Focus Shifts to Tejas MK-2, Project all set to go Critical

[Ronin]

Focus Shifts to Tejas MK-2, Project all set to go Critical
Published April 18, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)

Mini Collapse of MMRCA deal has clearly shifted focus back to the development of Tejas MK-2 now. Defence minister Mahonhar Parrikar and Indian air force are closely monitoring the progress of Tejas MK-2 and have begun a monthly review of the project. Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) which is developing Tejas MK-2 is feeling the heat but is confident that things will fall in place soon as a major review of the project will be undertaken soon with all concerned parties.

Tejas MK-2 will get final Technical freeze by the end of this year. project definition of Tejas MK-2 will be completed and the project will finally provide a road map to complete all the tasks to be executed over a fixed period of time before Aircraft is ready for Induction.

Avionics & Radar

idrw.org has learned from reliable sources that final Cockpit design layout for Tejas MK-2 has been frozen, MK-2 will sport Touch based two 6×8 main display with Smart MFDs and one 5×5 smart MFD which will have Day and Night mode .

Indigenously developed Uttam AESA radar for Tejas MK-2 has completed Software development for air-air sub-modes and have begun development of software which will allow air-to-ground modes which are crucial for aircraft to carry out high-resolution mapping, multiple grounds moving target detection and track, combat identification, electronic warfare, and ultra high bandwidth communications will be completed by year end and IAF and ADA along with LRDE will carry out Project Review at the same time .

Engines

ADA along with GE have carried out Computer assessment of the F414-GE-INS6 engine with 98 kN of thrust in Tejas MK-2 aircraft and have concluded that no major changes in Air intakes are required. GE too has confirmed that the development of F414-GE-INS6 engines is progressing well and will be on schedule and GE engineers will be in India Into carry out mating of the engine with the aircraft when first aircraft is ready.

No Prototypes

ADA will produce 3 Production aircraft which will be of Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) standards and Final Operational Clearance (FOC) will happen in next 3 years after the first flight of first Tejas MK-2 aircraft. they’re won’t be any prototypes and all aircrafts developed for the testing purpose will be identical to each other.

Astra BVRAAM Integration likely

India’s first Beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) Astra missile developed by the DRDO will be integrated with the first batch of Production variant of Tejas MK-2 to be delivered to the Indian air force. IAF is keen on getting Astra missile integrated with Tejas MK-I and MK-2 aircrafts. DRDO plans to start production of a missile by 2018-19.

First Flight

While IAF wants first flight of Tejas MK-2 to take place by end of 2017, ADA can only do it by end of 2018 but both are working together to speed up the process and might agree to some level of compromise, since ADA is not building any Prototypes, but an IOC Standard Production aircraft Integration of all crucial components along with weapons and radar will lead to longer build time said sources. Tejas MK-1 and Tejas MK-2 will share less than 30 % of the components with each other and all agencies are working on selecting component suppliers.

Second Production line

IAF and MOD are exploring feasibility of starting Second production line for Tejas MK2 while IAF is still not put a final figure on MK-2 aircrafts they want but it is estimated that final figure might be close to 300 aircrafts till then IAF is committed itself in procuring an initial 83 Tejas Mk 2s and the Indian Navy has expressed its firm requirement for 46 LCA Mk2 for Indian Navy. Talks have been held with Private Defence companies and Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) is emerging as a viable option said source.

 

[graphican]

Are there any structural changes proposed in MK2? If drag stays the same, improvement of components and avionics is not going to make difference.

 

[migflug]

Tejas has a shit design . We should collabrate with gripen for their design.

 

[cerberus]

Focus Shifts to Tejas MK-2, Project all set to go Critical
Published April 18, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE : IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)

Mini Collapse of MMRCA deal has clearly shifted focus back to the development of Tejas MK-2 now. Defence minister Mahonhar Parrikar and Indian air force are closely monitoring the progress of Tejas MK-2 and have begun a monthly review of the project. Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) which is developing Tejas MK-2 is feeling the heat but is confident that things will fall in place soon as a major review of the project will be undertaken soon with all concerned parties.

Tejas MK-2 will get final Technical freeze by the end of this year. project definition of Tejas MK-2 will be completed and the project will finally provide a road map to complete all the tasks to be executed over a fixed period of time before Aircraft is ready for Induction.

Avionics & Radar

idrw.org has learned from reliable sources that final Cockpit design layout for Tejas MK-2 has been frozen, MK-2 will sport Touch based two 6×8 main display with Smart MFDs and one 5×5 smart MFD which will have Day and Night mode .

