Gen.Raheel's Visit & Staged U S Reception---Pres. Obama's Threat To Strike Pakistan

[rockstar08]

Hi,

My goodman---your nucs---that you guys have been bragging about---all of them have been neutered---.

I just don't want to go into the details and the procedure---but rest assured---Pakistan's military strength against the U S is that of a Eunuch fighting someone with massive cojones---.

Your comments about 10 million people are like pi-ss and vinegar---. I understand that you are a loyal Pakistani and it is difficult to see your dream image smashed to pieces----on what you have placed on high pedastals---I empathise with you.

You don't understand the order of the battle and I am not going to get into it---and even india is well prepared to face the action---.

It is only the blind conviction of you Pakistani kids and adults that you are in this mess---.

And you guys have no clue what 'bad' situation means---.

lol at least i am loyal to a country which i belong .. and what are you ?

a loser who go and become boot polishing American , and today think he is Goora ? hahahaha
at least i did not lose my identity .. you second generation Americans make me feel puking hahaha

I am not here to heard your mumbling about how American are mighty and they have Optimus prime to defeat us

you can keep it to yourself, Yes our country is mess, yes we are responsible but we are hearing this stories since 47
nothing new for us ..

dont forget about your country army men that came back in coffins from Iraq
and your mighty army run like their sorry A$$ is on fire hahaha

at least we manage to defeat the insurgency within our lands ..
and as for Pakistani Civilians ? dude you have seriously have no idea what a crazy nation we are ..

the only reason American been tolerated in that our Leadership is weak .. trust me the day Pakistan find its way to a revolution , no one will a sh!t about US of A ...

i dont understand battle ? and who are you ? COAS of US Army ? lol ,you are just a over hyped old men , a wanna be goora living in US selling cars

our if you have read my post with your extra thick glasses on , than you would understand our nukes are last resorts , if we are losing Pakistan , than we will make sure the region will be Fcuked along with your Country and its Economy ..

you thinking Attacking Pakistan is piece of Cake LOL ... give it a try .. US forces cant even cross the FATA region if the country wide Jihad is been declared across Pakistan

the armed tribal ( which i dont like ) , will rape your army is the worse way possible
you think its easy to fight with them ? few thousand Afghan Taliban is playing hide and seek with US and 30+ armies since 2001 .. and yet they attack whenever they want in Kabul lol

i have seen the military might you dont have to prove your American Patriotism here
we understand you are bound to dance like a cheap cheer girl for America , as you hold and ask for their Passport , and take an oath of lol

as for us ... we are Pakistani , and for me i have no plans to move US in near future
I am not going to work as waiter or polish the boots while holding a P.DH degree ...
i can have far better Future in my own country or some other if i ever decide to move on ..

so please dont act like a girl in her third period in a month , just go to a theme part , sit along side a lake and fed the ducks
or if you have grandchildren go play with them ...

 

[Vapnope]

The way i see this whole US-Pakistan sore relations is that, we acted like mercenary back in Soviet-Afghan War without asking any questions, and now when we have our own ambitions and we do not want to be dictated by US the things are going south for Pakistan. The only way to avoid the "strike" from US Mastan is talking about, is to get back to being a lap dog of US with no ifs and butts. If they want to strike us there is absolutely nothing we can do. I don't see how General Raheel or Nawaz can change things magically to become blue eyed boy for US again.
I would request Mastan to give a practical solution to avoid that "Strike" he is talking about.

 

[ZeusMK]

And you think we'd chicken out from a "China or Russia" supported country? Like Iraq, Libya, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan weren't supported by the Russians????? So the only right choice is the number 1 form your list!!

Afghanistan was SUPPORTED by WHOM?

I know you are being optimistic about your country but lest not Overestimate and deviate from the Facts any more.

The world has changed now
and when we talk about China, we know that we are not joking. I can say utterly with my right mind
that NO country in the world today can challenge China today.

and also the most important thing that all of us should never forget that after all of the sacrifice of life, wealth and economy, what was uncle Sam able to achieve after Iraq, Afghanistan & Vietnam?

i guess we all know the answer so no need to talk on it.

 

[sady]

Agreed .That is a good point .
US failed to create a successful conclusion of war in Iraq ,Afghanistan or Vietnam .
But US destroyed all those nations and nations like Iraq cant even show its real borders .
But no one can touch US in their own land .
They created a hell in Russia's neighbourhood (Ukraine) with mere diplomatic movements.

True. US is untouchable and can get away with some middle-lower class soldiers dead in few wars here and there and flaunt Patriotism down people's throat for forseeable future. No borders with hostile states. However there are indirect consequences and ripples that will finally reach up to US. With Additive effects of unnecessary interventions , the moral high ground professed with each intervention will vane away eventually 'the might is right' doctrine emerges and a world which isn't unipolar anymore US will find it difficult to find allies and alliances to keep up with its supremacy so in short there is nothing as absolute power in this world only strengths which work if not overplayed.

 

[LeGenD]

How many wars with Russia?

What do you think COLD WAR was about?

how many wars with Iran?

You expect another country to bite the dust?

Iraq? ok lets admit it had some semblance of a professional army which had almost depleted to its last legs thanks to years of fighting neighboring countries, where Iraqi soldiers would rather flee than fight because of fear of Saddam, the cult leader.

Some semblance of a professional army?

When Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990, the Iraqi army was the fourth largest army in the world. Its active regular strength had increased from 180,000 men in early 1980, before the start of the Iran-Iraq War, to over 800,000 men in early 1990 -- before Saddam Hussein took his decision to invade Kuwait. Its forces had the potential to mobilize to as many as 2,000,000 men, or roughly 75% of all Iraqi men between 18 and 34. The Iraqi army's tank strength had risen from 2,700 to at least 5,700 weapons between 1980 and 1990, and its total tube artillery strength had risen from 2,300 weapons to 3,700. By the time Iraq had invaded Kuwait, its army had mobilized as many as 955,000 men (including 480,000 reserves). These forces were organized into seven to eight corps, and more than 60 to 66 division equivalents. While estimates differ as to the exact number of major combat units involved, they seem to have included 7 armored and mechanized divisions, 8 Republican Guard divisions, 40 infantry divisions, 20 special forces and commando brigades. They included 2 surface-to-surface missile brigades with at least 50 FROG-7 launchers, and 800-1,200 Scud and Scud variant missiles. These estimates would have given the Iraqi army a total mobilized strength of about 230 brigade equivalents, with up to 50 armored and mechanized brigade equivalents. The Republican Guards were Iraq's most effective force. Iraq had recognized the need for elite forces once Iran had invaded Iraqi territory, and had expanded a guard force originally designed to protect the capital and the president. The Republican Guards forces received special equipment and training during the Iran-Iraq War. They played a major role in defending Basra in 1987 and the Iraqi offensives 1988. As a result of their success, they had grown to eight divisions by the end of the Iran-Iraq War, plus a large number of independent infantry and artillery brigades. By August, 1990, the Republican Guards totaled nearly 20% of the Iraqi army. They reported to the State Special Security Apparatus in peacetime, rather than the Ministry of Defense. They reported to the Presidential Palace in wartime, although they were subordinated to military headquarters for specific military operations. They had special training in offensive and maneuver warfare, chemical warfare, and counter-attacks. They were equipped with Iraq's best weapons: T-72 main battle tanks, BMP armored fighting vehicles, French GCT self-propelled howitzers, and Austrian GHN-45 towed howitzers, the most modern weapons in the Iraqi army. Republican Guard battalions had nine more tanks than Iraqi regular army battalions, and the Republican Guard's support, armored recovery, and engineering equipment was superior to that of other Iraqi army forces. The rest of the Iraqi army totaled more than 50 division equivalents by mid-1990. Its basic operational level was the Corps, which normally consisted of several divisions and large numbers of support units. Divisions normally consisted of three brigades. The bulk of the Iraqi regular army divisions were infantry forces equipped with 1960's vintage Soviet and PRC-made equipment, but there were several high quality armored and mechanized divisions. Iraq's regular army armored divisions had two armored brigades and one mechanized brigade. The mechanized divisions had two mechanized brigades and one armored brigade. Infantry divisions had three infantry brigades and one tank battalion. Iraqi divisions generally had four artillery battalions and sometimes more. Most brigades had four battalions. The armored brigades had three armored and one mechanized battalion. The mechanized brigades had three mechanized and one tank battalion. Iraq also had a Popular Army, which had been created in 1971 as a Ba'ath Party militia. It was a highly political force designed to counter any threat from the regular forces, and had poor training and equipment before the Iran-Iraq War. Despite several efforts to improve it during the early 1980s, it performed poorly during the Iran-Iraq War -- even when Popular Army units were finally integrated into Iraqi regular army formations during the 1980s. This led Iraq to cut the Popular Army to 250,000 by mid-1990, from a wartime high of 650,000. It no longer was integrated into the Iraqi regular army. The remaining forces consisted largely of Ba'ath Party members and it was organized for rear area and internal security missions.

