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“Here in China, Hardly Anyone Still Believes in Karl Marx’s Ideas.”

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“Here in China, Hardly Anyone Still Believes in Karl Marx’s Ideas.” — A Travelogue
Dr. Rainier Zitelmann, a German historian and author, recently visited several cities in China. On the subject of economic freedom, the Chinese are bristling with confidence., he found.
Wednesday, March 4, 2020
Dr Rainer Zitelmann


The coastal province of Guangdong, with its capital Guangzhou, has traditionally been a pioneer of market reforms in China. Guangdong has a humid subtropical climate, which means the weather varies from warm to hot all year round. It is also China’s most populous province, home to more than 110 million people, and is famous for its unique spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship.

Deng Xiaoping, the chief architect of China’s economic reforms, visited the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone on the central coast of southern Guangdong province in January 1992. The interviews he gave attracted attention throughout China.

Deng, who became China’s paramount leader not long after Chairman Mao Zedong's death in 1976, spent five days in Shenzhen and was amazed to see just how much the city had changed since his last visit in 1984. He was impressed by grand boulevards, glass skyscrapers, bustling shopping streets, and an endless number of factories. People were dressed in the latest fashions, wore fancy wristwatches, had the latest cameras and other more expensive consumer goods.

Incomes in Shenzhen were three times higher than in the rest of China. Deng’s demonstrative Southern Tour went down in history and generated a huge amount of coverage in the Chinese media, who eagerly reported on Deng’s uncompromising criticism of internal opposition against his reform policies. One day before Deng’s return to Beijing, the People’s Daily ran a widely acclaimed editorial under the headline “Be Bolder In Reform.”

My Chinese publisher, who has published four of my books in China, invited me to visit Guangdong in December. This was the first time I had been back to the province since August 2018. During this trip, I was able to speak with representatives of a private think tank. The head of the think tank is a professor, who does not belong to the Communist Party or any of the other eight political “parties” in China.

“Perhaps we will be the last defenders of capitalism,” he observed at one point. He is just as bemused that socialist ideas are experiencing a renaissance in Europe and the United States as he is by the climate hysteria that is sweeping Germany: “Here in China, hardly anyone still believes in Karl Marx’s ideas.”

At no point during my ten days in China did I hear anyone talk about climate change, with the exception of a 21-year-old student who is vegan because she wants to do her bit for animal welfare and against climate change. Being a vegetarian myself, I was surprised by the large number of exceptional vegetarian restaurants, some of which have even been awarded coveted Michelin stars. There is no climate hysteria here, but there are more electric cars and electric scooters than I have ever seen in any city in Germany. As a pedestrian, this swarm of completely silent scooters can take some getting used to. You can easily find yourself in a dangerous situation if you are used to being alerted to fast moving vehicles by engine noises.

China is full of contradictions: I visited an Innovation and Entrepreneur Hub in Shenzhen, where young entrepreneurs work on cutting-edge robots and other state-of-the-art technologies, financed by venture capital firms and supported by the state.

As you walk in to the hub, you are greeted by the question “What’s NEXT?” rendered in huge letters—a callback to the company Steve Jobs founded after leaving Apple. The hub’s lobby features an exhibition of films and photos as testament to the modern entrepreneurial spirit, along with a photo of Karl Marx and the Communist Manifesto.

I was deeply impressed by the vibrant entrepreneurial spirit and hunger to advance and accumulate wealth that I encountered in China. On one occasion, I was invited to speak at Peking University HSBC Business School in Shenzhen. The timetabling of my talk was less than ideal: Friday evening at 7:30 p.m. Nevertheless, the room was full to bursting with over 800 students (the school has a total of 1,000 students enrolled). Some members of the audience even had to stand or perch on windowsills around the lecture hall because the seats were all taken.

My talk was on the subject of “The Seven Most Important Factors In Getting Rich.” How many students at Western universities would spend almost three hours on a Friday evening at a talk on how to get rich? I suspect that universities in Europe and the United States would be more enthusiastic about organizing lectures on the evils of capitalism, a topic that would, in turn, seem so quixotic to their Chinese peers.

During my Chinese tour, I was invited to speak in the cities of Shanghai, Shenzhen, and Guangzhou. One of the most striking features of my speaking engagements was the large proportion of women in the audience. Whenever I speak on financial and economic subjects in Germany, my audiences are overwhelmingly male. In China, it’s different. We know from surveys in Europe and the US that Western women are significantly less likely to aspire to get rich than their male counterparts. I haven’t seen any comparable surveys in China, but based on my firsthand experience, it would seem that at least as many women as men are interested in learning more about success and wealth.

