High-level army huddle briefed on recent incidents in Balochistan

[Taimoor Khan]

EXACTLY.

What an epoch when a country's defenders become doves and base policy on wishful thinking and abstract utopian delusions rather than realpolitik. What a travesty. What a tragedy.

Terrible civilian leadership hasn't helped. Everybody is in on it. Do justtt enough so Pakistan doesn't totally collapse so personal power, perks, privileges stay undisturbed. The biggest problem is the inexcusable lowering of standards: this level of security is acceptable, this level of economic development is "fine" for a poor country, etc. These are the ridiculous delusions that allow mediocrity to take over all facets of a state.

Post-colonial intellectual/mental slavery se kabhi nikal he nahi sakkay.

Cant agree more.

You know what bother me the most. I mean we are 220 million. That is a big number. Why on earth, after suffering so much, 80k plus dead and counting, which doesnt include the terrorists on other side that we killed who were ALSO Pakistanis, there is no inquisition , no debate, no general awareness just by exercising some common sense.. that this so called war these lot in GHQ fighting for last 20 years within the borders of Pakistan, is never ending cycle. The enemy nations will keep on sponsoring foot soldiers infinitely, laughing at our stupidity. Every nation worth it salt got fault lines within. America has got huge disgruntled black population, Israel treat its black Jews like dirt. Yet no nation exploit these vulnerabilities because the people who are responsible for the security of these nations will react instantly and reply by exploiting the other nation internal fault lines. This is how it works, always work like that. A deterrence at sub conventional level. Its not something alien to us in Pakistan. I have seen how Pakistan exploited India internal issues to keep it in check during Zia time. Its not a rocket science.

Its pathetic, its sad, its cringeworthy, when those 80k dead Pakistani are sold to this nation as a "sacrifice". Its a failure of biblical proportion by those who are incharge of security of Pakistan. Heads would have rolled in any self respecting nation on this monumental failure, as to how we reached to this pathetic state of affairs. You cannot tell this nation to keep on giving "sacrifices" when you are unwilling to hunt and put lead in the heads of kumars, Rajeevs, Mosavis, Haramzads, Davids, Johns of this world who are sitting in their comfortable offices planning their next move to kill more Pakistanis.

Lastly, If these people in GHQ are not willing to taken on the enemy nations in their own backyard, they are committing treason, they are not discharging their duties to protect Pakistan from both internal and external threats. I think its about to time a line must be added to the oath which should goes like "I will protect Pakistan from internal and external threats in every domain of warfare". Bound them by constitution.

 

[R Wing]

Cant agree more.

You know what bother me the most. I mean we are 220 million. That is a big number. Why on earth, after suffering so much, 80k plus dead and counting, which doesnt include the terrorists on other side that we killed who were ALSO Pakistanis, there is no inquisition , no debate, no general awareness just by exercising some common sense.. that this so called war these lot in GHQ fighting for last 20 years within the borders of Pakistan, is never ending cycle. The enemy nations will keep on sponsoring foot soldiers infinitely, laughing at our stupidity. Every nation worth it salt got fault lines within. America has got huge disgruntled black population, Israel treat its black Jews like dirt. Yet no nation exploit these vulnerabilities because the people who are responsible for the security of these nations will react instantly and reply by exploiting the other nation internal fault lines. This is how it works, always work like that. A deterrence at sub conventional level. Its not something alien to us in Pakistan. I have seen how Pakistan exploited India internal issues to keep it in check during Zia time. Its not a rocket science.

Its pathetic, its sad, its cringeworthy, when those 80k dead Pakistani are sold to this nation as a "sacrifice". Its a failure of biblical proportion by those who are incharge of security of Pakistan. Heads would have rolled in any self respecting nation on this monumental failure, as to how we reached to this pathetic state of affairs. You cannot tell this nation to keep on giving "sacrifices" when you are unwilling to hunt and put lead in the heads of kumars, Rajeevs, Mosavis, Haramzads, Davids, Johns of this world who are sitting in their comfortable offices planning their next move to kill more Pakistanis.

Lastly, If these people in GHQ are not willing to taken on the enemy nations in their own backyard, they are committing treason, they are not discharging their duties to protect Pakistan from both internal and external threats. I think its about to time a line must be added to the oath which should goes like "I will protect Pakistan from internal and external threats in every domain of warfare". Bound them by constitution.

I am writing my thesis on the stunted consciousness of post colonial power elites in Pakistan at Harvard right now. They literally cannot access the higher consciousness required to realize that the present status quo cannot work. But the status quo bias (an actual cognitive problem) is so strong --- both for transgenerational reasons related to a colonized mind and because of poorly aligned incentives --- that they have lowered standards and definitions of excellence and success rather than rising to the challenge.

