' traditional legendary accounts, Islam was first brought to China by an embassy sent by Uthman, the third Caliph, in 651, less than twenty years after the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The embassy was led by Sa`d ibn Abī Waqqās, the maternal uncle of the prophet himself. Emperor Gaozong, the Tang emperor who received the envoy then ordered the construction of the Memorial mosque in Canton, the first mosque in the country, in memory of the prophet.

While modern historians say that there is no evidence for Waqqās himself ever coming to China,[2] they do believe that Muslim diplomats and merchants arrived to Tang China within a few decades from the beginning of Muslim Era.[2] The Tang Dynasty's cosmopolitan culture, with its intensive contacts with Central Asia and its significant communities of (originally non-Muslim) Central and Western Asian merchants resident in Chinese cities, which helped the introduction of Islam.[2] The first major Muslim settlements in China consisted of Arab and Persian merchants.[3] During the Tang and especially the Song eras, comparatively well-established, even if somewhat segregated, mercantile Muslim communities existed in the port cities of Guangzhou, Quanzhou, and Hangzhou on China's southeastern seaboard, as well as in the interior centers such as Chang'an, Kaifeng, and Yangzhou.[4]

Prior to 500 CE and hence before the establishment of Islam, Arab seafarers had established trade relations with the "Middle Kingdom" (China). Arab ships bravely set off from Basra at the tip of the Arabian Gulf and also from the town of Qays (Siraf) in the Persian Gulf. They sailed the Indian Ocean passing Sarandip (Sri Lanka) and navigated their way through the Straits of Malacca which were between the Sumatran and Malaysian peninsulas en route to the South China Sea. They established trading posts on the southeastern coastal ports of Quanzhou and Guangzhou. Some Arabs had already settled in China and probably embraced Islam when the first Muslim deputation arrived, as their families and friends back in Arabia, had already embraced Islam during the Holy Prophet's revelation (610-32).

In Madina, Sa'd, using his ability in architecture added an Iwan (an arched hall used by a Persian Emperor) as a worship area. He later laid the foundation of what was to be the first Mosque in China where early Islamic architecture forged a relationship with Chinese architecture.

Sa'd later settled in Guangzhou and built the Huaisheng Mosque which was an important event in the history of Islam in China.
The 'Great Mosque of Guangzhou' is also known as Huaisheng Mosque which means 'Remember the Sage' (A Memorial Mosque to the Holy Prophet) and is also popularly called the 'Guangta Mosque' which translates as 'The Beacon Tower Mosque'. Huaisheng Mosque is located on Guantgta Road (Light Pagoda Road) which runs eastwards off Renmin Zhonglu. It is reputedly the oldest surviving mosque in the whole of China and is over 1300 years old. It survived through several historical events which inevitably took place outside its door step. This mosque still stands in excellent condition in modern Guangzhou after repairs and restorations.

Whilst an Islamic state was founded by the Holy Prophet Muhammad, China was enduring a period of unification and defence. Early Chinese annals mentioned Muslim Arabs and called their kingdom al-Madinah (of Arabia). Islam in Chinese is called "Yisilan Jiao" (meaning "Pure Religion"). A Chinese official once described Makkah as being the birthplace of Buddha Ma-hia-wu (i.e. Holy Prophet Muhammad).

According to the ancient historical records of the T'ang Dynasty, an emissary from the kingdom of al-Madinah led by Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas and his deputation of Sahabah, who sailed on a special envoy to China in c.650 CE, via the Indian Ocean and the China Sea to the famous port of Guangzhou, thence traveled overland to Chang'an (present day Xi'an) via what was later known as the "Silk Route".

Sa'd and his deputation brought presents and were warmly received at the royal court by the T'ang Emperor Kao-tsung, (r. 650-683) in c.651 CE despite a recent plea of support against the Arabs forwarded to the Emperor in that same year by Shah Peroz (the ruler of Sassanids Persia). The latter was a son of Yazdegerd who, along with the Byzantines already had based their embassies in China over a decade earlier. Together they were the two great powers of the west. A similar plea made to Emperor Tai Tsung (r.627-649) against the simultaneous spread of Muslim forces was refused.

First news of Islam had already reached the T'ang royal court during the reign of Emperor Tai Tsung when he was informed by an embassy of the Sassanian king of Persia, as well as the Byzantiums of the emergence of the Islamic rule. Both sought protection from the might of China. Nevertheless, the second year of Kao-tsung's reign marks the first official visit by a Muslim embassador.

