First Project-15B Bangalore-class DDG hull : satellite pics

[Omega007]

> doubling the rear VLUs > ( 16 (=2x8) instead of 1x8 ) twice


It's not like all this stuff is cheap.... or poor quality as is. Consider what you had before: just the 3 P15s and the Rajput/Kashin ships providing AAW, and frigates with barely any SAMs.

Yes,the P 15A is quite an improvement over what we had before,there is no denying in that.But I didn't utter a single word on P 15A!!My complains are against the B models because I,as many other Indian members had expected it to sport more drastic improvements above the As.That's all.

 

[Dillinger]

Right,,our designs are a bit behind.
I was kinda disappointed with kolkata class...........externally and internally(that stupidity of 32 missiles in storage)

But its all good considering what we had before

There are no internal missiles in storage. Me, @Capt.Popeye and @Penguin have provided the relevant reasons why.

32 LR-SAM is still a good count, as long as their is a provision for a long range L-band ASR/VSR. And granted that the performance parameters of the LR-SAM concerned are adequate, at least we still do not have specific info on this with some quantum of contradictions present.

 

[he-man]

There are no internal missile in storage. Me, @Capt.Popeye and @Penguin have provided the relevant reasons why.

32 LR-SAM is still a good count, as long as their is a provision for a long range L-band ASR/VSR. And granted that the performance parameters of the LR-SAM concerned are adequate, at least we still do not have specific info on this with some quantum of contradictions present.

U mean to say we have just 32 cell vls??
Or 32 barak-8 with additional brahmos??

I mean please tell the final breakup,,i am sorry i was of different opinion

 

[Penguin]

Hey guys, got an idea while thinking about the P 15B class. The P 15 A and P 15B are virtually identical right?
Even VSR is now shown to be the same. So I kinda looked at the pic and came to a pretty surprising conclusion.

If you guys see the first two cavities they look like the 8 cell Brahmos UVLM module right and just behind that a bigger cavity for the LR SAM? Then behind that we see the crane and the cavity for the mast and behind that two smaller cavities for LRSAM. The same arrangement is found in the below picture of INS Kolkata.

The tender said 2 X 8 CELL BRAHMOS UVLM
2 X 16 CELL LRSAM
2 X 8 CELL LRSAM

By dimensions the Barak 8 VLS is smaller than the Brahmos UVLM. So my guess is that the longer cavity behind second Brahmos cell is for the 2 X 16 Barak 8 and the two smaller ones near the hangar are the 2 X 8 cell Barak 8. Thus the P 15B has 48 LRSAM.

Hence we can also assume that because the P 15B is almost identical to P 15A in armament and the position of the VLS cells with respect to one another is same, can the P 15A also be having 48 Barak 8 LRSAM in it's inventory?

The rear set appears similar in footprint to the Barak 1s on P15, which would suggest 8 cells per VLU
I'm not so sure there is a difference in area taken up the front and rear VLUs for LRSAM.

I came across another aereal shot, and the person posting that suggested the possibility of 4 x 12.
In any case, that picture also suggests very little difference in area needed for front and rear SAM-VLU

Kolkata Class Destroyers Update - Page 11

Personally, I feel it is 4x8.

 

[Dillinger]

U mean to say we have just 32 cell vls??
Or 32 barak-8 with additional brahmos??

I mean please tell the final breakup,,i am sorry i was of different opinion

16 cells of for Bmos or any other AShMs.

2*8 cells on the fore-deck for 16 cells of LR-SAM

and 2*8 cells above the hangar for 16 more cells of LR-SAM

Thus 48 cells in total, 16 for AShMs and 32 cells for LR-SAM.

The P-15B will have 16 cells for AShMs and 48 cells for LR-SAM.

Bare in mind that 16 more cells can retrofitted on to the P-15A and the 15B if required bringing the number of cells to 48 and 64 for the LR-SAM respectively (the no. of cells for the AShMs will remain the same in either scenario on both the ships).

 

[he-man]

16 cells of for Bmos or any other AShMs.

2*8 cells on the fore-deck for 16 cells of LR-SAM

and 2*8 cells above the hangar for 16 more cells of LR-SAM

Thus 48 cells in total, 16 for AShMs and 32 cells for LR-SAM.

The P-15B will have 16 cells for AShMs and 48 cells for LR-SAM.

Bare in mind that 16 more cells can retrofitted on to the P-15A and the 15B if required bringing the number of cells to 48 and 64 for the LR-SAM respectively (the no. of cells for the AShMs will remain the same in either scenario on both the ships).

good enough..............

 

[Penguin]

U mean to say we have just 32 cell vls??
Or 32 barak-8 with additional brahmos??

