Gowind or FCX-30 (Doha Class)?

[Foinikas]

The Hellenic Navy and government got the final offers from Fincantieri and Naval Group,trying to decide which corvette to buy. It seems it's a tough choice,as the Navy says both deals are great. I might need @Akritas help here with some information and details.

Right now,the Greek defence sites and their fans,are divided into pro-Doha class and pro-Gowind. Some claim,the French already got enough deals (the FDI HN,the Rafale etc.)and we should choose the Italian offer. Others say,Gowind's biggest advantage is its compatibility with the FDI HN and that the French know what the Navy needs way better than the Italians,because of the cooperation between Naval Group and the Hellenic Navy.

The ships:

The Italians offer the FCX-30 with 76mm STRALES gun,16-32 CAMM-ER (the Navy can choose either 16,24 or 32 and they can install the VLS),8 anti-ship missiles,RAM,Kronos AESA radar,ATHENA combat system,CAPTAS-2 sonar and if we insist,they said they can install a Kingclip sonar as well in the front and also come with an ECM installed (I think Nettuno 4100).

The French offer the Gowind HN with Leonard 76mm gun(no Strales),16 MICA VL/NG,8 Exocet Block 3c,RAM,NS-100 Radar,Captas 2 and Kinglip and a basic ESM.


Some of the advantages and disadvantages that people have been fighting about:

The Italians give Strales,but the French don't. The Kronos radar is supposedly better than the NS-100.

The FCX-30 can install up to 32 CAMM-ER with are cheaper and have better range than the MICA VL. The Italians also let us choose if we want Exocet,NSM or some other anti-ship missile.

The Gowind HN has better ASW capabilities by having two sonars and a combined diesel and electric propulsion system.

The Italians said they can install a Kinglip if we want,but there were fears this could make the ship slower. However,the Italians said there would be no problems with the ship's speed or maneuverability.

Both ships have a speed of 28 knots,supposedly.

The FCX-30 comes with an ECM,but the Gowind doesn't. The Navy though,hadn't asked for an ECM as a requierement.

The Gowind HN though come with SETIS combat system,the same one with the FDI HN.

Now,I'll leave the details of the deal extras to Akritas,if he wants to write them down. About the shipyards,the payment,the tech transfer and cooperation etc.



Which one would YOU choose?

 

[Akritas]

Gowind HN

• The displacement will be 2,800 tons and a speed of 25 knots.
• CODLOD (COMbined Diesel-eLectric Or Diesel) propulsion, with diesel engines but also an electric motor, which will also be used when the ship hunts submarines
• VDS CAPTAS-2 and HMS Kingklip Mk2
• MU90 torpedoes
• RAM
• CANTO and SYLENA Mk2 countermeasures
• Thalis NS 100 Radar
• SETIS combat system
• R-ESM and C-ESM
• 16 MICA
• 8 EXOCET BLOCK IIIC
• OTO MELARA 76mm gun
• UAV and MH-60R Helicopter

FCx-30HN

• The displacement will be 3,300 tons and a speed of 28 knots.
• CODAD propulsion
• VDS CAPTAS-2 or VDS WASS ATAS and HMS Kingklip Mk2
• SYLENA Mk2 countermeasures
• MU90 torpedoes
• RAM
• CRONOS Radar
• ATHENA combat system
• R-ESM and C-ESM
• Nettuno 4100 ECM
• Super Rapid 76mm gun
• Strales
• 2 Marlin 30mm
• 16 CAMMER or 16 MICA or 32 ESSM Block II.
• 8 EXOCET BLOCK IIIC
• UAV and MH-60R Helicopter

 

[Foinikas]

These are the official Best and Final Offer stats,right?

 

[SQ8]

You’re probably going to end up with the French - they are vociferously opposed to the Turks being anything close to Europe and have a rampant Islamophobic streak ongoing - hence they were willing to push the Rafale’s through and will likely finance the Gowind.

