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France confirms talks with Pakistan on high-tech systems for fighter developed

HAIDER

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PARIS (AP) - France is in talks on providing high-tech missile and radar systems for a jet fighter that Pakistan is developing with China, a Defense Ministry official confirmed Tuesday.
Such a deal on Pakistan's JF-17 fighter would likely be opposed by the United States and Taiwan, analysts have said, out of concern that China
could reap sensitive military technology.
Bruno Berthet, assistant director for international development at the French Defense Ministry, said France is considering such concerns as it works toward signing a provisional deal that could allow Pakistan to obtain air-to-air missiles from France's MBDA and radars from Thales.
No deal has been reached, «but the talks are on the right track, and there are diplomatic comings and goings between the two countries,» Berthet told The Associated Press on the sidelines of a news conference. He said it was too early to say when a memorandum of understanding might be signed.
A deal would be a boon to French industry at a time when its overall economy has been lackluster, and government officials have been eager to support defense exports. A supply deal for the JF-17 fighter could be worth hundreds of millions of euros (dollars) to France, said Berthet.
The head of the French defense procurement agency, Francois Lureau, told the news conference that France's defense sector reaped an estimated ¤5.5 billion (US$8.18 billion) worth of export contracts last year, and expected to reach ¤6 billion in 2008.
The MBDA missiles and radars similar to Thales' equip Taiwan's French-built Mirage fighters, and Taiwan's weapons systems could be compromised if Pakistan gave such know-how to China, Jane's Defense Weekly reported in September.

Berthet said there was «no pressure» from the United States, but acknowledged that French and American officials have held high-level talks over «a certain number of export principles.
«On the fighter plane, the French position is more ambitious than the American position,» Berthet said. «Reciprocally, I note that the Americans export a certain amount of night-vision gear for Pakistan's land forces _ which seems to us sensitive for other reasons.
France confirms talks with Pakistan on high-tech systems for fighter developed with China
 
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What is irking USA, surely not Thales(??RS400) when they are supplying us APG68V9. Unless PAF is negotiating something else altogether ie AESA radar which might be on the horizon.
Araz
 
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AESA by thales is AESA version of RBE2 radar of Rafale.

Series production start-up is scheduled for late 2010 for AESA version of RBE2, Rafale has the PESA version of the same radar now

Getting RBE2..... Makes life with MKI easier!
 
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i hope pakistan can afford rafale someday i wonder how many we could have brought of rafales in the same amount we paid for f-16s.
 
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70~75 million USDs ---- Rafale
$45 million above --- F-16 Block 50+
Well i think we bought all F16s with us military aid package. Otherwise we would not have gotton this aid deal from USA. And its not funny either that we will recive all the F16 over the course of years and they can be stoped anytime!!! isn't it like before but owell we bought from their money ( dude they are very smart lol) Ragale's we will get them soon wait and see let us finish our job by killing all these terroriest inside Pakistan. Once we are done with these monkys we will go after other stuff and it will not take long to finish the Job trust me on this aswell coz THIS IS PAKISTAN. WHEN IT COMES TO OUR ARMY WE GET OUR JOB DONE FAST. :pakistan::police::guns::guns::sniper::cheers:
 
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i hope pakistan can afford rafale someday i wonder how many we could have brought of rafales in the same amount we paid for f-16s.

Then Pakistan and France would be the only two countries flying the aircraft in the world...come crunch time (as in Kargil), the French would sanction us just as easily as the Americans and then we would be stuck with an extremely awesome aircraft with no spares.

F-16s on the other hand, spares can be acquired on the market (a couple of fairly well connected sources are available to PAF for the spares).

All of the weapons that the Rafale is currently operational with or will be are available on the F-16.
 
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its , very funny to see pakistanis disscussing different options and then couldnt find anything else then, OLD FIGHTING FALCONS (F-16s).pakistan should make its forces more coloured , more diversify , more optional & equiptd with different mixup of different tec,s.

depending on just, one equipment for the last 30 years cant make pakistan a real & all time and all weather AIRFORCE, there shouldbe different commission of different AIRCRAFTs from different sources, from diffrnt countries.

in the , contrast INDIAn AIRFORCE looks far better in thier policy to employing different AIRCRAFTS from different countries, because of this very good policy INDIAN AIRFORCE made itself a good market for the fighting AEROSPACE INDUSTRY through out the! world leading suppliers of fighter aircraft countries.


NEVER MIND , if pakistan can get RAFELE or J-10 or JAS grPns, EURO FIGHTER or, any other aircrafts they can get they should, be cause pakistan should show the world tht pakistan stand by its needs, not by its relliance on its BIGBROTHER.

it couldbe seen as a future defence marketing investment.
 
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its , very funny to see pakistanis disscussing different options and then couldnt find anything else then, OLD FIGHTING FALCONS (F-16s).pakistan should make its forces more coloured , more diversify , more optional & equiptd with different mixup of different tec,s.

depending on just, one equipment for the last 30 years cant make pakistan a real & all time and all weather AIRFORCE, there shouldbe different commission of different AIRCRAFTs from different sources, from diffrnt countries.

in the , contrast INDIAn AIRFORCE looks far better in thier policy to employing different AIRCRAFTS from different countries, because of this very good policy INDIAN AIRFORCE made itself a good market for the fighting AEROSPACE INDUSTRY through out the! world leading suppliers of fighter aircraft countries.