It is frequently claimed that Asians have a collectivist mindset, while we in the West are commonly described as individualists. But such claims paint only part of the picture. In some respects, Chinese people today are actually more individualistic: Chinese women, for example, are not trying to improve their situation by demanding quotas and political reforms, but through individual striving for success, education and wealth.

I also spoke with some journalists while I was in China and not a single one questioned whether wealth is a legitimate objective to pursue, or insinuated that the wealthy are shallow and superficial. Everywhere I went, people just wanted to know how to get rich. No one I met turned their noses up at entrepreneurship and the pursuit of wealth.

In fact, entrepreneurs such as Steve Jobs and Jack Ma are revered; in the office of one private think tank, the walls were lined with oversized photos of Jobs and Ma.

One of the things I was most surprised by was how badly most Chinese people speak English, despite the country’s increasing openness to the outside world. At the reception desk of a Hampton by Hilton hotel, not a single employee spoke English, nor did the taxi drivers. So a taxi ride can easily become its own little adventure because it is all but impossible to communicate with the driver. Even in international airports and upscale hotels, many Chinese employees speak little or no English. It was only in hotels such as the impressive Four Seasons in Guangzhou that employees could communicate fluently in English. And yet, even at the Hilton in Shenzhen, most of the receptionists spoke little more than broken English. And lots of young Chinese entrepreneurs also speak little or no English because they are so strongly focused on their home market.

Still, the situation wasn’t all that different during my youth in Germany—if anything, general English skills have only really improved over the last decade or two.

With numerous interlocutors, I was also able to engage in honest and critical discussions about the lack of political freedom and limits on freedom of opinion in modern China. One of the scientists I met had lived in the US for several years and admitted that there are very narrow limits to freedom of expression in China—especially when it comes to criticizing the political system or the country’s leaders. On the other hand, he was equally disturbed by the widespread political correctness he had encountered at universities in America, where a single “wrong” utterance could quickly be interpreted as sexist or racist and potentially lead to the immediate end of a person’s career.

On the subject of economic freedom, however, the Chinese are bristling with confidence. Several of the experts I spoke with told me that any comparison of state regulation in the EU and in the Guangdong area would probably come down in favor of Guangdong. Unfortunately, only a handful of well-informed insiders know both systems well enough to appreciate this. Most students, as became clear in the discussions that followed my talks, overestimate the degree of economic freedom in the US and Europe, just as Americans and Europeans overestimate the influence of the state on the Chinese economy.

According to a paper published by the World Economic Forum:

China’s private sector—which has been revving up since the global financial crisis—is now serving as the main driver of China’s economic growth. The combination of numbers 60/70/80/90 are frequently used to describe the private sector’s contribution to the Chinese economy: they contribute 60% of China’s GDP, and are responsible for 70% of innovation, 80% of urban employment and provide 90% of new jobs. Private wealth is also responsible for 70% of investment and 90% of exports.

Thus, whenever Western politicians cite the rise of China as an argument for greater reliance on the state in the United States or Europe, their line of reasoning is nothing short of absurd.

https://fee.org/articles/here-in-ch...l-believes-in-karl-marx-s-ideas-a-travelogue/
 
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“Here in China, Hardly Anyone Still Believes in Karl Marx’s Ideas.” — A Travelogue
Dr. Rainier Zitelmann, a German historian and author, recently visited several cities in China. On the subject of economic freedom, the Chinese are bristling with confidence., he found.
Wednesday, March 4, 2020
Dr Rainer Zitelmann


The coastal province of Guangdong, with its capital Guangzhou, has traditionally been a pioneer of market reforms in China. Guangdong has a humid subtropical climate, which means the weather varies from warm to hot all year round. It is also China’s most populous province, home to more than 110 million people, and is famous for its unique spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship.

Deng Xiaoping, the chief architect of China’s economic reforms, visited the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone on the central coast of southern Guangdong province in January 1992. The interviews he gave attracted attention throughout China.

Deng, who became China’s paramount leader not long after Chairman Mao Zedong's death in 1976, spent five days in Shenzhen and was amazed to see just how much the city had changed since his last visit in 1984. He was impressed by grand boulevards, glass skyscrapers, bustling shopping streets, and an endless number of factories. People were dressed in the latest fashions, wore fancy wristwatches, had the latest cameras and other more expensive consumer goods.

