First western journalist given full access to ISIS warns it's 'much more dangerous than we think'

[mike2000]

That is because your governments support these monarchies and dictatorships...and when a Muslim country begins to make progress western champions of the free world and their sazishain come along with a dose of this democracy.

LOOL Yes keep blaming others for all your ills.Is everybody in the middle east stupid/clueless/foolish/uneducated to allow themselves to be used by the 'Evil west' for decades? lool You should ask yourself that question. You should always blame yourselves/leaders in the first place ,since you cant expect other countries to come and help you develop your country, It has never happened beofore in the history of mankind and never will it happen. Every country who developed from a poor backward country to a prosperous/advanced/high tech one did so through their own hard work, perseverance, tolerance/will to learn from the best abroad and determination like South Korea. Not by indulging in foolish religious ideologies of whose version of islam is the best and engaging in geo political religious wars/competition of Sunnis vs Shiites etc.The earlier middle eastern countries seperate religion from politics the better for them and thats where they will start exploiting/harnessing their true potential. As karl marx rightly said if Religion is not well handled it can an Opium for the masses. He was indeed right on this one(though im not a fan of communsim). Sometimesi even think the world will be a better place without Religionto be honest.

I have said this before several times on here(especially to my Vietnamese friends): NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM OTHERS AND YOU WILL NEVER BE DISSAPOINTED.

 

[TheNoob]

And their solution is to bomb it (goin on as we speak), and then reconstruct it again.

What can you expect?
its profits and more profits!

 

[Selous]

LOOL Yes keep blaming others for all your ills.Is everybody in the middle east stupid/clueless/foolish/uneducated to allow themselves to be used by the 'Evil west' for decades? lool You should ask yourself that question. You should always blame yourselves/leaders in the first place ,since you cant expect other countries to come and helpyou develop, It has never happned beofre in the history of Mnakind and never will it happen. Every country who developed from a poor backward country to a prosperous/advanced/high tech one did so through their own hard work, perseverance, tolerance/will to learn from the best abroad and determination like South Korea. Not by indulging in foolish religious ideologiues of whose version of islam is the best and engaging in geo political relious war of Sunnis vs Shiites etc.The earlier middle eastern countries deperate religion from politics the better for them and thats where they will start exploiting/harnessing their true potential. As karl marx said if Religion is not well handled it can an Opium for the masses. He was indeed right on this one.(though im not a fan of communsim).

I have said this before several times on here(especially to my Vietnamese friends): NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM OTHERS AND YOU WILL NEVER BE DISSAPOINTED.

Stop acting like you guys did not mess our world up...you can not hand out statements like "As much as i will like to agree with you, but then again, almost all/majority muslim countries are hardly a bastion of real free democractic elections, first of which is Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries the center of Islam, which is still an absolute Monarchy(though they want freedom and democracy for the Syrian people) and will remain that way for decades to come." and not expect to be blamed. Yes I will agree that the kindling for the fire was present in our societies but it was the West that lit the flames and then fanned them and added more fuel. To deny this is to be a retard. Just because you guys had a terrible experience with your corrupt religions does not mean that you should apply the lessons you learned to the rest of the world. Islamic societies flourished in the past and will do so again just as soon as you guys stop meddling.

 

[acid rain]

Gaddafi, Saddam and the Taliban were legitimate rulers...ISIS...tell me what exactly is the West doing to "degrade and destroy" ISIS...hell they are even supplying those guys with weapons and training.

Hardly legitimate. .




But there's a contradiction here though.

There's two things.

One is they have gone to war with taliban. Gaddafi. Saddam, the wahhabi regine of SA and now isis in your muslim world. But otoh they have equally supported some evil regimes like the mujjis of Afghanistan, gaddafi, your military dictators, sunni against Shia and Shia against sunni when it suits them.

The goal I suspect is to spread anarchy in u our muslim world.

 

[TankMan]

As much as i will like to agree with you, but then again, almost all/majority muslim countries are hardly a bastion of real free democractic elections, first of which is Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries the center of Islam, which is still an absolute Monarchy(though they want freedom and democracy for the Syrian people) and will remain that way for decades to come. So ISIS isnt that far off from the truth on this one.

A monarchy is allowed in Islam but not encouraged (similar to the way democracy is not forbidden but not encouraged either) and tyranny - when a ruler becomes unjust and against the populations' wishes- is strictly forbidden and condemned in Islam.
Arrogance and Tyranny will not Remain Unpunished - The Religion of Islam - decent article, has good sources (from the Quran)

Believe me, ISIS is very far from the truth on this one. It doesn't matter what fat Arab sheikhs think, if the first Caliph was democratically elected, that takes precedence over some misguided and politically-influenced scholars' opinions.