This is the sign of an intellectually and morally bankrupt nation. We need drastic, radical change soon. The amount of people who think incremental improvements will save the day or, worse, that the present 'new normal' is the best we can do are part of what I call the "mediocrity trap." They are responsible for the country's destruction.

A former COAS (very well respected) who I interviewed as part of my research described it perfectly: qualitative deterioration. The example he gave was simple yet profound: heaps of trash in various corners of Lahore Cantt. The Corps Commander, two GOCs, and many Brigs and lower all work and roam around there all day, yet it doesn't bother anyone enough to clean things up. The second example was the motorcyclists-must-wear-helmets rule. It is generally enforced, and there are checkposts at all Cantt entry points to ensure compliance, but every day you see at least a few motorcyclists without helmets. This should be unthinkable --- because rules are rules, and if you can't enforce excellence in a small, highly controlled area like Lahore Cantt, what hope do you have of overcoming highly complex challenges that require daring and cleverness in equal measure?

Enough said...?

 

[TheSolution]

Army is unable to choke Pak-Afghan border adjacent to Noshiki. Entry and exit of terrorists in Pak territory are very easy.

More Than 300,000 Afghans Flee to Pakistan Since Taliban Takeover of Afghanistan​

December 16, 2021 2:53 PM

• Ayaz Gul

---

FILE - Afghan refugees rest in tents at a makeshift shelter camp in Chaman, a Pakistani town on the border with Afghanistan, Aug. 31, 2021.
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ISLAMABAD —
The Taliban takeover of neighboring Afghanistan in August forced more than 300,000 Afghans to take shelter in Pakistan but now most of them are being asked to go back.
Pakistani officials revealed the numbers Thursday for the first time, saying 105,000 Afghans entered Pakistan on valid visas, though they have stayed put even after the expiry of their travel documents.
“The rest of the 200,000 are illegal entrants and we are asking them to leave within 90 days as there is no crisis in Afghanistan,” Fawad Hussain, the Pakistani information minister, told VOA.
The minister noted his country already hosts nearly 3 million Afghans, including officially declared refugees and illegal economic migrants, and that the fragile Pakistani economy cannot bear the burden of new arrivals.
Pakistan, which shares a 2,600-kilometer border with its neighbor, tightened border controls after the Taliban seized power in Afghanistan on August 15 in a bid to discourage a fresh influx of refugees.
Officials said the large numbers of Afghans who arrived in the country illegally used old refugee status cards or documents declaring them as members of the tribes divided by the 1893 British demarcation of the border.
Mohammad Sadiq, Pakistan’s special representative for Afghanistan, said the government was devising a mechanism to enable those Afghans whose visas have expired to get their documents renewed within an officially "designated time frame so they are not here illegally.”
Sadiq told a meeting Wednesday of Pakistani and Afghan businessmen and civil society representatives earlier this week in Islamabad that his government does not plan to launch a crackdown on the illegal Afghan entrants if they are not involved in any criminal activity.
“We would even like to facilitate the stay of our Afghan brothers and sisters in case they want to live or do business here legally,” Sadiq told the gathering organized by the Islamabad-based Center for Research and Security Studies.
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Guardian said :

"Every day, tens of thousands of people have gathered at the border and about 20,000 have been crossing " every day, almost triple the usual 6,000."

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Iran to wall off Baluchistan border​

Al Jazeera’s Kamal Hyder investigates smuggling at the Baluchistan-Iran border.

By Kamal Hyder
Published On 11 Jun 200711 Jun 2007
Pakistan’s paramilitary force regularly patrols the border with Iran.

They’re on the lookout for guns, drugs and illegal immigrants.

But all they find tonight is fuel smugglers.

Exclusive report

Watch Kamal Hyder’s report on Iran’s controversial wall Some parked trucks are waiting for cheap Iranian fuel smuggled by camels and Iranian-made pickup trucks. The security forces thought they might be carrying weapons, so they search them, but discover nothing. But while it may be quiet here tonight, their comrades are trading fire along the Afghan frontier with narcotics traders. They have lost many men to an enemy that has fast vehicles and plenty of firepower. After a tense night, dawn comes at Taftan, Pakistan‘s only legal official border crossing into Iran and famed by locals as the “road to London“. Over 600km from Quetta, getting to Taftan is a journey of almost 12 hours of careful driving. Frontier wall Iran is constructing a concrete wall and many locals suspect they may seal off the entire frontier. Just over the hills, less than 100km is Pakistan‘s frontier with Afghanistan. Iran is building a wall along Pakistan’s border in an effort to stem smuggling But for now, Iran has left gaps for locals to cross at what they call the Easement Gate and carry essential commodities. Both the governments have agreed that there should be easement rights, in spite of the fact that Iran is building a huge wall along its frontier with Pakistan. Growing trade Commercial trade between the two countries is growing. It is now over $250m, almost double of last year’s. We got a rare chance to see exactly what these people carry across the border. There were crates and crates of mangos – this is the mango season in Pakistan and mangos are very popular. From the Iranian side however, detergents, toiletries, pastries and cakes are exported to Pakistan. Pakistan, Iran and India want to build a pipeline that will travel over Baluchistan’s challenging terrain. The ground in some places may look deceptively plain but it is undulating. And security forces are already beefing up their strength in an area that is of vital importance as a corridor for the country’s future gas and oil pipelines. SOURCE: AL JAZEERA

