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Germany, Japan fume at Obama's UN nod

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NEW DELHI: With India having got the US's coveted backing for a permanent seat in the United Nations Security Council, two major aspirants to the high table are fuming. Both Germany and Japan went public with their annoyance at their claims being overlooked and made their displeasure known to the US.

In an interview to a TV channel, US ambassador to India Tim Roemer admitted as much. He said the two nations had asked why India had been accorded special treatment and the reasons US saw it as a valued partner. The ambassador indicated that the resistance pointed to the distance that needed to be travelled for UN reform to become a reality.

He also suggested that US backing for India's case showed Washington's determination to pursue its ties with India that president Barack Obama outlined during his visit.

While India has managed to wrest an important pledge from president Obama that may take some time to be realized, it is still crucial. So far, Washington had only supported Japan for a permanent seat at the UNSC even though it opposed the G4 (a group that included Japan, Germany, Brazil and India).

With Obamas announcement on Monday, the US has shifted its own stance to accommodate India. But that doesn't mean the G4 to which India has tacked its own aspirations is in the clear yet.

Security Council reform is not only about putting India into the body. The issues at stake are what should be the ideal size of a new UNSC; whether the new members would have veto rights, the number of permanent and non-permanent members, its relations with the UN General Assembly, whether there should be regional representation.

Officials said the UN's body debating the inter-governmental negotiations will restart their deliberations soon. The US show of support will make a difference to India and Japan. Not to Germany, which is opposed by Italy and by many other countries who say giving a permanent seat to Germany would put a third seat in Europe (fourth, if you count Russia as a European power), at a time when European power is in decline. Besides, EU was asking for a separate status for itself in the UNGA, they argue.

Africa is a problem too. There is general consensus that Africa should have two seats in the UNSC, but which two countries? Even the African Union is divided on that. There can't be UNSC reform without the Africans because then the world runs the risk of all 53 African countries boycotting.

Then there is China. The Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson on Tuesday, when questioned, said, China values India's status in international affairs and understands India's aspirations to play a greater role in the United Nations and is ready to keep contact and consultations with India and other member states on the issues of Security Council reform.

But even if China can be made to digest an Indian membership, as at the NSG, its not going to be so easy for Japan, which even has South Korea opposing it. Brazil is opposed by Mexico and Argentina (since its the only Portuguese-speaking country in a Spanish-speaking continent), and of course, Pakistan opposes India. These countries had formed the Coffee Club, later renamed United for Consensus, and will most likely be resurrected again, perhaps with tacit Chinese support.

How many permanent members should the new UNSC have? The US wants around 19 members (in both categories). The G4 position is more sensible that's India, Brazil, Japan and Germany, two African countries and three added to the non-permanent list. There are other ideas floating around UK, France and Liechtenstein proposed an interim arrangement for 10 years and a review thereafter. The Chinese are more non-specific and have just said they want more seats for developing countries.

Veto? India will fight to the end for the veto. But many countries say they can live without it, because the veto is not used anymore and lobbying for support is the way to go in the Council. But veto, like nuclear weapons, is a currency of power. That battle, therefore, will continue.

With all these roadblocks, why is India optimistic? Its eminently doable, said sources on background. India's recent bid for the non-permanent seat fetched it 187 votes. That was huge. It signalled, if nothing else, that the world is ready for UNSC reform and that India has a better chance than most. Last week, India won what is believed to be the most difficult vote in the UNGA Advisory Committee on Administrative and Budgetary Questions (ACABQ) with a whopping 164 votes, leaving Japan trailing at 146, China at 130 and Pakistan at 114. These, say officials, are all signals of support.

The trick is now to convert all this into a usable text in the UNGA and lay on the diplomatic charm. Indian officials, chuffed at their recent successes, now exhibit a rare can-do spirit. India sees change happening by 2012.

Germany, Japan fume at Obama's UN nod - The Times of India
 
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Germany or a EU country should never get a seat, unless it expands to 10 seats.

Japan deserves to be angry.

For me, Japan, India and Brazil all deserves it.
 
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For china, it is better that India gets it than Japan. Also since India is a developing country like china, they are more likely to work together on issues regarding developing countries.

edit: although I think that the more permanent security council members it has, the less likely that the UN is going to get anything done.
 
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For china, it is better that India gets it than Japan. Also since India is a developing country like china, they are more likely to work together on issues regarding developing countries.

edit: although I think that the more permanent security council members it has, the less likely that the UN is going to get anything done.

