Philip the Arab
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Safe as in supplier safe.
Flypast during Qatar National Day Hints at Doha's Interest in Pakistani JF-17
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Pakistani Fighter
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Why not Blk III and Get PL 15sEgypt seems like it could be a customer, it would be a great purchase to replace Mirage 5, Alpha Jet, and Mirage 2k.
If Egypt ordered a high number it has to include SD-10, and TOT for weapons to a certain extent and possibly a work agreement where CAC makes a LOT more aircraft kits than it is now that are assembled in Egypt.
Ultima Thule
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Pakistani Fighter
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@airomerix was saying RAAD is integerated in JFT Blk 1 and 2
Philip the Arab
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Don't think production capacity is enough to fulfill Egypt's needs.
Ultima Thule
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NO, because Block 1/2 has low ground clearance for carrying RAAD and he is no professional or senior member here which knows better than @airomerix
New World
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We are talking amount Egypt not Qatar or Jordan.. try to read things properly before posting comments..
Ultima Thule
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ok bro but i thinks Egypt has also low chance to get block-3
New World
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Egypt can have its own production line in Egypt. China can also complement.
Philip the Arab
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Ultima Thule
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May be for replacing their Mirage-V and Mirage-2000, JF-17 will be the good optionI agree, Egypt will probably not get it but there is still a chance.
GriffinsRule
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PAF went as Qatar invited them, and its a nice show of support by them for Pakistan and vice versa. Nothing more. Time to time, I read about what a X country is buying that was in my mind a potential JF-17 operator and realize the market for this jet is very small and shrinking.
Let me list a few countries that I believe we will never see operate the JF-17, but would love to be proven wrong in the future.
Starting off with Qatar, as the thread is focused on it.
1. Qatar:
As has been mentioned by others already, Qatar is a non-starter for buying JF-17. They have no need to introduce a Chinese armed aircraft in the mix of their all EU and US fleet that have complete interoperability and being ordered in large enough numbers, far beyond their need or current capacity to even operate (Expect American and European pilots flying these jets).
As for the political angle some pointed towards, Pakistan does not have any clout with any country, courtesy of its corrupt people and incompetent governments. Even if there was some measure of assurance Qatar was hoping to gain from being friendly with Pakistan, they way we capitulated under Saudi pressure to not attend the summit in Malaysia, shows that there is no influence that Qatar can hope to gain by somehow buying the JF-17.
2. China:
Our 'Iron Brother' was supposed to buy 150 of the JF-17 when the program was in its infancy. They had/have a huge number of obsolete aircraft that could easily be replaced by the JF-17, even with their production of J-10 going on at the same time. They were potentially the largest user outside of PAF itself, but what exactly happened to change that is anyone's guess.
3. Malaysia:
I have opined before too that it does not make any sense for Malaysia to buy the JF-17. The best option for them, both economically, politically and technologically is to buy more F-18C/Ds and upgrade them through an MLU. They love the aircraft and it has had stellar safety and performance in their service.
4. Indonesia:
For a brief time when they were under sanctions, Indonesia appeared as a good candidate as well, however, they just floated the idea of buying two squadrons of Block 70 F-16s. JF-17 brings nothing to the table.
5. Sri Lanka:
At one point, almost became the first export customer, and despite warm ties with Pakistan military, the pressure from India was too great for them to handle. I am sure mood has also soured in the country towards a Chinese product, given that country's predatory lending practices.
6. Argentina:
With a country that is broke as hell, even the prospects of it buying ANY fighter, are pretty much nil. They have decommissioned or grounded both the Mirages and A-4s. The sales of Mirage 2000s, Gripens, Mirage F-1, Kifr and the JF-17 & J-10 all came to naught due to monetary issues. Now they have selected the F-50 as their interim fighter, but will not hold my breath for this one.
7. Egypt:
On paper, Egypt seems like a great candidate for JF-17. It has/had similarly ageing aircraft in its inventory, including the Mirage 5s and Mig-21s/F-7s. How many of those aircraft as actually in active service is anyone's guess. They have since 2010 bought 20 F-16, 24 Rafales and 50 Mig-35s. That basically end any realistic chance of JF-17 being the replacement aircraft as the aforementioned aircraft are all superior and will have the benefit of cost-effectiveness and established supply chains for any follow-on order.
PS. I would add here that the used Mirage Pakistan is going to buy from them will not happen until their Rafale are Mig deliveries are complete. So expect to see them sometime in late 2020 or 2021 in PAF.
8. Morocco:
Block 72 F-16s ordered.
9. Algeria:
Su-30s, Su-35s and Mig-35s already ordered and in service.
10. Zimbabwe:
Country is broke just like Argentina. They have 5-7 F-7s and doubtful they can afford to purchase a brand new fighter jet that would cost upwards of $40MM a piece just as upfront acquisition cost, not to mention ancillary support.
11. Iran:
While is makes sense given their current fleet of aircraft, not possible to sell them anything with UN sanctions in place. Even when there are no sanctions, Pakistan will never be able to sell them any weapons due to pressure from its Arab and US masters. We didn't even complete the oil pipeline when they were not under sanctions and it was hugely beneficial to us for economic development, so military weapons are out of question. Afraid this one will remain a pipe dream and they will rearm themselves with Russian jets.
12. Bangladesh:
Makes no sense for Pakistan to sell its most advanced weapon for a country that is not just a strategic partner of India, it is openly hostile towards Pakistan. Definitely against selling JF-17 to them, granted they might not want to buy it either in order to appease the Indians even it was offered.
13. Venezuela:
Similar situation as in Argentina, except much much worse.