Army should let the village Afghans through that live on the border so there's no overlap and seal it.

 

[PK784]

Army should let the village Afghans through that live on the border so there's no overlap and seal it.

Better to follow Turkey's example and invade strategic parts of afghanistan to set-up a buffer zone.

 

[TheSolution]

Better to follow Turkey's example and invade strategic parts of afghanistan to set-up a buffer zone.

I don't ever see that happening, and Taliban will go on the offensive, do we even have enough money to sustain that?

 

[PK784]

I don't ever see that happening, and Taliban will go on the offensive, do we even have enough money to sustain that?

I dont think it would cost much, but would need backing from China.

 

[FuturePAF]

I am writing my thesis on the stunted consciousness of post colonial power elites in Pakistan at Harvard right now. They literally cannot access the higher consciousness required to realize that the present status quo cannot work. But the status quo bias (an actual cognitive problem) is so strong --- both for transgenerational reasons related to a colonized mind and because of poorly aligned incentives --- that they have lowered standards and definitions of excellence and success rather than rising to the challenge.

This is the sign of an intellectually and morally bankrupt nation. We need drastic, radical change soon. The amount of people who think incremental improvements will save the day or, worse, that the present 'new normal' is the best we can do are part of what I call the "mediocrity trap." They are responsible for the country's destruction.

A former COAS (very well respected) who I interviewed as part of my research described it perfectly: qualitative deterioration. The example he gave was simple yet profound: heaps of trash in various corners of Lahore Cantt. The Corps Commander, two GOCs, and many Brigs and lower all work and roam around there all day, yet it doesn't bother anyone enough to clean things up. The second example was the motorcyclists-must-wear-helmets rule. It is generally enforced, and there are checkposts at all Cantt entry points to ensure compliance, but every day you see at least a few motorcyclists without helmets. This should be unthinkable --- because rules are rules, and if you can't enforce excellence in a small, highly controlled area like Lahore Cantt, what hope do you have of overcoming highly complex challenges that require daring and cleverness in equal measure?

Enough said...?

Perhaps some barriers; how decision making Power is limited to senior officers/or state owned enterprise company managers; devolving power to junior officers, giving them the right to show initiative has been undermined by a lack of vision throughout the country. People walk on eggshells lest they offend someone who maybe in power in the next election, undoing the reforms of the last government.

Sun Tzu addressed this issue. “If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not throughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders are clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey. Then it is the fault of their officers”

People need a vision to be guided by and the freedom to show initiative, As has been seen in the East Asian tiger economies. China for example, saw what happened to the Soviets in the 70s and allowed Deng to make his reforms and then doubled down after Tiananmen because to not boldly push for maximum growth could risk the downfall of the regime. Perhaps those at the top are just too comfortable or don’t want to rock the boat, insulated from negative consequences if things don’t go well.

Btw, what’s the name of your thesis? and will it be for public reading soon? Sounds very interesting.

 

[TheSolution]

I dont think it would cost much, but would need backing from China.

I can never imagine such an action from Pakistan, especially not Bajwa, and what about international reactions, internal reactions?

 

[RealNapster]

Gen Bajwa expressed satisfaction over the operational preparedness of the army’s formations and safeguards in place for the defence of the country, a statement by the military's media wing said.

Apart from the fact that border fencing team was under attack for 5 hours (that's when all of them embraced shahadat) but no gunship or any other support arrived and same happened in Nushki and other places too ? Yah right.

 

[TheSolution]

Apart from the fact that border fencing team was under attack for 5 hours (that's when all of them embraced shahadat) but no gunship or any other support arrived and same happened in Nushki and other places too ? Yah right.

When did this happen? I thought 2 soldiers were kidnapped, and any other incidents were from BLA terrorist attacks...