Incomes in Shenzhen were three times higher than in the rest of China. Deng’s demonstrative Southern Tour went down in history and generated a huge amount of coverage in the Chinese media, who eagerly reported on Deng’s uncompromising criticism of internal opposition against his reform policies. One day before Deng’s return to Beijing, the People’s Daily ran a widely acclaimed editorial under the headline “Be Bolder In Reform.”

My Chinese publisher, who has published four of my books in China, invited me to visit Guangdong in December. This was the first time I had been back to the province since August 2018. During this trip, I was able to speak with representatives of a private think tank. The head of the think tank is a professor, who does not belong to the Communist Party or any of the other eight political “parties” in China.

“Perhaps we will be the last defenders of capitalism,” he observed at one point. He is just as bemused that socialist ideas are experiencing a renaissance in Europe and the United States as he is by the climate hysteria that is sweeping Germany: “Here in China, hardly anyone still believes in Karl Marx’s ideas.”

At no point during my ten days in China did I hear anyone talk about climate change, with the exception of a 21-year-old student who is vegan because she wants to do her bit for animal welfare and against climate change. Being a vegetarian myself, I was surprised by the large number of exceptional vegetarian restaurants, some of which have even been awarded coveted Michelin stars. There is no climate hysteria here, but there are more electric cars and electric scooters than I have ever seen in any city in Germany. As a pedestrian, this swarm of completely silent scooters can take some getting used to. You can easily find yourself in a dangerous situation if you are used to being alerted to fast moving vehicles by engine noises.

China is full of contradictions: I visited an Innovation and Entrepreneur Hub in Shenzhen, where young entrepreneurs work on cutting-edge robots and other state-of-the-art technologies, financed by venture capital firms and supported by the state.

As you walk in to the hub, you are greeted by the question “What’s NEXT?” rendered in huge letters—a callback to the company Steve Jobs founded after leaving Apple. The hub’s lobby features an exhibition of films and photos as testament to the modern entrepreneurial spirit, along with a photo of Karl Marx and the Communist Manifesto.

I was deeply impressed by the vibrant entrepreneurial spirit and hunger to advance and accumulate wealth that I encountered in China. On one occasion, I was invited to speak at Peking University HSBC Business School in Shenzhen. The timetabling of my talk was less than ideal: Friday evening at 7:30 p.m. Nevertheless, the room was full to bursting with over 800 students (the school has a total of 1,000 students enrolled). Some members of the audience even had to stand or perch on windowsills around the lecture hall because the seats were all taken.

My talk was on the subject of “The Seven Most Important Factors In Getting Rich.” How many students at Western universities would spend almost three hours on a Friday evening at a talk on how to get rich? I suspect that universities in Europe and the United States would be more enthusiastic about organizing lectures on the evils of capitalism, a topic that would, in turn, seem so quixotic to their Chinese peers.

During my Chinese tour, I was invited to speak in the cities of Shanghai, Shenzhen, and Guangzhou. One of the most striking features of my speaking engagements was the large proportion of women in the audience. Whenever I speak on financial and economic subjects in Germany, my audiences are overwhelmingly male. In China, it’s different. We know from surveys in Europe and the US that Western women are significantly less likely to aspire to get rich than their male counterparts. I haven’t seen any comparable surveys in China, but based on my firsthand experience, it would seem that at least as many women as men are interested in learning more about success and wealth.

It is frequently claimed that Asians have a collectivist mindset, while we in the West are commonly described as individualists. But such claims paint only part of the picture. In some respects, Chinese people today are actually more individualistic: Chinese women, for example, are not trying to improve their situation by demanding quotas and political reforms, but through individual striving for success, education and wealth.

I also spoke with some journalists while I was in China and not a single one questioned whether wealth is a legitimate objective to pursue, or insinuated that the wealthy are shallow and superficial. Everywhere I went, people just wanted to know how to get rich. No one I met turned their noses up at entrepreneurship and the pursuit of wealth.

In fact, entrepreneurs such as Steve Jobs and Jack Ma are revered; in the office of one private think tank, the walls were lined with oversized photos of Jobs and Ma.