14. Phillipines:
Their military is very close to the US, despite what their president says for public consumption. They have been offered F-16s on multiple occasions, but even buying 12 used F-16s and upgrading them with MLU was deemed too expensive by them. They would prefer to buy F-16s or Gripen over any other jet, but most likely will go down the F-50 route.
15. Iraq:
Would have been an interesting country, though seems unlikely given the two bulls in that huge potential market are the US and Russia. Both have sold F-16, F-50s and Su-25s. From the list so far, it has be most potential of a sale sometime down the line, but China nor Pakistan have any political clout in Iraq either. Still interesting to watch down the line.
What do you guys think and what other countries outside of Azerbaijan do you see as potential users?
Let me list a few countries that I believe we will never see operate the JF-17, but would love to be proven wrong in the future.
Starting off with Qatar, as the thread is focused on it.
1. Qatar:
As has been mentioned by others already, Qatar is a non-starter for buying JF-17. They have no need to introduce a Chinese armed aircraft in the mix of their all EU and US fleet that have complete interoperability and being ordered in large enough numbers, far beyond their need or current capacity to even operate (Expect American and European pilots flying these jets).
As for the political angle some pointed towards, Pakistan does not have any clout with any country, courtesy of its corrupt people and incompetent governments. Even if there was some measure of assurance Qatar was hoping to gain from being friendly with Pakistan, they way we capitulated under Saudi pressure to not attend the summit in Malaysia, shows that there is no influence that Qatar can hope to gain by somehow buying the JF-17.
2. China:
Our 'Iron Brother' was supposed to buy 150 of the JF-17 when the program was in its infancy. They had/have a huge number of obsolete aircraft that could easily be replaced by the JF-17, even with their production of J-10 going on at the same time. They were potentially the largest user outside of PAF itself, but what exactly happened to change that is anyone's guess.
3. Malaysia:
I have opined before too that it does not make any sense for Malaysia to buy the JF-17. The best option for them, both economically, politically and technologically is to buy more F-18C/Ds and upgrade them through an MLU. They love the aircraft and it has had stellar safety and performance in their service.
4. Indonesia:
For a brief time when they were under sanctions, Indonesia appeared as a good candidate as well, however, they just floated the idea of buying two squadrons of Block 70 F-16s. JF-17 brings nothing to the table.
5. Sri Lanka:
At one point, almost became the first export customer, and despite warm ties with Pakistan military, the pressure from India was too great for them to handle. I am sure mood has also soured in the country towards a Chinese product, given that country's predatory lending practices.
6. Argentina:
With a country that is broke as hell, even the prospects of it buying ANY fighter, are pretty much nil. They have decommissioned or grounded both the Mirages and A-4s. The sales of Mirage 2000s, Gripens, Mirage F-1, Kifr and the JF-17 & J-10 all came to naught due to monetary issues. Now they have selected the F-50 as their interim fighter, but will not hold my breath for this one.
7. Egypt:
On paper, Egypt seems like a great candidate for JF-17. It has/had similarly ageing aircraft in its inventory, including the Mirage 5s and Mig-21s/F-7s. How many of those aircraft as actually in active service is anyone's guess. They have since 2010 bought 20 F-16, 24 Rafales and 50 Mig-35s. That basically end any realistic chance of JF-17 being the replacement aircraft as the aforementioned aircraft are all superior and will have the benefit of cost-effectiveness and established supply chains for any follow-on order.
PS. I would add here that the used Mirage Pakistan is going to buy from them will not happen until their Rafale are Mig deliveries are complete. So expect to see them sometime in late 2020 or 2021 in PAF.
8. Morocco:
Block 72 F-16s ordered.
9. Algeria:
Su-30s, Su-35s and Mig-35s already ordered and in service.
10. Zimbabwe:
Country is broke just like Argentina. They have 5-7 F-7s and doubtful they can afford to purchase a brand new fighter jet that would cost upwards of $40MM a piece just as upfront acquisition cost, not to mention ancillary support.
11. Iran:
While is makes sense given their current fleet of aircraft, not possible to sell them anything with UN sanctions in place. Even when there are no sanctions, Pakistan will never be able to sell them any weapons due to pressure from its Arab and US masters. We didn't even complete the oil pipeline when they were not under sanctions and it was hugely beneficial to us for economic development, so military weapons are out of question. Afraid this one will remain a pipe dream and they will rearm themselves with Russian jets.
12. Bangladesh:
Makes no sense for Pakistan to sell its most advanced weapon for a country that is not just a strategic partner of India, it is openly hostile towards Pakistan. Definitely against selling JF-17 to them, granted they might not want to buy it either in order to appease the Indians even it was offered.
13. Venezuela:
Similar situation as in Argentina, except much much worse.
14. Phillipines:
Their military is very close to the US, despite what their president says for public consumption. They have been offered F-16s on multiple occasions, but even buying 12 used F-16s and upgrading them with MLU was deemed too expensive by them. They would prefer to buy F-16s or Gripen over any other jet, but most likely will go down the F-50 route.
15. Iraq:
Would have been an interesting country, though seems unlikely given the two bulls in that huge potential market are the US and Russia. Both have sold F-16, F-50s and Su-25s. From the list so far, it has be most potential of a sale sometime down the line, but China nor Pakistan have any political clout in Iraq either. Still interesting to watch down the line.
What do you guys think and what other countries outside of Azerbaijan do you see as potential users?
Pakistani Fighter
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New World
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why not offer JF-17 to Turkey and Russia with full ToT and give them rights to sell further to their respective customers..
Philip the Arab
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Russia, and Turkey don't want it. Russia can produce 100% Mig-29, and Su series.
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