The Iraqi army was extremely well equipped by Third World standards. It had at least 5,700 tanks and many experts feel the figure was closer to 6,700. In addition to its main battle tanks, Iraq had more than 3,000 heavy tank transporters. It also had at least 3,500 to 4,000 other armored vehicles. The Iraqi army had large numbers of anti-tank weapons, including AT-3 Saggers, AT-4 Spigots, SS-11s, Milans, and HOTs. Iraq had one of the most formidable artillery forces in the world. Its major tube artillery included 3,000 to 5,000 towed and 500 self-propelled weapons. Iraq also had extensive surface-to-surface rocket and missile forces. These included a minimum of 24-30 FROG launchers and up to 100-150 Scud launchers, including fixed sites and modified trucks. The army had 490 helicopters, of which 190 were attack helicopters. The armed types included 56 Bo-105s with AS-11s and HOT, 40 Mi-24s, 30 SA-316s with AS-12s, 13 SA-321s, some armed with Exocets, and 20 SA-342s armed with machine guns and cannon. The other helicopters included 15 heavy transports, 225 medium transports, and 124 light helicopters. Iraq had a separate air defense command that cooperated with the air force as part of an integrated air defense system. It also, however, had many lighter air defense weapons that were deployed with army units at the corps level or lower. These included some 7,000 antiaircraft guns, with a number of ZSU-23-4 radar-guided self-propelled weapons, and numerous heavy anti-aircraft guns ranging from 85mm to 130mm. Iraq also had some 15,000 mobile and man-portable SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13, SA-14, and SA-16 weapons, and roughly 100 Roland fire units on self propelled armored vehicles.

Source: http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/iraq88-93.pdf

Libya? Syria? Afghanistan? Would you want me to go one by one? Boots on ground?

Please do.

Why does not US send its forces as peace keeping force in Ukraine? Why did USA not put boots on ground in Serbia? Why is Syria still off limits to US boots? Why is Syria such a cesspool for USA?

Why should US be involved in every damn conflict in the world?

Also, modern wars create instability, not stability.

 

[C130]

Hi,

I just heard the state of the union address---and for that reason I changed the title of this thread as well.

In his state of the union address---Pres Obama directly threatened to take military action against pakistan.

If you listened to his speech----he talked about some areas where there will always be trouble---and pakistan was named amongst those countries---he further went on to state that military action will be taken against those coutnries---and one of those countries was pakistan.

This attitude of the U S has been picture clear for the last few years to find an opportunity and excuse to take out pakistan. If it was not for isis---the mission to neutrallize pakistan would have already started.

For the last few years there is nothing much positive coming out for pakistan---other than the regular feel good statements---.

The U S likes Nawaz Shareef---because he is a coward and a gutless man---he can be forced into taking the direction that the U S wants to give---actually Nawaz is happy to oblige---as long as he gets his business deals in the package.

So---going back to the threat---it seems like the paf has failed to understand the changing scenario---just like it did with france regarding the radar and electronics warfare package for the JF17---.

I just could not comprehend that long visit by the air chief marshall. Are they so dellusional and so deep into their self beliefs that they did not see what kind of change was coming---.

Same thing with Gen Raheel---what was he thinking---with Nawaz Sharif I can understand---he likes to be spanked by powerful leaders and likes to look compliant and submissive to look good in their eyes.




Hi,

It is not a matter of getting 8 F16's only---it is a matter of changing the battle plans---it is a matter of breaking away from the enchantment that the F 16 has created and focusing on something else.

The thing is that we should have had over 150 F16's by now and over a 150 JF17's to date.

We only got 70 F16's and 60 JF17's---and no true air superiority fighter aircraft of the caliber of the Rafale or the eurofighter---.

As for the afghans---pakistran must ask the afghan pashtuns to join pakistan and seperate from northern alliance territories---.

This attitude of the U S has been picture clear for the last few years to find an opportunity and excuse to take out pakistan



Pakistan has no oil so why would we want to take out Pakistan, and how could we take out Pakistan


we are too busy taking out Syria

my opinion is we get the F out of the Middle East and let Russia and China deal with out mess

 

[sady]

What do you think COLD WAR was about?


You expect another country to bite the dust?


Some semblance of a professional army?


When Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990, the Iraqi army was the fourth largest army in the world. Its active regular strength had increased from 180,000 men in early 1980, before the start of the Iran-Iraq War, to over 800,000 men in early 1990 -- before Saddam Hussein took his decision to invade Kuwait. Its forces had the potential to mobilize to as many as 2,000,000 men, or roughly 75% of all Iraqi men between 18 and 34. The Iraqi army's tank strength had risen from 2,700 to at least 5,700 weapons between 1980 and 1990, and its total tube artillery strength had risen from 2,300 weapons to 3,700. By the time Iraq had invaded Kuwait, its army had mobilized as many as 955,000 men (including 480,000 reserves). These forces were organized into seven to eight corps, and more than 60 to 66 division equivalents. While estimates differ as to the exact number of major combat units involved, they seem to have included 7 armored and mechanized divisions, 8 Republican Guard divisions, 40 infantry divisions, 20 special forces and commando brigades. They included 2 surface-to-surface missile brigades with at least 50 FROG-7 launchers, and 800-1,200 Scud and Scud variant missiles. These estimates would have given the Iraqi army a total mobilized strength of about 230 brigade equivalents, with up to 50 armored and mechanized brigade equivalents. The Republican Guards were Iraq's most effective force. Iraq had recognized the need for elite forces once Iran had invaded Iraqi territory, and had expanded a guard force originally designed to protect the capital and the president. The Republican Guards forces received special equipment and training during the Iran-Iraq War. They played a major role in defending Basra in 1987 and the Iraqi offensives 1988. As a result of their success, they had grown to eight divisions by the end of the Iran-Iraq War, plus a large number of independent infantry and artillery brigades. By August, 1990, the Republican Guards totaled nearly 20% of the Iraqi army. They reported to the State Special Security Apparatus in peacetime, rather than the Ministry of Defense. They reported to the Presidential Palace in wartime, although they were subordinated to military headquarters for specific military operations. They had special training in offensive and maneuver warfare, chemical warfare, and counter-attacks. They were equipped with Iraq's best weapons: T-72 main battle tanks, BMP armored fighting vehicles, French GCT self-propelled howitzers, and Austrian GHN-45 towed howitzers, the most modern weapons in the Iraqi army. Republican Guard battalions had nine more tanks than Iraqi regular army battalions, and the Republican Guard's support, armored recovery, and engineering equipment was superior to that of other Iraqi army forces. The rest of the Iraqi army totaled more than 50 division equivalents by mid-1990. Its basic operational level was the Corps, which normally consisted of several divisions and large numbers of support units. Divisions normally consisted of three brigades. The bulk of the Iraqi regular army divisions were infantry forces equipped with 1960's vintage Soviet and PRC-made equipment, but there were several high quality armored and mechanized divisions. Iraq's regular army armored divisions had two armored brigades and one mechanized brigade. The mechanized divisions had two mechanized brigades and one armored brigade. Infantry divisions had three infantry brigades and one tank battalion. Iraqi divisions generally had four artillery battalions and sometimes more. Most brigades had four battalions. The armored brigades had three armored and one mechanized battalion. The mechanized brigades had three mechanized and one tank battalion. Iraq also had a Popular Army, which had been created in 1971 as a Ba'ath Party militia. It was a highly political force designed to counter any threat from the regular forces, and had poor training and equipment before the Iran-Iraq War. Despite several efforts to improve it during the early 1980s, it performed poorly during the Iran-Iraq War -- even when Popular Army units were finally integrated into Iraqi regular army formations during the 1980s. This led Iraq to cut the Popular Army to 250,000 by mid-1990, from a wartime high of 650,000. It no longer was integrated into the Iraqi regular army. The remaining forces consisted largely of Ba'ath Party members and it was organized for rear area and internal security missions.

The Iraqi army was extremely well equipped by Third World standards. It had at least 5,700 tanks and many experts feel the figure was closer to 6,700. In addition to its main battle tanks, Iraq had more than 3,000 heavy tank transporters. It also had at least 3,500 to 4,000 other armored vehicles. The Iraqi army had large numbers of anti-tank weapons, including AT-3 Saggers, AT-4 Spigots, SS-11s, Milans, and HOTs. Iraq had one of the most formidable artillery forces in the world. Its major tube artillery included 3,000 to 5,000 towed and 500 self-propelled weapons. Iraq also had extensive surface-to-surface rocket and missile forces. These included a minimum of 24-30 FROG launchers and up to 100-150 Scud launchers, including fixed sites and modified trucks. The army had 490 helicopters, of which 190 were attack helicopters. The armed types included 56 Bo-105s with AS-11s and HOT, 40 Mi-24s, 30 SA-316s with AS-12s, 13 SA-321s, some armed with Exocets, and 20 SA-342s armed with machine guns and cannon. The other helicopters included 15 heavy transports, 225 medium transports, and 124 light helicopters. Iraq had a separate air defense command that cooperated with the air force as part of an integrated air defense system. It also, however, had many lighter air defense weapons that were deployed with army units at the corps level or lower. These included some 7,000 antiaircraft guns, with a number of ZSU-23-4 radar-guided self-propelled weapons, and numerous heavy anti-aircraft guns ranging from 85mm to 130mm. Iraq also had some 15,000 mobile and man-portable SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13, SA-14, and SA-16 weapons, and roughly 100 Roland fire units on self propelled armored vehicles.

Source: http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/iraq88-93.pdf


Please do.


Why should US be involved in every damn conflict in the world?

Also, modern wars create instability, not stability.