 

[khansaheeb]

I say Nuke Zahedan or bandar abbas. What are the options right now? is babar enough to target bandar abbas? Let's hit them hard. We need American diplomatic assistance. time to run riot.

Maybe we should nuke your bandar ar$e.

 

[R Wing]

Army should let the village Afghans through that live on the border so there's no overlap and seal it.

I don't think one can seal it in any conventional way. Fencing does not equal sealing. There are tunnels, caves, thick forests, corruption among border posts, etc.

 

[Goritoes]

2 AA batteries can make more energy than these old heavy tummy Generals do in the conference, I think they should order the forward check posts to just defend themselves in case of Attack. Pre-emptive attacks ? or crossing the border ? Bhool jao aur jaan bachao.

 

[R Wing]

Perhaps some barriers; how decision making Power is limited to senior officers/or state owned enterprise company managers; devolving power to junior officers, giving them the right to show initiative has been undermined by a lack of vision throughout the country. People walk on eggshells lest they offend someone who maybe in power in the next election, undoing the reforms of the last government.

Sun Tzu addressed this issue. “If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not throughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders are clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey. Then it is the fault of their officers”

People need a vision to be guided by and the freedom to show initiative, As has been seen in the East Asian tiger economies. China for example, saw what happened to the Soviets in the 70s and allowed Deng to make his reforms and then doubled down after Tiananmen because to not boldly push for maximum growth could risk the downfall of the regime. Perhaps those at the top are just too comfortable or don’t want to rock the boat, insulated from negative consequences if things don’t go well.

Btw, what’s the name of your thesis? and will it be for public reading soon? Sounds very interesting.

It's funny that you ask --- we are supposed to nail down a (working) title by next Tuesday. I will definitely share it with you if you're interested.

I totally agree with what you're saying. In fact, the top-heavy 'yessir' culture de-incentivizes all forms of initiative and creativity. It creates a risk-averse atmosphere where original thinking is essentially punished.

The Israelis have implemented 360-degree evaluations for promotions --- meaning your 'under command' have as much, or at least a significant, say in your 'board' as your superiors. This dilutes the senior ***-kissing culture that is so prevalent here.

The other politically incorrect thing is that the quality of people going into the Fauj, civ service, etc., has drastically gone down over the past decades. It is great that the Army enables amazing social mobility in a classist country stuck on various identity politics (ethnicity/language, sect, socioeconomic status, etc.) --- but the downside is that lots of well-intentioned young cadets are really small minded. They have no idea what real international competition in an elite institutional is like. Most have never been out of Pak before. And suddenly, now that they're in PMA, they must converse in English and pretend to be 'gentlemen.' It's all very strange.

2 AA batteries can make more energy than these old heavy tummy Generals do in the conference, I think they should order the forward check posts to just defend themselves in case of Attack. Pre-emptive attacks ? or crossing the border ? Bhool jao aur jaan bachao.

The govt should pass a rule that generals have to rotate into these posts at random. That should improve the strategy.

Oh wait... by monopolizing power, GHQ essentially controls the government and all security-related decisionmaking.

 

[FuturePAF]

It's funny that you ask --- we are supposed to nail down a (working) title by next Tuesday. I will definitely share it with you if you're interested.

I totally agree with what you're saying. In fact, the top-heavy 'yessir' culture de-incentivizes all forms of initiative and creativity. It creates a risk-averse atmosphere where original thinking is essentially punished.

The Israelis have implemented 360-degree evaluations for promotions --- meaning your 'under command' have as much, or at least a significant, say in your 'board' as your superiors. This dilutes the senior ***-kissing culture that is so prevalent here.

The other politically incorrect thing is that the quality of people going into the Fauj, civ service, etc., has drastically gone down over the past decades. It is great that the Army enables amazing social mobility in a classist country stuck on various identity politics (ethnicity/language, sect, socioeconomic status, etc.) --- but the downside is that lots of well-intentioned young cadets are really small minded. They have no idea what real international competition in an elite institutional is like. Most have never been out of Pak before. And suddenly, now that they're in PMA, they must converse in English and pretend to be 'gentlemen.' It's all very strange.



The govt should pass a rule that generals have to rotate into these posts at random. That should improve the strategy.

Oh wait... by monopolizing power, GHQ essentially controls the government and all security-related decisionmaking.

Thanks, yes I would be interested in reading it. What needs to be understood is that those with well established share in the national economy stand to gain if the national economy grows, or the nation is more productive and competitive. When the pie grows, old money with prior investments benefits. It also takes the burden off of them to manage the country and they can better focus on managing their money, investing in the most productive parts of the economy.

It’s similar to the WASP elite allowing the best and brightest into the Ivy leagues to train and network the best minds America had access to.