Government firm on opposing dalit tag for converts

[Spring Onion]

You more than most should know about tribal identity. Muslims & Christians can have tribal identity as can Hindus. ST reservation is given on the basis of being a disadvantaged tribe, a person continues to be of that tribe even if he/she converts. The scheduled caste based reservation is given on the principle that these castes were the victims of a very oppressive practice wherein they were treated very badly based on the caste (not economic) they belonged to. There is simply no argument to be made by either Christians or Muslims that can logically suggest that these men & women who convert somehow retain their Hindu affiliation of caste officially (unofficially that might well happen). Their argument is that socio economic condition does not change but that does not pass muster because that is not the basis on which these reservations are given. One can be a millionaire & still avail of these benefits (unless specifically limited by a creamy layer rule), this reservation is given only on the basis of the person's caste.

Flawed Idea in any case

 

[Razia Sultana]

I can understand what you meant.
But Madam this is a changed world ,corrupt politicians have their own limitations.Economic benefit is the only important thing in this world.Politicians wont change the mind of the people from grass root level .But religion can do that .And people will do anything for money in this globalized world be it SC/ST or higher caste.

The real problem will arise when outside players manipulate the religious sentiments for their own purposes.
Sudan is an example .It is now divided because of the religious issue.US used Christian religion for their own purpose and oil.


Perhaps you know Saudi manipulation in other Muslim nations .It is not their govt policy but the people in there will
use for its own purpose.

During previous centuries our social set up was different where King can.block any of these problems.But now we have a democracy.

VHP was formed due to the so called soft policy of RSS and BJP.It was Congress failure like Shah Bano case caused the rise of Dal like hard wings.
Hindus still have their rational thinking that is why these fringe groups cant root deeply among majorities.



This is reality madam.Evangelists only cares about their benefits.Even I got a evangelist notice for pray in the front of my temple. This is a Corparate.business .I dont have any problem even if all of them get privileges .But only after the total rational and educational upliftment .
In fact a member already pointed here that converts still use their reservation by using Hindu names.


Abrahamic religion can be easily manipulated by foreign vested interests
if Indians are poor and illiterate .Otherwise it wont be a problem.
ISKON activities are nothing in the front of Christian groups.And they are developed nations with educated people.

Entire humans are bhakts of Amrithananda Mayi .Religious is not a problem in there.Christian family in my neighbourhood got some free medical services from Math.But still they are following Christianity.

Fine, Sudan got divided on religious lines but so was North and South Vietnam, East & West Germany, North & South Yemen, China and Taiwan and the Koreas. Politics has caused more divisions than religion. CPM still cant see anything wrong with China. I am trying to touch upon the more fundamental issue than personal interest.

 

[Soumitra]

I agree with "NO privilege for converts' having said that the question is why any for Hindus? even if it is laden with ST or SC tag? why not END all reservations and provide some facilities to those who have poverty level below zero irrespective of faith. Those who convert to Christianity or Islam can still claim reservations on basis of ST tag which technically also have NO room in these religions

JanaJi I agree with you. There should be NO RESERVATION on basis of caste creed religion etc. If some extra benefits are to be given it should be ONLY on basis of economic status irrespective of whther he is Hindu, Muslim Upper Caste Lower caste etc.

The Reservation was supposed to be a temporary phenomenon but due to Vote Bank politics it has continued for so long. People like V.P.Singh infact enhanced the status to include OBCs many of whom are crorepatis, drive mercedes benz and still take reservation. The Supreme Courst tried to curb it by introducing the concept of Creamy Layer and restricting reservation to 50% but politicians try to subvert the court using some loophole or the other.

 

[Razia Sultana]

They were keen thats sure ,Bringing Constitutional amendments are not childs play ... Appointment of a Judicial commission and accepting its findings shows their interest in Giving SC status to x'ians ,10 % reservation to muslims ...Brave step by NDA Govt

Good. This is the second biggest achievement of Modi Sarkar after Jan Dhan Yojana.
Keep it up.....

I am not ill informed rather your Indian member was calling it a master stroke to halt conversion of Hindus to other faiths. I have read and know what she said

Now coming to the reservations on the basis of cast or tribalism in India

1. Why this religion based reservations to begin with ?
2. Even if you call it ST it is the same thing because there is NO Scheduled cast or tribalism in Christianity or Islam.

3. if you claim otherwise tell me what re scheduled casts according to Indian ideology among Muslims and Christians.

Why not reservations be based on financial status of any community irrespective of their cast or tribe.

The entire Indian theory of reservations revolves around the RELIGION

Looks like you have very little understanding of Indian society.
1. There is no provision for religion based reservation in Indian constitution.
2. ST stands for scheduled tribe meaning certain tribes notified as per a govt. schedule. The criteria for such notification did not consider religion but geographical region, ethnicity, culture and life style etc.
3. SC or scheduled castes were those who were "untouchables" in the hindu society. Hindus did not consider a muslim or a christian untouchable so when one SC became a muslim or a christian this social malaise vanished if not immediately then from his next generation.
Reservation was given because of social problems and not because of financial status. Reservation is a means for social inclusion and inclusion in political process and not for economic advancement. Most people in India make this mistake. A brahmin will give her daughter in marriage to a poor brahmin but not to a rich dalit man. This will make you understand that this issue is not economic but social.