You completely missed my point and I wouldn't like to spend more time to enlighten you

 

[LeGenD]

Mastan i think you are over thinking about stuff man ...
yeah US is super power but Attacking Pakistan will be their doom , specially for their forces in region along with entire region ...
I dont think US think tanks are that Stupid as we have on PDF to attack a Nuclear Armed state with Active BM and CM ?

Really?

The Bush administration threatened to bomb Pakistan 'back to the stone age' after 9/11 event. It is foolish to underestimate military power and political will of US.

what can US do ? Attack Pakistan , send in Special forces to take down Nuke Sites ? that will be the Joke .. after putting Billion of Dollars in spying they still yet to locate our nukes , forget about attacking them ...

They know a lot about our military and strategic assets. They study and observe these matters to great extent. They have fielded multi-layered infrastructure to acquire vital information from different parts of the world, when necessary.

They don't need spies on the ground to figure out locations of strategic assets anymore, their technological capability and reach is unparalleled. And if there are spies on the ground, we don't know about them. Not all spies are inept in the matters of espionage like Raymond Davis. Perhaps a worker in one of our strategic areas is leaking information to them, who the hell knows?

Moreover, if Americans actually know about the locations of our nukes, they will never boast about it. Some matters are not meant for public consumption, period.

than what next ? get Air superiority ? ok they can get it ...
but than ? destroying Army , Air force and Naval Infrastructure ? leaving 0.6 Million army ?

Yes, they can accomplish this.

A direct conventional conflict with US is not advisable. Even the Russians understand this ground reality.

becoming armed rebels ? LOL that will be nightmare for Americans as they will never try anything like Iraq ..
Pakistan Army its officers are far more trained than Iraqi Army and imagine if they choose to start a Armed struggle against the occupied forces combined in Afghanistan and Pakistan ?

Have you worked with Iraqi armed forces at personal capacity? If not, then you are not in the position to comment on its professionalism and training standards prior to the Persian Gulf War (1991).

Iraq used to be a role-model for the so-called Third World Countries in the matters of military capability during the years (1988 - 1991). However, Iraq committed a major blunder by challenging US interests in the Middle East and paid a hefty price for it. Look at its situation now, it is pitiful.

Saddam Hussein thought that the US was inept and lacked the political will for a major conflict since Vietnam episode. Such premature thinking got him killed and his country destroyed.

that will be slaughter of US forces ... they should get the coffins in thousands first ...

Really? How many Pakistani will die as well? Ever thought of this?

War is not just about Attacking and Destroying , its about sustaining .. and no matter how much US military is mightier than us , they can't sustain a month in Pakistan , with armed men roaming on streets , IED attacks, ambushes ..
not to forget the 2.0 Million Armed Tribal along with Baluch and Sindh tribes all are armed to teeth ..
they will rape American in a worse way possible ..

You think that every Pakistani is a Rambo or something? That Pakistani do not have families and other stuff to worry about? Your perceptions are utterly unrealistic.

I will let the numbers do the talking: World Military Strength Comparison

indiscriminate bombing will attract Russian and China into equation , the world will see any move against Pakistan as act of aggression , and than we will have all Option including using nuclear Attack on US bases in the region ...

China and Russia will try to prevent a (hypothetical) conflict between US and Pakistan through diplomatic channels and pressure.

And which US military bases are you talking about? Those in the Middle East and Afghanistan? You expect Pakistan to nuke these nations?

And what do you think will happen in return?

no matter what will happen to Pakistan but US will be stripped down from its Super power title along with doomed Economy ..

American economy is way too enormous to collapse under pressure of a single major conflict. If events such as Great Depression, World War II and Cold War couldn't damage American economy long-term, a conflict with Pakistan won't either.

US is not a paper tiger; it is a legitimate superpower.

so in short Attacking Pakistan will be end of US as Super Power .. dont believe me ask your leader to give it a try
Pakistani's are fcuking crazy people , if the State Declare a Jihad against the Oppressors there will be around 10 Million Armed people attacking any Forces in the streets of Pakistan .. no to mentioned a Topple like Iran can devastate the entire region with 120 Nukes .. even 20 nukes survive it will be a destruction for not just Region but the entire world ..

dont forget ISIS is looking for Nukes from Black market .. and they are constantly working on finding scientist and Engineers .. and if they get the tech from black market giving some million of Dollars which they have .. the world will be doomed and US will be responsible for it

This is utter nonsense.

It pains me to acknowledge the fact that an all-out war between US and Pakistan will result in the end of Pakistan. But truth takes precedence over false bravado and pride.

You think that Pakistani are crazy? You need to read American history.

1. Americans exterminated a race because they didn't like it.
2. Americans have killed more Americans then any other nation in the world and still have one of the highest rates of violence in the world.
3. Americans have actual history of using weapons of mass destruction during conflicts.
4. Americans are relentless. They don't easily forget and forgive, and they can go to any length to eliminate those whom they deem as a threat to their national security.

For a case study, look no further then the example of Iraq. Even though, US had settled its score with Iraq during the Persian Gulf War (1991), American aggression did not end here. US imposed heavy sanctions on Iraq to thwart its recovery effort for several years and proceeded to invade it one fine day to eliminate Saddam Hussein and his power-base. Millions of Iraqi people lost their lives, thousands of Iraqi families were hurt, and Iraqi infrastructure and security apparatus suffered a major setback. But all of this was acceptable because Bush family had to settle its personal beef with Saddam's family in a true cowboy-style vengeance.

Few nations rival Americans in sheer brutality. Though, not all Americans are violent. However, I can assert with confidence that Pakistani are more level-headed then Americans on average.

And no! 20 nukes won't end the world. Don't be naive.

You completely missed my point and I wouldn't like to spend more time to enlighten you

If you cannot explain your point then whats the point of your participation in this debate?

When you participate in a community discussion, expect your point-of-view to be challenged, re-elaborate your point and/or defend your point, when necessary. This is how discussion works.

 

[rockstar08]

Really?

The Bush administration threatened to bomb Pakistan 'back to the stone age' after 9/11 event. It is foolish to underestimate military power and political will of US.

lol and what stop US ? i did know Nawaz or Raheel blow Obama ? hahah we are hearing that same nonsense from May 2011 when US played the drama of OBL assassination ..no one is underestimating US , but dont ever Underestimate Pakistani People and their Potential to die for their Country .. Patriots are not just in US , when it comes to people Existance even a person with coward heart can hold a weapon and shoot ..

They know a lot about our military and strategic assets. They study and observe these matters to great extent. They have fielded multi-layered infrastructure to acquire vital information.

They don't need spies on the ground to figure out locations of strategic assets anymore, their technological capabilities and reach is unparalleled. And if there are spies on the ground, we don't know about them. Not all spies are inept in the matters of espionage like Raymond Davis. Perhaps a worker in one of our strategic areas is leaking information to them, who the hell knows?

Moreover, if Americans actually know about the locations of our nukes, they will never boast about it. Some matters are not meant for public consumption, period.

these are nothing but Rants , this and that .. if's and buts .. i am talking about Ground realities which you are far from ..
US wont declare that they have knowledge but , how do you know they got location ? you work in CIA ? lol

they know our Military and people that is why they keep their dreams inside their pants to attack Pakistan directly ..
if you are dumb enough to understand the simple fact than i cant help you

Yes, they can accomplish this.

A direct conventional conflict with US is not advisable. Even the Russians understand this ground reality.

i never claim that we will won or anyone can win from US , but if we lose they will lose the region .. the entire US might in this region will be in to ashes .. along with their ability to Fight oversea's .. as Pakistan will not go down without a fight .. if you think that its some Hollywood movie and Optimus prime along with Avengers are coming than i guess you should stop smoking that cheap drugs you are doing ...

Have you worked with Iraqi armed forces at personal capacity? If not, then you are not in the position to comment on its professionalism and training standards prior to the Persian Gulf War (1991).

Iraq used to be a role-model for the so-called Third World Countries in the matters of military capability during the years (1988 - 1991). However, Iraq committed a major blunder by challenging US interests in the Middle East and paid a hefty price for it. Look at its situation now, it is pitiful.

Saddam Hussein thought that the US was inept and lacked the political will for a major conflict since Vietnam episode. Such premature thinking got him killed and his country destroyed.

again Stupid answer .. you think its 90's ? dude its 2016 , we got 120+ nukes in our stocks .. armed within days .. Any attack to neutralize the sites can create havoc .. you think they know everything ? hahah you gotta be kidding me ..
polishing the boots is one thing but stop blowing the Americans dude ..
no one is attacking Pakistan , and if anyone have this death wish , one can try ..

Pakistan is not threatening the US interest in region , we are not Stupid .. we are playing our cards nicely .. US humiliate itself in Vietnam , than Afghanistan and Iraq ... go and read about the recent attack on American soldiers in Afghanistan .. lol so much for a Super power hahahah
and you are saying by attacking Pakistan , destroying the Infrastructure they can hold a 0.5 million armed Rebel forces along with 2 million armed Tribal's ? hahahahahhaha dude need to come back to reality ..
US and its force based on its Technology , in the mountains of FATA these tech's wont work if it was than US would have won the war in Afghanistan long ago ..
the Tribal's know these mountains as they grow up there , and if you think US along with its 1 or 2 lac army can pass through without getting IED attack or ambushes .. than you need some help

Really? How many Pakistani will die as well? Ever thought of this?