The emperor, after making enquiries about Islam, gave general approval to the new religion which he considered to be compatible with the teachings of Confucius. But he felt that the five daily canonical prayers and a month of fasting were requirements too severe for his taste and he did not convert. He allowed Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas and his delegation freedom to propagate their faith and expressed his admiration for Islam which consequently gained a firm foothold in the country.

 

[huzihaidao12]

What is the history of China? Let us look at a foreign friend's Ideas.

Interview mit Helmut Schmidt: Wir sehen China ganz falsch - Nachrichten - Politik - Home - Westdeutsche Zeitung

China, as a test of world history: more than ten years old and the Prime Minister Helmut Schmidt has been concerned about the rise of China, the giant country.

Mr. Prime Minister, to listen to your speech, read your articles about China written, my impression is that you use the most cautious approach to describe the development there, I feel you have great enthusiasm in China.

Schmidt: not a passion, a curiosity.

Why curious?

Schmidt: world history there have been many brilliant culture. For example, in areas of today's Iran and Iraq, before there was a fruitful culture of Mesopotamia, there are even earlier in Mesopotamia culture. In addition, I also thought of the Incas in South America, Thor Aitken and Aztec and India, Egypt's civilization.

Chinese culture has been four or five thousand years of history, this is it so special, it has been there, although it was already very old. Why is this so? Why did other ancient cultures may have fallen out? This is where my curiosity.


If someone asks you, China is not pursuing expansionist policies, you always say, this country has never had such a policy to pursue.

Schmidt: No, I do not think so. But this is China's large population are related. In Europe, only one million, twelve million or fifteen million people, China has a population of hundreds of millions. A populous country. Meanwhile, the state emerged in Europe in the past one thousand years, that is from the UK after 1066 or later King Ludwig I said, our national language in Europe is also divided.

Each country has its own language. Sometimes use different words. In the 20th century, Croats and Serbs are in the same state of Yugoslavia. When the exchange between them with each other can understand, but they can not understand each other's newspapers. Because the Serbian Cyrillic alphabet is the language used, and Croatia with the Latin alphabet.

Instead, hundreds of millions of population are the same word used, even if some people do not read or write. And the Chinese people is a huge local governors and the emperor has the right to compete between the countries. Engage in expansion, not a crusade for empire, such behavior may be due to a large population reasons.

In that glorious centuries, the Chinese people not only the vast territory of China, but also in culture and civilization of the leading position on the very clear that if they go to oppress other nations, will make them the pride of the discount . I said this time is that until 1500. At that time China is the center of the empire. Ancient Chinese people is so declared.

Other people are barbarians in their eyes. The Chinese people, if foreign capital occasionally to kowtow to their, tribute, and then go home, is enough. Chinese people to let foreigners know that China is big country, but only a marginal phenomenon in other countries only. This is not just cultural self-confidence, could lead to a very large extent, Chinese people do not pursue the policy of the imperialist-style.

They are different with the Romans, with the Athens Federation and other cultures are also different. Even the Egyptians have tried to extend their rule to Iraq or Persia. Chinese people do not advocate the expansion, there was only twice exception.

With experience in China and contacts with Chinese people, your own ideas changed?


Schmidt: possible, but I can not eleven minutes to carefully think out what has changed. However, each time to go, I have more impressive to Chinese people's cultural achievements.



I mention the last few issues. Do you know why you are open-minded of other cultures? Contact should be no relationship between family environment, right?


Schmidt: You are right. What is the role the family did not. As I interviewed the first to say, I'm always curious. The world has many ancient cultures, I have full respect for them. Such as Egypt. Just think of literature in the West known as Akhenaten's already dead Pharaoh Amun IV feats.

He had to abolish polytheism, he implemented a god. But he did not obtain long-term historical success. After his death, everything goes back to. This than Martin Luther achieved much greater achievements. I think this is fascinating. I used to have an Egyptian friend who was murdered in the State President Sadat.



He said to Moses, from the Aihe that Dayton has a spiritual bridge between, I can not find any evidence. One can not rule out this possibility. Moses probably in a hundred years after the Dayton Aihe it. At that time, another culture has experienced a brilliant development. But not a highly developed culture as Chinese culture that does not need God or deityd to be able to develop very well.

Why is it so?

Schmidt: hard to say. Perhaps they lack imagination, but it is also impossible. For me this is a mystery.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The emperor, after making enquiries about Islam, gave general approval to the new religion which he considered to be compatible with the teachings of Confucius. But he felt that the five daily canonical prayers and a month of fasting were requirements too severe for his taste and he did not convert. He allowed Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas and his delegation freedom to propagate their faith and expressed his admiration for Islam which consequently gained a firm foothold in the country.