One of the things I was most surprised by was how badly most Chinese people speak English, despite the country’s increasing openness to the outside world. At the reception desk of a Hampton by Hilton hotel, not a single employee spoke English, nor did the taxi drivers. So a taxi ride can easily become its own little adventure because it is all but impossible to communicate with the driver. Even in international airports and upscale hotels, many Chinese employees speak little or no English. It was only in hotels such as the impressive Four Seasons in Guangzhou that employees could communicate fluently in English. And yet, even at the Hilton in Shenzhen, most of the receptionists spoke little more than broken English. And lots of young Chinese entrepreneurs also speak little or no English because they are so strongly focused on their home market.

Still, the situation wasn’t all that different during my youth in Germany—if anything, general English skills have only really improved over the last decade or two.

With numerous interlocutors, I was also able to engage in honest and critical discussions about the lack of political freedom and limits on freedom of opinion in modern China. One of the scientists I met had lived in the US for several years and admitted that there are very narrow limits to freedom of expression in China—especially when it comes to criticizing the political system or the country’s leaders. On the other hand, he was equally disturbed by the widespread political correctness he had encountered at universities in America, where a single “wrong” utterance could quickly be interpreted as sexist or racist and potentially lead to the immediate end of a person’s career.

On the subject of economic freedom, however, the Chinese are bristling with confidence. Several of the experts I spoke with told me that any comparison of state regulation in the EU and in the Guangdong area would probably come down in favor of Guangdong. Unfortunately, only a handful of well-informed insiders know both systems well enough to appreciate this. Most students, as became clear in the discussions that followed my talks, overestimate the degree of economic freedom in the US and Europe, just as Americans and Europeans overestimate the influence of the state on the Chinese economy.

According to a paper published by the World Economic Forum:

China’s private sector—which has been revving up since the global financial crisis—is now serving as the main driver of China’s economic growth. The combination of numbers 60/70/80/90 are frequently used to describe the private sector’s contribution to the Chinese economy: they contribute 60% of China’s GDP, and are responsible for 70% of innovation, 80% of urban employment and provide 90% of new jobs. Private wealth is also responsible for 70% of investment and 90% of exports.

Thus, whenever Western politicians cite the rise of China as an argument for greater reliance on the state in the United States or Europe, their line of reasoning is nothing short of absurd.

https://fee.org/articles/here-in-ch...l-believes-in-karl-marx-s-ideas-a-travelogue/
Yeah.bcs ur IQ is low, so u dont understand what Marx said.

Thats why CN is in chaos in 2023 as I predicted cos ur IQ is low while communist VN is still ok, only running out of raw materials and we have to find those material from other third world nations while CN closed the border.:cool:
 
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Karl Marx was most powerful in his role as a critic. He exposed capitalism in all its naked horror, including its inherent contradictions, capture of surplus value, monopolization of productive forces, condensation of wealth in ever-smaller pockets of society, exploitation of labor and proletariat, bourgeois culture of deception and hypocrisy. His critique is totally irrefutable ― we can see the evidence today in the USA, the decaying empire, where a bunch of charlatans, grifters, hustlers, rogues, parasites, rent-seekers, etc. have amassed billions and so constitute the thin layer of the ruling class, all the while the average American couldn't scrounge up the funds to pay a $100 speeding fine, let alone a $3000 coronavirus test. This is no different from the last days of Rome.

Where Marx falls short is his proposals for a solution. Obviously in hindsight, his cherished example of the Paris Commune cannot be a model for all humanity. But its enough that Marx identified the problem with lucid precision ― his work in that respect is invaluable. After that, praxis has to come in. China has, since 1949, 70 years to fine tune a socialist system that is fair, prosperous, efficient, disciplined, and able not only to defend itself from the predatory intentions of global capitalism, but even to strike back. We didn't discard Marx, we built on him, but our goal remains the same.

Thats why CN is in chaos in 2023 as I predicted cos ur IQ is low while communist VN is still ok ...

VN is not any more communist than CN. Doi Moi is just a copy of Deng's reform and opening up, and it continues the long historical tradition of little brother VN following in the footsteps of its big brother.
 
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Doi Moi is just a copy of Deng's reform and opening up, and it continues the long historical tradition of little brother VN following in the footsteps of its big brother.

Doi Moi is not a copy, it is actually a failure, as it has completely transformed Vietnam's society to dystopia and failed to capture any value.

Huawei was founded in 1987, 9 years after reform. SMIC was founded in 2000, in the 22nd year after reform.

Today is 34th year of Doi Moi, where is Vietnamese SMIC? Vietnamese Huawei?

That is what happens when you betray your values.
 