Many will die , along with the US army ... that is why i say attacking Pakistan will be end of US interest in region , along with every single Base US had ... no country will be safe ..

You think that every Pakistani is a Rambo or something? That Pakistani do not have families and other stuff to worry about? Your perceptions are utterly unrealistic.

Not rambo but crazy ... lol few bunch of Afghans with 70 era guns are making the hell out of US and 40+ Nato Armies , so Imagine what our tribal backed by Army can do ... hahaha dude when it comes to do or die .. the nation will stand up . no one want or will wait for oppressors to come and kill your family only Pu$$ies like you can do... rest will stand up .
even go to Interior sindh and in the areas like " Kache " you will find Armed Dakoo with Sophisticated weapons ..

China and Russia will try to prevent a (hypothetical) conflict between US and Pakistan through diplomatic channels and pressure.

And which US military bases are you talking about? Those in the Middle East and Afghanistan? You expect Pakistan to nuke these nations?

And what do you think will happen in return?

every single Base in region can be easily hit .. and what makes you think we wont ? lol nukes are for your marriage ? hahahaha or General will use it on Shab-e-barat ? lol ?
if Pakistan existence in under threat , US bases will be hit , not just by nukes but can also be hit be conventional weapons .. our Army don't have bullet-less guns' hahah they can fire back ...

American economy is way too enormous to collapse under pressure of a single major conflict. If events such as Great Depression, World War II and Cold War couldn't damage American economy long-term, a conflict with Pakistan won't either.

US is not a paper tiger; it is a legitimate superpower.

again this shows you know jack shit about how the war's been fought .. you know how much fire power is required to completely destroy a army size of Pakistan ? and you think that's it ? logistics and other ?
American can anyway invade Pakistan , no doubt about it .. but sustaining in Pakistan will destroy US economy .. and i doubt Russian or Chinese along with ME will stand watch .. again these kind of Things happen in US movies or their TV series .. not in reality .. Simple thing is they can fight like a coward with proxies .. That's it .. they dont have balls to fight a standing army directly .. look what they did with Iran ... lol last time i checked Iran is not under US hahaha

You think that Pakistani are crazy? You need to read American history.

1. Americans exterminated a race because they didn't like it.
2. Americans have killed more Americans then any other nation in the world and still have one of the highest rates of violence in the world.
3. Americans have actual history of using weapons of mass destruction during conflicts.

Few nations rival Americans in sheer brutality.

And no! 20 nukes won't end the world. Don't be naive.

again , you think american are robots ? lol common man " uthane ki bhi limit hoti hai " hahahaha
have you ever read about the Tribal history ? have you ever read about them ? again have you ever read about the Iraq war ? go and read ... American always rely on Proxy , nothing more ... last time they attack a country, and they lost 55K soldiers , and return home like a loser ...

20 Nukes wont Destroy the world but it will make it black market to be bought by ISIS and other terrorist Organizations .. that will destroy world peace forever .. you dont need thousand nukes to destroy a Country .. few detonation can Fcuk the world up along with its Climate ..
but i forget that i am replying to a kid who just end watching Avenger series or Playing Call of Duty

 

[rockstar08]

Hi,

Just ask the pain of helplessness from those looking at the salala check post strike.

what please do mentioned what happen after that UNPROVOKED attack ? we kick your avenger army out of Shamsi air base along with we hold pampers for your Army hahahaha good luck cleaning the shit out of your soldiers a$$'s ..

If you had a real PHD degree---you would not be waitng on tables---but getting paid 150K +++ a year------.

In a country where i will be suspect as a brown Terrorist ? lol i rather make less but live with dignity ... not interested in licking spit of goora like other Pakistani's like you

But when you go to Lalu Khet to get your degree or put a gun to the head of your professor or buy it fake online---I guess you will be waiting table.

i know that because one of cousins had a PHD in veterenary medicine from a famous univ in punjab in veterenary medicine or something similar----.

He was so pathetic in his level of education that he feared for asking a job a nurse at a veterinary clinic---imagine aphd---so that is what your fake PHD gets you.

i am sure you heard of that kids Quote " Jo kehta hai khud hi hota hai " , maybe you have a fake degree as i doubt you can get into any college in US but for me i am studying in one of the nice University in my City ..

but a person with in his period can only talk the way you do so i leave that to your age ... old age bring so many issues some are related to mental health

I just smile at your post---because I understand the pain that you are going thru finding that how incompetent and weak your military is ----. I understand the suffering----it does not go away even when you switch passports----.

my army is weak or strong that does not bother you, right ? you live in a country you army is strong .. so keep shouting USA outside White house until they throw you out by calling a terrorist
but apart from that, no matter how much you mumble about your army might, you still cant do shit for Pakistan as we become the Nuclear power and 6th Largest army ..
and wake me up when your army attack us we can provide some Pampers for them to fight lol

And for your other silly comments---as I have said similar brutally rude and obnoxious things to my mother and father when I was a teenager---I can understand your pain---and what you are saying---.

Pain ? lol i laugh my a$$ out while reading you deluded posts .. a self proclaimed Avenger army .. or maybe you just bought a new COD game and play it
i suggest you to see TV series " The last resort " it can satisfy your old dreams

It is just a matter of time---when you will start to understand----.

Understand what ? that your army need pampers to fight in Afghanistan
our tribal kids are better than that ...

 

[LeGenD]

lol and what stop US ?

Decision of Pakistani leadership to cooperate with US.

i did know Nawaz or Raheel blow Obama ? hahah we are hearing that same nonsense from May 2011 when US played the drama of OBL assassination ..no one is underestimating US , but dont ever Underestimate Pakistani People and their Potential to die for their Country .. Patriots are not just in US , when it comes to people Existance even a person with coward heart can hold a weapon and shoot ..

What drama?

Anybody can learn how to a shoot a gun but this knowledge doesn't makes that person a professional. This is why a country creates an army; an organization whose individuals undergo years of rigorous training to hone their combat skills and learn tactics to tackle (internal and/or external) threats, when the need arises.

I do not underestimate people in general.

these are nothing but Rants , this and that .. if's and buts .. i am talking about Ground realities which you are far from ..
US wont declare that they have knowledge but , how do you know they got location ? you work in CIA ? lol

they know our Military and people that is why they keep their dreams inside their pants to attack Pakistan directly ..
if you are dumb enough to understand the simple fact than i cant help you

Do you have an iota of idea about the level of resources and assets US have fielded to acquire vital information from different parts of the world? Should I make a list? It will be a lengthy read, mind you.

Pakistani strategic areas have been marked: http://fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/facility/ (and are being constantly monitored from surveillance assets in space).

American sources are known to disclose quantity of Pakistani nukes on yearly basis and they are aware of the fact that Pakistani nukes are normally kept in disassembled form due to security-related concerns. They are also aware of the fact that Pakistani nukes are not stored in a single location.

US doesn't needs to track location of every nuke in the inventory of Pakistan, US have marked strategic areas of Pakistan where such devices are likely to be kept due to security-related considerations. You don't hide a nuke in the basement of a home, do you?

Wherever nukes are kept, appropriate security measures are in place to safeguard them and such measures attract attention of military planners and observors from afar through appropriate monitoring processes. This is how locations are designated as strategic in nature and marked.

In case of a major conflict (God forbid), US might attack all known strategic areas of Pakistan with overwhelming firepower to destroy majority of the strategic assets and relevant storage facilities in a short span of time. US have an (official) First-Strike Policy for a conflict against another nuclear-armed nation.

It is really ironic that you are lecturing me about ground realities when your posts are utterly devoid of them.

i never claim that we will won or anyone can win from US , but if we lose they will lose the region .. the entire US might in this region will be in to ashes .. along with their ability to Fight oversea's .. as Pakistan will not go down without a fight .. if you think that its some Hollywood movie and Optimus prime along with Avengers are coming than i guess you should stop smoking that cheap drugs you are doing ...

You don't read much, do you?

Americans are ahead of us in most areas. They have massive advantage in the matters of resources, firepower, reach and situational awareness; they are capable of crippling us before we can inflict some serious damage.

They can attack us from the air and oceanic environment. They don't need boots on the ground for this purpose.

Holistically speaking, they will suffer some casualties but Pakistan will loose everything. Clear enough?

again Stupid answer .. you think its 90's ? dude its 2016 , we got 120+ nukes in our stocks .. armed within days .. Any attack to neutralize the sites can create havoc .. you think they know everything ? hahah you gotta be kidding me ..

US have;

1. Thousands of nukes
2. Global strike capability
3. Hundreds of 'deployed' warheads (on red alert status 24/7)

Don't even think about a nuclear conflict with US.

polishing the boots is one thing but stop blowing the Americans dude ..
no one is attacking Pakistan , and if anyone have this death wish , one can try ..

By the grace of Allah Almighty, I am an independent person. I do not polish boots of anyone but I am also realistic and fully understand the limits of my nation.

Hopefully nobody will attack Pakistan but we should be realistic in our assessments. Pakistan isn't the sole nuclear power in the world and doesn't have global strike capability either. There are nations in this world who can destroy Pakistan on moment's notice.