NEVER MIND , if pakistan can get RAFELE or J-10 or JAS grPns, EURO FIGHTER or, any other aircrafts they can get they should, be cause pakistan should show the world tht pakistan stand by its needs, not by its relliance on its BIGBROTHER.

it couldbe seen as a future defence marketing investment.

You shouldnt forget while making such statements that pakistan is a country with limited resources at her disposal unlike india. Indeed PAF opted for the F-16s but there was some reasons to it after analysing almost every parameters.
Pakistan has already developed an infrastructure to support the F-16s and so no money needs to be spent on this part of procument for a new fighter jet. Besides F-16 block 52 is a capable jet and is comparable to any other modern day fighter jet of 4th and 4.5th generation and so it gives PAF value for its money.
Also who said that PAF is just relying on big brother. JF-17 project proves it other wise. Moreover PAF also have plans to induct the J-10. So PAF has indeed diversify its purchases.
 
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yeah true but pakistan can't use f-16s forever we should also start looking at other planes for the future too jF-17 and j-10 is good but not enough I think we should keep as many options open as possible.
 
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ACTULLY, my point was same as MR, KHANZs but again my, dear ICE COLD seems to see only F-16s as the only fighter jet all around the world.
JF-17 is looking a very good prospect but, it cant be called the ONLY 1, what is the problem with pakistani think tank, that dont wana accept anything else thn F-16s its oky what ever
 
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The above 2 posters are very ignorant of the overall situation, and I am amazed that they can make judgemental statements without any knowledge of the technical process invovled in aircraft acquisition. Think a little bit logically...why would PAF be "obsessed" with anything? What kind of immaturity is that...these men in PAF have served the force for decades, they do not have shiny-armor sickness - they can't be "in love" or "obsessed" with anything. If there are people in love/obsessed, they are the folks posting on this forum...

The F-16 was chosen out of performance-cost ratio...and with the recent developments in SABR AESA, JHMCS, etc - it is clear that the Block-52+ STILL has room for upgrades. Even USAF is set to operate its newer F-16s for a long-while, so the development of radar, ECM/EW & weapon-systems for the next-era are in full-swing.

If the first squadron is inducted, the PAF has voiced its intention to continue with the Block-52+ airframe. Come 2009-2010 it will become clear...Lockheed Martin would not put cash into developing the F-16IN concept for solely India; such action is a waste of time, money and effort. Sure it would be great if IAF chose F-16, but the ultimate goal for LM is to extend F-16IN to AFs such as Turkey, Greece, Pakistan, Singapore, Morocco, UAE etc. The logic is simple...these air forces already HAVE the basic Block-52+ airframe...and they can have 4.5/MRCA requirements ---> THEY are the key customers of F-16s. U.S./LM is not in a position to offer the best of the best to Pakistan...did it blatantly offer Block-52+? No. However in the logical scheme...PAF can make the most out of a 4.5-gen. F-16 than IAF. PAF made an investment...it bought Block-52+ infrastructure...if the political situation is good...we can invest in a fighter based off Block-52+...end result? PAF gets a 2nd 4.5 generation fighter (in addition to FC-20)...and saves money as opposed to Rafale & EF-2000.
 
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Correct Blain2,

But Rafale is more potent Fighter then F-16!

How much more potent? Avionics...ok I give SPECTRA more credit than the EW suite on the F-16s (which I still think is one of the best ones around). Weapons? F-16 gets the nod. Stealth...Rafale.

Overall the benefits afforded on the Rafale are not worth getting bottled up due to sanctions imposed by a single provider. Had the Rafale lived up to the reputation of Mirage III (in terms of users), then it would have been a good contender for the PAF.
 
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How much more potent? Avionics...ok I give SPECTRA more credit than the EW suite on the F-16s (which I still think is one of the best ones around). Weapons? F-16 gets the nod. Stealth...Rafale.

Overall the benefits afforded on the Rafale are not worth getting bottled up due to sanctions imposed by a single provider. Had the Rafale lived up to the reputation of Mirage III (in terms of users), then it would have been a good contender for the PAF.
What would be the point of Rafale if the Block-52+ is delivered and the induction of a 4.5 generation variant of F-16 such as F-16IN seen as possible? Lockheed poured in millions to put up the study for F-16IN...and a tender from India is not the safest of investments. LM did not vocally offer Block-52+ to PAF, but I bet you in IDEAS 2010 you'd see a F-16PK on the LM stall. Such an F-16 would be far easier to induct as it would share the basic Block-52+ airframe...while the capabilities & performance would be VERY close to Rafale, while at lower costs.

There are 2 reasons why PAF just stuck to max-2 squdrons of Block-52+...half it has to do with political precaution, the other half is consideration of future variants. We did not have the money for an F-16IN like fighter back in 2005-2006...but in 2010 that could be a different story. The ACM himself said that PAF would choose Block-60 or another F-16 variant over Eurofighter and Rafale.
 
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