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Today is 34th year of Doi Moi, where is Vietnamese SMIC? Vietnamese Huawei?
I am not Vietnamese, but they have Viettel, Yes, it is smaller in scale, but it works.
I was in Vietnam last summer and I won’t say that their society has become dystopian.
 
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Doi Moi is not a copy, it is actually a failure, as it has completely transformed Vietnam's society to dystopia and failed to capture any value.

Huawei was founded in 1987, 9 years after reform. SMIC was founded in 2000, in the 22nd year after reform.

Today is 34th year of Doi Moi, where is Vietnamese SMIC? Vietnamese Huawei?

That is what happens when you betray your values.

Viet internationally recognised industrial giants: Vinfast, whatever company make 'BPhone'

:p:
 
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K

VN is not any more communist than CN. Doi Moi is just a copy of Deng's reform and opening up, and it continues the long historical tradition of little brother VN following in the footsteps of its big brother.
Doi Moi mean we use Lenin new economy policy, and Deng copied it from Lenin.

In CN, no one teach u abt Lenin new economy policy ?? Thats pathetic, stop copying from the others and say it yours:lol:

I am not Vietnamese, but they have Viettel, Yes, it is smaller in scale, but it works.
I was in Vietnam last summer and I won’t say that their society has become dystopian.
Cnese is short sighted ppl and love living in delusion. They learned Nothing from 2003 Sars, so now, they pay very high price for corona virus.

CN is collapsing like Soviet, not bcs Marx was wrong, but bcs both Soviet-CN r not smart enough to defeat US .
 
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Where Marx falls short is his proposals for a solution. Obviously in hindsight, his cherished example of the Paris Commune cannot be a model for all humanity. But its enough that Marx identified the problem with lucid precision ― his work in that respect is invaluable.
No, it is not invaluable.

When you complain about something, if you do not at least propose a FEASIBLE solution, what can people do but to continue with the current situation? So far, no one have a feasible alternative to capitalism.

We didn't discard Marx, we built on him, but our goal remains the same.
Absolutely you discarded Marx. You 'built' on Marx? How? Where? Functional?
 
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who eagerly reported on Deng’s uncompromising criticism of internal opposition against his reform policies.
I encourage readers to look up for themselves to whose political factions those critics belonged, and where they are now.

Deng's decision to rehabilitate the pro-Soviet Shaanxi soviet people was a grave mistake. Mao, for once, was right to quash them, and other lunatical proponents of turning CPC into a carbon copy of CPSU.

I am not vindicating one of the two, both Mao and Shaanxi gang were equally bad for the country, each for its own reason.
VN is not any more communist than CN. Doi Moi is just a copy of Deng's reform and opening up, and it continues the long historical tradition of little brother VN following in the footsteps of its big brother.
Vietnames Doimoi, while officially starting in 1986, actually started in months preceding Vietnamese 6th plenum of 4th central committee in 1978. Unlike Deng, Le had very little opposition to economic reform, at least nothing on a scale of attempts at ousting him from power (Which Deng survived at least three.)
Karl Marx was most powerful in his role as a critic. He exposed capitalism in all its naked horror, including its inherent contradictions, capture of surplus value, monopolization of productive forces, condensation of wealth in ever-smaller pockets of society, exploitation of labor and proletariat, bourgeois culture of deception and hypocrisy. His critique is totally irrefutable ― we can see the evidence today in the USA, the decaying empire, where a bunch of charlatans, grifters, hustlers, rogues, parasites, rent-seekers, etc. have amassed billions and so constitute the thin layer of the ruling class, all the while the average American couldn't scrounge up the funds to pay a $100 speeding fine, let alone a $3000 coronavirus test. This is no different from the last days of Rome.
Can only add that 12 years of near free money was the last nail for US. Now it is a very skewed economy, living off mostly debt fuelled speculation. The atmosphere for people doing something real is very stiffing. It has nothing to show to people not working as bean counters, lawyers or MBAs.

The recent US growth spurt was just a consequence of even larger employment of the printing press, and lowering tax. When the next big crisis will come, US will finally get hit for real. Even a run on the dollar may be not out of question.

I had an alternative to have a comfy life in the West if I really wanted so. I lived 6 years in Canada, and had to leave because my last employer screwed up with work permit. I though for myself, will returning back ever worth life in a very uneventful economy, where I will have to save up to my mid-thirties, forties to do something real? And I though no.

Now I am not so sure about China too. I'm afraid we are beginning to slide back into madness of seventies again. If things will get too bad in China, I don't excluded me having to vote with my feet again as a possible outcome.
 