Pakistan is not threatening the US interest in region , we are not Stupid .. we are playing our cards nicely .. US humiliate itself in Vietnam , than Afghanistan and Iraq ... go and read about the recent attack on American soldiers in Afghanistan .. lol so much for a Super power hahahah

US didn't humiliate itself in those nations, rather damaged them to such an extent that they will continue to burn for years to come. Iraq, in particular, is in danger of disintegration.

On a broader level, US is doing just fine while Iraq and Afghanistan are burning. Do you see any hope for recovery of Iraq and Afghanistan in the near future?

Your assumptions are childish and immature.

and you are saying by attacking Pakistan , destroying the Infrastructure they can hold a 0.5 million armed Rebel forces along with 2 million armed Tribal's ? hahahahahhaha dude need to come back to reality ..

What can millions of (potential) rebels do if they are relentlessly bombed from air?

US and its force based on its Technology , in the mountains of FATA these tech's wont work if it was than US would have won the war in Afghanistan long ago ..
the Tribal's know these mountains as they grow up there , and if you think US along with its 1 or 2 lac army can pass through without getting IED attack or ambushes .. than you need some help

No area is safe from external attacks in modern times. Mountains and caves cannot save you. Check this example: Taliban Cave Closing via JDAM | Military.com

When US attacked Afghanistan, hundreds of Taliban and Al-Qaeda members sought refuge in the mountains of Tora Bora and felt that they would be safe in this region but this was a mistake. Many died during the battle of Tora Bora and survivors decided to flee to Pakistan. Moreover, US eliminated a large number of individuals through drone strikes in mountainous regions inside Pakistan during a span of several years afterwards.

Afghanistan doesn't have a professional army, important infrastructure and industrial capability that US can decimate to cripple the country and rollback its progress. Afghanistan is already crippled and warlord culture prevails over there. Even if it is militarily occupied, little can be done to address its problems because they are a product of long-term and deeply rooted internal rivalries, lack of education and poor lifestyle. One will not gain much from occupation of Afghanistan in military terms. However, US can extract natural resources of Afghanistan at will, if it wants to, but this would be a political decision.

Many will die , along with the US army ... that is why i say attacking Pakistan will be end of US interest in region , along with every single Base US had ... no country will be safe ..

We cannot destroy US military capability. Don't be naive.

Not rambo but crazy ... lol few bunch of Afghans with 70 era guns are making the hell out of US and 40+ Nato Armies , so Imagine what our tribal backed by Army can do ... hahaha dude when it comes to do or die .. the nation will stand up . no one want or will wait for oppressors to come and kill your family only Pu$$ies like you can do... rest will stand up .
even go to Interior sindh and in the areas like " Kache " you will find Armed Dakoo with Sophisticated weapons ..

Really? Show me this hell...

US military forces toppled Taliban-led regime, crippled Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan (and Pakistan), denied Taliban and Al-Qaeda members foothold in many parts of Afghanistan for several years and killed thousands of them in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) thus far. However, problems of Afghanistan are deeper then the matters of Taliban and Al-Qaeda network and they require long-term commitment from the international community to address. It remains to be seen, how serious US is about addressing the issues of Afghanistan. Time will tell.

Taliban and Al-Qaeda members are cowards; they do not wear uniform (so they cannot be easily identified) and rely upon asymmetric tactics to target interests of US and its allies in the region (e.g. suicide attacks; IED-based attacks and vice versa). They understand that they cannot defeat US military forces in battles so they primarily target those Afghans who want to rebuild Afghanistan and cooperate with US in this regard; their objective is to hamper development and discourage other Afghans from supporting Americans in rebuilding effort. If you perceive these tactics as victory of Afghanistan then I pity your IQ level. Taliban and Al-Qaeda members are mostly hurting Afghans and sabotaging the recovery process of the nation at large with such tactics; they are not good for this country.

---

Afghans are relatively more battle-hardened and have simpler lifestyles then Pakistani on average. Situation of Pakistan is holistically different then that of Afghanistan. Unlike Afghanistan, Pakistan have a lot to loose in a major conflict. While some Pakistani tribes apparently match the resilience and qualities of Afghan tribes, they do not represent majority of the country and neither they can be expected to defend the entire country from US aggression; their resistance effort will be limited to areas under their control at maximum. However, US military forces can wipe out their settlements and force them to flee to Afghanistan but US military forces can hit them inside Afghanistan as well. Tribal forces cannot defeat a professional army in modern times, period.

every single Base in region can be easily hit .. and what makes you think we wont ? lol nukes are for your marriage ? hahahaha or General will use it on Shab-e-barat ? lol ?
if Pakistan existence in under threat , US bases will be hit , not just by nukes but can also be hit be conventional weapons .. our Army don't have bullet-less guns' hahah they can fire back ...

We might get the opportunity to fire a few missiles towards such targets, but if US is coming after us, expect it to protect its military installations in the surrounding areas beforehand through ABM systems.

again this shows you know jack shit about how the war's been fought .. you know how much fire power is required to completely destroy a army size of Pakistan ? and you think that's it ? logistics and other ?
American can anyway invade Pakistan , no doubt about it .. but sustaining in Pakistan will destroy US economy .. and i doubt Russian or Chinese along with ME will stand watch .. again these kind of Things happen in US movies or their TV series .. not in reality .. Simple thing is they can fight like a coward with proxies .. That's it .. they dont have balls to fight a standing army directly .. look what they did with Iran ... lol last time i checked Iran is not under US hahaha

Are you aware of the sheer disparity between the military budget of both nations?

US defense budget = 600 billion USD on annual basis
Pakistan defense budget = 7 billion USD on annual basis

US military is much larger and much better equipped then that of Pakistan. In addition, US have vastly superior industrial capability, logistics capability and economy to sustain a conflict. Pakistan will be destroyed in a span of month or two (assuming a conventional scenario) and minutes (assuming a nuclear scenario).

A regional conflict cannot exhaust US economy.

US GDP = 17968 billion USD
Pakistan GDP = 271 billion USD

Pakistan will run out of resources much earlier then the US.

----

As for intervention of other countries in a hypothetical conflict between US and Pakistan, did any country even sent troops to Pakistan to support it during wars with India? Nobody wants to play with fire. As I pointed out earlier, foreign countries will try to diffuse tensions between US and Pakistan through diplomatic channels at maximum.

again , you think american are robots ? lol common man " uthane ki bhi limit hoti hai " hahahaha
have you ever read about the Tribal history ? have you ever read about them ? again have you ever read about the Iraq war ? go and read ... American always rely on Proxy , nothing more ... last time they attack a country, and they lost 55K soldiers , and return home like a loser ...

Bro, I don't want to comment on your IQ level but your statements really show it. I have read a lot of history. Its time for you to start reading.

No, Americans are not robots, but they have build the most powerful nation in modern times. No shame in acknowledging this fact.

If our tribal forces are so mighty, why don't we send them to capture Kashmir? Your assumptions are ridiculous. Modern wars are different from the battles of 19th century.

US have history of defeating great powers in conflicts; the British Empire, Germany, Japan, USSR and Iraq.

Can you say the same about Pakistan? Pakistan haven't won a single war [yet]. Your hype is misplaced.

20 Nukes wont Destroy the world but it will make it black market to be bought by ISIS and other terrorist Organizations .. that will destroy world peace forever .. you dont need thousand nukes to destroy a Country .. few detonation can Fcuk the world up along with its Climate ..
but i forget that i am replying to a kid who just end watching Avenger series or Playing Call of Duty

ISIS will never get nukes.

And no, a few nukes won't harm world's climatic conditions; this is just scare-mongering from such educationists.

No, I am not the kid here! You are however. You think that Pakistan can pull-off Call of Duty against the greatest power in the world in a hypothetical conflict, you are deluded and unrealistic, you don't understand horrors of war and annihilation.

 

[rockstar08]

Decision of Pakistani leadership to cooperate with US.

Dude you are a kid ... after OBL drama , what stopped US ? haha Pakistani leadership corporation my A$$ , they hide OBL according to US .. so dont tell me they stopped because suddenly their love awake for Pakistan ..

What drama?

Anybody can learn how to a shoot a gun but this knowledge doesn't makes that person a professional. This is why a country creates an army; an organization whose individuals undergo years of rigorous training to hone their combat skills and learn tactics to tackle (internal and/or external) threats, when the need arises.

I do not underestimate people in general.

The Drama of assassination of OBL in Pakistan ..
yeah and that army of almost 0.7 million will see their country on fire and do nothing hahahah dude , i highly recommend you stop smoking whatever you are ..

Do you have an iota of idea about the level of resources and assets US have fielded to acquire vital information from different parts of the world? Should I make a list? It will be a lengthy read, mind you.

Pakistani strategic areas have been marked: http://fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/facility/ (and are being constantly monitored from surveillance assets in space).

American sources are known to disclose quantity of Pakistani nukes on yearly basis and they are aware of the fact that Pakistani nukes are normally kept in disassembled form due to security-related concerns. They are also aware of the fact that Pakistani nukes are not stored in a single location.

US doesn't needs to track location of every nuke in the inventory of Pakistan, US have marked strategic areas of Pakistan where such devices are likely to be kept due to security-related considerations. You don't hide a nuke in the basement of a home, do you?

Wherever nukes are kept, appropriate security measures are in place to safeguard them and such measures attract attention of military planners and observors from afar through appropriate monitoring processes. This is how locations are designated as strategic in nature and marked.

