Hajj stampede beyond human control, 'destiny is inevitable', says top Saudi cleric

[Hussein]

everything is at god will. not you or anyone can change that.

and Asad killing lot of innocent people is god will too then pfff
hopefully u get that this kind of word is making us look retards to the world

hajj is for all Muslims to do . but god gave us the right to guard it.not you or any other country can touch that both religiously or logistically. so keep dreaming

but if you are unable to secure the place and manage it
then you need help
and by international organization i mean international, not Iran (lol)

 

[KTOOOOM]

why does this matter? you said no such incident happened in over 20 years i just proved it happened 9 years ago.
from what your saying you were part of the police, is this true?

it does matter because it rarely happens.

 

[Viny]

The Saudis must call for an OIC summit to discuss making Hajj an OIC affair where all Muslim nations deploy personnel and eqpt during Hajj.

I do not understand how that works.

Nor am I getting into the whole vexed "Islam does not only belong to the Arabs" debate here.

What the Haj means to a Muslim, regardless of where in the world he comes from, is one thing.

But the fact of the matter is that the holy sites are within the borders of a sovereign nation.

Theoretically, tomorrow were they to refuse entry to Muslims from a particular nation, or stop the Haj for none Saudis altogether, short of all out war there is nothing anyone could do about it.

Hope this does not ruffle feathers unnecessarily, where no ruffling was intended.

Cheers, Doc

Extending the thought lines towards making something like Vatican for Muslim world, which is supported and Managed by OIC. A collective responsibility with diverse resources. It would be a tough ground to build, but then it would atleast ensure that no one holds Islam as there property.

Sorry to say, but the way commercialization has taken place next to the holy monument it beats the whole purpose of Hajj and kind of feeling that it should generate.

 

[KTOOOOM]

why does this matter? you said no such incident happened in over 20 years i just proved it happened 9 years ago.
from what your saying you were part of the police, is this true?

it does matter because it rarely happens.

and Asad killing lot of innocent people is god will too then pfff
hopefully u get that this kind of word is making us look retards to the world


but if you are unable to secure the place and manage it
then you need help
and by international organization i mean international, not Iran (lol)

what does Assad have to do with this are you mentally ill or just blabbering rubbish.
as i told you we don't need your help or any other .our country our rules go cry and lash yourself in karbla

 

[vsdoc]

Extending the thought lines towards making something like Vatican for Muslim world, which is supported and Managed by OIC. A collective responsibility with diverse resources. It would be a tough ground to build, but then it would atleast ensure that no one holds Islam as there property.

Sorry to say, but the way commercialization has taken place next to the holy monument it beats the whole purpose of Hajj and kind of feeling that it should generate.

Please explain the Vatican example?

Christianity did not originate in the Vatican.

Islam originated in Mecca and Medina.

Where Christianity originated, Jerusalem, has been the site of bloody battles of control for more than two millennia, continuing incidentally to this day.

In my opinion, it would take nothing less to wrest the Haj from the Saudis.

 

[CIS-TRANS]

Saudis simply proved ridiculous on managing Hajj this time.. plus their ignorant behavior is more disturbing.. other muslim countries need to step up their involvement in this event.. Saudia alone simply can't handle it.

 

[KTOOOOM]

Please explain the Vatican example?

Christianity did not originate in the Vatican.

Islam originated in Mecca and Medina.

Where Christianity originated, Jerusalem, has been the site of bloody battles of control for more than two millennia, continuing incidentally to this day.

In my opinion, it would take nothing less to wrest the Haj from the Saudis.

people tried to conquer us and in return we conquered them history never change.

Saudis simply proved ridiculous on managing Hajj this time.. plus their ignorant behavior is more disturbing.. other muslim countries need to step up their involvement in this event.. Saudia alone simply can't handle it.

it is what it is. you don't like don't come here it is our business not yours.

 

[vsdoc]

people tried to conquer us and in return we conquered them history never change.

I'm assuming you mean the Persians?

 

[KTOOOOM]

I'm assuming you mean the Persians?

all of them. roman,Persian,crusades habsha,......

 

[Viny]

Please explain the Vatican example?

Christianity did not originate in the Vatican.

Islam originated in Mecca and Medina.

Where Christianity originated, Jerusalem, has been the site of bloody battles of control for more than two millennia, continuing incidentally to this day.

In my opinion, it would take nothing less to wrest the Haj from the Saudis.

I am talking from the point of view how vatican city is a country within a country Italy.
Where Italy provides the defense related support, still Italy has no role in regard the head of state and administration.
Similarly if Mecca and Medina can be carved out as a special land, which will have its own administration which doesnt have to deal with any political or regional biasness. Which is supported by OIC and initially managed by OIC, which later on builds up its own self management system which is externally supported by OIC and is based on commonly agreed principles of working.

Well for sure Saudis are not going to give it away unless rest of OIC comes up with some grand plan.

 

[vsdoc]

I am talking from the point of view how vatican city is a country within a country Italy.
Where Italy provides the defense related support, still Italy has no role in regard the head of state and administration.
Similarly if Mecca and Medina can be carved out as a special land, which will have its own administration which doesnt have to deal with any political or regional biasness. Which is supported by OIC and initially managed by OIC, which later on builds up its own self management system which is externally supported by OIC and is based on commonly agreed principles of working.

Well for sure Saudis are not going to give it away unless rest of OIC comes up with some grand plan.

I understand what you meant. The concept. Its the same as many non-Saudi Muslims here and on other threads have been proposing.

But look at it from the point of views of the Sauds.

Jesus Christ was not a Roman. In fact he was crucified by Romans.

Muhammad on the other hand was from the people of Mecca and Medina. The Sauds of today. Who would (and do) claim direct lineage.

The emotional connect between the two is very different.

 

[Madali]

I am talking from the point of view how vatican city is a country within a country Italy.
Where Italy provides the defense related support, still Italy has no role in regard the head of state and administration.
Similarly if Mecca and Medina can be carved out as a special land, which will have its own administration which doesnt have to deal with any political or regional biasness. Which is supported by OIC and initially managed by OIC, which later on builds up its own self management system which is externally supported by OIC and is based on commonly agreed principles of working.

Well for sure Saudis are not going to give it away unless rest of OIC comes up with some grand plan.

Vatican works because all Catholics are supposed to be answerable to the Pope. In Islam, we don't yet have a "Pope" or Head Imam or whatever. So its unrealistic until there is a unified Muslim force.

 

[vsdoc]

Vatican works because all Catholics are supposed to be answerable to the Pope. In Islam, we don't yet have a "Pope" or Head Imam or whatever. So its unrealistic until there is a unified Muslim force.

The Vatican represents only one sect of Christianity.

 

[Madali]

The Vatican represents only one sect of Christianity.

Yeah, that's why I said Catholics. That's also another reason the comparison is not correct. Non-Catholics don't have any religious, emotional, or scripture ties to Vatican, so a Protestant does not care that Vatican is under the Catholics.

 

[vsdoc]

Yeah, that's why I said Catholics. That's also another reason the comparison is not correct. Non-Catholics don't have any religious, emotional, or scripture ties to Vatican, so a Protestant does not care that Vatican is under the Catholics.

If one would want to compare, then Jersualem would be the correct comparison geographically.

I understand there is a similar hill there as well?