I mean please tell the final breakup,,i am sorry i was of different opinion

THe discussion is focussed on the number of Barak-8 surface to air missiles BESIDES the Brahmos antiship/landattack missiles (which use a different type of vertical launcher)

 

[he-man]

THe discussion is focussed on the number of Barak-8 surface to air missiles BESIDES the Brahmos antiship/landattack missiles (which use a different type of vertical launcher)

I don't have ur level of knowledge but even i knew that

 

[Penguin]

2 things to ask

1> So P 15B has 48 LRSAM 16 X 2 and 16 x 1 ?

2> How can you say IN has no AAW? It has Shtil 1s in it's ship with 32 KM range, Barak 8s with 70km range, the collective numbers in a Carrier Group is very high!

1 > it is still all speculation.
2> nit picking. the generation of ships P15A/B will replace are far less capable. I've mentioned Rajput class and Delhi class because untill the advent of Talwars and P17s (which serve to replace Nilgiri's and eventually P16 and P16A) those were the main/only AAW missile assets. The jump in capability is huge.

 

[Dillinger]

@Penguin @he-man There is no confusion in the number of LR-SAM cells actually present on the 15A.

Deducing the number is quite easy.

We know that each VLU unit of the Brak-8 has 8 cells, this is the standard arrangement so far, although provisions exist for creating contiguous VLU cell farms of greater number.

Each such VLU unit of 8 cells has 2 rows of 4 cells each with a divider in between, said divider can be clearly seen in the above picture.

Open the above picture in a new tab, or view it in its original size. The divider between the two rows of 4 cells present in each VLU unit is clearly visible.

There are 4 VLU units in total for the LR-SAM. Each VLU unit has 2 rows of 4 cells each with the divider in between.

 

[spectribution]

1 > it is still all speculation.
2> nit picking. the generation of ships P15A/B will replace are far less capable. I've mentioned Rajput class and Delhi class because untill the advent of Talwars and P17s (which serve to replace Nilgiri's and eventually P16 and P16A) those were the main/only AAW missile assets. The jump in capability is huge.

But bro I think the rear vls is 16 but forward is 32. The trench is quite wide! A tender delivered that recently 2013 end can't be a hoax, no PKS, AS, etc....

Barak 1 is better than S 125 of Rajput class. Delhi class shtil 1 was 24 km but fairly good in AAW. I mean keep in mind, PN has SAMs only of upto 14 - 18 KM. The Rajput and Delhi class were designed with the PN as the primary enemy.

Now PLAN has become hefty. Their Type 055 will have between 96 - 112 VLS and are cruisers. Possibly they will buy P 800 from Russia , the inferior cousin of Brahmos. Barak 8 is the only insurance against it!

It's a necessity not a luxury!

 

[Omega007]

There is no doubt that P 15A Kolkata is an impressive design considering the fact that its design was finalised a decade ago.
But the P 15B,if the current design is kept,then it would leave more to be desired.For a ship of its size and the timeframe,the missile load isn't that great,especially due to the apparent lack of a SRSAM based CIWS.

 

[spectribution]

There is no doubt that P 15A Kolkata is an impressive design considering the fact that its design was finalised a decade ago.
But the P 15B,if the current design is kept,then it would leave more to be desired.For a ship of its size and the timeframe,the missile load isn't that great,especially due to the apparent lack of a SRSAM based CIWS.

French Maitri SR SAM is on the runway but India has no $$$ to fund them. The French want to use it as offset for Rafale but by doing so they can get away with offset obligation without sharing technology. Arms deals are very murky!



BTW CIWS will remain 4 X AK 630. IN will however later on replace AK 630 with a VLS based SR SAM, I hope it will be Maitri, something we can build on and call our own like the JV with Barak 8.

 

[Dillinger]

There is no doubt that P 15A Kolkata is an impressive design considering the fact that its design was finalised a decade ago.
But the P 15B,if the current design is kept,then it would leave more to be desired.For a ship of its size and the timeframe,the missile load isn't that great,especially due to the apparent lack of a SRSAM based CIWS.

The missile count is not the real issue, 32 or 48 LR-SAM are still adequate, the sensor suite is the issue, the RAWL-02 simply cannot operate into the next decade.

 

[he-man]

But bro I think the rear vls is 16 but forward is 32. The trench is quite wide! A tender delivered that recently 2013 end can't be a hoax, no PKS, AS, etc....

Barak 1 is better than S 125 of Rajput class. Delhi class shtil 1 was 24 km but fairly good in AAW. I mean keep in mind, PN has SAMs only of upto 14 - 18 KM. The Rajput and Delhi class were designed with the PN as the primary enemy.

Now PLAN has become hefty. Their Type 055 will have between 96 - 112 VLS and are cruisers. Possibly they will buy P 800 from Russia , the inferior cousin of Brahmos. Barak 8 is the only insurance against it!

It's a necessity not a luxury!

type 055 is a different league from kolkata.................