Taygibay
PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Messages
- 3,392
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@duhastmish @Audio @Corsair Don't lose undue time dealing with that poster;
he's got the pure fanboy attitude that values any big media crap even US
only trying to make his country better than all by action movie standards …
and doesn't listen to explanations as he did not on the subject that I will
answer for Ankit Kumar.
@Audio & Imran Khan & @Shotgunner51 I explained it above. The fast jets essential fly
through the turbulences created by the propellers by power alone and their lift is thrust
generated. A helicopter has less power than the tanker and its lift is generated by efficient
mashing of air around it like the arms of the swimmer do in water.
Compared to a C-130x, the A400M pushes giant propellers, with the unusual disposition
of the props close to the plane rotating in the opposite direction of those on the outside.
The combined power and highly swirling air flow make the zone very turbulent and influen-
ce the rotor use & the piloting of the helos so much, that it was not judged possible to
make it an operational capacity.
We're awaiting a solution that reports say additional hose length won't cover alone.
@Ankit Kumar 001
This explanation should be in a forced to read thread on PDF.
Stealth as the defining element in US invented 5th gen classe,
relies on the modifications to the shape and structure of the jet
so that it becomes very difficult to spot for RADARS!
But stealth isn't all and a ninja, stealthiest of human warriors, on
a vast plain facing the Napoleonian army would have had to flee.
In this case, evading radar is nice but what if the opposing aircraft
found another acquisition means or another way than structural stealth
to achieve that goal?
Another acquisition process : a guy goes outside at nighttime with a flashlight
because the wife wants her cat. His flashlight emits a cone shaped beam within
which he hopes to find the cat ( as distance grows, illumination decreases BTW ).
Any decent observer at same level as man and cat can spot that beam and
know what's going on and locate the poor chap without being spotted itself.
The cat however has a different sensor capacity, it uses the ambient light to see.
It does not emit any light itself. So that the cat knows how to avoid the "hunter".
It needs only stay silent and it will avoid detection until the light cone includes it.
Evading radars by non-structural means : The materials in a "5th gen" aircraft
either absorb radar emission ( Rafale : paint ) or are transparent to it ( Rafale many
parts including the entire tail fin except the box section that contains the very sensors
and emitters of the EW suite ). The shapes of a stealth plane reflect the incoming radar
waves ( On Rafale, the choice is to make curved surfaces that are never fully radial,
whose arc values are non continuous, making them faceted in a way the eye alone rarely
captures unless the geometric analysis supports it in the mind ). What if there were other
ways to evade radar detection? There are :
Grab the wave "ball" sent by the pitcher, grease it something serious and let him catch that!
The slippery solution of the Rafale was found in the combo PESA with built in LPI and SPECTRA
suite / data fusion : partial active cancellation. The RBE2 AESA receives the enemy's radar
signal and emits a dephased narrow beam towards the emitter.
Narrow to avoid detection by filling the sky with flashlight "juice" like the other guy is doing and
dephased so that if sent at just the right power, it will slightly dominate the returning info-ladden
pulse and be picked up over it as well as provide incorrect size and location values. That kind
of technology relies on computer power and that of the algorithms as well and yet on the quality
of the emitter and works in silent mode!
The best use of this is presently in Israel where they have designed the capacity to the level of
making enemy ground AESA stations impervious to their jets presence explaining free raids.
Then modern IRST came along at the Rafale development time and were there from design.
An added perk was the camera which ranges into BVR at 60km. On most other planes, IRSTs
came as add-on except on the "5th gen" that came after. As technology develops in that field too,
we can expect mixed IRST&cam units to reach the range of 100-120 km making then excellent
sensor for the accompanying missiles. Rafale OSF can shoot MICAs at max range without radar.
That's the one close to our silent cat watching the flashlight waving photon emitting human.
Last, one last 5th gen capacity fits the bill of negating 5th gen stealth itself : being network centric.
With MIDS and L16, and MADL and satcom and so on, both the informations the fighter gathers
and those it can use to engage area shared with the rest of the forces to provide an unequaled
tactical image. Network centric platforms can receive targeting solutions that they helped create
but enriched incredibly far beyond what they used to rely on. Another fighter of your patrol can
provide a track ( 180º firing trial ) so can a C2 platform ( i.e. AWACS ) or a satellite and so on.
If an enemy plane is detected once in a given theater, any friends on the network get the info.
In dogfight, it is a well known fact that most kills come from third parties as roaming buddies kill
that pesky guy trying to lock on you from outside the fight itself. With network centric platforms,
this will increase enough to apply to BVR and beyond to tactical level. Rafale is network centric.
Any of the above solutions alone would not be a game changer against stealth but all together?
The Rafale is made to use them all.The tactical book of the Armée de l'Air is too.
This explains why "5th gen" is deemed a concept not worthy pursuing as things stand. F-22 can
be seen as shown in my avatar and the rest has yet to be seen in action.