 

[dray]

Don't worry, I am sure they will export the finished product once they have manufactured it from the imported raw materials.

ISIS is relying on lone wolves types of attacks. It only takes one idiot to buy a gun illegally and start shooting and then claim he is part of ISIS. Look at what happened in France few days ago. One guy used knives the other ran down people with a car.

Its greatest strength is that its an open club. All you have to do is to pledge allegiance to the "Caliph" and voila.. you're in. Think of the many Muslims in India who for various social reasons are sitting at borderline nutcase.

Yes, ISIS can send a few terrorists here, or they can radicalize a few nutcases inside India to do some acts of terror, but these things are being attempted for a long time now by different organizations including Al-Qaeda with very limited success, what significantly extra ISIS can do to destabilize India? We also have a few advantages over many other countries, for example, we do not have a gun culture, it is actually very hard for a common guy to get a good gun. We do not have a 'jihad' culture, some Muslims might get radicalized in their thinking, but in most cases our moderate society compels them to remain passive radicals, that's why we have so less participation in terror modules compared to the size of the population. Our internal security has also improved a lot in last decade.

It's not that we will be terrorist-proof, but it won't become uncontrollable either.
Btw, @Oscar people aren't becoming terrorists because of any social reasons or injustice or poverty, etc. In fact, most of them are well-educated and from well-to-do families if we take the case of India.

 

[mike2000]

Stop acting like you guys did not mess our world up...you can not hand out statements like "As much as i will like to agree with you, but then again, almost all/majority muslim countries are hardly a bastion of real free democractic elections, first of which is Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries the center of Islam, which is still an absolute Monarchy(though they want freedom and democracy for the Syrian people) and will remain that way for decades to come." and not expect to be blamed. Yes I will agree that the kindling for the fire was present in our societies but it was the West that lit the flames and then fanned them and added more fuel. To deny this is to be a retard. Just because you guys had a terrible experience with your corrupt religions does not mean that you should apply the lessons you learned to the rest of the world. Islamic societies flourished in the past and will do so again just as soon as you guys stop meddling.

Jesus......have you even been reading my posts on here bro? Where have i said our governments(not me.lol) never/didnt messed up? Of course we did carry out some foolish policies in the region, as i mentioned several countless times on here. What im trying to point out is that you putting all the blame on the 'evil west' is totally wrong. Every country that fails in achieveing what they ought to achive to their true potential have only themselves and their leaders to blame first and foremost, not foreign powers(who of course are always after their own interests primarily, which i think its normal, since every country thinks of themselves first and foremost). So you cant blame others for all your ills. Moreover as i said earlier, Sunnis and Shiites hate each other soooo much that it makes Israel/christians looks like Angels towards in their eyes, especially the Sunnis radicals who consider their own muslim brothers as devil/heretics(pretty harsh words i must say). W e dont even need to do much at all to fan the flames between them, they are already doing it themselves without our help. Afterall, we arent the ones who labeled Shiites as 'DEVILS' nor are we the ones who tell them to kill/behead their own muslim shia brothers. These people need a serious reality check among themsleves, before they start blaming others. Just as a simple example i will ask you one simple question: Do you think Alqaeda/ISIS or nay other sunni terrorists/extremist groups has/will ever go on to support Hezbollah when/if Israel attacks Hezbollah like last time?lol

As far as i know i never heard Al Qaeda or any of them utter one single word in support of Hezbollah the 'heretic/develish group'. or any tioehr shais group in their fight against Israel. As one western journalist who met an Qaeda recruiter in Yemen said, the Al Qaeda recruiter described the Shiites as “dogs and a thorn in the throat of Islam from the beginning of time.” , So there you go. These guys are simply too divided/have too much hatred against each other, they dont even need our help again for that bro.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/26haykel.html?_r=1&

The vicious schism between Sunni and Shia has been poisoning Islam for 1,400 years - and it's getting worse - Middle East - World - The Independent

 

[Selous]

Does that mean Islamic State has got soft approach towards people of the book?

Yes they are really soft on the non-muslims and hard on the Muslims...true sign of the Khawarij.

 

[Gunsnroses]

And someone tell these morons that Islam agrees with democracy too! The first caliph, Hazrat Abu Bakr, was ELECTED as a leader by the people of Makkah. And there's absolutely No, Zero, Nil basis in any Islamic text that forbids electing your leader (obviously you can't worship him, but otherwise its all good).

Idiotic Mullahs spreading idiocy for political reasons should not be taken seriously.

Not so years back sermons on loudspeakers using mics were bidah and haram.
They spread stupidity and people kill each other on that basis. We need to take them seriously.

That is because your governments support these monarchies and dictatorships...and when a Muslim country begins to make progress western champions of the free world and their sazishain come along with a dose of this democracy.