Absolutely right. :tup:

If there is any chance of Japan getting a permanent seat, China will veto the resolution.

War crimes aside, they will be nothing but another pocket vote for the USA.

Not to mention that they have a "pacifist constitution", which prevents them from even making the "threat" of force. What use are they on the security council?
 
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For china, it is better that India gets it than Japan. Also since India is a developing country like china, they are more likely to work together on issues regarding developing countries.

edit: although I think that the more permanent security council members it has, the less likely that the UN is going to get anything done.

My concerns exactly with regards both to shared interest with India as developing nations and the possibility a larger veto welding pool in the UNSC will obstruct the already slow process.

More permanent members, no expansion of veto power is what I want to see in the reforms and it is interesting how the USA hasn't clarified whether its support for India extends to a spot with/without Veto power.
 
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For china, it is better that India gets it than Japan. Also since India is a developing country like china, they are more likely to work together on issues regarding developing countries.

edit: although I think that the more permanent security council members it has, the less likely that the UN is going to get anything done.

True but 3(England,France and Russia) of the current 5 are no more predominant economic powers and 2(England,France) of the 5 are no more even military powers.

---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 AM ----------

My concerns exactly with regards both to shared interest with India as developing nations and the possibility a larger veto welding pool in the UNSC will obstruct the already slow process.

More permanent members, no expansion of veto power is what I want to see in the reforms and it is interesting how the USA hasn't clarified whether its support for India extends to a spot with/without Veto power.

Why would India want a seat without veto...they already have that and it is pretty useless.
 
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Not to mention that they have a "pacifist constitution", which prevents them from even making the "threat" of force. What use are they on the security council?
Isn't that a good thing to have? I mean not to have a war at the first place?
 
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Absolutely right. :tup:

If there is any chance of Japan getting a permanent seat, China will veto the resolution.

War crimes aside, they will be nothing but another pocket vote for the USA.

Not to mention that they have a "pacifist constitution", which prevents them from even making the "threat" of force. What use are they on the security council?

Precisely and it is not only China who'll block Japan's seat, basically any Asian country that the Japanese slaughtered its way through is going to object. And there is serious concerns about it being a US puppet vote considering that Japan, as a sovereign nation, couldn't even move a US marine base off of their land.
 
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Why would India want a seat without veto...they already have that and it is pretty useless.

If you really are asking this in all seriousness, then I'll point out the obvious. India is now at the start of a 2 years term, after being absent for 20 years. What the US is backing is a permanent seat that will require no election every term.
 
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Isn't that a good thing to have? I mean not to have a war at the first place?

It means that they cannot contribute troops to serve abroad. Though the right-wingers and militarists in Japan seem set to change their constitution to allow war again.
 
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If you really are asking this in all seriousness, then I'll point out the obvious. India is now at the start of a 2 years term, after being absent for 20 years. What the US is backing is a permanent seat that will require no election every term.

But that seat is useless...India can get every single country on the council to back a resolution for one permanent member to veto it easily. What good is such a seat?

Ask the Arabs and the no of times they tried to get resolutions passed against Israel.

Edit: The security council is basically a prestige club..the UN by itself is rather useless as an entity today.Groups like the G20 are more relevant. I imagine India wants to be a member for prestige reasons so anything less than a veto wielding member is a slap on the face.
 
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But that seat is useless...India can get every single country on the council to back a resolution for one permanent member to veto it easily.

replace that statement with

But that seat is useless...China, Russia, the US, the UK and France can get every single country on the council to back a resolution for one permanent member to veto it easily.

and I ask you: What of it?


Ask the Arabs and the no of times they tried to get resolutions passed against Israel.

That's a bad thing? Ask Solomon if he feel the US was right to veto those propositions.
 
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I am not debating about the right and wrong of vetos...I am just saying that as far as I can see India gains nothing from a permanent seat in the UNSC. No gain at all other than prestige reasons.And a seat without the veto is I imagine more humiliating than status quo.
 
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I am not debating about the right and wrong of vetos...I am just saying that as far as I can see India gains nothing from a permanent seat in the UNSC. No gain at all other than prestige reasons.

The Indians seem pretty happy just with a permanent seat endorsement by Obama. What I was pointing out was that it isn't clear yet whether he endorses a seat with/without veto.
 
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