In case of a major conflict (God forbid), US might attack all known strategic areas of Pakistan with overwhelming firepower to destroy majority of the strategic assets and relevant storage facilities in a short span of time. US have an (official) First-Strike Policy for a conflict against another nuclear-armed nation.

It is really ironic that you are lecturing me about ground realities when your posts are utterly devoid of them.

Holy Potatoes , i mean are you for real ? a Country that create nukes but does not know how to hide them hahahah
so what ? Russian knows the Nukes sites of US ? hahaha
you are deluded by Youtube Videos or maybe you are applying for Green card hahaha

they might be aware of the information they get from sources , and those which the ISI let them to have it .. you seems like a deluded guy , who still think Pakistan army wear Salwar kameez and have only rusty Ak-47s hahaha like they show in US movies ..
or maybe you are fan of James bond movies ..
the link you send me on a forum and you think our Agencies does have that ? you think they cant hide what they want to hide ahahahhaaha ok i rest my case here sir .. your level of intelligence is high lol

You don't read much, do you?

Americans are ahead of us in most areas. They have massive advantage in the matters of resources, firepower, reach and situational awareness; they are capable of crippling us before we can inflict some serious damage.

They can attack us from the air and oceanic environment. They don't need boots on the ground for this purpose.

Holistically speaking, they will suffer some casualties but Pakistan will loose everything. Clear enough?

i read more than you do ..and our conversation is prove of it ..

i never claim american are behind us , read again as i doubt you will .. we are not fighting on their mainland ... but the forces they will deploy near Pakistan ..
we are not Iraq or Afghanistan ..
if Air power were winning wars for US than they would never lose Vietnam , Iraq and Afghanistan ..
that is what you think , but i believe they will be suffering a lot more than you can think off ..
as i say, it will be end of US interest and domination in region ..

US have;

1. Thousands of nukes
2. Global strike capability
3. Hundreds of 'deployed' warheads (on red alert status 24/7)

Don't even think about a nuclear conflict with US.

same old blah blah ... anything new ? humara kutta kutta , unka kutta tommy ?

By the grace of Allah Almighty, I am an independent person. I do not polish boots of anyone but I am also realistic and fully understand the limits of my nation.

Hopefully nobody will attack Pakistan but we should be realistic in our assessments. Pakistan isn't the sole nuclear power in the world and doesn't have global strike capability either. There are nations in this world who can destroy Pakistan on moment's notice.

No you clearly don't .. you still think we are in 90's have 50's tech our soldier wear salwaar kameez , with not bullet proof vest or any gear .. and one American soldier can take 1000 Pakistani soldiers .. i get it where you are coming from ..
just like there are nation that can Destroy Pakistan, Pakistan is capable of Destroying many nations ..
including your demi God US

US didn't humiliate itself in those nations, rather damaged them to such an extent that they will continue to burn for years to come. Iraq, in particular, is in danger of disintegration.

On a broader level, US is doing just fine while Iraq and Afghanistan are burning. Do you see any hope for recovery of Iraq and Afghanistan in the near future?

Your assumptions are childish and immature.

yeah yeah we all know US win ,they destroy Taliban , those are Minions attacking in kabul , and there are martians in Iraq and other countries .. we get it .. anything new ?
i don't see Afghanistan breaking apart ? last i check Taliban blow some American soldiers .. they attack whenever they want ..
those countries are breaking apart because of their internal conflict not because of US might ...
your mighty US army hides in their base like Pu$$y when it comes to attack ISIS lol

What can millions of (potential) rebels do if they are relentlessly bombed from air?

Again utterly Stupid argument , if Air bombing winning war's than why need ground troops ? lol you are smoking high man..

Really? Show me this hell...

US military forces toppled Taliban-led regime, crippled Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan (and Pakistan), denied Taliban and Al-Qaeda members foothold in many parts of Afghanistan for several years and killed thousands of them in Afghanistan (and Pakistan) thus far. However, problems of Afghanistan are deeper then the matters of Taliban and Al-Qaeda network and they require long-term commitment from the international community to address. It remains to be seen, how serious US is about addressing the issues of Afghanistan. Time will tell.

Taliban and Al-Qaeda members are cowards; they do not wear uniform (so they cannot be easily identified) and rely upon asymmetric tactics to target interests of US and its allies in the region (e.g. suicide attacks; IED-based attacks and vice versa). They understand that they cannot defeat US military forces in battles so they primarily target those Afghans who want to rebuild Afghanistan and cooperate with US in this regard; their objective is to hamper development and discourage other Afghans from supporting Americans in rebuilding effort. If you perceive these tactics as victory of Afghanistan then I pity your IQ level. Taliban and Al-Qaeda members are mostly hurting Afghans and sabotaging the recovery process of the nation at large with such tactics; they are not good for this country.

---

Afghans are relatively more battle-hardened and have simpler lifestyles then Pakistani on average. Situation of Pakistan is holistically different then that of Afghanistan. Unlike Afghanistan, Pakistan have a lot to loose in a major conflict. While some Pakistani tribes apparently match the resilience and qualities of Afghan tribes, they do not represent majority of the country and neither they can be expected to defend the entire country from US aggression; their resistance effort will be limited to areas under their control at maximum. However, US military forces can wipe out their settlements and force them to flee to Afghanistan but US military forces can hit them inside Afghanistan as well. Tribal forces cannot defeat a professional army in modern times, period.

its nothing but rants .. hoo haa coming from you .. we all seen what is happening and what will be happening .. wake me up when Afghanistan have peace , along with Iraq ..
let along attacking and taking over Pakistan, Those American cant even defeat the Taliban , some bunch of Stupid Pashtoons with rusty Ak's lol

We cannot destroy US military capability. Don't be naive.

again you did not read .. i never say we can, but we will make sure US will not remain a Super power .. along with their every regional bases will be nuclear wasteland ..

Are you aware of the sheer disparity between the military budget of both nations?

US defense budget = 600 billion USD on annual basis
Pakistan defense budget = 7 billion USD on annual basis

US military is much larger and much better equipped then that of Pakistan. In addition, US have vastly superior industrial capability, logistics capability and economy to sustain a conflict. Pakistan will be destroyed in a span of month or two (assuming a conventional scenario) and minutes (assuming a nuclear scenario).

A regional conflict cannot exhaust US economy.

US GDP = 17968 billion USD
Pakistan GDP = 271 billion USD

Pakistan will run out of resources much earlier then the US.

----

As for intervention of other countries in a hypothetical conflict between US and Pakistan, did any country even sent troops to Pakistan to support it during wars with India? Nobody wants to play with fire. As I pointed out earlier, foreign countries will try to diffuse tensions between US and Pakistan through diplomatic channels at maximum.

yeah and they use 600 Billion on attacking Pakistan ? where did the budget even come into this equation ? lol
stop embarrassing yourself .. Pakistan will be destroyed in less than month , what i am saying US can never sustain in Pakistan, they cant fight the war inside Pakistan .. and attacking by air will not win this war for US .. i hope i make my point clear or i have to write in Urdu for you ?

you think China and Russians will watch , lol what happen in Syria ? US is mumbling about attacking Syria , and look what putin did .. humiliate US ,ask them to shut up .. and now Russians are in Syria defending Assad ... China is there in case of US attacked Iran .. you think Pakistan is some African country that US can invade ..
wake up dude ... you have to come back to reality ..

Bro, I don't want to comment on your IQ level but your statements really show it. I have read a lot of history. Its time for you to start reading.

No, Americans are not robots, but they have build the most powerful nation in modern times. No shame in acknowledging this fact.

If our tribal forces are so mighty, why don't we send them to capture Kashmir? Your assumptions are ridiculous. Modern wars are different from the battles of 19th century.

US have history of defeating great powers in conflicts; the British Empire, Germany, Japan, USSR and Iraq.

Can you say the same about Pakistan? Pakistan haven't won a single war [yet]. Your hype is misplaced.

my IQ is way higher than you ... i am 200% sure of that .. after reading your COD style comments lol
yeah US is powerful country , but they are still humans ..

again stupid comparison , Tribal's are best fighters in their homeland , they are not trained for invading , but defending their homes , homeland , they will do anything .. and by anything you can see what they did in Afghanistan ..
do we have peace in Afghanistan ? lol

German would have defend itself if they couldn't make the mistake of attacking USSR ..
US have landed on Europe when UK and France have start bombing the Nazis's and USSR were on the move to berlin ..read history before opening your mouth ..

ok ok please spare me of that BS , we lost 47 , 65, 71 we surrender ,and 99 we lose .. blah blah blah ...

ISIS will never get nukes.

And no, a few nukes won't harm world's climatic conditions; this is just scare-mongering from such educationists.

No, I am not the kid here! You are however. You think that Pakistan can pull-off Call of Duty against the greatest power in the world in a hypothetical conflict, you are deluded and unrealistic, you don't understand horrors of war and annihilation.

Oh we have Mr.All know here
hahaha please go and play " kanche " as your IQ level is best for that ..

 

[LeGenD]

Dude you are a kid ... after OBL drama , what stopped US ? haha Pakistani leadership corporation my A$$ , they hide OBL according to US .. so dont tell me they stopped because suddenly their love awake for Pakistan ..