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Vietnames Doimoi, while officially starting in 1986, actually started in months preceding Vietnamese 6th plenum of 4th central committee in 1978. Unlike Deng, Le had very little opposition to economic reform, at least nothing on a scale of attempts at ousting him from power (Which Deng survived at least three.)

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Doi is change, Moi is new. Doi Moi is Change to new policy, like Lenin using new economy policy . While Deng's policy is licking US-Jap azz for money, and its so terrible for CN now. CN economy is crashing in trade war, nCov. Hoping EU will buy Hwei 5G also falied cos EU nid much more med kits/mask than 5G.

If Deng was ousted, then CN would still get help from VN abt how to defeat US and CN may not look so pathetic now when trade war alone is enough to make CN collapse like Soviet (of course VN only want CN collapse after 1979 war).

Cnese r just too idiot, just look at what happening in CN, ppl will realize that CN learned No lesson from 2003 Sars so they have to pay very high price for this nCOv.

Marx was not wrong, if CN collapse, then u guys'd better blame urself cos ur Q is too low to find out the way to defeat US and also the way to avoid the next pademic.:cool:
 
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I am not Vietnamese, but they have Viettel, Yes, it is smaller in scale, but it works.
I was in Vietnam last summer and I won’t say that their society has become dystopian.

Viettel is a telecom service provider, all countries that have phones at all (i.e. every single country, even Congo and Somalia) have a telecom service provider. Most of them just follow SOPs written by the telecom hardware OEMs.

So Vietnam has nothing to show for Doi Moi except dystopian poverty and a weak backwards economy.
 
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Doi is change, Moi is new. Doi Moi is Change to new policy, like Lenin using new economy policy . While Deng's policy is licking US-Jap azz for money, and its so terrible for CN now. CN economy is crashing in trade war, nCov. Hoping EU will buy Hwei 5G also falied cos EU nid much more med kits/mask than 5G.

If Deng was ousted, then CN would still get help from VN abt how to defeat US and CN may not look so pathetic now when trade war alone is enough to make CN collapse like Soviet (of course VN only want CN collapse after 1979 war).

Cnese r just too idiot, just look at what happening in CN, ppl will realize that CN learned No lesson from 2003 Sars so they have to pay very high price for this nCOv.

Marx was not wrong, if CN collapse, then u guys'd better blame urself cos ur Q is too low to find out the way to defeat US and also the way to avoid the next pademic.:cool:
Viettel is a telecom service provider, all countries that have phones at all (i.e. every single country, even Congo and Somalia) have a telecom service provider. Most of them just follow SOPs written by the telecom hardware OEMs.

So Vietnam has nothing to show for Doi Moi except dystopian poverty and a weak backwards economy.
Are you guys all right? You are like two sides of the same coin. And this coin is insanity.
 
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Now I am not so sure about China too. I'm afraid we are beginning to slide back into madness of seventies again. If things will get too bad in China, I don't excluded me having to vote with my feet again as a possible outcome.

Unlikely. Why so pessimistic?
 
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Are you guys all right? You are like two sides of the same coin. And this coin is insanity.

How dare you compare me to him. I use standard English, he doesn't. I also provide sources for everything I claim except when the other party shows no interest in a rational discussion. I don't think he has ever used sources. Finally, I never curse and always use proper etiquette on this forum, while you can see how low his level of discussion is.

If you have any problems with what I wrote let me know and I'll provide a source. Until then please refrain from comparing me to him, it is like comparing a Greco-Roman statue to a 3 year olds finger painting.
 
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Unlikely. Why so pessimistic?
U r not in CN, so u dont know is so Pathetic in CN now.

There r abt 500 Cnese paying high money, trying to sneak into VN after nCov outbreak now ( of course thousands to million rich Cnese also trying to flee to other nations). They have money, and they dont want to die in CN while those Cnese on this forum r just too poor to get out of CN, so they can do Nothing but barking louder on internet to ease their fear.
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Use google trans if u care

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Gần 500 người từ vùng dịch Covid-19 đến TP.HCM qua nước thứ 3
491 người Trung Quốc đã đi qua nước thứ 3 như Campuchia, Singapore, Thái Lan, Malaysia trước khi nhập cảnh vào Việt Nam qua sân bay Tân Sơn Nhất.

https://news.zing.vn/gan-500-nguoi-tu-vung-dich-covid-19-den-tphcm-qua-nuoc-thu-3-post1055035.html
 
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