Indigenously developed Uttam AESA radar for Tejas MK-2 has completed Software development for air-air sub-modes and have begun development of software which will allow air-to-ground modes which are crucial for aircraft to carry out high-resolution mapping, multiple grounds moving target detection and track, combat identification, electronic warfare, and ultra high bandwidth communications will be completed by year end and IAF and ADA along with LRDE will carry out Project Review at the same time .

Engines

ADA along with GE have carried out Computer assessment of the F414-GE-INS6 engine with 98 kN of thrust in Tejas MK-2 aircraft and have concluded that no major changes in Air intakes are required. GE too has confirmed that the development of F414-GE-INS6 engines is progressing well and will be on schedule and GE engineers will be in India Into carry out mating of the engine with the aircraft when first aircraft is ready.

No Prototypes

ADA will produce 3 Production aircraft which will be of Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) standards and Final Operational Clearance (FOC) will happen in next 3 years after the first flight of first Tejas MK-2 aircraft. they’re won’t be any prototypes and all aircrafts developed for the testing purpose will be identical to each other.

Astra BVRAAM Integration likely

India’s first Beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) Astra missile developed by the DRDO will be integrated with the first batch of Production variant of Tejas MK-2 to be delivered to the Indian air force. IAF is keen on getting Astra missile integrated with Tejas MK-I and MK-2 aircrafts. DRDO plans to start production of a missile by 2018-19.

First Flight

While IAF wants first flight of Tejas MK-2 to take place by end of 2017, ADA can only do it by end of 2018 but both are working together to speed up the process and might agree to some level of compromise, since ADA is not building any Prototypes, but an IOC Standard Production aircraft Integration of all crucial components along with weapons and radar will lead to longer build time said sources. Tejas MK-1 and Tejas MK-2 will share less than 30 % of the components with each other and all agencies are working on selecting component suppliers.

Second Production line

IAF and MOD are exploring feasibility of starting Second production line for Tejas MK2 while IAF is still not put a final figure on MK-2 aircrafts they want but it is estimated that final figure might be close to 300 aircrafts till then IAF is committed itself in procuring an initial 83 Tejas Mk 2s and the Indian Navy has expressed its firm requirement for 46 LCA Mk2 for Indian Navy. Talks have been held with Private Defence companies and Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) is emerging as a viable option said source.

Well atleast they will learn from past mistakes.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Now this project will be undertaken by BJP . Time to prove there mettle . You can't blame it on some one else . Go for it . Best takeaway is NO PROTOTYPE . Way to go . Fix on a configuration and go for it . Induct them fast . Later improvements and upgrades can be made . Look at China what they do . Nothing wrong in learning good things from our enemies .

All the very BEST guys . MAKE US PROUD

 

[Archie]

Are there any structural changes proposed in MK2? If drag stays the same, improvement of components and avionics is not going to make difference.

their are some structural modifications done to Tejas
this will allow it to accommodate higher thrust GE414 engine as well as carry higher weapons payload of 4500 Kg from current 3500 kg
range too is likely to increase to 2200 Km from current 1500 Km

 

[Ind4Ever]

Tejas has a shit design . We should collabrate with gripen for their design.

No need Bro . Delta wing config looks polite but very good for multi role mission . But one thing I want is to use
More powerful engine with 105 KN . Increase the size even more for better load and range . Add stealth features . Ask , beg , steal or do what ever but we should have the best EW suit . When we can right millions and millions of code for MKI , 29 etc we can easily achieve . Open the flood gate for private players produce in large numbers .

 

[graphican]

their are some structural modifications done to Tejas
this will allow it to accommodate higher thrust GE414 engine as well as carry higher weapons payload of 4500 Kg from current 3500 kg
range too is likely to increase to 2200 Km from current 1500 Km

Hmm.. none of your mentioned improvements seems to have an impact on drag. Isn't drag a factor of wings and aerodynamic features? Allowing bigger engine and increased payload by strengthening wings are internal change having mundane to no effect on drag - as of my info.

Okey that is another irony, I mean another one apart from others - that no one has an idea what is the core-cause of performance dis-satisfaction in Tejas. You keep improving "shine" and "polish" without addressing weight, drag and other critical aspects which would remain untouched. Was Radar an Issue in Tejas? I don't think it ever was! Bigger engine would demand more fuel.. so where is more fuel volume going to come from if size of the aircraft stays the same? Was small payload another core issue? No offense but this project is in deep $! Accept and start-over. You can do it better the second time you try.