My personal assessment about you:

1. You are immature
2. You cannot carry a conversation properly
3. You need to learn ethics of a meaningful conversation
4. You are ignorant of Pakistan's contribution to US-led [War on Terror] in Afghanistan (and Pakistan)
5. You are ignorant of the ground realities of the world at large
6. Your faith on the myth of Pakistan being a martial race and invincibility of its security apparatus is misplaced

---

Commitment of Pakistan to [War on Terror] in the Af-Pak region:

Pakistan have history of cooperating with the United States (US) in the hunt of militants who sought refuge inside Pakistan from Afghanistan. Pakistan also granted US access to Pakistani territory to establish its Southern Supply Route to support its military operations in Afghanistan, and eventually commenced its own military operations against militant hideouts (and their Pakistani collaborators) to evict them from Pakistani territory and/or eliminate them whenever possible.

Pervez Musharraf was absolutely committed to tackling the menace of terrorism/militancy within Pakistan since the 9/11 event and prevent militants from using Pakistani territory as a staging ground to conduct operations in Afghanistan (and Pakistan). Current COAS, Raheel Sharif, is also following in his footsteps but difference between the two is that Raheel Sharif is not interested in politics.

---

Professional assessments of disparity between the power of US and Pakistan:

My decision was on the well-being of my people and the best interests of my country - Pakistan always comes first. I war-gamed the United States as an adversary. There would be a violent and angry reaction if we didn't support the United States. Thus the question was: if we do not join them, can we confront them and withstand the onslaught? The answer was no, we could not, on three counts.

First was our military weakness as compared with the strength of the United States. Our military forces would be destroyed.

Second was our economic weakness. We had no oil, and we did not had the capacity to sustain our economy in the face of an attack by the United States.

Third, and worst of all, was our social weakness. We lack the homogeneity to galvanize the entire nation into an active confrontation. We could not endure a military confrontation with the United States from any point of view.

I also analyzed our national interest. First, India had already tried to step in by offering its bases to the United States. If we did not join the United States, it would accept India's offer. What would happen then? India would gain a golden opportunity with regard to Kashmir. The Indians might be tempted to undertake a limited offensive there; or, more likely, they would work with the United States and the United Nations to turn the present situation into a permanent status quo. The United States would certainly oblige.

Second, the security of our strategic assets would be jeopardized. We did not want to lose or damage the military parity that we have achieved with India by becoming a nuclear weapons state. It is no secret that the United States has never been comfortable with a Muslim country acquiring nuclear weapons, and the Americans undoubtedly would have taken the opportunity of an invasion to destroy such weapons. And India, needless to say, would have loved to assist the United States to the hilt.

Source: In the Line of Fire (2003)

According to the Defense Policy of 2004 and the Joint Strategic Directive of 2007 - both which were still operative - the only designated hostile country was India. The two documents specifically directed the armed forces to maintain good relations and avoid confrontation with the US. Pakistan's defense capabilities were designed and developed for a one front conflict situation. Despite tensions, including several border raids and differences on a number of issues, neither the political leadership nor the defense policy makers imagine the US would actually stoop to such a low blow as they inflicted on Pakistan on May 2, 2011. On this assumption, Pakistan's air defense capabilities on the western border were deployed in "peace time" mode.

Moreover, there was a tremendous military asymmetry and technological gap between the armed forces of the two countries. This enabled the US to avoid Pakistan's air defense capabilities and deterred Pakistan from taking any action that risked escalating the situation beyond control. The US attack helicopters were equipped with stealth technology, night vision, sound suppression, and fast and low flying nap of the earth flight capabilities. The US intruders were backed by US AWACS and F-16 Fighters across the border to respond to any sign of an PAF interception attempt.

Source: Abbottabad Commission Report (2011)

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Why US is not attacking Pakistan?

US is not attacking Pakistan due to a number of reasons:

1. Disagreements aside, Pakistan prefers to be on good terms with US. FYI: Pakistan
2. Pakistan was not responsible for sheltering Osama Bin Laden.
3. Pakistan haven't threatened US of dire consequences for conducting Operation Neptune Spear*
5. Pakistan is not seeking a confrontation with US.
6. Pakistan have history of cooperating with US on the matters of [War on Terror] since 9/11 event; Pakistan continues to shed blood for US-led [War on Terror] in the Af-Pak region.
7. Destruction of Pakistan is not productive for US foreign policy; this development would project US as an unreliable country to the entire world

*The official designation of (unilateral) American military operation against Osama Bin Laden on May 2 inside Pakistan.

---

Who is the kid?

Pakistan's military professionals, policy-makers and informed individuals such as myself are on the same page.

The Drama of assassination of OBL in Pakistan ..
yeah and that army of almost 0.7 million will see their country on fire and do nothing hahahah dude , i highly recommend you stop smoking whatever you are ..

Even if both countries grant each other sufficient time to prepare for the war, Pakistan would still be at a disadvantage.

US possesses:

1. ICBMs (to project firepower from vast distances)

2. Long-range bombers (to project firepower from vast distances)

3. Technological superiority (in general)

4. Multi-layered surveillance network (for situational awareness)

5. Aircraft carriers (to project firepower from oceanic environments)

6. Mid-air refueling capabilities (to increase the range of aircraft)

7. Radar-jamming technologies

8. Long-range cruise missiles

9. ABM systems

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As I pointed out earlier, US is in the position to dictate terms of this hypothetical conflict.

Holy Potatoes , i mean are you for real ? a Country that create nukes but does not know how to hide them hahahah
so what ? Russian knows the Nukes sites of US ? hahaha
you are deluded by Youtube Videos or maybe you are applying for Green card hahaha

Why do you think that countries such as USA and Russia have developed second strike capability?

It is possible to figure out (and/or predict) location of strategic assets (and/or areas) of a country with use of 'appropriate' tools and understanding of these matters. However, you won't find much information about this topic due to obvious reasons. An American organization Defense Threat Reduction Agency is tasked with exploring methods to detect nukes in hostile environments.

Some hints:

But the unique properties of radiological and nuclear weapons also mean they can be detected, identified and tracked in a way other weapons of mass destruction cannot. Our scientists, technicians, and military experts are working with industry and other agencies and governments to combat these weapons. We are advancing the technologies and creating the tools that can find these weapons long before they can harm our warfighters, our allies and partners, and the United States.

The solutions we’re crafting are as unique as the problem, and we’re solving problems that were considered hopeless just a few years ago. We’re developing nuclear detection technologies that work on land, on the sea and in the air. We’re producing handheld detectors that are rugged, reliable and easy to use, and larger detectors that can detect weapons and materials from incredible distances. And it’s not just the problems known today – we’re looking far ahead, anticipating what our adversaries will be doing in 20 years – and developing those countermeasures today.

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Our satellites are fool-proof in detecting and pin-pointing the locations of enriched uranium throughout the world.

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And as I pointed out earlier, it is not necessary to detect location of every nuke of a country to ensure success of a First Strike plan. A country may develop multiple storage facilities for nukes in different areas of its landscape and disperse them accordingly but this tactic doesn't guarantees their safety from an external threat as capable as US.

US have developed and fielded a multi-layered surveillance system to grant it unprecedented situational awareness of important developments around the world.

they might be aware of the information they get from sources , and those which the ISI let them to have it .. you seems like a deluded guy , who still think Pakistan army wear Salwar kameez and have only rusty Ak-47s hahaha like they show in US movies ..
or maybe you are fan of James bond movies ..
the link you send me on a forum and you think our Agencies does have that ? you think they cant hide what they want to hide ahahahhaaha ok i rest my case here sir .. your level of intelligence is high lol

This statement deserves a facepalm.

Americans don't need ISI to gather sensitive information about Pakistani strategic assets. They can observe developments from space and other channels that are beyond the control of ISI and Pakistan at large.

For example: Sats Show Pakistan Super-Sizing Its Nuclear Weapons Complex | WIRED

i read more than you do ..and our conversation is prove of it ..

Joke of the century.

i never claim american are behind us , read again as i doubt you will .. we are not fighting on their mainland ... but the forces they will deploy near Pakistan ..
we are not Iraq or Afghanistan ..

Americans are absolutely aware of the fact that Pakistan represents a relatively greater challenge then Iraq and Afghanistan and they will assess their options against us accordingly, should the need arise (God forbid).

if Air power were winning wars for US than they would never lose Vietnam , Iraq and Afghanistan ..
that is what you think , but i believe they will be suffering a lot more than you can think off ..
as i say, it will be end of US interest and domination in region ..

Depends upon how aggressively air power is used. It can be used to bomb settlements indiscriminately and eliminate them but Americans haven't major exterminated settlements since World War II.

Americans prefer to minimize collateral damage and use precision munition to attack targets on the ground. However, an aggressive American administration can decide to give more freedom to US military planners to conduct military operations.

US did not loose in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan on military terms; US managed to occupy each nation for a long time and extracted resources from them. In-fact, US occupied Iraq and Afghanistan simultaneously for a span of several years which is really impressive. However, Americans failed to properly capitalize on its military gains in these countries due to lack of political will and/or short-term objectives for these ventures.

same old blah blah ... anything new ? humara kutta kutta , unka kutta tommy ?

Speechless, I see....

No you clearly don't .. you still think we are in 90's have 50's tech our soldier wear salwaar kameez , with not bullet proof vest or any gear .. and one American soldier can take 1000 Pakistani soldiers .. i get it where you are coming from ..
just like there are nation that can Destroy Pakistan, Pakistan is capable of Destroying many nations ..
including your demi God US

I know much more about Pakistan's security apparatus then you and your kind.

Also, how will Pakistan destroy US?

yeah yeah we all know US win ,they destroy Taliban , those are Minions attacking in kabul , and there are martians in Iraq and other countries .. we get it .. anything new ?
i don't see Afghanistan breaking apart ? last i check Taliban blow some American soldiers .. they attack whenever they want ..
those countries are breaking apart because of their internal conflict not because of US might ...
your mighty US army hides in their base like Pu$$y when it comes to attack ISIS lol

Americans do not perceive Taliban as a threat to its national security because Taliban have regional agenda. Americans perceive Al-Qaeda network as the real enemy in the Af-Pak region and have successfully routed it from this region. Taliban were targeted because they stood on the path between US and Al-Qaeda network in the Af-Pak region and refused to cooperate with US. However, Americans punished Taliban

Again utterly Stupid argument , if Air bombing winning war's than why need ground troops ? lol you are smoking high man..

1. Mind your language.
2. USAF packs sufficient firepower to bomb Pakistan 'back to stone age' and then some.

However, policy makers get to decide what they want to achieve in this conflict. If US decides to exterminate Pakistani populace, Pakistani people cannot do anything about it.

---

I will respond to your remaining arguments tomorrow.

 

[rockstar08]

My personal assessment about you:

1. You are immature
2. You cannot carry a conversation properly
3. You need to learn ethics of a meaningful conversation
4. You are ignorant of Pakistan's contribution to US-led [War on Terror] in Afghanistan (and Pakistan)
5. You are ignorant of the ground realities of the world at large
6. Your faith on the myth of Pakistan being a martial race and invincibility of its security apparatus is misplaced

here are my Assessment about you ..

1. You are Stupid
2. You are mis-informed
3. You are not Educated .
4. You like to copy paste stuff and think you are badA$$
5. you have no idea about warfare
6. you have no idea about Ground Realities
7. you are Stupid again ..

Why US is not attacking Pakistan?

US is not attacking Pakistan due to a number of reasons:

1. Disagreements aside, Pakistan prefers to be on good terms with US. FYI: Pakistan
2. Pakistan was not responsible for sheltering Osama Bin Laden.
3. Pakistan haven't threatened US of dire consequences for conducting Operation Neptune Spear*
5. Pakistan is not seeking a confrontation with US.
6. Pakistan have history of cooperating with US on the matters of [War on Terror] since 9/11 event; Pakistan continues to shed blood for US-led [War on Terror] in the Af-Pak region.
7. Destruction of Pakistan is not productive for US foreign policy; this development would project US as an unreliable country to the entire world

Why US is not Attacking Pakistan ?

1. They know they cant Win
2. Destruction of US presence in Region
3. putting the world and regions peace in Danger
4. thousands of US causalities
5. US can not Sustain a War with a Country like Pakistan
6. International Pressure
7. Threat to start a World war .

i can go on details with every single point but i am not interested in debating with Idiots who Copy paste stuff without using any Logic ..

You forget to Add US other weapons , i will help you

I am so scared ...........

Why do you think that countries such as USA and Russia have developed second strike capability?

It is possible to figure out (and/or predict) location of strategic assets (and/or areas) of a country with use of 'appropriate' tools and understanding of these matters. However, you won't find much information about this topic due to obvious reasons. An American organization Defense Threat Reduction Agency is tasked with exploring methods to detect nukes in hostile environments.

Again you have some serious Comprehension issues ..
They have Second Strike Capabilities .. but that does not mean we cant Launch our own in case we are verge to be collapsed ..
what you are doing , creating a hypothetical case with no Ground Realities .. and you have no idea about how a war will be fought between US and Pakistan ...
those Studies are just Assessments, Paper work nothing more than that .. the real world scenario will be way more different than anyone can work on .. oh but wait i forget i am debating with a 12 year old kid who love to copy paste stuff .

Joke of the century.

Trust me , the way you are, you are the Joke of Century .

Americans are absolutely aware of the fact that Pakistan represents a relatively greater challenge then Iraq and Afghanistan and they will assess their options against us accordingly, should the need arise (God forbid).

Have you ever thought that why US hesitate to attack Iran or NK ? North Korea has directly threat US , even to nuke their mainland .. you think US cant Achieve what they want ?
Attacking a country is one thing but sustain in a Battle , is completely different .. fighting a war in the streets on Tehran or NK , will cause massive destruction for US military , IED attacks , Ambushes , Rebels and so on .. you think a Country with no Infrastructure , Armed civilians will let Oppression forces roam freely ? LOL
dude you are just embarrassing yourself here by showing you know nothing of Modern Warfare , you are small kid who just like to play COD and copy paste stuff with no understanding of topic ...

Depends upon how aggressively air power is used. It can be used to bomb settlements indiscriminately and eliminate them but Americans haven't major exterminated settlements since World War II.

Americans prefer to minimize collateral damage and use precision munition to attack targets on the ground. However, an aggressive American administration can decide to give more freedom to US military planners to conduct military operations.

US did not loose in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan on military terms; US managed to occupy each nation for a long time and extracted resources from them. In-fact, US occupied Iraq and Afghanistan simultaneously for a span of several years which is really impressive. However, Americans failed to properly capitalize on its military gains in these countries due to lack of political will and/or short-term objectives for these ventures.

Americans have done it in every single battle they fought AFTER WW2 ... Vietnam , Afghanistan and Iraq .. they use the Air force in full capacity and yet failed to achieve what you can call a Complete Victory ..
Without Putting boots on ground you think a Country like Pakistan will go down ? hahaha you are not in your sense kid ..

American when it comes to war like Destruction , and they have proved it many times .. and i am sure they will do it again if Pakistan ever be attacked ( i know they cant ) ..

Ok Ok so here we are .. Pakistan lose all the wars with India but American did not lose any war on Military terms .. hahah do you even know the Objectives they attack Afghanistan and Iraq ? OBL was dead ? when where ? in Pakistan ? lol come again ..Iraq got WMD's oh wait they don't , lets plant a Democratic Govt and bring peace .. Do we have peace ?
last time i checked Iraq was burning ..
55K troops died .. and achieved what ? US withdraw from Vietnam .. Humiliated ..learn to live with this reality kid ..

What you are telling me that Pakistan will be a piece of Cake when they cant even do Jack shit about countries like Afghanistan and Iraq LOL .. trust i am literally laughing my A$$ out here

I know much more about Pakistan's security apparatus then you and your kind.

Also, how will Pakistan destroy US?

LOL who are you ? some Hawaldar standing guard at GHQ hahaha ?
your knowledge is based on copy Paste material nothing more than that .. proving your point by posting Youtube Videos lol hahahahaha i dont even have words for im-mature kids like you ..

Americans do not perceive Taliban as a threat to its national security because Taliban have regional agenda. Americans perceive Al-Qaeda network as the real enemy in the Af-Pak region and have successfully routed it from this region. Taliban were targeted because they stood on the path between US and Al-Qaeda network in the Af-Pak region and refused to cooperate with US. However, Americans punished Taliban

Ok so Taliban is not Threat to US ? lol i mean do you even know what you are writing kid ? are you in your senses ?

It's Official: Taliban Pose a Danger to the United States :: Middle East Quarterly

AQ ? do you even know majority of AQ leaders been Captured and Killed by Pakistan ? lol
American Punished who ? hahahaha
again Dude go and buy a TV or Laptop ..Radio will not take you anywhere ..
American are stuck in Afghanistan and now finding a way to come clean out the mess they created .. their policies been failed in the entire region , cause irreversible damage to countries like Pakistan , Afghanistan ,Iraq ,Libya , Syria and other ME countries ..
You think Taliban will give Afghanistan ? lol they day US leave Afghanistan Taliban will be ruling from Kabul within 6 months ..
if you call this a Victory than i cant do anything .. " Allah apko seehat day " ...

1. Mind your language.
2. USAF packs sufficient firepower to bomb Pakistan 'back to stone age' and then some.

However, policy makers get to decide what they want to achieve in this conflict. If US decides to exterminate Pakistani populace, Pakistani people cannot do anything about it.

I will respond to remaining arguments when I have time.

I reply to people in the language they understand

USAF have more than enough Firepower to send Pakistan back to Stone and even further .. but i stand with my point that Pakistan will retaliate in way that US will lose everything in the Region , their might in the region along with every active bases will be destroyed , interference of China and Russia will let US back off , risking a Nuclear Conflict with 3 Nuclear armed states for a War they can never win ...

If US decide to bomb Population Targets which i am sure they will , than the reaction from a Army that was created to protect the country will be harsh .. those weapons are not just for Show piece .. Pakistan claim its Weapons are mostly for India but when it comes to last resort they will be used on any enemy that Threat Pakistan and its Existence ..
Quote me if you have anything Logical , don't Copy paste stuff with Youtube videos , it means nothing to me it only make you look like a bigger fool ..

 

[B+ Dracula]

US & China now have India and Pakistan respectively as their proxies. I foresee a huge Indo-Pak war in the next 3 years.

too early....yes its impending but not so close