When you spread your legs wide open, who is not going to accept the open invitation.
If we blame west, west just takes the opportunity and act accordingly. Not fair, but fair on their part.

 

[TankMan]

Not so years back sermons on loudspeakers using mics were bidah and haram.
They spread stupidity and people kill each other on that basis. We need to take them serious.



When you spread your legs wide open, who is not going to accept the open invitation.
If we blame west, west just takes the opportunity and act accordingly. Not fair, but fair on their part.

They should be taken as a problem, I agree. What I meant to say is that their assertions shouldn't be taken as the word of God, because most of them are clearly not.
The printing press used to be considered bidah too, the same printing press used to print copies of the Holy Qur'an nowadays. Had they not opposed it back then, Muslim countries probably wouldn't be as far behind as we are now.
Its a sad state of affairs.

And yes, you're right about the west. Of course, they aren't angels and they did do a lot. But we let them do it, we couldn't mount a proper resistance. They'd be stupid to not take advantage of all the opportunities some greedy and/or retarded people ended up giving them.

 

[Gunsnroses]

They should be taken as a problem, I agree. What I meant to say is that their assertions shouldn't be taken as the word of God, because most of them are clearly not.
The printing press used to be considered bidah too, the same printing press used to print copies of the Holy Qur'an nowadays. Had they not opposed it back then, Muslim countries probably wouldn't be as far behind as we are now.
Its a sad state of affairs.

And yes, you're right about the west. Of course, they aren't angels and they did do a lot. But we let them do it, we couldn't mount a proper resistance. They'd be stupid to not take advantage of all the opportunities some greedy and/or retarded people ended up giving them.

And this is exactly my point. The only difference is word of God is word of Mullah nowadays, unfortunately. Sadly, most of the problems, killings, atrocities are justified by Mullah-God (nauzubillah).

 

[Selous]

A monarchy is allowed in Islam but not encouraged (similar to the way democracy is not forbidden but not encouraged either) and tyranny - when a ruler becomes unjust and against the populations' wishes- is strictly forbidden and condemned in Islam.
Arrogance and Tyranny will not Remain Unpunished - The Religion of Islam - decent article, has good sources (from the Quran)

Believe me, ISIS is very far from the truth on this one. It doesn't matter what fat Arab sheikhs think, if the first Caliph was democratically elected, that takes precedence over some misguided and politically-influenced scholars' opinions.

A while back when I was in Mauritius I found this poster (in French but you can get the gist of it) that was saying the Voting is Haram, Kufr and Shirk. The line at the bottom says don't vote for Mans laws. I could not believe my eyes. Some people have insane views

everywhere.

 

[TankMan]

A while back when I was in Mauritius I found this poster (in French but you can get the gist of it) that was saying the Voting is Haram, Kufr and Shirk. The line at the bottom says don't vote for Mans laws. I could not believe my eyes. Some people have insane viewsView attachment 178401 everywhere.

Yeah, that's really disturbing. The argument most frequently used against democracy by these people is that democracy makes people a legislator, i.e on the level of God. What they fail to realize is that, by that logic, its the same with every other system of government, including Khilafat - having a leader doesn't mean you worship him.

As Muslims, it is our responsibility to vote for someone who we believe will uphold Islamic values - if we don't vote, what's there to stop people from throwing Islamic values out the window? The argument they use against voting is actually an argument for voting. The only restrictions placed by Islam are:
a) Don't worship your leader and b) Don't obey him if he disobeys Allah.
Otherwise, there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing your leaders. Nothing wrong with a parliament either - It's basically a Majlis-e-Shura.

And if voting is shirk, then Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Ali and all of the Prophet's companions were guilty of it - Astaghfirullah, extremely flawed logic being used there.

Relevant speech - he makes some important points about the difference between philosophical democracy and practical democracy, along with a good analysis about Muslims wanting to 'please the west' etc:

 

[Desert Fox]

Like gaddafi, saddam, taliban, Islamic state??

Saddam was a secular gov.t, so too was Gaddafi. Libya was one of the wealthiest African countries under Gaddafi and Iraq also had some of its best years under Saddam. You really can't compare them to Islamist extremist movements.

 

[acid rain]

Saddam was a secular gov.t, so too was Gaddafi. Libya was one of the wealthiest African countries under Gaddafi and Iraq also had some of its best years under Saddam. You really can't compare them to Islamist extremist movements.

Secular and oil wealth isn't the issue here - China is pretty wealthy too but is their govt legitimate? It's a single party and no chinese has a say in anything? Same goes for saddam gaddafi Kim Jong clan idi amin castro etc etc.


As for the Co relation with islam - I was answering a poster claiming the US taking down legitamate govts in the muslim world - they took down gaddafi saddam and taliban - which of them was legitimate?