 

[SrNair]

Fine, Sudan got divided on religious lines but so was North and South Vietnam, East & West Germany, North & South Yemen, China and Taiwan and the Koreas. Politics has caused more divisions than religion. CPM still cant see anything wrong with China. I am trying to touch upon the more fundamental issue than personal interest.

Vietnam ,Germany and Korea .Those things are happened because of Cold War.And again external factor .

Yemen is the best example that proved the fact what I am trying to say.Houthis under Iran ,Shia majority and Others under Sunni majority Saudi Arabia .Syria and Iraq also has similar sectarian cases.
Iran will only care about Shia and sub groups .They are using other nations and dividing them for their own ideology .And when it comes to the Chrisitians it will be for interefering in internal affairs and resource exploitation .Look at the full stop of incidents of Church vandalization after Obamas heavenly speech in India .Quite interesting isnt it ?.Medias showed one CCTV image and the man in that image is almost like a Chrisitian.
South Korea is now a total christian nation.But that is not a problem there ,Because peoples are totally developed .
China and Taiwan are age old dispute.Majority of nations you are pointed here is just a remains of disputes that happened after WW2.
But Sudan is the perfect example of exploitation of religion for their own purpose by West .It happened in there because Sudanese are total poor and illiterate.Our villages in the India is also not that better.
If you want to know about evangelical politicians then search for late YSR family in Andhra Pradesh

I already said if our people gets total rational ability on the basis of education then any type of religious freedom can be allowed.But for that total upliftment from the present condition needed within the Hinduism.

 

[nik141991]

Ban reservation for all,my brother lost his PMT seat because of f**ing kota

 

[Razia Sultana]

Ban reservation for all,my brother lost his PMT seat because of f**ing kota

Is it a fashion to blame own's shortcomings to reservation system? There are many private colleges where he can study medicals by paying fees. What he will miss is the governmental subsidy.
The reservations for SC/ST are an outcome of Poona Pact signed between Gandhi and Ambedkar in 1932. In fact many say that Ambedkar was coerced by Gandhi into signing this pact. It was agreed that Dalits would not demand for a separate electorate (read as "separate state" like Muslim League demanded for Pakistan) and a constitutional provision like reservation would be made in free India to give them representation in governance and ensure to bring them in the mainstream of the society. You can not undo the history. SC/ST constitute about 25% of Indian population but have access to far less resources of the nation.

 

[Soumitra]

Is it a fashion to blame own's shortcomings to reservation system? There are many private colleges where he can study medicals by paying fees. What he will miss is the governmental subsidy.
The reservations for SC/ST are an outcome of Poona Pact signed between Gandhi and Ambedkar in 1932. In fact many say that Ambedkar was coerced by Gandhi into signing this pact. It was agreed that Dalits would not demand for a separate electorate (read as "separate state" like Muslim League demanded for Pakistan) and a constitutional provision like reservation would be made in free India to give them representation in governance and ensure to bring them in the mainstream of the society. You can not undo the history. SC/ST constitute about 25% of Indian population but have access to far less resources of the nation.

No you are wrong. All colleges Private or Govt have to follow the reservation because that is University norm.

Why should a 500 rank holder let go of his seat to a 5000 rank holder just because he has got reservation?

The Constitutional Provision for reservation was for a limited time. Even Ambedkar did not want it for more than 10 years and now because of Vote Bank politics it is continuing and expanding.

Why is it that only at the time of elections new new castes are added in reservation list.

Regarding discrimination in urban areas of India you do not know what is the caste of your co worker/neighbour. no one has time for that. I agree in some remote rural areas it is still prevalent but middle class people do not practice discrimination.

That is why I am in favour of reservation on economic lines not religion or caste lines. Every deserving person will get benefit of education even if he/she cant afford expensive coaching classess

 

[Dragon Ball]

Foreign Funding is not just restricted to churches and Madrasas. VHP and other Hindu and Sikh organizations also receive huge sums from abroad and so also the political parties. All are indulging in corrupt practices so why blame only christians and muslims? No political party has either taxed or stopped or effectively regulate the flow of foreign funds because the biggest gainers are political parties.

VHP and other Hindu/Sikh organizations receive money (miniscule amount compared to other religions) only from the NRI crowd. They do not have foreign institutions like white/black churches or rich Arabs and Wahhabi govts contributing to their fund. So the risk of subversion of Indian state is not present with VHP donations. Same cannot be applied to Muslim/Christian funding from abroad.

 

[uparyupari]

Tikka muchkondu malkolli bega...

Earn it.