 

[Ind4Ever]

their are some structural modifications done to Tejas
this will allow it to accommodate higher thrust GE414 engine as well as carry higher weapons payload of 4500 Kg from current 3500 kg
range too is likely to increase to 2200 Km from current 1500 Km

Range is good enough . But I have doubt why we don't have hard points on the centre side structure ?

Hmm.. none of what you mentioned improvements seems to have an impact on drag. Isn't drag a factor of wings and aerodynamic features? Allowing bigger engine and increased payload by strengthening wings are internal change having mundane to no effect on drag - as of my info.

True but DM is aware of it . So they look in to it . DM said Making tejas less dragy

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Tejas has a shit design . We should collabrate with gripen for their design.

Actually in 2011, then DRDO chief, Dr VK Saraswat, had approached Saab to collaborate in developing the Tejas Mark II. In 2012, the DRDO and Saab held detailed discussions. In 2013, Saab was issued a Request for Proposal, which the DRDO examined and discussed. Yet nothing came of it - Thanks to the erstwhile DM . Senior Saab officials say, off the record, they are keen to partner India in developing the Tejas Mark II. They say the Tejas Mark II, built cheaply in large numbers, would eliminate the need for a heavy, costly, highly sophisticated fighter like the Rafale. Saab sees major profit in co-developing the Tejas Mark II.

The greatest benefit to the Tejas Mark II could be from the Gripen’s superb networking. Aerial combat is no longer about eye-catching aerobatics; it is about data links; networking, and cockpit avionics, which is Saab’s strength.

The DRDO was also hoping to learn from Saab’s maintenance philosophy, which has made the Gripen the world’s most easy-to-maintain fighter. According to independent estimations, the Gripen requires three-five man-hours of maintenance per flight hour. That means, after an hour-long mission, 6-10 technicians require only 30 minutes to put the fighter back in the air.

In contrast, the Rafale is estimated to require 15 maintenance man-hours per flight hour; while the F-35 Lightening II requires 30-35 man-hours.

According to a Jane’s study, the operating cost of the Gripen is $4,700 per hour. The Rafale is thrice as expensive, at $15,000 per hour.

Brazil opens the door for Indian navy and Gripen - Rediff.com India News

 

[migflug]

No need Bro . Delta wing config looks polite but very good for multi role mission . But one thing I want is to use
More powerful engine with 105 KN . Increase the size even more for better load and range . Add stealth features . Ask , beg , steal or do what ever but we should have the best EW suit . When we can right millions and millions of code for MKI , 29 etc we can easily achieve . Open the flood gate for private players produce in large numbers .

This is what i want too . Large fuelage lesser drag and more powerful engine . but this all will require massive design change not visible in mk2.
Also we should have gone with e200 rather than 414 as it has higher dry thrust of 69 KN than 414 62 kn. It is dry which matters more than wet thrust.

Actually in 2011, then DRDO chief, Dr VK Saraswat, had approached Saab to collaborate in developing the Tejas Mark II. In 2012, the DRDO and Saab held detailed discussions. In 2013, Saab was issued a Request for Proposal, which the DRDO examined and discussed. Yet nothing came of it - Thanks to the erstwhile DM). Senior Saab officials say, off the record, they are keen to partner India in developing the Tejas Mark II. They say the Tejas Mark II, built cheaply in large numbers, would eliminate the need for a heavy, costly, highly sophisticated fighter like the Rafale. Saab sees major profit in co-developing the Tejas Mark II.

The greatest benefit to the Tejas Mark II could be from the Gripen’s superb networking. Aerial combat is no longer about eye-catching aerobatics; it is about data links; networking, and cockpit avionics, which is Saab’s strength.

The DRDO was also hoping to learn from Saab’s maintenance philosophy, which has made the Gripen the world’s most easy-to-maintain fighter. According to independent estimations, the Gripen requires three-five man-hours of maintenance per flight hour. That means, after an hour-long mission, 6-10 technicians require only 30 minutes to put the fighter back in the air.

In contrast, the Rafale is estimated to require 15 maintenance man-hours per flight hour; while the F-35 Lightening II requires 30-35 man-hours.

According to a Jane’s study, the operating cost of the Gripen is $4,700 per hour. The Rafale is thrice as expensive, at $15,000 per hour.

Brazil opens the door for Indian navy and Gripen - Rediff.com India News

Then why didnt we go for it. Why this stupid design and fetish to remain as an interceptor when it can become a true multirole. Current design dosent look much promising .more like its 1.5 with better radar and engine . Though fuelage will expand , so has the engine ,which will not lead to any exponential combact radius

 

[Ind4Ever]

Can Tejas MK1 carry the same payload ?

