GE and Rolls Royce finalists for Chinese-Russian CR929 jet engine, designer says

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

ZHUHAI, China (Reuters) - General Electric (GE.N) and Rolls Royce (RR.L) are the two finalists to supply engines for a new long-haul jet developed by a Russian-Chinese joint venture that aims eventually to switch to a Sino-Russian engine, a chief designer of the aircraft said.

Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation and the Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd kickstarted full-scale development of the CR929 widebody jet program last year, to build an aircraft that can muscle into a lucrative market now dominated by Boeing Co’s (BA.N) 787 and Airbus SE’s (AIR.PA) A350 jets.

“We are now choosing one of two suppliers, General Electric’s GEnX and Rolls Royce’s Trent 7000,” Maxim Litvinov, one of the two chief designers, told Reuters on Wednesday, adding that the venture planned to make a decision by the first half of next year.

“But right now Russia’s United Engine Corporation and the Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) are also cooperating on creating a new engine,” he said, on the sidelines of Airshow China, where it unveiled a life-size model of the CR929’s cabin.

Priority when choosing suppliers will be given to Russian and Chinese firms, and then to Western firms with Russian or Chinese partners’ joint ventures, he said, adding that the basic principle should be that the firms offer competitive proposals.

In addition, current trade tensions between China and the United States, and U.S. sanctions against Russia, could be factored into the selection process, Litvinov said.

“Of course, this is a great risk, and that makes us take that into consideration and we do that,” he said.

“But in spite of all this, the potential suppliers are looking for some solutions how to avoid the situation and find any way to cooperate with us in our interests and in their own interests.”

He expected to receive the Sino-Russian engine by the end of the next decade and the venture would like the engine to have a thrust range of 35 tonnes, he added.

The venture, China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corp (CRAIC), said in May it had received proposals from seven foreign and local companies to supply the jet’s engine.

more at https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-cr929-jet-engine-designer-says-idUSKCN1NC179

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

@pakistanipower @500 @vostok

 

[Ultima Thule]

@pakistanipower @500 @vostok

Don't post always that type of useless threads again @undertakerwwefan you always open such a useless threads @undertakerwwefan

 

[Michael Corleone]

so they would buy western engine and build a new engine based on the existing design?

 

[The Accountant]

so they would buy western engine and build a new engine based on the existing design?

No they are hiring a western company to design engine for them so in fhort this engine design will be owned by the chinese and russian and they will learn the tech as well otherwise they could have simply by on off the shelf existing design readily available

 

[Cybernetics]

so they would buy western engine and build a new engine based on the existing design?

That would take too long. These large turbofans take more than a decade to develop from conception to being market ready.

Engine program to power CR929 developed by China is already underway, it will take a few years before it matures.

C919 currently uses the LEAP-1C engine from CFM(GE) and will be using that engine for the initial batch. Currently domestic manufacturing stands at 60% of the plane's value, the plan is to reach 100% domestic production of core components by 2025, which includes the engines. The engine to replace LEAP-1C would be CJ-1000AX which was unveiled in 2017, CJ-1000A was unveiled in 2012. Currently it is undergoing ground tests. Even with a domestic engine program, LEAP engine was chosen to enable early market entry of C919.

CJ-1000AX engine from AVIC

Just like C919, CR929 has a domestic engine program and will eventually be equipped with it. Domestic engine to power CR929 would be CJ-2000. It is currently under development.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Test Flights for China’s Troubled CR929 Jetliner Might Begin in 2023

China’s first indigenous wide-body, long-haul twinjet airliner, the much-delayed CRAIC CR929, will source most of its critical avionics and other key components from Western firms. The engines of this aircraft might also come from the West.

https://www.invests.com/2018/11/08/...-troubled-cr929-jetliner-might-begin-in-2023/

Zhuhai, China (4E) – China’s first indigenous wide-body, long-haul twinjet airliner, the much-delayed CRAIC CR929, will source most of its critical avionics and other key components from Western firms. The engines of this aircraft might also come from the West.

The CR929 will compete against the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 787. It’s being designed as a long-range twinjet airliner seating from 250 to 320 people.

The plane is being jointly developed by China and Russia through a joint venture firm called China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation (CRAIC). The JV partners are Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) and United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) from Russia.

CRAIC estimates the development of the aircraft will reach 10 years. A first delivery might take place in 2027 if the program is launched in 2017, which it wasn’t. Early configuration and preliminary design should be completed this year.

Design documentation is scheduled for 2021; first flight for 2023 and introduction by 2025. CRAIC a few days ago unveiled a full-size model of the cockpit and passenger cabin of the CR929 at the opening of the biennial Airshow China, China’s largest airshow, which is ongoing until Nov. 11.

The same-size model or mock-up was 22 meters long, 6.5 meters tall and 5.9 meters wide. It revealed a roomy interior with 9-abreast basic seating in economy class.

The cockpit displayed dummy instruments since the actual systems and their suppliers have yet to be chosen. It featured a sidestick controller similar to the flying control used on Airbus planes.

Designers said the plane’s fuselage will be designed and made by China. The wings will be designed by Russia.

The CR929 will see a higher proportion of parts from Chinese suppliers, but key systems like avionics will rely mostly on Western manufacturers. The engines might also come from Western firms such as GE or Rolls Royce.

“Our program is making progress and is on schedule,” claims UAC President Yury Slyusar. “It is currently in the preliminary design phase and we are also in the supplier and equipment selection phase, which will finish by the end of 2019.”

CR 929 will come in three variants. The first variant, the -500, will carry 250 passengers in three-classes. It will have a range of 14,000 km. The -600 will have 280 seats and a range of 12,000 km while the -700 will carry 320 passengers to 10,000 km.

C919 currently uses the LEAP-1C engine from CFM(GE) .

 

[Tshering22]

CR929 would bring in much-needed competition to the world duopoly. However, I see FAA certification as a major challenge, given the political environment between the three countries. Without FAA and EASA certification, finding foreign clients could be a challenge.

CR929 seems damn promising but some major concerns China and Russia would need to address is:

1. Developing maintenance support and forward supply chain networks; MROs, FBOs etc for the aircraft maintenance across key hubs such as Zurich, Singapore, Dubai, Hong Kong, Bengaluru etc to ensure ready spares are available for clients on beck and call.
2. Establish an autonomous aircraft financing mechanism from the existing one. I am aware that Ilyushin Capital and BOC Aviation are big financers, but this one would need to include a lease-and-finance mechanism with ready models for sale-and-leaseback; the most popular form of leasing in today's aviation sector.
3. CR929 is a widebody jet; therefore, the economies of scale could be a challenge given Boeing near-limitless dominance across the world in all major hubs:
   • Singapore Airlines have dominant Boeing fleet, which dominate SEA markets. Garuda, Thai, AirAsiaX etc offer some good potential though; especially towards their Far East Asian routes.
   • Qantas and Air New Zealand have Boeing fleet, which dominate Oceania markets and have long haul operations upto US and Middle East
   • European long-haul LCCs such as Norwegian have some potential while France/Germany/UK are out of question given their Airbus home-turf factor.
   • Jet Airways have a fusion of Boeing and Airbus widebodies, while Vistara has ordered A350s for long-haul operations from India; setting up shop here could be a challenge unless the terms of lease-financing, localised maintenance ecosystem etc are very favourable to carriers here.
   • Middle East could be a gamble; They'd not mind buying your wide-bodies, but given their economic turmoil and the rising protectionism in aviation from their prime European and American markets, they may limit the orders. Not to mention the fear of "freedom & democracy" which would start knocking their doors if they deviate from paying US/NATO countries.
4. This leaves the aircraft with four potential areas: a) Latin America b) southern & western Africa c)Hong Kong and Chinese market as well as d)Russia-Eastern Europe market; the latter subject to Russia's change in its national tourism strategy especially for their Siberian tourist regions. Russia is still conservative about tourism sector and despite having such terrific landscapes, does not really offer easy visas to high spending countries except China and to some extent, India.

What I mean with all this is that the efforts for CR929 are eagerly appreciated and waited for by the global community, tired of a duopoly; but how much of financing and supply chain ecosystem COMAC-UAC pairing can establish rapidly, is what will define this aircraft's success story.

 

[Feng Leng]

Test Flights for China’s Troubled CR929 Jetliner Might Begin in 2023

China’s first indigenous wide-body, long-haul twinjet airliner, the much-delayed CRAIC CR929, will source most of its critical avionics and other key components from Western firms. The engines of this aircraft might also come from the West.

https://www.invests.com/2018/11/08/...-troubled-cr929-jetliner-might-begin-in-2023/

Zhuhai, China (4E) – China’s first indigenous wide-body, long-haul twinjet airliner, the much-delayed CRAIC CR929, will source most of its critical avionics and other key components from Western firms. The engines of this aircraft might also come from the West.

The CR929 will compete against the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 787. It’s being designed as a long-range twinjet airliner seating from 250 to 320 people.

The plane is being jointly developed by China and Russia through a joint venture firm called China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation (CRAIC). The JV partners are Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) and United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) from Russia.

CRAIC estimates the development of the aircraft will reach 10 years. A first delivery might take place in 2027 if the program is launched in 2017, which it wasn’t. Early configuration and preliminary design should be completed this year.

Design documentation is scheduled for 2021; first flight for 2023 and introduction by 2025. CRAIC a few days ago unveiled a full-size model of the cockpit and passenger cabin of the CR929 at the opening of the biennial Airshow China, China’s largest airshow, which is ongoing until Nov. 11.

The same-size model or mock-up was 22 meters long, 6.5 meters tall and 5.9 meters wide. It revealed a roomy interior with 9-abreast basic seating in economy class.

The cockpit displayed dummy instruments since the actual systems and their suppliers have yet to be chosen. It featured a sidestick controller similar to the flying control used on Airbus planes.

Designers said the plane’s fuselage will be designed and made by China. The wings will be designed by Russia.

The CR929 will see a higher proportion of parts from Chinese suppliers, but key systems like avionics will rely mostly on Western manufacturers. The engines might also come from Western firms such as GE or Rolls Royce.

“Our program is making progress and is on schedule,” claims UAC President Yury Slyusar. “It is currently in the preliminary design phase and we are also in the supplier and equipment selection phase, which will finish by the end of 2019.”

CR 929 will come in three variants. The first variant, the -500, will carry 250 passengers in three-classes. It will have a range of 14,000 km. The -600 will have 280 seats and a range of 12,000 km while the -700 will carry 320 passengers to 10,000 km.

LOL another sour Western propaganda article to make your day. All Chinese projects are "delayed" or "troubled" like Defense Secretary Gates claiming J-20 is a fantasy days before its public first flight.

 

[master_13]

LOL another sour Western propaganda article to make your day. All Chinese projects are "delayed" or "troubled" like Defense Secretary Gates claiming J-20 is a fantasy days before its public first flight.

what western media fails to mentions is that Airbus and Boeing new planes are ALMOST ALWAYS DELAYED, without exception.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The best political option for China is to select the Rolls Royce engine. It has the same capabilities as the GE if not better, but without any of the political baggage that comes with dealing with both GE and the veto that the USA goverment will have over potential sales, eg Iran etc.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

so they would buy western engine and build a new engine based on the existing design?

PD-14 variant could power it.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

PD-14 variant could power it.

Too small. Remember the plane has to be able to fly with just the engine(s) on only one side of the wing.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Too small. Remember the plane has to be able to fly with just the engine(s) on only one side of the wing.

Then they can make a big version of PD-14. This is mature technology. Just learn in university. Anyone can make it. It's not like pfffft asking you to solve Goldbach's conjecture or something.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Then they can make a big version of PD-14. This is mature technology. Just learn in university. Anyone can make it. It's not like pfffft asking you to solve Goldbach's conjecture or something.

Already in a thread
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...rival-boeing-and-airbus.585622/#post-10925666