Sorry for the long post but this has to be explained to everyone.
Good day all, Tay.
he's got the pure fanboy attitude that values any big media crap even US
only trying to make his country better than all by action movie standards …
and doesn't listen to explanations as he did not on the subject that I will
answer for Ankit Kumar.
@Audio & Imran Khan & @Shotgunner51 I explained it above. The fast jets essential fly
through the turbulences created by the propellers by power alone and their lift is thrust
generated. A helicopter has less power than the tanker and its lift is generated by efficient
mashing of air around it like the arms of the swimmer do in water.
Compared to a C-130x, the A400M pushes giant propellers, with the unusual disposition
of the props close to the plane rotating in the opposite direction of those on the outside.
The combined power and highly swirling air flow make the zone very turbulent and influen-
ce the rotor use & the piloting of the helos so much, that it was not judged possible to
make it an operational capacity.
We're awaiting a solution that reports say additional hose length won't cover alone.
@Ankit Kumar 001
This explanation should be in a forced to read thread on PDF.
Stealth as the defining element in US invented 5th gen classe,
relies on the modifications to the shape and structure of the jet
so that it becomes very difficult to spot for RADARS!
But stealth isn't all and a ninja, stealthiest of human warriors, on
a vast plain facing the Napoleonian army would have had to flee.
In this case, evading radar is nice but what if the opposing aircraft
found another acquisition means or another way than structural stealth
to achieve that goal?
Another acquisition process : a guy goes outside at nighttime with a flashlight
because the wife wants her cat. His flashlight emits a cone shaped beam within
which he hopes to find the cat ( as distance grows, illumination decreases BTW ).
Any decent observer at same level as man and cat can spot that beam and
know what's going on and locate the poor chap without being spotted itself.
The cat however has a different sensor capacity, it uses the ambient light to see.
It does not emit any light itself. So that the cat knows how to avoid the "hunter".
It needs only stay silent and it will avoid detection until the light cone includes it.
Evading radars by non-structural means : The materials in a "5th gen" aircraft
either absorb radar emission ( Rafale : paint ) or are transparent to it ( Rafale many
parts including the entire tail fin except the box section that contains the very sensors
and emitters of the EW suite ). The shapes of a stealth plane reflect the incoming radar
waves ( On Rafale, the choice is to make curved surfaces that are never fully radial,
whose arc values are non continuous, making them faceted in a way the eye alone rarely
captures unless the geometric analysis supports it in the mind ). What if there were other
ways to evade radar detection? There are :
Grab the wave "ball" sent by the pitcher, grease it something serious and let him catch that!
The slippery solution of the Rafale was found in the combo PESA with built in LPI and SPECTRA
suite / data fusion : partial active cancellation. The RBE2 AESA receives the enemy's radar
signal and emits a dephased narrow beam towards the emitter.
Narrow to avoid detection by filling the sky with flashlight "juice" like the other guy is doing and
dephased so that if sent at just the right power, it will slightly dominate the returning info-ladden
pulse and be picked up over it as well as provide incorrect size and location values. That kind
of technology relies on computer power and that of the algorithms as well and yet on the quality
of the emitter and works in silent mode!
The best use of this is presently in Israel where they have designed the capacity to the level of
making enemy ground AESA stations impervious to their jets presence explaining free raids.
Then modern IRST came along at the Rafale development time and were there from design.
An added perk was the camera which ranges into BVR at 60km. On most other planes, IRSTs
came as add-on except on the "5th gen" that came after. As technology develops in that field too,
we can expect mixed IRST&cam units to reach the range of 100-120 km making then excellent
sensor for the accompanying missiles. Rafale OSF can shoot MICAs at max range without radar.
That's the one close to our silent cat watching the flashlight waving photon emitting human.
Last, one last 5th gen capacity fits the bill of negating 5th gen stealth itself : being network centric.
With MIDS and L16, and MADL and satcom and so on, both the informations the fighter gathers
and those it can use to engage area shared with the rest of the forces to provide an unequaled
tactical image. Network centric platforms can receive targeting solutions that they helped create
but enriched incredibly far beyond what they used to rely on. Another fighter of your patrol can
provide a track ( 180º firing trial ) so can a C2 platform ( i.e. AWACS ) or a satellite and so on.
If an enemy plane is detected once in a given theater, any friends on the network get the info.
In dogfight, it is a well known fact that most kills come from third parties as roaming buddies kill
that pesky guy trying to lock on you from outside the fight itself. With network centric platforms,
this will increase enough to apply to BVR and beyond to tactical level. Rafale is network centric.
Any of the above solutions alone would not be a game changer against stealth but all together?
The Rafale is made to use them all.The tactical book of the Armée de l'Air is too.
This explains why "5th gen" is deemed a concept not worthy pursuing as things stand. F-22 can
be seen as shown in my avatar and the rest has yet to be seen in action.
Sorry for the long post but this has to be explained to everyone.
Good day all, Tay.
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