Rendering of a Gripen carrying two massive belly tanks, four anti-ship missiles, infrared tracking pod, two Meteor medium range missiles and two IRIS-T short range missiles.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ud7SdESsZMs/T6KZP5uICJI/AAAAAAAAAGY/iDNtOq7-zH0/s1600/gripen-ng-2.jpg

 

[sathya]

Hmm.. none of your mentioned improvements seems to have an impact on drag. Isn't drag a factor of wings and aerodynamic features? Allowing bigger engine and increased payload by strengthening wings are internal change having mundane to no effect on drag - as of my info.

Okey that is another irony, I mean another one apart from others - that no one has an idea what is the core-cause of performance dis-satisfaction in Tejas. You keep improving "shine" and "polish" without addressing weight, drag and other critical aspects which would remain untouched. Was Radar an Issue in Tejas? I don't think it ever was! Bigger engine would demand more fuel.. so where is more fuel volume going to come from if size of the aircraft stays the same? Was small payload another core issue? No offense but this project is in deep $! Accept and start-over. You can do it better the second time you try.

Main reason for going f414 is because of drag...
Power will compensate for it..

It is said that aerodynamics will be improved by 5-10%
That's needs to be seen after waiting for a few years

This is what i want too . Large fuelage lesser drag and more powerful engine . but this all will require massive design change not visible in mk2.
Also we should have gone with e200 rather than 414 as it has higher dry thrust of 69 KN than 414 62 kn. It is dry which matters more than wet thrust.



Then why didnt we go for it. Why this stupid design and fetish to remain as an interceptor when it can become a true multirole. Current design dosent look much promising .more like its 1.5 with better radar and engine . Though fuelage will expand , so has the engine ,which will not lead to any exponential combact radius

Saab asked for a 51 % share??! that means they will dictate terms for us..

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

This is what i want too . Large fuelage lesser drag and more powerful engine . but this all will require massive design change not visible in mk2.
Also we should have gone with e200 rather than 414 as it has higher dry thrust of 69 KN than 414 62 kn. It is dry which matters more than wet thrust.



Then why didnt we go for it. Why this stupid design and fetish to remain as an interceptor when it can become a true multirole. Current design dosent look much promising .more like its 1.5 with better radar and engine . Though fuelage will expand , so has the engine ,which will not lead to any exponential combact radius

Saab wanted 51% ownership in the New company which could mean Tejas MK-2 could have been a SAAB Product and gave them higher IPR and ownership over Tejas MK-2 which was not acceptable to Indian government and Air force. Though Saab offered much deeper Transfer of Technology ( TOT) for it to India , which would have been much more than what MMRCA would have brought in .

 

[Ind4Ever]

Actually in 2011, then DRDO chief, Dr VK Saraswat, had approached Saab to collaborate in developing the Tejas Mark II. In 2012, the DRDO and Saab held detailed discussions. In 2013, Saab was issued a Request for Proposal, which the DRDO examined and discussed. Yet nothing came of it - Thanks to the erstwhile DM . Senior Saab officials say, off the record, they are keen to partner India in developing the Tejas Mark II. They say the Tejas Mark II, built cheaply in large numbers, would eliminate the need for a heavy, costly, highly sophisticated fighter like the Rafale. Saab sees major profit in co-developing the Tejas Mark II.

The greatest benefit to the Tejas Mark II could be from the Gripen’s superb networking. Aerial combat is no longer about eye-catching aerobatics; it is about data links; networking, and cockpit avionics, which is Saab’s strength.

The DRDO was also hoping to learn from Saab’s maintenance philosophy, which has made the Gripen the world’s most easy-to-maintain fighter. According to independent estimations, the Gripen requires three-five man-hours of maintenance per flight hour. That means, after an hour-long mission, 6-10 technicians require only 30 minutes to put the fighter back in the air.

In contrast, the Rafale is estimated to require 15 maintenance man-hours per flight hour; while the F-35 Lightening II requires 30-35 man-hours.

According to a Jane’s study, the operating cost of the Gripen is $4,700 per hour. The Rafale is thrice as expensive, at $15,000 per hour.

Brazil opens the door for Indian navy and Gripen - Rediff.com India News

True but those days we had poor leadership to take this decision . Which would be considered as Controversial . As we might look like wasting our experience . But if I was there I could had told them to pissoff . And went for it and put full focus on AMCA take it more cost effective and efficient.

Anyway those days are gone. But you can't compare 1:1 Gripin :Rafale . It's like comparing 2:1 ratio . Given the capabilities of both the fighter.