Tang Tai-zong Li shi ming is held in very high regards in China. I, however, never knew that he contemplated converting to Islam once! This shows the level of tolerance that we had for different religions in the past.

Thanks for enlightening me bro.

 

[Speeder 2]

I can't believe that no one started a thread on Chinese history yet! Well here you go. On this thread you can discuss absolutely ANYTHING as long as it is related to Chinese history. From the Qin Dynasty to the Qing Dynasty, from the Republic to the People's Republic... This thread is going to have it all!

Let the discussions begin!

From your usename, I dare to guess that you must be an expert on Qin / Han Dynsties' weaponaries vis-a-vis Alexander de Great / Roman Empire alike. Tell me that I am right?

 

[siegecrossbow]

From your usename, I dare to guess that you must be an expert on Qin / Han Dynsties' weaponaries vis-a-vis Alexander de Great / Roman Empire alike. Tell me that I am right?

Correct. Guess what I am going to bring up next:

China was at the forefront of siege weaponry for much of her history. We produced innovations such as the triple-bow siegecrossbow, multi-shot crossbow, traction trebuchets, and early gunpowder weapons like the huochong and rocket launchers. One thing that bugged me, however, is the fact that although China invented trebuchets they never utilized the counterweight trebuchet, an Arabic innovation. Instead of using large counterweights to power the weapon hundreds of men are used to yank on ropes tethered to the catapult. Although I think that traction catapults are suitable for smaller catapults due to the ease of operation and faster rate of fire, counterweight trebuchets are far better for large scaled weapons. As a matter of fact the Arab engineers helped demolish the walls of Xiangyang during the Mongol siege. Any ideas on why that is the case?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I like the Qin and Han empire the most.

Ever played Dynasty warriors? Always used to play that when I was younger. I like the three kingdoms period in China...

 

[siegecrossbow]

I like the Qin and Han empire the best.

Ever played Dynasty warriors? Always used to play that when I was younger. I like the three kingdoms period in China...

I haven't played Dynasty warriors but the game is notorious enough in China. Great introduction for foreigners to the Three Kingdoms era of Chinese history.

Just FYI I share my last name with Lu Bu. Guess that makes me an uberboss on this thread lol.

 

[no_name]

I think it was near the end of the three kingdom that buddhism was infused into chinese culture.

It reached greatest influence under Tang and waned along with the dynasty.

You can sense the transition in the form of building designs/ clothing and art form in general.

The ancient chinese pagoda you see are derived from their indian counterparts. Before buddhism pagoda weren't built.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I think it was near the end of the three kingdom that buddhism was infused into chinese culture.

Really? I always thought that it didn't become popular until the Northern and Southern Dynasties. Liang Wu Di was the one who formalized many of the rules followed by Chinese buddhists such as not eating meat.

 

[no_name]

Well it was introduced during Han dynasty (daoism was prevalent then) but didn't really take off until the time you mentioned when emperior and court got popular with it.

I don't think people will be interested in what some monk have to say when their lives are on the line during the three kingdoms.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Well it was introduced during Han dynasty (daoism was prevalent then) but didn't really take off until the time you mentioned when emperior and court got popular with it.

I don't think people will be interested in what some monk have to say when their lives are on the line during the three kingdoms.

I think Guan Yu encountered a Buddhist monk in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms during when he tried to return to Liu Bei who warned him that Cao Cao's general wanted to kill him. ROTK, however, was written during the Ming Dynasty and I doubt the authenticity of that passage.

I think I'll post some pictures of authentic Three Kingdom arms/armor. Too many people are mislead by the book which describe Song and even Ming era arms and armor in the Three Kingdoms setting.

 

[no_name]

Good idea. Three kingdom armour looks a bit like japanese armour (the leather ones, not the one you see in samurai movies)

San Guo Zhi is the more historically accurate account of the three kingdoms.

I like San man jia, Ming guan jia but I also like Tang military uniform for ceremonies. They showed much flare.


EDIT: And lol, i think chinese armour depicted in dynastic warriors are about as accurate as western costume depicted in lord of the rings

 

[siegecrossbow]

Good idea. Three kingdom armour looks a bit like japanese armour (the leather ones, not the one you see in samurai movies)

San Guo Zhi is the more historically accurate account of the three kingdoms.

I like San man jia, Ming guan jia but I also like Tang military uniform for ceremonies. They showed much flare.


EDIT: And lol, i think chinese armour depicted in dynastic warriors are about as accurate as western costume depicted in lord of the rings

Here is the leather armor used during the Three Kingdoms period:

Here are the stylistic representations from Romance of the three kingdoms: