From Navy to Airforce, India’s Muscle Flex Take a Relook At Country's Most Prestigious Weapons 💪 👊

[Signalian]

We are facing serious threat from Chinese navy, not from Pakistan navy.

Seems an understatement since some formations of Indian Army are also poised for amphibious landings in Pakistan's territory undercover of IN and IAF.

 

[walterbibikow]

There is massive gap in required strength and the list goes on.

@Signalian
WNC operates / will be operating following warships:

1. 03 Kolkata class DDG
2. 04 Vishakhapatnam class* DDG
3. 06 Talwar clas FFG
4. 04 Tushil class* FFG
5. 03 Brahmputra class FFG

Generally, INS Vikramaditya is escorted by 2-3 P-15A and sometimes with 1-2 Talwars/Brahmputras. Here, the CBG looks very strong and promising. In future, we might see INS Vikramaditya operating solely with DDGs but no FFGs.

Now, we come to ENC which operates / will be operating following warships:
1. 03 Delhi class DDG
2. 03 Shivalik class FFG
3. 07 Nilgiri class* FFG

IMO, here INS Vikrant will be escorted by 3-4 Nilgiri class frigates. Delhi class and Shivalik class will not be operating in the CBG.

One thing I notice here is, IN has divided AESA warships equally in both ENC and WNC with 07 DDG in WNC and 07 FFG in ENC.

In future, with the addition of 4 LHDs and 3rd AC; there will be huge demand for additional escorts. Only time will tell how exactly it will look and which new escorts will be procured

 

[walterbibikow]

Brahmos with range over 500 km will be more challenging for Chinese navy to deal and protect the surface ships.

Future is network centric warfare. That's why assets such as P-8i are very important.

Also important to remember that our frigates will have MH-60R Romeo too as an attack counterpart besides onboard anti ship capacity which can use potent anti ship missiles like NSM and use light torpedoes on there own multiple times with reload.

Then we have air launched anti-ship capabilities with Mig29k + KH-35 , SU30 MKI+ BrahMos, Rafale + Exocet , Jaguar+ Harpoons, P-8i+ Harpoons in the arsenal too to wreck havoc on enemy fleet. Later MK2 will carry BrahMos-NG.

One has to remember what PLAN can actually field in Indian Ocean which rules out all there Corvettes and older frigates ( too small range) and most of their SSK ( any SSK without AIP won't survive such a long journey).

So only some of their latest frigates and destroyer and SSN can be of actual use against India. But then these are the same assets they have to field against Japan USA and Taiwan and even in SCS against Vietnam and Indonesia and Phillipines.

So I wonder what can they actually bring to fight at all !!

Also to note that USA and Japan will be more than happy to help india identify and track chinese submarines ( already sensor network is being placed in IOR).

Then there is questions of fleet availability. Major naval ships are known for bad availability rates for all countries and Chinese ships with Russian and Chinese origin engines will have much worse availablity rate. So even less ships to field

 

[walterbibikow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604550741578108928

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604788655414878209

 

[walterbibikow]

@walterbibikow
Maybe they don't know anything about mighty indian military as much as you do

1.5 ton Agni-V warhead has a yield of 200-500KN.
So it is 34x of Hiroshima.The bomb dropped over Hiroshima weighted 4,400 kg & had yield of 15 kt.

20% weight reduced, Agni-V can now strike targets beyond 7,000 km

The extended range of the missile will give a variety of options to the planners during times of conflict.

www.indiatoday.in

Modern warheads like W88 warhead has a weight of just 250 kg & yield of 475 kt.

An Agni-V can carry upto 6 × W88 like warheads.Net yield= 2850 kt or ~ 3 Megaton.

 

[Skull and Bones]

We need credible sub surface fleet, be it both SSNs, SSKs with AIP.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian
WNC operates / will be operating following warships:

1. 03 Kolkata class DDG
2. 04 Vishakhapatnam class* DDG
3. 06 Talwar clas FFG
4. 04 Tushil class* FFG
5. 03 Brahmputra class FFG

Generally, INS Vikramaditya is escorted by 2-3 P-15A and sometimes with 1-2 Talwars/Brahmputras. Here, the CBG looks very strong and promising. In future, we might see INS Vikramaditya operating solely with DDGs but no FFGs.

Now, we come to ENC which operates / will be operating following warships:
1. 03 Delhi class DDG
2. 03 Shivalik class FFG
3. 07 Nilgiri class* FFG

IMO, here INS Vikrant will be escorted by 3-4 Nilgiri class frigates. Delhi class and Shivalik class will not be operating in the CBG.

One thing I notice here is, IN has divided AESA warships equally in both ENC and WNC with 07 DDG in WNC and 07 FFG in ENC.

In future, with the addition of 4 LHDs and 3rd AC; there will be huge demand for additional escorts. Only time will tell how exactly it will look and which new escorts will be procured

All these will potentially be put up against PN in conjunction ?

 

[walterbibikow]

All these will potentially be put up against PN in conjunction ?

WNC: Western Naval Command
ENC: Eastern Naval Command

 

[Signalian]

WNC: Western Naval Command
ENC: Eastern Naval Command

In a conflict between Indian and Pakistan, the ENC can get certain assets from WNC.

 

[walterbibikow]

We need credible sub surface fleet, be it both SSNs, SSKs with AIP.

Indigenous steel for Project 75 Alpha

Chhattisgarh: Bhilai Steel plant gears up to make steel for indigenous submarine project - Times of India

However, the manufacturing of the plates will be done only after the testing and inspection by the teams of the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and the Indian Navy. The testing this time will be ten times more than the testing done during the production of steel for INS Vikrant...

www.google.com

Indian navy is using 8 Fast interceptor craft fitted with Thales Australia Mine counter-measure clip-on influence sweeps as a temporary solution for MCM..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financialexpress.com/defence/the-project-75-i-for-the-next-gen-submarine-will-be-cleared-by-next-year-a-new-plan-for-minesweepers-says-navy-chief/2900116/lite/

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

For two front war... Not for one front war.

Lolz. So, you think india can match a single China ? Let's assume Pak will not attack at all and even remove its forces from border (just for the sake of assumption). So india can take each & every resource to LAC. Even then there's no comparison at all.

Let's see how many AESA equipped 4.5th & 5th gen fighters both country have.

India - 4.5 Gen: Rafales (36)
India - 5th Gen: 0

China - 4.5 Gen: J-10Cs (180+), J-16 (170+)
China - 5th Gen: J-20 (~200)

Do the math yourself.

Once again, when your men in charge are always focused against Pakistan. They compare with Pak military. Even in this article: (https://www.indiatoday.in/india-tod...-losing-edge-over-pakistan-2311980-2022-12-21) Its comparing with Pak Navy not with PLAN. The indian article which quoted indian naval vice adm is saying that india is losing edge from Pakistan in submarine fleet in coming years.

"Pakistan is likely to acquire all eight submarines over the next decade or so, which arguably puts it ahead of India in terms of underwater warfare capability"

“Our underwater capabilities are pathetic and it’s high time we speed up,” said indian vice admiral Singh.

As far as airforce is concerned, the IAF clearly lacks AEW&C capability to match PAF. Don't even think about PLAAF. As far as combat capability is concerned that too was diplayed a couple of years ago.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Lolz. So, you think india can match a single China ? Let's assume Pak will not attack at all and even remove its forces from border (just for the sake of assumption). So india can take each & every resource to LAC. Even then there's no comparison at all.

Let's see how many AESA equipped 4.5th & 5th gen fighters both country have.

India - 4.5 Gen: Rafales (36)
India - 5th Gen: 0

China - 4.5 Gen: J-10Cs (180+), J-16 (170+)
China - 5th Gen: J-20 (~200)

Do the math yourself.

Once again, when your men in charge are always focused against Pakistan. They compare with Pak military. Even in this article: (https://www.indiatoday.in/india-tod...-losing-edge-over-pakistan-2311980-2022-12-21) Its comparing with Pak Navy not with PLAN. The indian article which quoted indian naval vice adm is saying that india is losing edge from Pakistan in submarine fleet in coming years.

"Pakistan is likely to acquire all eight submarines over the next decade or so, which arguably puts it ahead of India in terms of underwater warfare capability"

“Our underwater capabilities are pathetic and it’s high time we speed up,” said indian vice admiral Singh.

As far as airforce is concerned, the IAF clearly lacks AEW&C capability to match PAF. Don't even think about PLAAF. As far as combat capability is concerned that too was diplayed a couple of years ago.

Let's see how many AESA equipped 4.5th & 5th gen fighters both country have.

India - 4.5 Gen: Rafales (36)
India - 5th Gen: 0

China - 4.5 Gen: J-10Cs (180+), J-16 (170+)
China - 5th Gen: J-20 (~200)

Do the math yourself.

...Gajab ka math hai ye.. .Iss math se Pakistan ke paas only 12 fighter jets hai

 

[walterbibikow]

China - 5th Gen: J-20 (~200)

Have you wondered why China’s J-20 4.5-gen fighter always flies with Luneburg lens
-1st of course to conceal its true signature
-But more importantly to save itself from humiliation
-J-20’s radar cross section (RCS) is 1-3 m2 putting it along with 4-gen fighter

One of the important aspects of 5th generation is stealth and heat signature ...a large part of this jets exhaust is exposed outside the body ..how can they even claim it's a stealth aircraft

Lolz. So, you think india can match a single China ?

IAF vs PLAAF: The PLAAF can at best employ about 130-160 aircrafts due to the severe limitations of air bases in this theatre. Out of the 7 airfields it has, none except Lhasa is able to house a full squadron. Tibet has 4 air bases, out of which only Ngari is close to Ladakh. The other 3 – Shigatse, Lhasa and Nyingchi are 1500 to 2500 kms away. All the 4 Tibet bases are at a high altitude of more than 4000 meters, effectively reducing their weapon load and range by half, and making them visible to an enemy with a high performance AEWCS platform. Xinjiang air bases are at a medium altitude of 1300-1600 meters, but are farther than the Ngari air base, between 300 to 700 kms from the Pangong area. The J-20 has no support infrastructure in Tibet or Xinjiang, and will have to operate out of Chengdu, which is 4000 kms away from Ladakh, and will need multiple refuelling. That will make it vulnerable to India’s NETRA AEWCS. So the J-20, with its suspect stealth capabilities is a sitting duck for a Su-30MKI, that has been upgraded specifically for this theatre. J-20 with its exposed side and rear RCS is not quite an F-22, or F-35.General consensus in the aviation community is that it is not a 5-G aircraft at all. It is not even as advanced as the Rafale, which describes its capabilities rather conservatively.
Let us look at the numbers that India can throw up. The following air bases have the entire Ladakh and adjoining Tibet theatre in range – Leh (high altitude), Srinagar, Awantipora (Medium altitude), Jammu, Pathankot, Adampur (Jullundur), Amritsar, Halwara (Ludhiana), Bhatinda, Suratgarh, Ambala, Chandigarh, Sarsawa (Saharanpur), Hindon (Delhi), and Bareilly. That’s 15 full fledged air bases with the whole of Ladakh in range, and 3 – Agra, Gwalior and Bakshi Ka Talab (Lucknow) just outside. The PLAAF infrastructure does not stand a chance against the Indian infra and the capability of its aircrafts.

Let's see how many AESA equipped fighters both country have.

India - 4.5 Gen: Rafales (36)

Jaguar DARIN III (60) + Rafale F3R (36) + LCA MK1A 83 jets(on order)

BEL To Supply D-29 EW Suites for IAF MiG-29s And Establish EW Test Range

BEL and Indian MoD have signed two contracts for establishing an EW test range and to supply about 42 D-29 systems for IAF's MiG-29UPG fleet.

www.overtdefense.com

As far as airforce is concerned, the IAF clearly lacks AEW&C capability to match PAF. Don't even think about PLAAF. As far as combat capability is concerned that too was diplayed a couple of years ago.

The first flight trial of the new AEW&C aircraft will take place in four years(2025), with the entire project being completed in 7 years(2028)

'Eyes in sky': Govt okays 6 more 'early-warning' aircraft for Indian Air Force

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, approved a roughly Rs 110 billion project by the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) to create six new Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft for the Indian Air Force on Wednesday. This...

www.wionews.com

 

[walterbibikow]

"Pakistan is likely to acquire all eight submarines over the next decade or so, which arguably puts it ahead of India in terms of underwater warfare capability"

1.The German government has refused to supply MTU 12V396 diesel engines from Germany’s MTU company to be equipped on a modified Hangor-class submarine.

2.German government has prohibited the export of the engines to China because of their use for military purposes, as Germany is bound by a European Union arms embargo imposed on China in 1989 after the Tiananmen Square massacre.

3. Retd Pakistani Army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa have confirmed that the German government indeed has blocked the sale of MTU 12V396 diesel engines to China.

4. Thailand has refused to accept Chinese engines and the submarine deal might collapse soon, as Thai Navy is not keen on Chinese engines.

Pakistan is likely to acquire all eight submarines over the next decade or so, which arguably puts it ahead of India in terms of underwater warfare capability
Our underwater capabilities are pathetic and it’s high time we speed up

India Quietly Launches 3rd Arihant-class Nuclear-powered Submarine, Can Carry 8 Ballistic Missiles: Report - News18

The first SSBN INS Arihant was commissioned in 2016, while the second, though initially launched in 2014, is awaiting commissioning into the Indian Navy.

www.news18.com

Chhattisgarh: Bhilai Steel plant gears up to make steel for indigenous submarine project | Raipur News - Times of India

However, the manufacturing of the plates will be done only after the testing and inspection by the teams of the Defence Metallurgical Research Laborat

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Let's see how many AESA equipped 4.5th & 5th gen fighters both country have.

India - 4.5 Gen: Rafales (36)
India - 5th Gen: 0

China - 4.5 Gen: J-10Cs (180+), J-16 (170+)
China - 5th Gen: J-20 (~200)

Do the math yourself.

...Gajab ka math hai ye.. .Iss math se Pakistan ke paas only 12 fighter jets hai

That's 100% fact.

I specifically mentioned 4.5 gen & 5th gen fighters.

India has only 36 (4.5th & 5th gen). While China has around 600 (4.5th & 5th gen).

I did not included 4th gen fighters purposedly otherwise list would have gone too high. If you want to include all 4th gen fighters then be my guest. China has massive number of 4th gen fighters like J-10A / Bs, J-11s, Su-27s, Su-30MKKs, Su-35s, etc. The count of only 4th gen fighters will be easily above 1000.

Again india and china comparison is like comparing an ant with an elephant. Indian airforce can best be compared with Pakistan's. China is at another league.

also PLAAF AWACS are atleast 30+, other EW platforms are numerous while india is even less then Pakistan's. Real world is quite different then indian YT channels.


As far as another fella's concern about J-20. Well, the reputed western experts and even ones from US military regards J-20 as very high. They consider it as a threat. Whole world recognize it as a 5th gen fighter.