Better to take advantage of that emotional french crusader

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

French product is the logical choice for Greece. Frenchies are legendary level Islamophobe which will help Greece against Turks.

 

[Bilal9]

You’re probably going to end up with the French - they are vociferously opposed to the Turks being anything close to Europe and have a rampant Islamophobic streak ongoing - hence they were willing to push the Rafale’s through and will likely finance the Gowind.

Better to take advantage of that emotional french crusader

I think the French suffered at the hands of supposed attackers too.

Perverts opposed to decency loving people. I mean, they have a problem with a Burkini - what can you say....

Pepe Lepew is the stereotyped depiction in the US of overly amorous (tharki) Frenchman and smelly Frenchman who doesn't take a bath.

Back to Gowind class, I prefer Italian products (Fincantieri, Oto Melara) rather than French. Their stuff works better. If the French want to be cozy with Indians and Greek folks, fine and dandy. The only regret is that gulf countries like UAE, Qatar (Doha Class) keeps buying from the French without thinking.

The tide maybe changing though....Xi Jin Ping is in Saudi and they accorded him a welcome better than any head of state. The Chinese will buy oil in Yuan now. And Gulfies can return those Yuans for Chinese products. Like more sophisticated corvettes which are approaching Gowind standards very fast.

 

[Akritas]

Gowinds have very high ASW capabilities with dual high performance sonars, MU-90 torpedoes, electric propulsion, MH-60R organic helicopter. More generally, they are an ideal companion ship to the FDI HN, functioning complementary and maximizing their capabilities, exploiting target data from the long range of the FDI's Seafire and CAPTAS 4 Compact. Finally Navalgives us faster delivery times.

FCx-30HN have more sufficient AAW capabilities, high ASW capabilities(if Ficantieri install HMS Kingklip Mk2, Doha class hasn't HMS), better Radars and EW systems, flexible Compat System. It is a larger ship, which means it can accept other systems in the future.

Beyond their operational advantages, there is also the political issue. Their acquisition confirms and expands the Greek-French alliance by creating a "French" in the Hellenic Navy body for the next decades, as well as the cooperation with the Naval Group. In the future, the cooperation with the French shipyards may be extended by building an EPC French configuration with additional weapons and SETIS or even by building an FDI HN XL.

It should be noted that in the final recommendations of the Greek Navy, the main criterion was the building of the ships in our country either by the shipyards of Elefsina or Skaramangas, while another option is the Shipyards of the Spanopoulos Group.And this is because there was a clear government order for at least three of the four(or two of the three) corvettes to be built in Greece.

 

[Foinikas]

You’re probably going to end up with the French - they are vociferously opposed to the Turks being anything close to Europe and have a rampant Islamophobic streak ongoing - hence they were willing to push the Rafale’s through and will likely finance the Gowind.

Better to take advantage of that emotional french crusader

French product is the logical choice for Greece. Frenchies are legendary level Islamophobe which will help Greece against Turks.

For legendary Islamophobes,they have a very big muslim population in their country

Anyway,the thing is the French were the only country that supported us back in 2019-2020. For those who don't know what happened back then,it was when Cyprus wanted to drill for oil and gas and Turks threatened with war,Erdogan started an attempt to send tens of thousands of immigrants,refugees by force in the land borders at Evros and there were frequent incidents between the two Navies and coast guards in the Aegea,ships colliding etc.

The French Total was given fields to look for oil and gas inside the Cypriot EEZ,but the whole thing was postponed.Also when a French Navy frigate tried to search a ship going to Libya,escorted by a Turkish frigate,the Turkish frigate targeted the French one three times. Back then,the war in Libya was going on and there was an embargo on weapons. Apart from all that,Erdogan kept calling Macron various names in speeches and interviews,mocking him.

So,the French decided to support us.

Meanwhile,the Germans were pro-Turkish and didn't say a word,the Italians and Spanish didn't care much,the British were in their own world and the Americans supported us,but not as much as the French.

From what I see,they will probably select the Gowind HN.

Check out Naval Group's post today:

To be honest,I wish we could buy both ships. I wish we could buy 3 FCX-30 HN and 2 or 3 Gowind HN. But that would cost a lot of money. The budget is extremely tight. But again,we have to decide the future of the Navy. We have to retire some 9 Kortaener frigates and some 12 FAC (if we retire the Combattante).

FDI HN XL.

What's the FDI HN XL? I read it in some comments online,but I don't know what's it about.

 

[Akritas]

What's the FDI HN XL? I read it in some comments online,but I don't know what's it about.

This one....

• 5500 tn
• better engine, speed 30 knots,
• 64 ASTER 30 missiles(4 x 2A50) or 32 Scalp Naval(2 x 2A70) and 32 Aster 30(2 x 2A50)
• 16 Exocet Block IIIC, but only with 48 cells of AAW missiles
• gun 127 mm
  
  
  

 

[Foinikas]

This one....

• 5500 tn
• better engine, speed 30 knots,
• 64 ASTER 30 missiles(4 x 2A50) or 32 Scalp Naval(2 x 2A70) and 32 Aster 30(2 x 2A50)
• 16 Exocet Block IIIC, but only with 48 cells of AAW missiles
• gun 127 mm
  
  View attachment 905026

Yeah we definetely need at least one of those! O_O

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

For legendary Islamophobes,they have a very big muslim population in their country

India also have huge Muslim population plus they are keeping a Muslim majority state in india on gun point. That doesn't mean hindus aren't Islamophobe.

Frenchies brutality colonized lots of Muslim majority countries. Most of their Muslims (who are 2nd class citizens) comes from there.

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

To be honest,I wish we could buy both ships. I wish we could buy 3 FCX-30 HN and 2 or 3 Gowind HN. But that would cost a lot of money. The budget is extremely tight.

Don't bring logistical nightmare on yourself. Chose one platform with future upgradability and simpler logistics in mind. Don't act like arabs...

 

[Foinikas]

India also have huge Muslim population plus they are keeping a Muslim majority state in india on gun point. That doesn't mean hindus aren't Islamophobe.

Frenchies brutality colonized lots of Muslim majority countries. Most of their Muslims (who are 2nd class citizens) comes from there.

It's different. Millions of Muslims already lived there.

But France didn't have the "obligation",let's say,to take them in France. But you know how the West has destroyed their countries with multiculturalism etc.

Anyway,what I don't understand is why they need 3 years to finish a corvette. I think they Chinese manage to finish them in 1 year or 2 at most? Do you know how long it would take the Italians to finish the FCX-30? @Akritas I read that the French have the fastest delivery time,but 32-36 months?!

Don't bring logistical nightmare on yourself. Chose one platform with future upgradability and simpler logistics in mind. Don't act like arabs...

It's true,it is. But I guess the government will go with the Gowind,which I really loved before I actually realized the Italians have a very good ship to offer. I mean a ship that can implement more stuff and offers more choices. It's like a small frigate in a way.

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

It's different. Millions of Muslims already lived there.

But France didn't have the "obligation",let's say,to take them in France. But you know how the West has destroyed their countries with multiculturalism etc.

Frenchies just wanted look good thats it. Frenchies still actively destabilizing their ex colonies just to maintain monopoly on their natural resources. Britishs are saint compared to Frenchies.

Anyway,what I don't understand is why they need 3 years to finish a corvette. I think they Chinese manage to finish them in 1 year or 2 at most? Do you know how long it would take the Italians to finish the FCX-30? @Akritas I read that the French have the fastest delivery time,but 32-36 months?!

Matching Chinese building speed is tough...

 

[Foinikas]

Matching Chinese building speed is tough...

I guess it's because of the manpower. I don't know about the quality,but they sure have A LOT of shipyards.

I was checking your Navy as well,the other day. It looks nice,but you need heavier armed ships. Of course,you're not going to war with anyone,but...you know. If you're buying ships..